Smash Balls = New Play Style, Second Tourney Ruling?

[Libomasus]

I thought we were proving that Smash Balls are broken, but yeah they're pretty **** random too. Not to mention theres no reason to keep them in.

 

[Itakio]

fr0st2k - The smash ball can appear at any time, including when you aren't there to get it (i.e. when you're sent flying). There won't always be something you can do to prevent your opponent from getting the smash ball.

Edit- Nevermind, ShortAssasin said it first. XP

 

[NES n00b]

prove it.

i can say " there is still luck involved in swinging marths sword and hopefully hitting someone.

what makes getting the smashball luck? It follows rules. Just like when you hit a character a certain percentage, the smash ball flies in different directions after being hit.

It spawns at random times, at random places, it randomly goes different directions, when hit, goes another random way. How is it not random?

Futhermore, why would you even want them on? What benefit do you get from leaving them on? So you can chase randomly floating balls or try to hit them? How deep? >_< (and please don't give me that bait the opponent using smash ball arguement, just no)

 

[Foxy]

Smashballs are a great aspect of the game and should be used or have a seperate category.

BUT

1. No way to limit spawn times
2. Creates stalling matches
3. Falco's = free kills

 

[fr0st2k]

The fact that it spawns in a random location at a random time? It would've been a lot more viable if it spawned at a set location at a set time interval (and wasn't completely broken, but that's a different topic).

Items that spawn randomly reward you for your location on the stage, which you may or may not have earned. That's why items in general are bad for competative play. If they spawned in specific locations like in other fighting games then stratagies could be built around them, but as they are now they are really just giving a player a completely random bonus during a match.

Yes .. but the time it takes to break is more than it takes to get back on the edge. Not only that .. but if the other playing is getting the smash ball, then he isnt edge guarding.

Secondly, once it gets hit, it flies away. Giving the opponent who was further from it, a fairer chance of obtaining it.

Thirdly, i never once said that playing with smash balls on would be the same strategy as playing with all items off. PArt of the appeal of this type of gameplay could be something like : Playing the avoidance game until the ball appears. Going on the offensive could be a risky move in this ruleset.

The smash ball HAS different properties than other items. To flat out say that it would never work is just a blantant display of your ignorance..

 

[fr0st2k]

has anybody mentioned about how you can break the smash ball with projectiles?

let's not give speedy projectile characters an even bigger advantage than they already have now.

yuna has already "proved" to us that marth is too cheap when it comes to obtaining smash balls. and marth is as close ranges as you can get.

So looks like your facts are clashing. guess they arent facts then huh?

 

[Fev]

Adding smash balls to tournies is like adding hammers.

Been playing Brawl for two weeks and the idea of having smash balls on in competitive play seems ridculus.

 

[MookieRah]

From what I've seen the general consensus between all the competitive players who have been playing Brawl are vehemently opposed to having smash balls on in a tournament setting. I haven't played it yet myself, but honestly... they are not for competitive play. This has been debated to death, and so far the main reason people want them in is because it fulfills their "ideal" of having everything in Brawl in the tournament scene. That is not NOWHERE near reason enough to have them be a part of the tournament scene.

 

[GhostAnime]

yuna has already "proved" to us that marth is too cheap when it comes to obtaining smash balls. and marth is as close ranges as you can get.

you haven't done anything but made my argument even better. now range AND speed will surely be higher up on the tier list.

and of course yuna proved it. she has the game. ;\

The smash ball HAS different properties than other items.

it's not all that different. like i said, it's just a starman in a floating, breakable crate. what gives it the right to come in tourney play?

 

[TheRooster]

has anybody mentioned about how you can break the smash ball with projectiles?

let's not give speedy projectile characters an even bigger advantage than they already have now.

Its not that easy.

I've seen Ganon hit the smashball with a charged forward smash ang get nothing, then lucas comes in and steals it with a light jab.

There is a certain amount of damage it has to recieve in order to be obtained (i think somewhere around 40%.)

so good luck with that 1% blaster

oh yeah and the flight pattern of that thing is so awkward that youd have a hard time shooting it through the fight thats already taking place.

...but its not impossible. I once got the smashball by throwing warios bike at it.
Very satisfying.

 

[NES n00b]

it's not all that different. like i said, it's just a starman in a floating, breakable crate. what gives it the right to come in tourney play?

Because not only do floating multicolor balls that appear at most of intervals of 30 seconds from the last time they were used scream balance, but they are also part of the moveset because they have unique and pretty animations. I mean, Mario shooting a fireball thing, how could that not be his moveset? Also, you are a tourney*** and/or too close minded to understand the glory of the out of the box way of thinking of how the mechanics of smash balls work. For example, I can airdodge Marth's FS. NO WAI!!!!!!11!11!

 

[GhostAnime]

if it's a set damage, then watch projectile players strike it the last minute.

but they are also part of the moveset because they have unique and pretty animations

this doesn't change anything.

also, using ad hominems will only make you look like an idiot.

 

[ShortAssassin]

Ghost....he was being sarcastic.

 

[fr0st2k]

ok guys .. i give up on the smash community. Feel free to play melee 2.0, im sure youre gonna love it.

 

[NES n00b]

if it's a set damage, then watch projectile players strike it the last minute.



this doesn't change anything.

also, using ad hominems will only make you look like an idiot.

I was being sarcastic. -.-

I was making fun of people for thinking unique animations for each character and their affect meant it was part of a character's moveset. (Hint it is not)

Edit: LOL, you can't play anything similar to how Melee was!!!! It would just be a Melee 2.0. All stages, all items on high, everyone besides Fox, no time limit, and no glitches. GO!!!!

 

[Xengri]

Why do people skip over my post


Assuming that smash balls are infact, compltely based on skill and barly any luck (which is not ture, but for the sack of the argument)

They are still way to unbalanced.
People complained about how very few characters where used in Melee tournaments , it’d be even worse in Brawl if smash balls were on.

As for smash balls, this concept is new to smash so we can’t fall back on prier smash knowledge. However, just look at what they do to balance.

I’m not going to use Marth since, he’s over used as a example but, others are just as bad as him.

The space animals have a final smash just as overpowered as Marth, basically a free stock.

Now for characters like Jiggly that lack good final smashes, they’d be put at a severe disadvantage when up against a space animal.

When a smash ball appears, the Jiggly player has basically nothing to gain by getting it, yet he has to fight for it anyway since, if he doesn’t get it, that’s basically one of his stocks.
Remember, that’s 3 characters that have that final smash. Do we really want to put characters such as jiggly and Lucario in such a unfair position against such a large portion of the roster?

Quoted for emphasis.

And I just used a small example.
Here’s a quick list.

Pretty much Free stock Final smashes.
Marth
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Sheik
Zelda
Sonic

Bad in comparison to the others

Jigglypuff
Lucario
Ness
Lucas
Peach



It’s just unfair.
Sure you can try to keep your opponent from getting the Smash ball (provided luck wasn’t on his side) but, if you have a horrible final smash then you gain nothing….

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yes .. but the time it takes to break is more than it takes to get back on the edge. Not only that .. but if the other playing is getting the smash ball, then he isnt edge guarding.

It takes no more than three hits. A character can do that in two jumps. It's not that hard to break. Why bother trying to edgeguard when you can stock up on a OHKO item to use latter?

Secondly, once it gets hit, it flies away. Giving the opponent who was further from it, a fairer chance of obtaining it.

False. It flies in a random direction, which could just as easily mean that it becomes even harder for the second person to get it, because it could just fly away from them.

Thirdly, i never once said that playing with smash balls on would be the same strategy as playing with all items off. Part of the appeal of this type of gameplay could be something like : Playing the avoidance game until the ball appears. Going on the offensive could be a risky move in this ruleset.

You mean camping until a smash ball pops up, and then frantically trying to get the smash ball so you can kill your opponent, and then camping again? Isn't that exactly what we're trying to avoid?

The smash ball HAS different properties than other items. To flat out say that it would never work is just a blantant display of your ignorance..

So you're calling me ignorant because I don't want a completely random, match altering item in competative play? So you're saying I'm dumb for reasoning that the smash ball is actually very much like a "customized hammer" (quote Sakurai himself). The smash ball is not like a super move, which is what I think you're confusing it with. Supers have requirements that can be fulfiled throuhgout the match and planned on. In Naruto, you charge chakra. In Guilty Gear, you build your tension guage. In smash, you wait for an item to appear completely randomly and hope that your opponent is not in a situation that makes it easier for him to get it?

 

[GhostAnime]

that was sarcasm?

man, i've seen so many casuals actually act like that so i can't really tell (plus, i don't know him personally..).

Feel free to play melee 2.0,

it's completely different from melee even without the smash balls.

 

[ShortAssassin]

ok guys .. i give up on the smash community. Feel free to play melee 2.0, im sure youre gonna love it.

No one is in any way saying Brawl is Melee 2.0. Smash Balls are just a bad idea for competitive play.

 

[flyinfilipino]

ok guys .. i give up on the smash community. Feel free to play melee 2.0, im sure youre gonna love it.

Not Melee 2.0 dood, Smash 3.0. Yeah, it'll be fun.

 

[Fev]

ok guys .. i give up on the smash community. Feel free to play melee 2.0, im sure youre gonna love it.

Stop being stubborn and grow up. The mechanics of the game have vastly changed. If you were an expert in melee, don't expect to be an expect in Brawl, it's a totally different feel.

 

[MookieRah]

ok guys .. i give up on the smash community. Feel free to play melee 2.0, im sure youre gonna love it.

Congrats on making some pretty dumb assumptions there, son. Just because we don't agree with having smash balls turned on, it doesn't mean we are making this game melee 2.0. If you are too juvenile as to shrug everything off as the competitive community morphing Brawl into melee then you shouldn't have participated in this debate in the first place.

 

[NES n00b]

Not Melee 2.0 dood, Smash 3.0. Yeah, it'll be fun.

Brawl is not a Smash 3.0 you tourney***. It is a new entry in the series and not just a sequel. <_< >_>

So. . . . I am more interested in why people WANT them in the first place.

 

[TheRooster]

If you were an expert in melee, don't expect to be an expect in Brawl, it's a totally different feel.

THANK YOU!

finally-- someone agrees with me.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Brawl is not a Smash 3.0 you tourney***. It is a new entry in the series and not just a sequel. <_< >_>

So. . . . I am more interested in why people WANT them in the first place.

Because they balance the game, DUH!

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^And I'm intrested in why it took 7 pages of arguing to get fr0st2k to leave.

 

[MamaLuigi]

Smash Balls should never be banned. Besides, if one does high damage and you get K.O'ed, then why should you worry? There's two ways that FS's are good. One is that if you doge and someone else gets hit (in this case using them like a substitution) the enemy still gets the point, but you don't suffer from embarrasment! 2. Is that when FS's are done, there done! No more Smash Ball grabbing for them, now is there?

 

[Fev]

THANK YOU!

finally-- someone agrees with me.

Most welcome sir =)

 

[MookieRah]

So. . . . I am more interested in why people WANT them in the first place.

Sadly it's not a very interesting reason. 99.99999% of the reason is people just holding on to this conceptual fallacy of "smash purism," and they want the tournament scene to include as much stuff from the game on the basis that it is what Sakurai would have wanted.

 

[GhostAnime]

One is that if you doge and someone else gets hit (in this case using them like a substitution)

.. we're not talking about a ffa setting.

perhaps you should just learn what tourney play is before making judgments about it.

2. Is that when FS's are done, there done! No more Smash Ball grabbing for them, now is there?

if this is a sarcastic post, i once again fell for it.

 

[NES n00b]

Sadly it's not a very interesting reason. 99.99999% of the reason is people just holding on to this conceptual fallacy of "smash purism," and they want the tournament scene to include as much stuff from the game on the basis that it is what Sakurai would have wanted.

Ayorra think that Sakurai wanted no combos. [/kennedy] Why else would he nerf combos in all the smash series three times in a row? Obviously glitches.

I got to admit, that is just dumb. >_< I don't want some old japanese dude telling me how to play my Brawlz.

Edit: I think it wasn't sarcastic. >_>

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sadly it's not a very interesting reason. 99.99999% of the reason is people just holding on to this conceptual fallacy of "smash purism," and they want the tournament scene to include as much stuff from the game on the basis that it is what Sakurai would have wanted.

I guess they don't realize that Sakurai gave us the option to turn things we don't want off in order to...turn things we don't want off.

 

[brawlmaniac]

I would support this idea only if there would be basically two tournaments. One could be the regular tournament style-stock with no items, and the other kind would be the smash ball tournament as you suggested. The smash ball one would have the same rules as the regular tournament except that you could use smash balls that appear. I do think it takes skill to bash open a smash ball and utilize it or even defend against it. There are just some kinds of final smashes like marth's, which is basically a one hit ko. I've heard that if you dodge it however, he will keep going past you and off the ledge to his death. People will have to experiment with all these final smashes and see if some can be avoided. I don't see any problem with having two tournaments though. Even for people who don't like final smashes; they can just stick with their regular tournament. The people who do like final smashes could take part in the smash ball tournaments. Let me say it again: I see no problem with having two separate tournaments. The only problem I see is having all regular tournaments utilizing the smash ball.

 

[ShortAssassin]

The problem with two separate tournaments is that no one will attend that kind that has Smash Balls on. Competitive players won't for the various reasons given in this thread, and the casuals will want the rest of the items turned on.

 

[MookieRah]

The problem with two separate tournaments is that no one will attend that kind that has Smash Balls on. Competitive players won't for the various reasons given in this thread, and the casuals will want the rest of the items turned on.

Nah, smashball tournaments could be a gimmick tournament, much like low-tier tournaments were prevalent with Melee.

 

[GhostAnime]

not to mention that most casuals could give a **** about tournaments in the first place.

 

[MookieRah]

not to mention that most casuals could give a **** about tournaments in the first place.

Thusly the irony of the situation. Casual players making arguments about tournaments they plan on NOT attending in the first place. Seriously, competitive players don't try to dictate how casuals play... it really upsets me that they (casual players) feel a need to tell us how to.

 

[JJJ.Brawler]

I don't go to tournaments, bu if I did, I would want there to Smash Balls on, but nothing else. the other items are dumb, unless you actually want to have fun.

Smash Balls should be considered a strong attack, not an item. Because they act more like an attack then they do an item.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't go to tournaments, bu if I did, I would want there to Smash Balls on, but nothing else. the other items are dumb, unless you actually want to have fun.

Smash Balls should be considered a strong attack, not an item. Because they act more like an attack then they do an item.

You mean Final Smashes act more like attacks than items.

 

[ShortAssassin]

I don't go to tournaments, bu if I did, I would want there to Smash Balls on, but nothing else. the other items are dumb, unless you actually want to have fun.

Smash Balls should be considered a strong attack, not an item. Because they act more like an attack then they do an item.

Thusly the irony of the situation. Casual players making arguments about tournaments they plan on NOT attending in the first place. Seriously, competitive players don't try to dictate how casuals play... it really upsets me that they (casual players) feel a need to tell us how to.

Lol. What an ideal post.