Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

Just got home.

I just want to let you all know Paper Mario consistently scored high in Ballot fanpolls. It's my obligation to do this as the annoying Paper Mario fan around here.

And also to let you know, to keep believing in whoever you want to see, whether it be Skull Kid, Isaac, Midbus, or General Pepper.
Hang in there until release!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Was Geno highly requested during the ballot period? I don't remember a huge amount of support here, but, I don't really remember.

At this point, the only thing I could see holding Geno back is the potential lack of ballot votes and licensing. But I don't think that'll be a huge issue.

For some ****ing reason Geno became ridiculously popular in the Brawl days and Sakurai himself said he wanted Geno in 2 games in a row

 

[Majora's Visage]

The only notable issue that Skull Kid has is that much like with Midna and Ghirahim, the Skull Kid who wore Majora's Mask isn't exactly a recurring character in the mainstream titles.

Anyway, while I am indifferent about Skull Kid's fate, for the most part, I feel that Impa has better odds of making the playable cut, especially if she's merely Sheik's Echo Fighter.

He was in 3 games, albeit 2 were minor roles which says more than Midna and Ghirahim. OOT Link teaches him Sarias Song. MM the same Skull Kid gets Majora's Mask. Then in Twilight Princess Skull Kid leads Link to the temple in Lost Woods

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I feel like some of you are forgetting that Skull Kid got revealed as an Assist Trophy early on in Smash 4’s hype cycle, killing any support he might have had going into Smash 4 and beyond. Had he not been AT’d, I’m certain he would have been one of the big, big names going into the Ballot period.

Now we have the Moon, by itself, as an Assist Trophy, and Skull Kid nowhere to be found. That’s odd, and imo a very good sign, so it makes sense that Skull Kid fans would be more active now. We finally have some hope to latch onto.

And a bonus, Sakurai can’t pull a on us like in Smash 4

The only notable issue that Skull Kid has is that much like with Midna and Ghirahim, the Skull Kid who wore Majora's Mask isn't exactly a recurring character in the mainstream titles.

Anyway, while I am indifferent about Skull Kid's fate, for the most part, I feel that Impa has better odds of making the playable cut, especially if she's merely Sheik's Echo Fighter.

I say both should join Smash

Smash 4 is gonna die and for good reasons too.

Not only is it the most dullest and blandest of the series with absolutely nothing to make it stand out, (N64’s Classic iteration, Melee’s competitive gameplay, Brawl’s Subspace), and lacking a true title, but Ultimate outclasses it in every way imaginable.

The only way is Smash 4 is gonna still be played are us waiting for Ultimate and those who can’t afford a Switch atm (no offense).

Unless Smash Ultimate takes the mode away from exclusivity, Smash 3DS still has Smash Run (the one mode from all of Smash 4 that needs to come back)

 

[StormC]

For some ****ing reason Geno became ridiculously popular in the Brawl days and Sakurai himself said he wanted Geno in 2 games in a row

Two words: Rawest Forest.

 

[vaanrose]

I always saw Impa and Midna ahead of Skull Kid when people talked about Zelda characters. Not saying they have a higher support base, but when the topic came up Skull Kid never seemed like the first mentioned.

Impa came way after Skull Kid got AT'd. Way after. After Midna and Ghirahim were AT'd, too. By the time people started actively supporting Impa, it's because she was all that was left.

 

[Cosmic77]

Before leakers...

Ridley was a "LOL not happening" character.
People thought Snake would never come back. Get over it.
Nobody gave Simon the time of day.
Everyone thought Skull Kid wouldn't get in over other popular characters.
Decidueye won hands down.

Regardless of whether or not they end up right, you can't deny Verge and Loz are a huge influence for who we deem most likely. While I do think Skull Kid would've picked up support following K. Rool's reveal even without Loz, I doubt he'd be seen as a top contender (unless the chair theory is more popular than I remember).

Just got home.

I just want to let you all know Paper Mario consistently scored high in Ballot fanpolls. It's my obligation to do this as the annoying Paper Mario fan around here.

And also to let you know, to keep believing in whoever you want to see, whether it be Skull Kid, Isaac, Midbus, or General Pepper.
Hang in there until release!

Paper Mario presumably did excellent in the ballot, but people continue to undermine that accomplishment because Geno exists and Sakurai would never ignore the top pick and choose the second banana.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Midna would have been the best new Zelda rep for me personally, but since that's not happening I'm going to my 2nd best in Tetra.

 

[Luigi The President]

He was in 3 games, albeit 2 were minor roles which says more than Midna and Ghirahim. OOT Link teaches him Sarias Song. MM the same Skull Kid gets Majora's Mask. Then in Twilight Princess Skull Kid leads Link to the temple in Lost Woods

You said yourself those 2 were minor roles. Midna basically got a whole game about her and also appeared in Hyrule Warriors (notably before Skull Kid).
Remember Skull Kid is a species, meaning TP Skull Kid may not even be the Skull Kid we know and love.

It is a dangerous path you are treading.

Two words: Rawest Forest.

DAMAGEMYRIGHTEYEMORETHANNINETIMESNINETYNINE

 

[Garteam]

Do you know who's fell off the fake leak bandwagon? Bandana Dee.

Prior to the August direct, he was in everyone and their grandma's leaks. Now, almost no leaks seem to have him, even leaks that swear by the holy tetrad of Geno, Issac, Banjo, and Skull Kid don't have him.

Weird thing is, nothing has changed about Bandana Dee's chances. No other Kirby or spear wielding character has been confirmed or even hinted at. He's still extremely popular in Japan, unique, and relevant. You'd also think K. Rool's confirmation and the confirmation that ballot results would play a key part in Smash Ultimate's roster would increase his visibility, given how well he did in that category, but nope.

Granted, this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd figure a character who has so much going for him would be on more fake rosters.

 

[Luigi The President]

Before leakers...

Ridley was a "LOL not happening" character.
People thought Snake would never come back. Get over it.
Nobody gave Simon the time of day.
Everyone thought Skull Kid wouldn't get in over other popular characters.
Decidueye won hands down.

Regardless of whether or not they end up right, you can't deny Verge and Loz are a huge influence for who we deem most likely. While I do think Skull Kid would've picked up support following K. Rool's reveal even without Loz, I doubt he'd be seen as a top contender (unless the chair theory is more popular than I remember).



Paper Mario presumably did excellent in the ballot, but people continue to undermine that accomplishment because Geno exists and Sakurai would never ignore the top pick and choose the second banana.

Yes, as I often remember...
It's a bit shocking to see people state "actually nobody wanted him during the Ballot" when they...really, really did. It's often to put Geno on a pedestal. And I want Geno a good deal! I love him. But it's concerning.
I wonder if Sakurai will pick both if PM was popular enough. Can't see why not.

Do you know who's fell off the fake leak bandwagon? Bandana Dee.

Prior to the August direct, he was in everyone and their grandma's leaks. Now, almost no leaks seem to have him, even leaks that swear by the holy tetrad of Geno, Issac, Banjo, and Skull Kid don't have him.

Weird thing is, nothing has changed about Bandana Dee's chances. No other Kirby or spear wielding character has been confirmed or even hinted at. He's still extremely popular in Japan, unique, and relevant. You'd also think K. Rool's confirmation and the confirmation that ballot results would play a key part in Smash Ultimate's roster would increase his visibility, given how well he did in that category, but nope.

Granted, this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd figure a character who has so much going for him would be on more fake rosters.

Oh totally. I have no idea where that little king has gone.
Suddenly, Banjo and Skull Kid are locks and Bandana Dee...isn't?
Like...okay...uh...this doesn't add up

 

[Diddy Kong]

This will be my choice for a Zelda newcomer until the day I die.

Good choice. Hopefully Ganon can becomr the next Ridley in terms of overhyped Nintendo villain suggestion. Ganon is appearing a lot since late as the main villain, seems like Nintendo wants to establish the boar version over the King of Thieves. It makes sense, but I still wish to see Ganondorf more.

For now, I think Impa and Skull Kid will suffice however.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Only thing Ultimate doesn’t have are customs...but those weren’t really needed in a way (hopefully Smash Tour stays away)

Technically, we still don't know if custom specials are truly dead. Similarly, we have no information on the Mii Outfits and Mii Headgear yet.

 

[PeridotGX]

Do you know who's fell off the fake leak bandwagon? Bandana Dee.

Prior to the August direct, he was in everyone and their grandma's leaks. Now, almost no leaks seem to have him, even leaks that swear by the holy tetrad of Geno, Issac, Banjo, and Skull Kid don't have him.

Weird thing is, nothing has changed about Bandana Dee's chances. No other Kirby or spear wielding character has been confirmed or even hinted at. He's still extremely popular in Japan, unique, and relevant. You'd also think K. Rool's confirmation and the confirmation that ballot results would play a key part in Smash Ultimate's roster would increase his visibility, given how well he did in that category, but nope.

Granted, this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd figure a character who has so much going for him would be on more fake rosters.

Didn't notice it before, but that's odd. He's my most expected newcomer at this point.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Not counting Hyrule Warriors, Ganondorf hasn't appeared in physical form since Twilight Princess. It's surprising how long he's been absent from the main series.

 

[StormC]

I think the issue with Bandana Dee is basically as follows:

-He might not be deemed the sort of "hype character" that follows
-Sakurai bias is still in play
-Lack of strong western support compared to Japan

I'm personally pretty ambivalent on his chances at this point, around 50/50, but I can see why people are losing hope in his inclusion.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Skull Kid is one of those characters who's always had a lot of silent support, a lot of people have always liked the idea of him but haven't pushed for him as he's been considered unlikely. Now that he seems more likely those people are coming forward with their support and are really pushing for him. Ridley and K. Rool's inclusions also means a lot of people now have their most wanted characters in, and as such can now focus on their 2nd, 3rd and 4th most wanted characters, and with Skull Kid being a villain he naturally appeals a lot to fans of those two characters.

Going into Ultimate I was one of those who really wanted Skull Kid but rarely talked about him as he seemed a quite unlikely, it's only natural for me to be more vocal about him after it's looking like it could happen.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Y'all all wrong. You're forgetting the REAL best Zelda character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He was in 3 games, albeit 2 were minor roles which says more than Midna and Ghirahim. OOT Link teaches him Sarias Song. MM the same Skull Kid gets Majora's Mask. Then in Twilight Princess Skull Kid leads Link to the temple in Lost Woods

The Skull Kid from Twilight Princess might be a different entity altogether though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Y'all all wrong. You're forgetting the REAL best Zelda character.

Right now I'm really glad I can't see pictures on Smashboards

 

[WertQuadNine]

I always saw Impa and Midna ahead of Skull Kid when people talked about Zelda characters. Not saying they have a higher support base, but when the topic came up Skull Kid never seemed like the first mentioned.

Yeah, it's really crazy. I also don't know if all these Skull Kid fans are just being more vocal, or if there are just a lot of new ones since the rumors. I am admittedly one of the latter.

 

[Rockaphin]

Geno's support skyrocketed during the ballot period compared to Smash 4 speculation. There was a whole social media campaign.

I must of missed it. But to be fair, I didn't really stick around for the ballot stuff. I remember not seeing too much support pre-ballot.

It's my obligation to do this as the annoying Paper Mario fan around here.

 

[Luigi The President]

I must of missed it. But to be fair, I didn't really stick around for the ballot stuff. I remember not seeing too much support pre-ballot.

You...I like you.

 

[StormC]

Geno probably did well enough for Sakurai to consider trying to add him again since he wanted him in Brawl, which is all that matters at the end of the day.

 

[Octorockandroll]

"We regret to inform you that Jeanne is now banned from tournaments."

Why would that get her banned? She loses a big asset of Bayo's arsenal and gets less combo power too because of the higher knockback. Sure, she'll be able to hit like a truck and still be top tier, but she'd definitely be less strong than bayo herself in tournament

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I must of missed it. But to be fair, I didn't really stick around for the ballot stuff. I remember not seeing too much support pre-ballot.

Geno supporters lost hope after we started to realize Square needed to be involved for his inclusion, and Square were kind of known to be "stingy". That and a lot of Geno supporters started getting attacked and hounded like crazy during pre-Smash 4 so they stayed silent for the most part. The Geno thread on here was a warzone and was not fun.

We figured the Ballot though was the time to rise up

 

[Dee Dude]

...Ok, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem I can get but where the h*ll do people get the idea that Kirby bias exists??

The three characters having key roles in SSE? Being Sakurai’s own created franchise? If anything, Kirby needs more love and attention.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Impa came way after Skull Kid got AT'd. Way after. After Midna and Ghirahim were AT'd, too. By the time people started actively supporting Impa, it's because she was all that was left.

Yes! Also remember that there were also loads of people who voted on the ballot as if promotions would never happen. Most of the Impa support that started since "the others are all AT'd, so they're out of consideration" could have translated to her getting the most ballot votes out of any Zelda characters.

I'd just be really annoyed if, after all these years, Zelda finally gets another clone. I guess it's better than nothing, but still...

Before leakers...

Ridley was a "LOL not happening" character.
People thought Snake would never come back. Get over it.
Nobody gave Simon the time of day.
Everyone thought Skull Kid wouldn't get in over other popular characters.
Decidueye won hands down.

Regardless of whether or not they end up right, you can't deny Verge and Loz are a huge influence for who we deem most likely. While I do think Skull Kid would've picked up support following K. Rool's reveal even without Loz, I doubt he'd be seen as a top contender (unless the chair theory is more popular than I remember).

Yeah, I often wonder how different speculation would be if we didn't have these leaks. I remember there were always the people hoping Ridley or Snake were possible, but they were mostly considered pipe-dreams. Simon was an absolute nobody around here until Vergeben made it acceptable to support him.

Now all we need is for Vergy to leak Dovahkiin. That thread's not getting enough traffic

 

[---]

Impa came way after Skull Kid got AT'd. Way after. After Midna and Ghirahim were AT'd, too. By the time people started actively supporting Impa, it's because she was all that was left.

Diddy Kong has been pushing Impa since the pre-E3 2013 threads. lol

I do agree that as of late, probably due in part to Hyrule Warriors, support for her has gone up.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...Ok, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem I can get but where the h*ll do people get the idea that Kirby bias exists??

The three characters having key roles in SSE? Being Sakurai’s own created franchise? If anything, Kirby needs more love and attention.

I agree, Kirby is one of my favorite series

I just don't like Bandana Dee. There is so many better and more unique options.

 

[vaanrose]

People need to learn their history, lol.

Skull Kid only got an assist trophy in the first place, in spite of not appearing in a game for 14 years at that point, because he was a popular choice to be playable. His AT doesn't even do anything cool to justify his inclusion, he's literally just there because of the fans.

 

[StormC]

...Ok, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem I can get but where the h*ll do people get the idea that Kirby bias exists??

The three characters having key roles in SSE? Being Sakurai’s own created franchise? If anything, Kirby needs more love and attention.

I want Bandana Dee added so Sakurai is forced to acknowledge Kirby games other than his four besides two characters' Final Smashes and a costume.

 

[T-Hell]

Yeah of course, let's pretend now that a poll is the only thing going for a character to be playable. Let's ignore that Sakurai also has his own criteria based on several factors that end up making a character playable. All of them Skull Kid fulfills, INCLUDING polls.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

...Ok, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem I can get but where the h*ll do people get the idea that Kirby bias exists??

The three characters having key roles in SSE? Being Sakurai’s own created franchise? If anything, Kirby needs more love and attention.

The bias people usually bring up in regards to Kirby is that Sakurai tends to focus more on representing the games he made rather than modern Kirby. I think it's getting better in that regard though, it's certainly not a strong argument as to why Bandana Dee would be unlikely.

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe I'm forgetful, but I don't remember a lot of requests for Geno during the ballot. Felt like everyone and their great grandmas were voting for K. Rool, Banjo, Shantae, BWD, and Shovel Knight.

That's not to say he wasn't popular, but I don't think his fans were nearly as vocal as they were for Brawl.

Do you know who's fell off the fake leak bandwagon? Bandana Dee.

Prior to the August direct, he was in everyone and their grandma's leaks. Now, almost no leaks seem to have him, even leaks that swear by the holy tetrad of Geno, Issac, Banjo, and Skull Kid don't have him.

Weird thing is, nothing has changed about Bandana Dee's chances. No other Kirby or spear wielding character has been confirmed or even hinted at. He's still extremely popular in Japan, unique, and relevant. You'd also think K. Rool's confirmation and the confirmation that ballot results would play a key part in Smash Ultimate's roster would increase his visibility, given how well he did in that category, but nope.

Granted, this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, but you'd figure a character who has so much going for him would be on more fake rosters.

BWD is an enigma. I'm confident that he was more popular than most of the other unconfirmed characters left, but it feels like a lot of people just randomly dropped him after K. Rool.

Oh well. This weeds out the true supporters from the followers who only care about being right with their predictions. I still think BWD is just as likely as he was when Smash was first announced, if not even more likely.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Not counting Hyrule Warriors, Ganondorf hasn't appeared in physical form since Twilight Princess. It's surprising how long he's been absent from the main series.

Yeah - Ganondorf's last main-line appearance was a game from 2006. #BringTheDorfBack

I do agree that as of late, probably due in part to Hyrule Warriors, support for her has gone up.

I'm sure Hyrule Warriors supported a lot of Zelda characters. It came out right before Sm4sh released, so it was definitely fresh in peoples' minds for the ballot. But again, since most others were AT'd, I bet Impa benefitted most.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel like some of you are forgetting that Skull Kid got revealed as an Assist Trophy early on in Smash 4’s hype cycle, killing any support he might have had going into Smash 4 and beyond. Had he not been AT’d, I’m certain he would have been one of the big, big names going into the Ballot period.

Now we have the Moon, by itself, as an Assist Trophy, and Skull Kid nowhere to be found. That’s odd, and imo a very good sign, so it makes sense that Skull Kid fans would be more active now. We finally have some hope to latch onto.

I think Sakurai is considering the most popular characters not only from the ballot, but from pre-Smash 4 to Brawl to Melee. Perhaps some votes could have been given to Skull Kid considering the spike of pre-Smash 4 popularity regardless of status, but it would have likely been decent popularity at best. That popularity would still be enough for Sakurai to consider the character though.

 

[TheYungLink]

Aside from my Young Link Echo Fighter idea, I do still think it's overdue for Zelda to get another newcomer. Another Zelda (the one from Breath of the Wild or Tetra) and another Ganon (Toon Ganondorf or Ganon from the old 2D games) would be great if Sakurai really only wants to stick to the Triforce wielders.

But like most Zelda fans my favorite choices are one-offs. I was sad to see Midna deconfirmed since she's the best part of Twilight Princess, and would represent the "Link's talking partner" aspect of the 3D games. But for villains, Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask is more or less the most standout non Ganon villain. Yeah there's Vaati but aside from being "the second most recurring Zelda villain" he's not especially interesting. I wouldn't mind him but Skull Kid is so much more fascinating than another "student betrays teacher" bad guy since there's lots to him that makes him sympathetic and relatable despite the monstrosities they create.

So yes, I like Skull Kid and want them in, especially since Midna is deconfirmed. That and I don't see any of the 4 Champions from Breath of the Wild as playable (sorry Urbosa, my one true love) since their backstories were all too sparse to really understand them and their ultimate role in merely giving Link some magic powers.

I GUESS I'll take Tingle if they get in.

 

[staindgrey]

Impa came way after Skull Kid got AT'd. Way after. After Midna and Ghirahim were AT'd, too. By the time people started actively supporting Impa, it's because she was all that was left.

I'm still a fan of Midna + Wolf Link as the next Zelda rep over Skull Kid, let alone Impa, even though Midna was deconfirmed by being shown as an AT.

But fans scrap at what they can get when they know they can't get exactly what they want.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah of course, let's pretend now that a poll is the only thing going for a character to be playable. Let's ignore that Sakurai also has his own criteria based on several factors that end up making a character playable. All of them Skull Kid fulfills, INCLUDING polls.

Please tell me this criteria?