Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ＪｎＬ]

Happy April's Fools; I ain't been prank'd you failed!

 

[Senselessbreak]

Honestly, I'd be fine with just Smash 4's mechanics, if they adjusted only a few things - 1: turn off the Brawl-esque moon gravity, and 2: remove the ability to airdodge more than once.

What if Smash Switch is the official Project M of Smash 4? Hehehe.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't really think the game needs any extra tech to be competitive. I understand that Melee players really like the tech and feel it adds a whole extra layre of difficulty/skill (and they're right), but having tech like L cancelling and wavedashing make the game significantly less accessible and overall wouldn't be healthy for the growth of the scene. I personally think the best idea for competitive validity is to just up the speed of every character slightly. More speed allows characters to cover more ground and lead into more real combos. Maybe add a little more universal hitstun as well so more combos are possible. I would like them to balance shielding a little more so it's less safe as well, but that's not really a big issue anymore. One thing I think Smash 4 got right is that it really needs you to learn to read your opponents. Not to say Melee doesn't have that, but it's a lot more technical consistency and less player/matchup knowledge. I personally found the Smash 4 meta far more dynamic and fun than the Melee meta, which I think has a lot to do with the fact that you can still perform well on most characters because they aren't as held back by technical limitations.

Also, Midday Lycanroc is best Lycanroc. It's my favorite Pokemon, I used it from beginning to end in both Sun and Ultra Sun

 

[mario123007]

She's part of a group of beings called Blades. Blades are born from Cores that can be summoned by Drivers, and each Blade packs extraordinary powers such as the abilities to control fire, water, electricity, and wind. However they still act like normal people, with their own personalities and basic needs like sleeping and eating, to the point there are stories of Blades and Drivers actually getting married. Not everyone can be a Driver though, only a select few can summon them, but any living thing can potentially become a Driver. Those that cannot summon a Blade will suffer a very nasty near death experience. The relationship between a Driver and Blade is important, as they need to work together in order to summon the full power of the Blade.

Blades are immortal, but with several catches. If their Driver ever dies, the Blade will revert back to being a Core and can be summoned again by a new Driver, but with recollections completely wiped the next time they're summoned. They however can die if the core on their chest is destroyed. Blades are also able to regenerate their bodies, but they will be unable to do so if their life force is shared with a non-Blade, such as what happened with Pyra and Rex.

Pyra and Mythra specifically are particularly special as they are the Aegis, a legendary Blade that ended a cataclysmic war in the past.

Hopefully this clears things up.

Um... Yeah ..
That bring said, the second part of you paragraph is basically spoilers....

spoilers dude!

A bit of the first paragraph, and yeah the second part.
I am in mid game so I didn't but.... Yeah.
And don't brag that spoilers aren't a big deal.... Uh.... No, they are.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

2: remove the ability to airdodge more than once.

Decreasing the air dodge's intangible duration is another option to consider, since I would not like the idea of air dodging leaving fighters helpless afterwards.

 

[CBO0tz]

Sora and Earthworm Jim are two guest characters I'd consider putting on my runner-up list, but they're not historically big video game characters.. At least not compared to the icons most people have on their wish lists (myself included).

Decreasing the air dodge's intangible duration is another option to consider, since I would not like the idea of air dodging leaving fighters helpless afterwards.

I'd be fine with that, too. Enough time to avoid a single aerial attack against you, but not a second jab or something.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Decreasing the air dodge's intangible duration is another option to consider, since I would not like the idea of air dodging leaving fighters helpless afterwards.

I like this idea, personally. I think airdodges should be more meaningful rather than being able to be intangible more often than not with no repercussion. They should definitely hack off some i-frames on each end of the dodge. Perhaps to compensate, they could reduce the duration of attacks that have multiple hits and last a long time, for example Sheiks up air and Fox's forward air. Right now they happen for roughly amount of time, effectively cancelling each other out. They could just make the attacks/dodges more meaningful by giving them less active hitboxes.

 

[Starcutter]

I think that having some universal techniques for smash will be beneficial, and if they are relatively easy to perform consistently I think it will have a positive effect on the competitive scene. I think wavedashing has the most potential to be a good universal mechanic in smash switch. Without it, people try to find alternatives for spacing tech. In smash 4, perfect pivoting became sort of a wavedash replacement, except it was much harder to do and much more situational.

I personally think that the melee metagame isn't as "balanced" (that's debatable in it's own right at this point) as smash 4 not because of "advanced techniques" but because of bad balancing in general. I do think melee has too many advanced techniques, I think that L cancelling is unnecessary and only exists to widen the skill gap, which I think is a bad thing.

In a perfect world, all characters would be generally faster, have a ton more hitstun on the moves (Thus easier combos), and have wavedashing. So basically, Smash 64 physics with Smash 4's mechanics + wavedashing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I like this idea, personally. I think airdodges should be more meaningful rather than being able to be intangible more often than not with no repercussion. They should definitely hack off some i-frames on each end of the dodge. Perhaps to compensate, they could reduce the duration of attacks that have multiple hits and last a long time, for example Sheiks up air and Fox's forward air. Right now they happen for roughly amount of time, effectively cancelling each other out. They could just make the attacks/dodges more meaningful by giving them less active hitboxes.

There's also the FAF period to keep in mind as well. Some fighters may be able to perform actions a few frames after the intangible period is over, enabling them to do another air dodge at will.

In regards to aerial attacks and their looping hits, however, I'm not too sure that it'll ever be possible to decrease their rehit rate upon performing a single air dodge.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

There's also the FAF period to keep in mind as well. Some fighters may be able to perform actions a few frames after the intangible period is over, enabling them to do another air dodge at will.

In regards to aerial attacks and their looping hits, however, I'm not too sure that it'll ever be possible to decrease their rehit rate upon performing a single air dodge.

I mean you could just take a hit off the move. Fox can just let out one less kick or something, and the same for all moves that operate similary. Give it less active frames so you have to time it better. It's really just a balance suggestion so airdodges don't become overly punishable and there is still not move that guarantees a punish on an airdodge.

EDIT: In regards to airdodge changes, I think what would specifically be better is an increase in time before a character can act out of one by a few frames. I would say I misspoke in my earlier message that said take off i-frames on each end. Airdodge should still come out as fast, but not be so safe afterwards.

 

[Patriot Duck]

I'd really like to see Rayman get into Smash 5. Rayman Origins and Legends already provide a ton of source material for his A moves. And his B moves could come from Rayman 2 and 3. He just seems like a natural fit and is my most anticipated character.

 

[New_Dumal]

I know it's not a proven fact but I think that Sakurai has a obvious Japan bias when it comes to games/characters.
This is the only thing that can leave Rayman away from Smash in my point of view.

 

[Starcutter]

Maybe you could only get one airdodge, but it refreshes when you get hit. Also, it shouldn't put you into special fall either, so jumping or attacking is still an option. I still like the idea of bringing back the directional airdodge for the next smash.

what I described is kinda like the Rivals of Aether airdodge now that I think about it.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Maybe you could only get one airdodge, but it refreshes when you get hit. Also, it shouldn't put you into special fall either, so jumping or attacking is still an option. I still like the idea of bringing back the directional airdodge for the next smash.

what I described is kinda like the Rivals of Aether airdodge now that I think about it.

While that would make stocks end quicker, I don't think it's the best decision. If they made that change, airdodges would almost never be worth it. The ensuing punish is massive if you bait an airdodge. I would really like if they just gave airdodges the Grab treatment and put a 30-60 frame window where you couldn't use it again.

 

[CBO0tz]

Perhaps to compensate, they could reduce the duration of attacks that have multiple hits and last a long time, for example Sheiks up air and Fox's forward air. Right now they happen for roughly amount of time, effectively cancelling each other out. They could just make the attacks/dodges more meaningful by giving them less active hitboxes.

This would def be a good thing to do. I noticed in Smash 4 they slowed down a lot of moves like Sheik's f-air, increasing their attack length. If this went back to how it was in Melee, that'd be great too.

In a perfect world, all characters would be generally faster, have a ton more hitstun on the moves (Thus easier combos), and have wavedashing. So basically, Smash 64 physics with Smash 4's mechanics + wavedashing.

Ehh, I doubt wavedashing will return, but Smash 64 physics with Sm4sh mechanics does sound really great.

 

[New_Dumal]

I like the idea of having one Smash4 airdodge but the next one puts you into freefall.
The unique downpoint is that it can be weird to explain to someone starting at a casual level. But the ledge invencibility works well with that difference from the first and second time.

I just hope they make the game more airbased and restraining players from keep airdodging would improve edgeguard and juggling.

 

[CBO0tz]

Maybe they could just combine all the effects - you can airdodge as much as you want, but there's a 30-60 frame gap between airdodges, and if you airdodge more than I'd say.. 3 times, you get put into a freefall state.

 

[New_Dumal]

There's already a frame window where you can't airdodge instantly after the last one. It's this that generates a lot of 50:50 and airdodge reads. I also like the idea of the extra lag when airdodging to the ground.
While I love Brawl, Smash 4 airdodges are much better. It can be improved restraining the player from spamming (airdodge + momentum away)in some situations, but the framedata itself I'm Ok with.

 

[Danpal65]

Maybe they could just combine all the effects - you can airdodge as much as you want, but there's a 30-60 frame gap between airdodges, and if you airdodge more than I'd say.. 3 times, you get put into a freefall state.

I am not sure the quota of air dodges before freefall state would be entirely necessary. I mean, giving each character 3 birddogs with a gap between them similar to grabs would require a heck of a lot of time in the air to go over that 3 dodges threshold. The only characters that it would really be an issue for would be Kirby, Jigglypuff and like Dedede?

Honestly though, you really do not see people spamming air dodges that much to the point that are a huge problem with the balance of the game in Sm4sh.

 

[CBO0tz]

Honestly though, you really do not see people spamming air dodges that much to the point that are a huge problem with the balance of the game in Sm4sh.

When you're playing against somebody with high damage, that's usually when the airdodge spam occurs.

 

[blackghost]

Just to
Smash 4 mechanics changes i want the most would be mainly character movement speed and gravity. Others like ability to throw tech (especially if icies return), fixing the buffer input window, decreasing shield regen, a return to the alt shield in mepee or tweaking ledge trumping to not allow the recovering opponent to buffer an input on ledge.
No wavedashing please. Landing lag reduction might be nice to have.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Honestly though, you really do not see people spamming air dodges that much to the point that are a huge problem with the balance of the game in Sm4sh.

It's not really that it's an issue, it has more to do with the fact that airdodges don't have a ton of counterplay other than a read. I think airdodges should have some kind of repercussion attached other than someone might read it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's not really that it's an issue, it has more to do with the fact that airdodges don't have a ton of counterplay other than a read. I think airdodges should have some kind of repercussion attached other than someone might read it.

They do add considerable amounts of landing lag, creating a punish opportunity.

 

[Deleted member]

It's obviously a sign that Ridley is still a relevant subject amongst the Smash fanbase, but I really don't think Nintendo need anymore pointers on Ridley's popularity, they know all about it. Sakurai obviously acknowledged it, but Nintendo were also memeing pretty hard about Ridley post-Smash 4 release, they mentioned his size issue on the launch live stream, as well as recognizing his Smash popularity in that Badge Arcade thing on the 3DS in a very straight forward way. Ridley has actually received a lot of attention from Nintendo post-Smash 4, even while Metroid was still inactive, @Zem-raj made a fantastic post about it in the Ridley thread.

All the craziness that happened on here 4-5 years ago certainly didn't go unnoticed, and I'd have been surprised if it did with the old thread reaching 78k replies and 3 million views, it was one of the most popular Nintendo-related discussions on the internet for a little over a year (it peaked between the Pyrosphere reveal and the final leak). His popularity in the Smash fanbase is unmatched in terms of consistency, so many fanbases have come and gone in the time Ridley has been considered one of the main candidates (spanning ~12 years), so that's never been the problem. I'm sure Sakurai will have revisited him once again, but that's probably as much impact his popularity can possibly have, chances are that Sakurai binned the idea within 5 minutes as he still doesn't think it possible, but we can only hope that this time he's finally pulled it off.

I actually do think that Ridley's best shot has yet to happen. Only thing is that it would be under a different director with a fresh perspective on the game.

 

[Knight Dude]

That's an absurd amount of work for a very specific niche.

It sounds like the Groove system from CvS2 a little bit. For example, certain grooves let you block in the air, while others can give any character the power to charge their meter. So instead of some weird "toggle" something like a "Groove ability would be great, since it'd be at the CSS and each player could choose what they wanted.

I don't think it needs to outright ape Melee, but if there's a button dedicated to these specific actions, and there's some for offensive or defensive traits/abilities that can be shared for the whole cast, I'm down with that.

 

[kylexv]

Was browsing through the K. Rool thread and found this treasure trove from the past:
https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

Seems like people were already talking about K. Rool, Ridley, and Geno being playable even right after seeing the first gameplay footage of Brawl.

EDIT: A correction

 

[Deleted member]

Was browsing through the K. Rool thread and found this treasure trove from the past:
https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

Seems like people were already talking about K. Rool, Ridley, and Geno being playable even before we first saw gameplay footage of Brawl.

I wouldn't take a sample size of less then 100 characters as an indication that characters like Ridley and K. Rool were popular suggestions. Granted, Ridley likely did well in the Japanese pre-Brawl poll but I doubt K. Rool did. His fan base didn't start to take off until Diddy Kong's confirmation.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

They do add considerable amounts of landing lag, creating a punish opportunity.

Only if you airdodge into the stage, though. I'm talking about exclusively the in-air interactions.

 

[Retroend]

i just want sakurai to make kirby viable in competitive play and buff him. thats all i would need.

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding Captain Toad, if he gets in as playable, why not just call him "Toad" and give him both the iconic outfit and the Captain Toad alternative costume? That way everyone is happy. He could even use the pickaxe from the Captain Toad games without going through the convoluted "no jumping" mechanic.

 

[N3ON]

Was browsing through the K. Rool thread and found this treasure trove from the past:
https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

Seems like people were already talking about K. Rool, Ridley, and Geno being playable even right after seeing the first gameplay footage of Brawl.

EDIT: A correction

I wouldn't take a sample size of less then 100 characters as an indication that characters like Ridley and K. Rool were popular suggestions. Granted, Ridley likely did well in the Japanese pre-Brawl poll but I doubt K. Rool did. His fan base didn't start to take off until Diddy Kong's confirmation.

I'd also keep in mind those results are only a tiny, curated sample of the total number of submissions, they're only the ones that became featured. Therefore they're not reliably indicative of much.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd also keep in mind those results are only a tiny, curated sample of the total number of submissions, they're only the ones that became featured. Therefore they're not reliably indicative of much.

Exactly. I only said what I did because Sakurai has spoken twice about Ridley, the latter of which mentioning his fan demand. I don't think he would have gotten a mention had he not done well enough to get his attention.

 

[Weeman]

Sylux denial

 

[The Animator]

I'm guessing this is probably just a rumor or April fools prank, but someone told me there was going to be new smash information revealed tomorrow but I haven't found any sources online even mentioning this. Has anyone heard anything?

 

[Hinata]

I'm guessing this is probably just a rumor or April fools prank, but someone told me there was going to be new smash information revealed tomorrow but I haven't found any sources online even mentioning this. Has anyone heard anything?

You definitely got baited, mate.

 

[Knight Dude]

Sylux denial

Denial of what exactly? Denial of him being important? Or denial of him being in the game?

From a gameplay perspective, I think he could actually be fun. He has these electric landmines, and between two of them, they'll connect together and deal more damage if someone runs into them. Of course there's also a limit on how far apart they are. And if a third is placed, I'm pretty sure they explode.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I would like to take this moment to bid Ridleyboards adieu. Ridleyboards, I pray for your safe return in the coming months. No dream is too BIG <3

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Only if you airdodge into the stage, though. I'm talking about exclusively the in-air interactions.

No.

Any action you take in the air adds landing lag.

Test it out in Smash 4 yourself.

Jump and then jump with an air dodge.

Even after the air dodge is finished, it'll have more landing lag.

 

[SneakyLink]

With RidleyBoards about to go extinct, I would like to say farewell.

Let us enjoy his bigness in the future.

 

[Starcutter]

...I still think a single directional airdodge that doesn't put you into special fall would be the best.

You can still use moves afterwards to further cover a landing/recovery but it kinda makes you think before you throw one out since it won't always be the best option.