Smash vs Traditional Fighters

[Pengie]

verbal diarrhea

Kindly locate your head and remove it from your ass; the last thing that we need is a stereotypical smasher talking out of his *** about fighters because his little feelings were hurt by some random trolls. That's tantamount to some one coming on here and judging the entire community based off of idiots such as poundslap. Once again, remove your head from your *** and learn 2internetz next time you go on a computer.

 

[ETWIST51294]

The trolls on SRK are the equvilent to you, Bane guy. They know nothing about smash just like you know nothing about fgs. BTW your whole post is ********.

 

[VicViper]

People like Bane are the perfect example of why a lot of SRK doesn't take Smash seriously.

You sounded like you had an idea for a second, then you fail to mention Guilty Gear, but instead mention Vampire Savior, AH3 and such?

I've been playing 2d fighters for a while and am among the one of the top players in my country in the games I actually play (Im not a fan of SF) but I agree with the majority of people here.

I feel that the majority, if not all 2d fighters are just too simplistic when it comes to a large amount of factors.

Oh you blocked ___? You punish with ___ for maximum damage, or you try to do something gimmicky and milk out more damage from getting a counter hit/something with better scaling off (with risk)?

The thing that I find simplistic about these games is that once you hit, you have two options theoretically: Go for the most damage possible, or go for some reset/gimmick to milk out more unless defended correctly.

I don't feel smash suffers from this combo/punishing flaw, due to the way DI and knockback is, most combos will be different and there is almost always oppurtunity for more damage if you predict correctly.


Most games have I find have very stale movement, especially the SF series, where each game has the basics (such as backdash, forward dash, super jump) and some form of +1 (rolling, airdash or such) which ends up not having enough options IMO in comparison to melee.


Disagree with me as you will, but this is a simple statement of opinion from someone who plays a large amount of 2d fighters.



Also another note: When I try to get other 2d fighting game players here into smash, I find that the players here find melee to be one of the following:
Too fast
Too complex
Not linear enough

or simply enough

"Too hard"

Well I mostly just listed off solid games I have the most experience with. I don't really have much experience at all with GG. I definitely plan on getting into it sometime in the near future though.

Also, it sounds like you're oversimplifying everything you mention. I mean honestly, a lot of these points seem like they could be argued against Melee. There are definitely a lot more options in traditional fighters than you're considering, as the different methods of movement and the different implementations of attacking and blocking create a varied myraid of options between games.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Bane if you really don't like it, go to SRK yourself and shut them up. I do it all of the time. I actually enjoy shutting them ******* up. But don't do it in a ******** manner like that.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I'd think we can do better than flamers on SRK, Zivilyn Bane.

Redact presents a good example of someone who has a thorough knowledge of both, and backs up his point accordingly.

Doing better than flamers on SRK gets us no where, anyway. They don't give two ****s about anything any of us have to say, regardless of how true or reasonable it is.

Bane if you really don't like it, go to SRK yourself and shut them up. I do it all of the time. I actually enjoy shutting them ******* up. But don't do it in a ******** manner like that.

Nah, you think you shut them up, but in reality they just stopped caring about what you have to say.


Anyway, I've done my best to get into the finer points of traditional fighters. I spent this school year playing SSFIV with my roommate. We invested in a fight stick, we learned what we needed to learn, and we practiced. I'm not going to say I got good on a competitive level, but I understand how the game works at higher levels. In addition to this, I am just now getting into MK9 (which right now I am enjoying much more than the SF or MvC series. Take from that what you will). With that said, I still don't see as much depth in the traditional 2d fighting game genre. While it is deeper in certain regards, I find that overall Melee gives more competitive depth. Traditional fighters put much more emphasis on mixups (although I prefer the mindgames aspect of Melee to this) and timing, but I feel that the basic mechanics behind Smash still give it an edge. Now, let me be clear and say that I don't think it's an important edge. Honestly, it's almost negligible. I also recognize that I am extremely biased. Although I tried my best to be truly objective about the genres, there's no avoiding the obvious biases.

With all of that said, I think it comes down to preference. I prefer the feel and mechanics of Smash, most people prefer the feel and mechanics of traditional 2d fighters. The small depth advantage I believe Melee has over these games means almost nothing, because these games are already extremely deep and competitive on their own. Who cares if Melee is a 90 on the depth scale while SF is an 85 (arbitrary and made up number system FTW). It doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that there is no way to objectively measure depth. I feel Melee is more deep because I devote more time to it. A SSFIV professional will feel that his game is more deep because he devotes more time to it.

All I ask is that the general fighting game community accepts and recognizes what Smash has to offer. However, not only do they think the game is trash, but they continue to keep a closed mind to anything any of us have to say. They don't care about us or our game. Any attempt - rational or otherwise - to get them to see the competitive depth our game has to offer is a waste of time. They hate us, and because of that, I have a hard time not hating them. Well, okay, that's a little too strong. I don't hate them. However, I can't be a part of their online community. It's just not possible.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

GG is the closest thing you get to smash in terms of technical skill. The recovery system (which is basically teching) helps mix up the combos a little bit, Roman Cancels and False Roman cancels add some more depth, and it has slightly more complicated movement than traditional fighters (lol Chipp). Dustloop is an alright place too, SRK sucks lol

 

[VicViper]

GG is the closest thing you get to smash in terms of technical skill. The recovery system (which is basically teching) helps mix up the combos a little bit, Roman Cancels and False Roman cancels add some more depth, and it has slightly more complicated movement than traditional fighters (lol Chipp). Dustloop is an alright place too, SRK sucks lol

I like SRK actually. It's worth wading through all of the bullcrap on there to get to the good stuff.

 

[Minato]

People from other fighting game communities don't really hate Smash, they mostly hate the Smash community.
The reason why is because (of bad threads like this) some Smashers always try to claim their game is more technical and deep while not taking the time to understand traditional fighters.

 

[Gamegenie222]

You realize that some SRK folks hate on games that is not a Capcom fighter at times as well right.

 

[Melomaniacal]

People from other fighting game communities don't really hate Smash, they mostly hate the Smash community.
The reason why is because (of bad threads like this) some Smashers always try to claim their game is more technical and deep while not taking the time to understand traditional fighters.

The notion that SWF = the competitive Smash community is laughable. Though I'll be fair and admit that you didn't exactly say that. Most of the people on SRK that I've encountered seem to believe this, though.

 

[Pengie]

And many people on this site seem to be intent on assuming that all of the trolls on SRK are representative of the entire fighting game community.

 

[Melomaniacal]

And many people on this site seem to be intent on assuming that all of the trolls on SRK are representative of the entire fighting game community.

Which isn't true, but we have to go through them to get to the actual community. I, for one, am not willing to do this.

 

[-ACE-]

People will stick to what they know, and Melee is definitely the most unique fighting game I've ever heard of. Can't speak from experience, but it seems much more convenient to play Street Fighter and other traditional fighting games because transferring skills from one to the other is quite easy, so even as new games come out you can enjoy the same basic experience. Melee is probably never going to have a sequel that even comes close to it, so players who invest time in Melee are typically in it for the long haul.

Dude I have ***** a lot of my college friends in newer sf games just by using good spacing and special moves i remember from sf2: sce for sega genesis lol. Given I was the self-proclaimed world champion of that game, the skills do transfer very easily.

And yeah the only game I've have played seriously (more than like once a year) since 2006 is melee, literally. Lol

 

[Minato]

The notion that SWF = the competitive Smash community is laughable. Though I'll be fair and admit that you didn't exactly say that. Most of the people on SRK that I've encountered seem to believe this, though.

Yeah, I didn't really mean people on SWF. SRKers seemed more annoyed by people making accounts on SRK just to argue about Smash on their site.

It's too bad the Smash community and other FGCs will never see eye to eye though.

 

[CloneHat]

It's too bad the Smash community and other FGCs will never see eye to eye though.

That's kind of the point of the thread: why the stigma?

 

[JOE!]

do people on SRK all unite for "Traditional Fighting Games", or just SF? Are there any other factions like GG dudes hating on SF, ect? Or is it just Smash vs Them?

(just curious)

 

[crush]

I personally think Melee is chess and other fighting games are either checkers, connect four, or tic-tac-toe. But then again I will admit I know nothing about other fighting games and thus my opinion is utter worthless trash

I personally think your analogies are horrible

Just saiyan

 

[Minato]

That's kind of the point of the thread: why the stigma?

There's a variety of reasons why Smash and Melee hasn't caught on.

First one is the community. Other fighting game communities don't like the Smash community since some members (mostly the outspoken ones) are childish and immature. All forums are like this though, so this is a silly excuse.
They hate how Smashers don't try to understand other fighting games and think their game is superior. (I do agree and think that Smashers are missing a lot of key points/mind games in other fighters though)

Second is how they don't like having to play Smash the exact same way as the Smash community does. They don't like following the exact ruleset of things. They see things like stage banning as proof that Smash isn't really meant to competitive. They believe that stuff like items are a part of the game and should stay in. They did try hosting Brawl and Evo that one time and the Smash community was in an uproar on having items in and such. They just hate dealing with stuff like that.

Third, they don't play it enough to understand that Smash has depth and can be competitive. Both communities are at fault for this, but I can't blame them. No one wants to play a game long enough just to understand how deep it is. It takes too much time and commitment.

And last, Melee is an old game. Some of them respect Melee, but the game is old. There's not a huge incentive for them to pick up an old game that they may or may not like and put time into it.

do people on SRK all unite for "Traditional Fighting Games", or just SF? Are there any other factions like GG dudes hating on SF, ect? Or is it just Smash vs Them?

(just curious)

SRK members all have their own favorite game and a difference in opinion on many different fighters.
They do tend to unite against Smash though, but mainly because it's a topic they hate being brought up over and over again.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I dont see why we have to see eye to eye. They have SRK and we have Smashboards. I love melee, but i dislike traditional fighters.... and thats why i have an account here and not on SRK... I dont see why we all have to be super awesome friends with each other...

 

[Melomaniacal]

I dont see why we have to see eye to eye. They have SRK and we have Smashboards. I love melee, but i dislike traditional fighters.... and thats why i have an account here and not on SRK... I dont see why we all have to be super awesome friends with each other...

It's just a matter or respect (for me at least). I respect their communities and their games, and I expect the same respect in return. But I don't get that, and for... stupid reasons, basically.

Also, it's a deterrent from members of other fighting game communities from trying out Melee and potentially getting into it.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I understand where youre coming from and i think that the problem is lack of interest in learning from the other. neither community really wants to learn from the other.... in general at least

 

[Signia]

how about you actually explain **** instead of keeping ur elitist **** to yourself

oh sorry didn't see this

couple dumb things said on page 1:

-Clonehat tries one of worst of the latest "traditional fighters" and dismisses everything else. He probably has not played it enough to see its depth and has probably not joined a competitive community. Obviously if a competitive FG player randomly picked up melee they'd probably think the same thing. You have to have a pretty deep understanding of FGs to make a judgement by watching videos or playing the game a short while. I'd say you'd have to learn two games in-depth first before being able to pick one up and draw he necessary comparisons needed to make a judgement on its depth. And when I say in-depth... I mean understand the system inside and out, how the metagame has developed, and the whys behind how the game is played at high level.

-Massive thinks fighting game skills are easily transferrable. They are to some extent, but watch a couple minutes of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8q5oJQgzas... these guys were great at other games, but not so much in MvC3. The skills that are transferrable between traditional fighters are also transferrable to Smash games. So that has nothing to with the stigma.

-Mystek talks about comboing and how it's not very deep and all you do is wait for it to end. It is true, the combo situation is so much more interactive in Smash games, and that is their greatest strength, in my opinion. But it's not as bad in traditional fighters as you might think. A new player trying out a fighting game someone brought to the gathering will usually end up as combo practice, and it feels like you are just waiting, but that's only because the new player has no idea what their opponent is doing, or what the possibilities are. You still need to be on the watch for combo resets and areas where you can escape if they screw up. Other than that, most games either have short combos or "combo breaker" mechanics. The Marvel is series is an exception. So either you aren't waiting very long or there is some interactivity for escaping. He's still right, but I felt he didn't fully understand a couple things.

-Pengie appears to think games can be just as good, just "different." Only identical things are equal... if you think similar games are all the same you need to look deeper in order to say which is deeper (better).

-Clonehat makes a good post but I'll nitpick his statement saying that Melee's movement is easily more complex than in the average fighter. Idk what he considers average but there are a lot of fighters out there with plenty of movement options, which is I think is underestimated. Though in Melee, moving locks you into doing certain things, and those restrictions causes pretty dynamic play (by that I mean the set of options each player has any given time changes very quickly, which make things very interesting).

-Bigfish thinks Naruto fighting games are traditional. Or he's just chattering.

-104 guy with gay furry avatar doesn't know the MvC2 combo timing in question and tries to compare it to fox tech skill. His comparison is horrible though, because the 3 frame window for the fox technique is probably much easier. Why? Because there's a huge difference between having to find a 2 frame timing window and consistently hit it and having to hit two inputs within 3 frames of each other

So that's what I was talking about. Nothing too stupid was said and nobody was blatantly pompous about it, so I didn't feel the need to explain myself until you wanted me to. If I went around correcting everybody I'd spend all day on the internet.

 

[CloneHat]

Does anyone have examples of things we're missing strategy-wise? I know about the high/low blocking.

 

[choknater]

i really really really like naruto ultimate ninja storm 2

idk why it isn't more popular. idk. it's godlike LOL

 

[Signia]

Does anyone have examples of things we're missing strategy-wise? I know about the high/low blocking.

lol

10you'remissingalotofthings

 

[choknater]

zoning, spacing, aggression, camping, grab/attack mixups, punishing techs, jump options, punishing aerials, footsies, poorly spaced attacks, spamming projectiles, defensive options like parries and dodges, movement options like air dashes and double jumps and rolls, combo breakers, infinites, baiting/conditioning/reading, tiers...................






you see some kind of combination of these in like every fighting game, and can apply them to your liking in every fighting game.

smash (and naruto ultimate ninja storm 2 good.) just LOOKS different, and plays really unorthodox. the principles are the same

 

[ETWIST51294]

Camping = zoning + runaway. Camping is a smash term.

 

[Jonas]

So as it appears, they are a bunch of closed minded elitist morons with no respect for our game. So why should we respect theirs?

Because the game is not to blame for how ******** its players are?
It's not about "respecting other people's games." It's about not being a ****ing fanboy who refuses to educate himself on anything besides his own favorite game.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Because the game is not to blame for how ******** its players are?
It's not about "respecting other people's games." It's about not being a ****ing fanboy who refuses to educate himself on anything besides his own favorite game.

Are you under the impression that they are more open to trying Smash than we are to trying SF/MvC/traditional fighting game X?

Because I feel and have experienced the opposite.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I've met a lot of people on SRK that plays smash, but not nearly as much as smashers that play FGs (and I'm not talking about the ones who casually play SSF4, MvC3, and BB. I'm talking about the ones who actually know how to play the games.).

 

[choknater]

Camping = zoning + runaway. Camping is a smash term.

yeah same thing lawl doesnt matter whose term is whose, but the tactic being employed.

 

[ETWIST51294]

But the thing is that camping is such a bad term. It bunches zoning and running away together. Falco shooting lasors and Falcon running away are both camping. Cable throwing grenades and using vipers beams is camping but so is Storm flying to the top of the screen and floating.

 

[Jonas]

Are you under the impression that they are more open to trying Smash than we are to trying SF/MvC/traditional fighting game X?

Because I feel and have experienced the opposite.

No

I just hate that "oh that guy is an idiot, so i guess I can be too" attitude.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

ETwist are you joking? I certainly hope you're talking about casual smash.

Signia, I agree with you on how he judged other FG's but TvC is a really underrated game. I feel like most people don't give it a chance just because it's on Wii,

 

[AmigoOne]

Does anyone have examples of things we're missing strategy-wise? I know about the high/low blocking.

Hey guys, Im a SSFIV player here. OOOOLD competitive melee player too, never was too good. But I'll offer some of my insights here.

To the rebuttal of talking about when you can't do anything when your being combo'd in a regular fighting game is no different from being chaingrab'd or gimped. Sometimes you get punished hard for what you do and there's nothing you can do about it. You can DI sometimes being chaingrab'd, but your opponent would pretty much have to be asleep to miss it.

Melee is complex because of its percentage knockout system and everything I'm sure we all know here. Combos are never the same, DI this and that. Gimps and DI make for lots of comeback factor. There are equivalents in SSFIV. But Im just going to list some differences.

Keep in mind that melee is to smash like SF:ST was to SF. Both are the accidental pioneers into a competitive community for the game. Some things were implemented for deeper play, but most of it was unintentional. Capcom decided to embrace their accident, and nintendo... well...

Spacing and zoning in Melee is virtually nonexistant. Now I know that this will rile up the most of you, but its true. Spacing in melee is vital in making approaches and attacks safe. Wait what? Didn't you just say it was nonexistant in melee???? Hold on, let me explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw

This video explains spacing on a more advanced degree than just "space at the tip of the attack" which is to be aware of the ranges where your opponent can move and attack in a short amount of time, which in turn, you can punish. The other point was just a supplement to that which was you don't need to be defensive/shield when you are out of that range and also a tiny bit on character specifics.

This is spacing with an aggressive mindset for melee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkv_IDrCwX8

This is spacing with an aggressive mindset for SSFIV

In this tutorial video, we see Akuma's various options at certain aggressive/offensive spacing. Keep in mind, this is ONLY OFF ONE MOVE. The video presents the most common situation where these specific spacing setups are landed, the options you have against the opponent, which include beating the opponents options, or "safe" ones. At lastly there are small mentions of how to recreate similar spacing through other extremely simple setups.

This is off one move. There are other moves that cause the same state of untechable knockdown with different spacing variations, such as LP shoryuken, Ultra/Super, Shakunatsu fireball, 2 hit ex hadouken, throws, demon flip T+S+P, etc etc.

This is only off the AGGRESSIVE/OFFENSIVE side of spacing/footsies. Melee is offense orientated because of the percentage/knockback system. There is little to no defensive spacing at the higher levels of melee. Why? There is little to no reward, in fact, its a liability. The damage system in itself hinders defensive play for this kind of fighter. In regular fighters, the objective is "don't lose your health more than your opponent". For melee however, it's "don't fall out of the boundaries". In defensive play, you punish the opponent for predictable approaches. You do this in regular fighters, you're good to go. In melee, it doesn't work. Your opponent will not fall out of the boundaries by simple punishes to the approach until extremely high percentages. It's almost impossible to play defensively in a traditional sense especially at low percentages because of the damage system. There simply isn't enough hitstun at lower percentages and your opponent ends up right where he wants to be. Reward in offense is much better than the reward in defense. Your reward in defense for melee is that you gain an advantage in offense.

It's a bit different in brawl because the lack of ability to combo completely kills rewards in offense, stripping the reward down to purely the percentage and knockback you get in a single move. If you think of it that way, you can reap the same exact reward playing defensively, which is safer within the settings of brawl.

In street fighter, you can see defense is viable. It's much more straightforward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc&feature=related
4mins in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evqB1eb6oOA

If you want to know more about SF foosties/spacing/zoning
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

So in comparison, smash footsies, well, its as barebones as it can get.

In a direct reply to what offensive mixups and technical difficultly that SSFIV has, watch some of these tuts....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diqWHCko3w4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISKfZgwRT4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfP3oj_8oXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP1sVYUxGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHHoGHcgK9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUxBBH6YNHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDMboPnznJc&feature=related

to get a more full comprehensive guide to just one character, heres another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMVI-7cn04

And SSFIV is simplistic compared to a lot of other games. Try 3rd strike. And HyperFighting style games are a whole nother beast.

Golden moments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLCQpVqlMGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM&feature=related


You know for a community that ****rides sirlin's outdated guide(who is an SF player), Im surprised at a lack of respect for traditional FG. You don't have to respect the community because I know there's a lot of heat between the two groups, but the smash players to diss on the games are a joke. Period. There's been 2 decades of fighting games. There's been 1 competitive smash. Show some respect.

 

[ETWIST51294]

ETwist are you joking? I certainly hope you're talking about casual smash.

Signia, I agree with you on how he judged other FG's but TvC is a really underrated game. I feel like most people don't give it a chance just because it's on Wii,

What the hell are you talking about

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Wow, my obvious trolling was taken pretty serious. Tough crowd, huh?

I've been on smashboards for a very very long time and trust me, I know how to post. I really thought my post would not have been taken so seriously. Especially since I already stated I knew NOTHING about other fighting games. Maybe lighten up a bit?

And Crush, don't get on here calling my analogies horrible. That's just mean dude.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I'm not one who blindly judges other FG's (look at my avatar) and I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I want to say a few things here. Chaingrabbing and gimps are ALL about the victims interaction. A Marth chaingrabbing a spacie has to predict fast. He also has the option of FThrow to try and catch his opponent off-guard with a tech-chase. On the defensive side, there's shield poking and adjusting your shield high and low, shield breaker combos, but there's a lot of focus on OoS options to (there's a Ness tactic called DairSHDJCFFACOoS lol). Melee guides are at least as extensive, and low tiers while unexplored by many, are also a whole different level.

I do give you credit for showing the stuff SF has got though, I've always enjoyed FGs like GG and Marvel but I always took it as more simplistic. I've also watched those two vids before.

 

[Redact]

The more I think about it, the less of a difference I see between the two genres. The big thing is which 2d fighter you're attempting to compare it with.



The biggest differences i see that apply to pretty much every tradition fighter vs smash are:

The meter game (super bars)
Movement options
The mix-up game
DI



Smash doesn’t have any form of meter, and meter adds an immeasurable amount of depth in some games. Look at how GG or SF uses their meters, the sheer depth added by meter and the uses of it are simply immeasurable. Now name me some traditional fighters with no meter, I cant think of a 2d one off the top of my head without a meter that’s past the ps1 era.

Smash has an extremely large amount of movement options compared to 99% of fighters, MvC series and GG have decent movement options, but I personally feel smash simply has more options with platforms and all the other factors. Air dash is something that Smash doesn't get near, but in smash there is rolling/wave dashing/short hop/dash dance are all in one game where as usually a tradition fighter will feature one or two special ways of moving around at most. KoF has rolling, MvC has wave dashing, most have some form of air dash, but you'll be hard pressed to find one with all of them in one. The movement isn't just about moving, it's what makes spacing such a large aspect in smash, because we have so much control over it.

Blocking in smash is pretty lacking, our shields get smaller over time or whilst being hit, which is somewhat the same as the standard guard bar. There's no chip damage but there is shield poking (which is a good idea). We have light shielding which is the same thing as barrier/fortress in arksys games. But what we lack is the overhead/low/cross over game. Having varying block strings, command grabs, and teleports makes blocking a much much deeper mechanic in 2d fighters than in smash, and don’t forget the classic un-blockables.

DI is just... DI. It makes combos in smash what they are. It's how combo videos are so amazing in smash, and so common in comparison to combo videos for traditional fighters. DI can make or break a player, one spot of good DI can win a game, and one spot of bad DI can lose a game. You can predict DI, you can bait DI and you can react to DI. We all know why DI is good. I see how DI wouldn't really work in traditional fighters, but it's something that traditional fighters lack. In some fighters when you start a combo, you already know exactly how to continue it and exactly how it should finish. This doesn't apply to melee.



Comparing smash to GG is very different when comparing smash to say SF4. They’re almost polar opposites on the traditional fighter scale, each with very different features in comparison to smash.

GG's technical difficulty is on par with melee, if not harder. You have characters like Sheik/Marth who don't need ridiculous amounts, just like Slayer or Pot. But then compare fox with say Ino then you have a real challenge. Yes fox is F***ing hard, but so is doing any decent combo with Ino. I'd personally be amazed if anyone here could even get half close to the stuff that’s theoretically possible with Ino. GG has it's small *** FRC frames, hard link frames and nigh-impossible hit confirms, stuff that can easily rival melee in terms of technical difficulty.
GG's tension is where it shines though, the sheer amount of factors that involve tension in that game is ridiculous. Imagine if Fox could use 50% meter and then do a 1 frame grab, or if Marth could spend 50% to make an f-smash finish 1 frame after it hits. The RC system is something smash has no alternate for. Burst is another factor I am a fan of, GG executes it perfectly.

Then compare SF4 to that. You get focus moves now, no air dash, no burst, a defensive slow paced-fighter where your movement is linear yet solid. The combos can be just as hard in SF4 with some of the tightest links ever. You've got ultra now to use as well, don't forget you can change those based on the matchup.



Also for those hating on SRK for hating on us, just grow up.
In Australia, smash is well respected by the other scenes because we respect them. Our largest street fighter events run side by side with smash. Our best GG players will legitimately tell you "smash is an extremely deep and complex game".
Smash is not there to prove it's the best or it's more complex, It's there to be played. If you have some ******** complex where smash must be recognized as the best game ever, then you should work on perception rather than trying to push the point. Insulting another game and it's players is the least useful way to promote smash. Maybe when you dominate the board in almost every traditional fighter you can attempt to force your opinions of the genre upon others, but for now you should probably just stick to understanding each genre.



Well I get pretty bored at work hey lol

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

In Australia, smash is well respected by the other scenes because we respect them. Our largest street fighter events run side by side with smash. Our best GG players will legitimately tell you "smash is an extremely deep and complex game"l

That's it. I'm moving to Australia!