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SmashCAP 3: Typing Poll

Vote wisely.


  • Total voters
    28

Circa

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Vote for Riddle!

Terywj
[collapse=Fighting/Ice]My submission - Fighting / Ice

Offense (Both types)
Super Effective - Normal, Ice, Rock, Steel, Dark, Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ground
Not Very Effective - Bug, Flying, Psychic, Poison, Fire, Ice, Steel, Water
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Both types)
Weaknesses - Psychic, Flying, Steel, Fighting, Fire
Resistances - Bug, Dark, Ice
Immunities - N/A
*- Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

The most pressing concern is the weakness to Steel, meaning Scizor can switch-in and Bullet Punch the life out of SmashCAP 3. However, paired with a strong movepool, a mixed set with Fire Punch could force Scizor into some mindgames. Also, utilizing a strong Special Attack score, and preying on Scizor's weak Special Defense stat with a STAB Fighting-type move can also help out SmashCAP 3. That aside, the Fighting-, Flying-, and Psychic-type weaknesses aren't immediately threatening due to the scarcity of Psychic- and Flying-type moves, but a weakness to Fire-types is also a letdown. Fighting / Ice trades off great offensive capability for poor defensive type combination.

Offensively SmashCAP 3 is no pushover - being able to score supereffective hits against 9 different types, including Dragon, Steel, and Flying. SmashCAP 3 will be able to threaten Pokemon like Salamence, Tyranitar, Gliscor, Flygon, and Breloom with its supereffective STAB moves. Also, if we orient SmashCAP 3 to that of a special attack, preying on these Pokemon's weaker Special Defense stat will also benefit it.[/collapse]

Annoying1359
[collapse=Fire/Ice]Fire / Ice

tl;dr: this typing is incredibly bad defensively and incredibly good offensively.


Defensive
Resistances: Ice (x2), Grass, Bug
Weaknesses: Ground, Rock (x2), Water, Fighting

Defensively, this Pokemon is a wreck. Bug is fairly uncommon attacking types; switching into resisted attacks will be difficult. Grass is a move type that might only be seen once once on a team, usually solely for Swampert. The double Ice weakness, however, is more useful. Ice attacks are on all teams because they check the beasts that are Salamence and Gliscor. It would be fairly easy to switch into Scarf Jirachi's Ice Punch, Weavile and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Starmie's Ice Beam... the list goes on and on.

Weaknesses to Ground, Rock, Water, and Fighting are all quite horrible. Ground, in the form of Earthquake, is the most commonly used move in the game. Stealth Rock cuts this Pokémon's HP in half upon switching in; Rapid Spin support is very useful. Any other Rock attacks will OHKO this Pokémon. Water, found in Surf and Waterfall, makes up roughly 15% of all offensive attacks. A Fighting weakness is also bad. Close Combat and Superpower both hover between 5 and 6% of all used moves.

The faint light that shines behind these weaknesses are its teammates. Many Pokémon are immune to Ground and Fighting attacks. Vaporeon stands alone as an OU Pokémon who is immune to Water; Quagsire and Poliwrath are two less common Water Absorbent Pokémon. As previously stated, Stealth Rocks can be Rapid Spun away.


Offensive
Super-effective: Bug, Grass, Ice, Steel, Dragon, Flying, Ground (one or both)
Ineffective: Fire, Water (both)

Offensively, the Fire / Ice typing is simply amazing. Steel, Flying, and Dragon are all very common types, and are all hit super-effectively. Less common, but still often seen in OU, are the Ground and Bug Pokémon. The Pokemon who resist the offensive combination essentially boils down to Heatran and bulky waters. The glass cannon that is Infernape is excluded. Bulky Waters could be dealt with by moves such as Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt, Leaf Blade, or Hidden Power. Scarf Heatran has a ridiculous weakness in that being locked into a move is very bad because its common move's typings are offensively weak. Non-Scarf Heatran are easily outsped and OHKOed by the likes of Infernape, Flygon, and Swampert.

Going even more in-depth, this Pokémon has "anti-metagame" merits. Scizor, Salamence, Latias, Jirachi, and Metagross are are hit super-effectively by this Pokémon's STAB attacks. Those who aren't harmed by a Fire / Ice combination, such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Gyarados, are maimed by Grass or Electric attacks, which one would obviously carry for damaging bulky Waters. Then there are Pokémon like Gengar and Infernape who are OHKOed by almost anything.[/collapse]

Writer
[collapse=Normal/???]My submission - Normal / ???

Special Note: The ability, whatever it's named, will function like a Trace for typing. Upon switching in, its secondary type will become that of the opposing Pokemon's primary type. In the event that it tries to copy a Pokemon of the primary Normal type, it gains no secondary typing and this ability functions in the same way as Adaptability. This activates just after switching in, so Stealth Rock damage is a constant neutral no matter what the secondary type becomes. Also, because there are no primary Flying-types outside of Arceus, it should be noted that this Pokemon will never become Normal/Flying when used outside of Ubers.

Offense (Definite type)
Super Effective - N/A
Not Very Effective - Rock, Steel
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Definite type)
Weaknesses - Fighting
Resistances - N/A
Immunities - Ghost
* - Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

This was actually an idea I had a long while ago for a Kecleon evolution that could actually function in a standard competitive environment. Although this is a gimmick, it's not what you would necessarily consider a bad gimmick. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite. The mixture of being Normal-type and also being given the ability to become every other possible type in the game (bar Flying at this point in time) allows us to give it a ridiculously diverse movepool, possibly rivaling even that of Arceus. Now, why isn't this broken beyond belief? Well to put it quite simply, because we actually have control over it.

This is kind of a hard concept to actually explain the usefulness of past just 'movepool', and I don't think I quite have the time to try either. I just think it's a good idea for a Zook Pokemon. It's both creative and unique, and definitely something fun for us to mess with as we try to make a gimmick that is actually usable in OU. A single set could function in a completely different manner, just because of what its secondary typing becomes. Even something as simple as a mixed sweeper set, which would be meant to run great no matter what its secondary typing becomes, could function differently or gain some necessary KOs just by picking up a specific secondary STAB (or nabbing the 'Adaptability' boost). It's a mixture of fun and serious with a good amount of depth, which is what I believe this specific CAP needs to be.

Also, the reason why I chose Normal as opposed to some other typing is because it's a decent medium for everything, which gives it at least some sort of consistency. It probably won't matter much offensively (considering how its movepool will likely be), but in the event that you want to run a defensive set it would probably be really nice to have that consistency going for you. Also, Zook is a person, which is normal.

Idk. Love it or hate it, that was my idea. I was hoping to talk about typings and other such things, and how each could help or hinder it, but something unexpected came up that will likely take me the rest of the day to do.[/collapse]
 

Circa

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Voted Tery's because I don't like voting for my own.

And because Riddle's couldn't be on there (despite how tempting it was to put his submission up there anyway).

And because 4x weak to SR is a big no-no in my book.
 

Fuelbi

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Also PIPA and CISPA
I forced it back into one.

I just hope that if Fighting/Ice is SmashCAP3, that it is fast enough to outspeed Scizor, which Tery pointed out as one of its weaknesses.
 

Circa

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I forced it back into one.

I just hope that if Fighting/Ice is SmashCAP3, that it is fast enough to outspeed Scizor, which Tery pointed out as one of its weaknesses.
You can't outspeed priority, and Scizor isn't weak to any of the currently existing priority moves. And because the typing is Ice-type, I highly doubt we could just make Fire-type priority, give it to this Pokemon, and fix the issue.

When you see Scizor, your best option is to just switch out. Pursuit won't be hurting too badly anyway.
 

Wave⁂

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Tery's submission sucks because Surskit resists Fighting / Ice.
 

Tacel

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I think a fire/ice combination is just too unique too turn down.
I'm excited to see how this turns out.
 

Greenstreet

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I've been lurking for the most part of SMASHCAP3, but I decided to vote.

Concept assessment - More-or-less a sweeper-esque Pokemon, who can handle Blissey.
^My vote was generally focused on that. I thought Tery's was the best able to take down a lot of big threats. Obviously it can't take down all of them, so I reasoned this with the fact that we aren't trying to make a perfect Pokemon, just something interesting to add to the metagame.
 

mood4food77

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okay, if we're going to do that

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT GIVE IT MAGIC GAURD!!!
 

Moozle

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I voted for Tery's, although I was very tempted to vote for Writer's. The only reason I didn't was because I kind of feel like CAPs are supposed to fit into the current metagame, not create whole new aspects of stuff. Still a sweet idea though.
 

Riddle

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I honestly do not see why Writer's Normal/??? submission is not winning this. Fire/Ice is 4x SR weak which is simply not acceptable. Look how bad that screws some pokemon Moltres would easily be OU with that. Rapid Spin/Anti-lead support is simply not effective. Unless it gets Mountaineer (stupidest. ability. ever.) than its going to quickly become not viable. On the flip-side Fighting-Ice is Bullet Punch weak and cant do **** to scizor. That is definitely possible to work around especially since Fighting/Ice resists U-turn. However, my MAIN problem with Fighting/Ice is its lack of viability as a wall breaker and creativity. It gets good priority and has relatively good STABs so it could be a pretty good mixed attacker as well. Honestly the only thing I can see this doing is being a better Weavile. Its typing really just lends it to a fast mixed attacker who can take out frailer teams. We do NOT nead anything to further hurt offensive teams. Without monstrous offensive Stats this thing will most likely have problems with Rotom, Swampert (Calderan) and other stall threats.

Normal/??? on the other hand has unlimited possibilities. I see it functioning similarly to how Krilowatt was meant to work (go look at Smogon CAP if you dont understand). Obviously copying dragon typing isn't going to help you with countering dragons but it can counter a lot of other things that rely on STAB. For instance if you switch in on Scizor you resist U-turn or if you come in on Calderan you resist Water. This has potential to do almost anything we want it to do because the typing is so variable.

tl;dr Noraml/??? doesn't limit us nearly as much as the other two. Vote for it.
 

UltiMario

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It's because I can still spam posts about Wonderguard for Fighting/Ice or Fire/Ice, but not Normal/???
 

Circa

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I voted for Tery's, although I was very tempted to vote for Writer's. The only reason I didn't was because I kind of feel like CAPs are supposed to fit into the current metagame, not create whole new aspects of stuff. Still a sweet idea though.
You and I obviously have different thoughts as to what CAP should do. I translate "fit into" to "gets walked on by" or "outclasses something in". And I translate "not create whole new aspects of stuff" into "I'm too lazy to actually try and see how this plays out, even though I'm probably totally wrong". You see, because I'm not entirely sure how my idea is creating whole new aspects. It's the same basic concept behind Kecleon and Conversion2. I just happened to make it much more usable. All it really is, is something that can change its secondary type.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Writer gets my vote over Annoying.

In the end it was a matter of how the designed SmashCAP Pokemon would be able to meld into everything and still be a formidable sweeper. Albeit it removes the ability stage of SmashCAP 3, but nonetheless it's a very well thought concept.

That's not to say that Annoying's Fire / Ice submission was by no means a bad submission. His glass cannon approach is a wonderful way to express SmashCAP 3, but I feel as if Normal / ??? will give Zook more versatility options.
 

Terywj [태리]

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In the event that we have a tie, the members who voted for the remaining submission will have to place their opinions on the tying two.

Also, I would like this wrapped up by sometime tonight. Around 7:30-8:00.
 

Terywj [태리]

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The following five members must post their selection of Fighting / Ice or Normal / ???
charmander1065, Metal~Mario, Sir Bedevere, TheAceLucario, UltiMario

Thank you.
 

UltiMario

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Fight/Ice

I'm not letting this Kecleon cop-out win this.
Fight/Ice is cool.
It's also programmable on Shoddy without extreme pain.
 

Circa

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Fighting / Ice - 9
Normal / ??? - 10

I realize someone voted after the deadline, but I guess I'll let that slide.
The score is actually 9-9.

If you look at who voted for mine, there are only 9, despite mine saying it's ten.

XACE-K sent me a message about it (which is how I know) and told me what he THINKS it is, but I'm still not entirely sure what it is. He said that for whatever reason, it seems as though guests can vote.

Which I personally think is really dumb if it's true, but whatevs.
 

Terywj [태리]

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The score is actually 9-9.

If you look at who voted for mine, there are only 9, despite mine saying it's ten.

XACE-K sent me a message about it (which is how I know) and told me what he THINKS it is, but I'm still not entirely sure what it is. He said that for whatever reason, it seems as though guests can vote.

Which I personally think is really dumb if it's true, but whatevs.
Interesting. Very well things are tied at 9/9.

charmander1065, Metal~Mario, Sir Bedevere, TheAceLucario are the remaining members.
 

Tacel

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Fighting/Ice seems more interesting. That's what I vote for.
 

Sir Bedevere

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Normal/???, because I like the potential this concept could have, and I don't think it'd be worth deciding the entire concept on just Swinub (though we could give it Ice Shard too, it just likely won't get STAB on it anytime soon).
 

Wave⁂

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Now that's just silly.

I propose we have an OU, UU, and Uber battle between the two factions.
 

UltiMario

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So Clownbot, flyinfilipino, Greenstreet, Majority, mood4food77, Moozle, roacherman, RocketPSIence, Writer Kupo, UltiMario, charmander1065, and TheAceLucario
vs.
annoying1359, CRASHiC, Riddle, Risque, rockem7, SpiredMoth, ss118, Terywj, The Wrath of Koarin, Sir Bedevere, and Metal~Mario?

I'd take that bet, but Art is on your team.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Now that's just silly.

I propose we have an OU, UU, and Uber battle between the two factions.
So Clownbot, flyinfilipino, Greenstreet, Majority, mood4food77, Moozle, roacherman, RocketPSIence, Writer Kupo, UltiMario, charmander1065, and TheAceLucario
vs.
annoying1359, CRASHiC, Riddle, Risque, rockem7, SpiredMoth, ss118, Terywj, The Wrath of Koarin, Sir Bedevere, and Metal~Mario?

I'd take that bet, but Art is on your team.
Har har. I'll VM Spire.
 
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