Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Samochan]

How would covering his ears make him absolutely deaf? >_> Earplugs and things only reduce noise, but simple hands don't cut it. It won't grant him immunity lol.

And knock off knocks off held item (weapons, berries, boosters etc.), in this case dedede's held item is his hammer, he always helds it. <_< Farfetch's leek is only there graphically, aka farfetch'd doesn't actually have any items on default (you can find farfetch'd with sticks in the wild tho) but you can still knock off stick and thick bone if you equip em. I don't see why ddd would be immune to knock off for some bizarre reason. >_>

 

[Monkey Wrench]

I say Dedede's mask could be his hold item, not his hammer. After all, pokemon can hold scarves, ribbons, belts, and other items that are not actually held in their hand, so it seems fair to let Dedede's mask count as his one "held item" to be knocked off.

 

[Samochan]

Um, dedede wears a mask fulltime now? <_> Isn't hammer his most used item anyway? And as such, something he actually uses for something like the pokemons do. And mask is not something you hold, you wear a mask. >_> Dedede's hold item is certainly his hammer.

Besides if he has many hold items, why couldn't jiggs like, direct the attack to whatever jiggs want's to knock off? >_> His hammer is not immune to knock off and most definitely a held item, no matter if it's his weapon too.

 

[PowerBomb]

Knock Off doesn't get rid of Marowak's bone; he can still use Bonemerang.

...or D3 can just pick his hammer up again

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@ PowerBomb: You're talking about Thick Club.

If Jiggs can use her moves, Knock Off, Reflect, Sing, and Rollout are all she really needs.

Wish can heal off damage. Flamethrower for some fried duck.

-Terywj

 

[Ray_Kalm]

We'll be getting to round 6 soon, it seems.

 

[REL38]

Knock Off doesn't get rid of Marowak's bone; he can still use Bonemerang.

...or D3 can just pick his hammer up again

Exactly

Besides Samo, Knock Off only affects weapons and the like that enemies don't normally start out with.

D3 always starts out with his hammer in Kirby games.
As in, it doesn't affect default weaponry.

Edit:
I thought D3 still had his Wheelie Bike?

 

[the king of murder]

^This is why Knock Off is useless. Also Jiggs doesnt learn Thief so there is no way she is able to steal the hammer and leave D3 defenseless. And if he gets possessed by Dark Matter he doesnt even need his hammer to fight her.


Jiggs has bad states. She has to approach D3 to actually use effective attack against him(Toxic and Seismic Toss). She is very slow and has weak defensive states so this could be a problem for her. Jiggs needs some time to use Perish Song and in this time D3 can already land a fatal blow to her(2HKO). Flamethrower and all the other stuff is not effectiv since she has weak (Sp.)Attack states.

 

[PowerBomb]

@ PowerBomb: You're talking about Thick Club.

If Jiggs can use her moves, Knock Off, Reflect, Sing, and Rollout are all she really needs.

Wish can heal off damage. Flamethrower for some fried duck.

-Terywj

Not Thick Club, the bone he's holding in his animation. If Gamefreak can make Cherrim, Ditto, and whatever other Pokemon with form changing moves/effects change at will, why not for Marowak? It would be really quite simple.

Anyway, my point still stands: If Marowak lost the bone he's shown to be wielding, Bonemerang would fail. As you can see, in-game, it doesn't, even if he isn't holding the item 'Thick Club'.

 

[IsmaR]

Also Jiggs doesnt learn Thief so there is no way she is able to steal the hammer and leave D3 defenseless.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Covet_(move)

And if he gets possessed by Dark Matter he doesnt even need his hammer to fight her.

How does that abide the no outside assistance rule?

Jiggs has bad states. She has to approach D3

to actually use effective attack against him(Toxic and Seismic Toss).

Not necessarily, she has a crapload of ranged attacks.

She is very slow and has weak defensive states so this could be a problem for her.

What makes you think Dedede isn't slow/has bad defenses?

Jiggs needs some time to use Perish Song and in this time D3 can already land a fatal blow to her(2HKO).

She could stall with Substitute, Protect, Wish, Reflect/Light Screen, and so on. Hell, she could even hold a King's Rock and spam Headbutt to make him flinch repeatedly. Top this all off with her being able to spam status-reducing moves(Charm, at least) and gradually blind him with Flash, and she'd have the upper hand.

Flamethrower and all the other stuff is not effectiv since she has weak (Sp.)Attack states.

Says who, exactly? Fire is fire, no? Or is Dedede suddenly not susceptible to fire?

@ Dedede eating Jiggs - Jiggs is 1'08", or 20 inches, roughly 2.5 times bigger than Kirby. She's nearly as big if not as big as Dedede <_<

And Pokemon is full of game mechanics that don't make sense. Lucario can learn Bone Rush despite not having a visible bone like Marowak/Cubone. Dusknoir can know Mega Kick if you trade a Dusclops from Fire Red that learned it. Marowak/Cubone/Farfetch'd would all die if they lost their held items(it's even stated in Far's entry, I think), which wouldn't look good for Ninty, no? If Pokemon weren't to follow these limits, it wouldn't be that hard to get something away from a Pokemon as crappy as any of the 3. Knock Off's description simply says "Knocks down tbe foe' s held item to prevent its use". From that alone, it should work on any of Dee's items(since Pokemon can only hold one at a time, I dunno how it'd work out if he was using more, like the metal mask or his Wheelie.

Not Thick Club, the bone he's holding in his animation. If Gamefreak can make Cherrim, Ditto, and whatever other Pokemon with form changing moves/effects change at will, why not for Marowak? It would be really quite simple.

Anyway, my point still stands: If Marowak lost the bone he's shown to be wielding, Bonemerang would fail. As you can see, in-game, it doesn't, even if he isn't holding the item 'Thick Club'.

I can't think of another reponse besides "It's Nintendo."

 

[_clinton]

I'm sorry, is there psychological warfare in this match up? I'm not saying D3 is immune to Toxic, I'm saying D3's not going to puke if he's hit. Besides, you have no proof that he will puke and become o_o'd if he does get hit by Toxic.

I never said toxic was puke...I think it is something else…

Whatever toxic is doesn't matter,

Well…I don’t agree with that…

I don't think toxic is pokemon puking either, in japanese toxic is called "excessive poison" and the move summary is "A move that leaves the target badly poisoned. Its poison damage worsens every turn. " Some animals in real world for example do have the ability to shoot highly poisonous substances at us or produce it from glands in their skin. I'm not saying that jiggs somehow now has poison glands in there somewhere, as the case with toxic and every pokemon learning is just another game mechanic and is nothing big with rattatas shooting shunterbolts at you. But it's definitely poison the pokemon shoots at the opponent, it's even purple to indicate poison.

I never said it was throw up…I made a reference to a move in Okami (Brown Rage) for a reason…

I’m aware not every living creature has poison glands…but can you tell me anything out there never has to use the bathroom? (Just saying…almost everything that can learn TMs can learn Toxic…488 that is…but why don’t you look at the pokemon that learn it naturally as opposed to the TM if you don’t agree with me on what it is)

But imo, wish/fake tears/reflect/good special type move would be a good set fo jiggs. Fake tears is -2 to sp.defence, so that alone makes jiggs do some nasty damage with special attacks. Or toxic/protect/rest/charm to just stall him out.

Dude…why do you people still think Pokemon being able to only remember 4 things is canon...and things like a rat being able to us ice beam and such is canon as well?

I think this comic does a good job at explaining one of my points:
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=242

Let's do some math:

How about NOT putting D3 in a game going by its game mechs allows a vendor trash fish to kill a pack of gods?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7b3bOQ6lY

Anyone actually think this would go like that if they were going off what the in game background says about the pokemon in question?

Really people…which one is more impressive by its canon?

The King that steals all of the food in his world, all the stars in the sky, swims in a fountain that produces dreams after removing dreams from the world, and is almost always one of the 1st to be aware of the great evil that threatens his world…

Or a puffball that according to its actual background (pokedex…and guess what…there really isn’t anything crazy about its entry for this thing unlike some other things) is only capable of expanding its body size, and singing a lullaby (granted its body is like a ball…so maybe a body slam will hurt…maybe).
Oh and about D3’s size…

Oh and going on about D3…he is a self-proclaimed king as well…because he that much of a pure ******…
Oh…and he can order a monster to CLOBBUH DAT DERE KIRBEH as well (got to be a little bit not serious with this post you know)

50.8 centimeters=Jigglypuff
20 centimetres=Kirby

I’m pretty sure D3 beats JP in size…what with how Kirby has been shown to at times be only up to D3’s foot in size…

 

[the king of murder]

How does that abide the no outside assistance rule?

I dunno about that. The rules say that aiding and team support is not allowed. For example: Ike having his army the Greil Mercenaries or Sonic having Super Tails and Super Knuckles as his back-ups or Link having Zelda, Midna, the Spirits and the Sages to fight Ganondorf.

If Dark Matter possesses D3 he is not actively fighting in this battle. He just gives him some of his power nothing more nothing less so this should be allowed.

Not necessarily, she has a crapload of ranged attacks.

That was not my point. Most of her ranged attacks are beams like Charge Beam or Flamethrower. But because of her weak states those attacks will be weak too. So she have to approach him in order to inflict real damage to D3(Seismic Toss and Toxic).


But that doesnt matter anyway because D3 has strong ranged weapons himself.

What makes you think Dedede isn't slow/has bad defenses?

Atleast D3 can float so that makes up for his slowness. Also D3 has a better defense than Jiggs for sure. D3 never got 1-2HKOed by someone. So...yeah.

 

[PowerBomb]

I never said toxic was puke...I think it is something else…

Mind you, in that response I said D3 was going to puke from the nastiness of Toxic. I never said Toxic was from a puke.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Defence Curl
Destiny Bond
Sub
Wish

Tie?

 

[the king of murder]

Jigglypuff doesnt learn Destiny Bond.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Destiny_Bond

 

[ShadowLink84]

Says who, exactly? Fire is fire, no? Or is Dedede suddenly not susceptible to fire?

um, fire is fire is silly to say.
you have to factor how hot the fire is, the amount of time the individual is bathed n flame.
Whether or not they would actually be set on fire (skin is difficult to actually set on fire).

In regards to the third part, blue flames will burn you but not actually set you on fire .
Orange fire will set you on fire.
It all depends on the amount of heat and the combustible material.



<_<
>_>

I was bored

 

[IsmaR]

Atleast D3 can float so that makes up for his slowness. Also D3 has a better defense than Jiggs for sure. D3 never got 1-2HKOed by someone. So...yeah.

Which is why I pointed out she can use Gravity to ground him.

And Dee's normal boss battle gets or nearly gets 1hko'd by Kirb's Crash ability/MK's Mach Tornado.

@ shadow - Not my point, but k. We have nothing to go off of in relations to how strong ___ is, but Flamethrower is shown as an orange stream of fire. Looks like it'd hurt, even not coming from a dragon. Hell, Kirby's 2.5x smaller flame ability hurts Dee.

Not on normal comp, so I'll respond later to other posts.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Blizzard could neutralize if D3 decides to take flight, no? Shock Wave also remedies this.

Charm would horribly weaken D3's power.

Counter is self-explanatory.

Fake Tears + Flamethrower would be effective.

Edit: Double Team is banned, plus it goes against the rules.

-Terywj

 

[ShadowLink84]

@ shadow - Not my point, but k. We have nothing to go off of in relations to how strong ___ is, but Flamethrower is shown as an orange stream of fire. Looks like it'd hurt, even not coming from a dragon. Hell, Kirby's 2.5x smaller flame ability hurts Dee.

Not on normal comp, so I'll respond later to other posts.[/COLOR][/I]

THe thing with kirby is that he acts like a mimic. He copies almost the exact same stats or at least seems to enhance it in some manner or another.

Your color's make it difficult to respond.
Something less painful on the eyes please.

 

[_clinton]

If Dark Matter possesses D3 he is not actively fighting in this battle. He just gives him some of his power nothing more nothing less so this should be allowed.

Really people...I can't believe this is being brought up...it's like you're allowing Samus to turn into Dark Samus as a battle strategy for fighting a foe in this thread...am I the only one who sees why that is a bad argument?

That was not my point. Most of her ranged attacks are beams like Charge Beam or Flamethrower. But because of her weak states those attacks will be weak too. So she have to approach him in order to inflict real damage to D3(Seismic Toss and Toxic).

I like how Jigglypuff's stats vary between different games like PMD...and how its dex entry never says anything about it being able to breath fire/launch ice but you people for some reason think it can just because of a move pool that isn't exactly the greatest well thought out thing for a serious set of things...

As in...you guys are going off a game mech. where a vendor trash fish can have a small chance at taking on god and for some reason...the creatures in this world can only remember how to do 4 things at a time...

Based off their actual canon entry as in the dex (and like I said before...I don't see how this entry is insane unlike some other ones) and certain events that actually happen in the games with NPC JPs I can say this:

SSB is itself more accurate with what a Jigglypuff can do than the game she comes from itself with regard to a movepool...even if it has JP killing people by falling to sleep...

Mind you, in that response I said D3 was going to puke from the nastiness of Toxic. I never said Toxic was from a puke.

Oh...my bad

THe thing with kirby is that he acts like a mimic. He copies almost the exact same stats or at least seems to enhance it in some manner or another.

More of his moves in various games are a flat out 100% copy...there are maybe one or two exceptions

Oh and I hardly consider Kirby weak when he pretty much might as well have a resume built up with the phrase "all powerful demon killer"

(If that is what you are going on with Kirby...just saying...he isn't weak when you look at some of the things he can actually use)

 

[IsmaR]

Your color's make it difficult to respond.
Something less painful on the eyes please.

Lucky for you, I do post in lighter shades of Indigo from time to time. But I do not serve those with weaker eyesight than I for no decent reason.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Jigglypuff doesnt learn Destiny Bond.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Destiny_Bond

Oh yeah I meant Perish Song. My fault. ^^

 

[Samochan]

Blizzard could neutralize if D3 decides to take flight, no? Shock Wave also remedies this.

Charm would horribly weaken D3's power.

Counter is self-explanatory.

Fake Tears + Flamethrower would be effective.

Edit: Double Team is banned, plus it goes against the rules.

-Terywj

It doesn't go against the rules, there is no clause against evasion in this thread. >_>

 

[the king of murder]

Really people...I can't believe this is being brought up...it's like you're allowing Samus to turn into Dark Samus as a battle strategy for fighting a foe in this thread...am I the only one who sees why that is a bad argument?

Oh, sorry. I still think that D3 has the upper hand against Jiggs.

I like how Jigglypuff's stats vary between different games like PMD...and how its dex entry never says anything about it being able to breath fire/launch ice but you people for some reason think it can just because of a move pool that isn't exactly the greatest well thought out thing for a serious set of things...

I thought someone said that PMD is not canon?

And Jiggs learns those moves in her games because she can. Deal with it. Not everything in a game has to make sense.

The Pokedex doesnt hold all the infomations and secrets that a Pokemon has. Also the Pokedex has some contradictory informations about the Pokemons. It is bad example to base of a Pokemons moveset from the Pokedex entry.

Based off their actual canon entry as in the dex (and like I said before...I don't see how this entry is insane unlike some other ones) and certain events that actually happen in the games with NPC JPs I can say this:

Its pointless to argue about the Pokedex entry. It is banned for a good reason.

SSB is itself more accurate with what a Jigglypuff can do than the game she comes from itself with regard to a movepool...even if it has JP killing people by falling to sleep...

How is the Movepool from Smash Bros more accurate than the games she came from?
Smash Bros is not even canon. Sorry, try another example.

 

[Samochan]

Pokedex is hardly banned if much of the game supports even the more ridiculous stuff pokemons can do. And that's multiple games + sidegames combined that tell us the same thing. It's not gamefreak's fault they cannot include each and every pokemon doing stuff in each and every game can they? >_>

But basically, jiggs singing voice can make things fall to sleep instantly. Just try to poke that jiggs on pewter city on yellow with pika with you, and you'll notice pika just falls asleep lol. Moveset is usually complementing the pokedex, what we know about the pokemon and stuff, tho pokedex doesn't always complement the moveset for obvious game mechanical reasons.

Heck, machop is flattening the ground for building with brute strenght alone in vermilion city and they are seemingly awesome as cargo loaders. >_>

 

[PowerBomb]

Pokedex is banned >_> Some of the stuff would be easy, such as Charizard's white flame (which could be incorporated for a few Pokemon). Tyranitar could have received Battle Armor, perhaps giving it some kind of basis for its Dex entry. Dusclops doesn't even learn anything that proves its ridiculous entry.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I find the example for why the Pokedex is banned in the OP to be a pretty poor one. Yes, fire does half damage to rocks, but that may only be saying that Charizard's flame is (or can be) THAT powerful. By no means does that example prove that the Dex should be banned (even if it should). If it needs to be banned, pick a better example at least.

 

[_clinton]

Oh, sorry. I still think that D3 has the upper hand against Jiggs.

Great...so do I in case you didn't notice my 1st post for this topic pointing out that D3>JP in the 1st place

How is the Movepool from Smash Bros more accurate than the games she came from?
Smash Bros is not even canon. Sorry, try another example.

Well for starters…The move pool from smash doesn’t say some BS things like JP can control the weather…in fact the move pool from smash supports JP’s main pokedex entry in case you don’t get it…JP does use her body to attack…she can sing…she can grow/shrink by storing/releasing air…75% of them are female so I’m using she just because of that

Oh and I like how you say Smash isn’t canon so we can’t use it…even though plenty of things that make up smash are from other canon things...are you going to argue with me on the fact that…it still at least contains info that deals with the canon from these games?

The game isn’t canon at least for story purposes that it has for pretty much every character...even though it contains the closest thing to a story that characters like ROB and G&W would have (you don’t even have to talk about any characters but those two IMO…because as far as the game is considered…the other characters aren’t the real ones in the 1st place from their respective canons in case you didn't catch that comment from Sakurai when he was talking about the "game's world" being a world of "figurines")

Pokedex is hardly banned if much of the game supports even the more ridiculous stuff pokemons can do. And that's multiple games + sidegames combined that tell us the same thing. It's not gamefreak's fault they cannot include each and every pokemon doing stuff in each and every game can they? >_>

But basically, jiggs singing voice can make things fall to sleep instantly. Just try to poke that jiggs on pewter city on yellow with pika with you, and you'll notice pika just falls asleep lol. Moveset is usually complementing the pokedex, what we know about the pokemon and stuff, tho pokedex doesn't always complement the moveset for obvious game mechanical reasons.

Heck, machop is flattening the ground for building with brute strenght alone in vermilion city and they are seemingly awesome as cargo loaders. >_>

Thank you ^_^

Hell the pokedex entry is still in play more than you pointed out with that though…Pikachu falling but not your character is another point in the dex entry where it talks about how JP can change its voice tone to make only certain characters sleepy out of a group…

Pokedex is banned >_> Some of the stuff would be easy, such as Charizard's white flame (which could be incorporated for a few Pokemon). Tyranitar could have received Battle Armor, perhaps giving it some kind of basis for its Dex entry. Dusclops doesn't even learn anything that proves its ridiculous entry.

The Pokedex doesnt hold all the infomations and secrets that a Pokemon has. Also the Pokedex has some contradictory informations about the Pokemons. It is bad example to base of a Pokemons moveset from the Pokedex entry.

So let me get this straight…you two are ok with the move set not making sense for pretty much every pokemon but you’ll allow it anyway…

You are ok with a field mouse being able to control the weather (Rattata and his move pool in case you don’t get my point) even though there is nothing in the dex about said mouse being able to

In fact…for you guys arguing about the dex not making sense (again…there is a canon reason for the certain number of entries not making sense in case you people forgot) You seem to be ok with avoiding the other entries that do sort of make sense like Rattata’s entry…

I like how you can still say the FULL Pokedex is banned just because of a few WTF entries…

Even though there are many reasons for why they are WTF according to the canon…like for example on how the game world does admit to not knowing everything about Pokemon and how some of the entries are farfetched and exaggerated because of that…

Or just for some other reasons like dealing with Alakazam’s:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailTheIQTest

Of course…that was just my 1st view with Alakazam's IQ being like that:

Now I think the main reason for how Alakazam’s IQ being like that is because of this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreMorons
(As in…it’s not because the makers of pokemon don’t understand what IQ is…but more along the lines that they know kids won’t really understand it…which I guess is true…so they can do stuff like Alakazam having an IQ of 5000)

I find the example for why the Pokedex is banned in the OP to be a pretty poor one. Yes, fire does half damage to rocks, but that may only be saying that Charizard's flame is (or can be) THAT powerful. By no means does that example prove that the Dex should be banned (even if it should). If it needs to be banned, pick a better example at least.

A lot of things are bad in the original post…for example he completely butchered the definition of game mechs. by saying that the reason for Link getting the Fire Arrow was a game mech. but that is another issue

The Pokedex for pokemon’s canon is by far better than the battle system game mechs. for pokemon (that we seem to be going by for this…despite the fact that things like learning only 4 things is just silly)…400+ things being able to control the weather (and/or launch a Hadouken of some sort) because they just can is far more insane to say than just 90 or so BS (yeah…there are more than a few I’ll admit) entries in a booklet that are sort of there on purpose to add somewhat of a story to the game by the people who made the games…

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Well, I really just copied and pasted that Pokedex example so that's probably why it sucks.

The first game mechanic example doesn't really relate to game mechanics at all, yeah I'll change that.

Also, after a few more matches, we're going to have some serious match-ups coming up so be prepared ;p

 

[PowerBomb]

_clinton, if we delete every move that doesn't pertain to a Pokemon's type or logical moveset, then we stray away from the canon...

If we allow the Pokedex, some entries are like 'lawlwut, reality fail', but then again, many video games are. Dex just creates some paradoxes. Should we tie in stats and the Pokedex, and we get stupid assumptions like Mewtwo moving at the speed of ****ing sound.

Some of the Dex entries allow for stat manipulation BS.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Well, I really just copied and pasted that Pokedex example so that's probably why it sucks.

The first game mechanic example doesn't really relate to game mechanics at all, yeah I'll change that.

Also, after a few more matches, we're going to have some serious match-ups coming up so be prepared ;p

Yeah, I didn't mean to demean your awe-inspiring powers of....O....P....ness....I was just saying that it would be best to have an example or explanation that would effectively prove the point.

Hm, couldn't some things like Fierce Deity Link (as in its limitation to boss battles) be classified as game mechanics? I'm not sure if MM gives an explanation for the limitation, but if it doesn't it could just be a game mech that's in place so you don't go around everywhere bypassing puzzles and difficult enemies. Then again, I haven't played MM (I plan on starting soon though, I just beat OoT), so I can't say for sure.

 

[_clinton]

The first game mechanic example doesn't really relate to game mechanics at all, yeah I'll change that.

You should note some examples from this if you are going to change the game mech definition:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation

Or for a better point if you need an example...what does having 20 heart containers, 20 energy tanks, 900 HP, and rolling HP "really mean" as far as story is concerned? And things like touch damage...where someone takes damage from touching something...

if we delete every move that doesn't pertain to a Pokemon's type or logical moveset, then we stray away from the canon...

So...you think this is logically going to happen in the canon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7b3bOQ6lY

Plus...I don't see why you think 400 some odd pokemon can control the weather naturally when according to generation 3...only like around 3 of them have that skill it seems according to the story...and it's limited with them even to a point because there is more than one for starters and they do a specific thing only...

If we allow the Pokedex, some entries are like 'lawlwut, reality fail', but then again, many video games are. Dex just creates some paradoxes. Should we tie in stats and the Pokedex, and we get stupid assumptions like Mewtwo moving at the speed of ****ing sound.

Does the Dex say Mewtwo can move at the speed of sound + when going at max speed?

Even if Mewtwo is by far faster than Pidgeot going by game mechs. like the speed stat...that is my point I've been making in the 1st place...that story =/= game mechs.

(Of course...Mewtwo is a more powerful clone of the origin pokemon...which should say something about his power w/o having to steal from the stats of others to talk about it...but whatever)

Game mechs. are different for each game of a series (Pidgeot has close to the same attack/sp. attack that Mewtwo has in PMD as well based off the stats for that game) they aren't reliable to use...I mean...it took 4 generations of games to finally change certain punch moves to be physical in case you don't know that...

The story however is set in stone for what it means...you can't really spin it's meaning...as in there is no way a Magikarp could beat Ho-Oh/others according to the canon info from Pokemon...

The stats/moves/types/items/anything else that pertains to the battle system the pokemon have doesn't really matter that much at all...at least compared to what the dex says...

Hm, couldn't some things like Fierce Deity Link (as in its limitation to boss battles) be classified as game mechanics? I'm not sure if MM gives an explanation for the limitation, but if it doesn't it could just be a game mech that's in place so you don't go around everywhere bypassing puzzles and difficult enemies. Then again, I haven't played MM (I plan on starting soon though, I just beat OoT), so I can't say for sure.

FDL being limited to boss fights is an example of game mechs.
Personally...I don't know why they only made it usable during boss fights w/o a glitch...maybe because the thing is bigger than Goron Link and that might have caused some bugs with where you can go (because the model is the same one for Adult Link from OoT...only bigger and with a different look of course)

Of course...as in canon wise...Link never uses it for more than just that fight in the 1st place...but he did chances are keep it according to the canon...and the mask's power is actually greater than Majora's itself...as in...YL has devil god level power with him...why he lost certain fights in this thread remains a mystery to me...

 

[PowerBomb]

Does the Dex say Mewtwo can move at the speed of sound + when going at max speed?
Even if Mewtwo is by far faster than Pidgeot going by game mechs. like the speed stat...that is my point I've been making in the 1st place...that story =/= game mechs.
(Of course...Mewtwo is a more powerful clone of the origin pokemon...which should say something about his power w/o having to steal from the stats of others to talk about it...but whatever)

It's like this: Dragonite has base 80 speed -> goes around the world in 18 hours. Mewtwo has base 130 speed, it can now go around the world in 18 hours, despite the Dex making no mention of this.

Game mechs. are different for each game of a series (Pidgeot has close to the same attack/sp. attack that Mewtwo has in PMD as well based off the stats for that game) they aren't reliable to use...I mean...it took 4 generations of games to finally change certain punch moves to be physical in case you don't know that...

Yeah, I know. I kind of play Pokemon every now and then.

The stats/moves/types/items/anything else that pertains to the battle system the pokemon have doesn't really matter that much at all...at least compared to what the dex says...

Rofl, the Dex even tells you the types of the Pokemon you catch... it even references moves as well.

 

[_clinton]

It's like this: Dragonite has base 80 speed -> goes around the world in 18 hours. Mewtwo has base 130 speed, it can now go around the world in 18 hours, despite the Dex making no mention of this.

I'm aware of what you were saying...but did you notice how I disagree with that theory (like how I said Pidgeot flying at Mach 2 speed does not mean Mewtwo can move at those speeds...when the game mechs. like speed are different in various games...like in PMD...it isn't a stat at all it seems)

Yeah, I know. I kind of play Pokemon every now and then.

>_>

It doesn't seem like you got my point from this...I wasn't saying you should go play the games...

My point was that things like the battle system are always changing...but things like the pokedex haven't changed much with these games...so...which one is more useful as a canon source...the game play which is always changing (including things like type, stats, movesets, and items in case you can't tell) or the actual info (as in...the Pokedex) talking about them?

They both have some shaky things about them...but one of them is clearly having more issues...and at least one of them has a in game canon reason for their issues (not knowing everything about the world of pokemon)

Rofl, the Dex even tells you the types of the Pokemon you catch... it even references moves as well.

A. I mean types as in how Dragon's attacks are super effective vs. other dragons...
B. I'm aware of how it references moves...but notice how it doesn't reference moves as being the same for everything? As in...if it isn't in the dex entry or wouldn't make sense with the entry...than it is clearly put in to even the game out in some way

Like for example...Pidgeot being now able to learn heat wave...that was clearly put in so that their could be a counter for steal type pokemon in the game play part of Pokemon that pretty much can counter most said flying/normal types for the most part...heat wave is sort of a double + for Pidgeot though...because unlike most of the other normal/flying types it can somewhat use the special stats it has...nothing in the pokedex says Pidgeot can breathe waves of fire...it is clearly put in because of trying to balance things somewhat...

 

[PowerBomb]

'Somewhat' is the correct answer. We got Scizor out of Platinum and HG/SS.

 

[Diddy Kong]

'Somewhat' is the correct answer. We got Scizor out of Platinum and HG/SS.

So you mean... there's no Scizor in HG/SS? O.o

Anyways, who's winning?

 

[PowerBomb]

So you mean... there's no Scizor in HG/SS? O.o

Anyways, who's winning?

No, I meant that when HGSS/Platinum came out, the new move tutors allowed Scizor to shine and tear up the metagame. He really counters many Pokemon, including some Ubers.

I think Jiggs is winning.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, I meant that when HGSS/Platinum came out, the new move tutors allowed Scizor to shine and tear up the metagame. He really counters many Pokemon, including some Ubers.

I think Jiggs is winning.

Scizor was never good before iirc. So it's good it's finally getting some boost I guess. It's the Bug Bite move that makes him that broken right?

Wish, Perish Song, Sub should actually make Jigglypuff draw more often in future match ups I think... King DeDeDe might be too slow to take down Jiggly's subs and herself fast enough to win.

 

[IsmaR]

For the record, Heat Wave is blowing a gust of hot air/breath, not shooting fire.

And it's BP for Plat, BB for HG/SS mang.

And why is this MU still going on/taking so long?

 

[the king of murder]

OK, then lets call it a tie. D3 is not able to KO Jiggs because he lacks the options to do so. But she cant do much against him either. So this is the best option here.