Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[ArtfulHobbes]

Two videos I will link here today. More were uploaded as well but here are 2 favourites.

This was a best of 3 set between myself and @Reserved. This was also some of the most fun I have had with this mode to date. We both got our fair share of 0-deaths in this video so go ahead and give it a watch!

The second one was also between myself and Reserved. And it's getting popular by the hour.

Please watch this one. It's funny XD. Also, Etika commented on the video so I'm popular now!

On a side note, @ SaturnFrost I'm gonna disagree with Kong Cyclone being tested. We have seen plenty of videos already where this Custom is just spammed and the player wins. Not to mention DK already has everything that he needs. Combos, his nair to get out of combos, and his Up-B has an insane horizontal range for recovery anyways.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

That Ganon/Villager set is probably one of the best showcases of SLHG I've seen yet. Villager can apply crazy amounts of pressure it seems.

I'd like to try to get some videos recorded myself, I might be able to do that at a friend's place tomorrow. It'd be great if we could get some more footage out there simply showing potential character options and stuff. I have some Wario stuff I want to record that's not necessarily all that impressive, but could be used as a starting point for fleshing out his meta game for potential Wario players.

 

[Marachii]

Still here, folks! Learning to take advantage of Falcon's ridic grab game.

 

[ZADD]

Sonic isn't all that bad IMO

 

[Muro]

Two videos I will link here today. More were uploaded as well but here are 2 favourites.

This was a best of 3 set between myself and @Reserved. This was also some of the most fun I have had with this mode to date. We both got our fair share of 0-deaths in this video so go ahead and give it a watch!

The second one was also between myself and Reserved. And it's getting popular by the hour.

Please watch this one. It's funny XD. Also, Etika commented on the video so I'm popular now!

Sonic isn't all that bad IMO

Such great matches guys, gonna put them in the OP. I think I'm gonna pick up sonic lol, he seems so fun to play.

edit: this match is also great.

Seems like a nightmare matchup for falcon.

 

[nannerham]

I came across this the other day I dont know whether you guys have seen this or not but its a great way to beat dongnado (if its legal or not) I found it interesting and i was wondering if it works in SLHG I cant test because I only have 1 working controller ;-;

 

[ZADD]

This was a best of 3 set between myself and @Reserved. This was also some of the most fun I have had with this mode to date.

Amazing set, its so nice to see some consistent competitive gameplay!

Here's another combo video I made, Short n sweet.

My friends are finally able to keep up with me in SLHG, hopefully we each get better as we all improve.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Amazing set, its so nice to see some consistent competitive gameplay!

Here's another combo video I made, Short n sweet.

My friends are finally able to keep up with me in SLHG, hopefully we each get better as we all improve.

Hey man awesome combo video!

The next thing I'm gonna do for the SLHG Meta is record a video of who can reach Battlefields platforms in a single full-hop, and who can reach the top platform with a double jump.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Two videos I will link here today. More were uploaded as well but here are 2 favourites.

This was a best of 3 set between myself and @Reserved. This was also some of the most fun I have had with this mode to date. We both got our fair share of 0-deaths in this video so go ahead and give it a watch!

The second one was also between myself and Reserved. And it's getting popular by the hour.

Please watch this one. It's funny XD. Also, Etika commented on the video so I'm popular now!

On a side note, @ SaturnFrost I'm gonna disagree with Kong Cyclone being tested. We have seen plenty of videos already where this Custom is just spammed and the player wins. Not to mention DK already has everything that he needs. Combos, his nair to get out of combos, and his Up-B has an insane horizontal range for recovery anyways.

Sounds good to me (and many others apparently). I just don't want to be thought of as a hypocrite for advocating for 1 characters attack while not giving another's a chance.
With that said, I love seeing Ganons down B into Up B in action as a recovery option ^_^

 

[blargh257]

Still here, folks! Learning to take advantage of Falcon's ridic grab game.

O god, why me...
That's my Mii Brawler and from what I remember that game didn't go awfully but that stock definitely did.
On another note, Mii Brawler's grab and combo game are absurd. He has the Palutena chain throw or Mario combo depending on DI off of down throw. The only problem is killing because Helicopter Kick is too absurd to be legal.

 

[SaturnFrost]

gg to player MrGrimloch over at Artful's stream ...As much as I hated fighting against it, you opened my eyes to how much respect I still have to give shields. Much appreciated for the sparring session

 

[ZADD]

So I have a few things to say about:

• Sonic pressure game is insane, for real he gets GUARANTEED tech chases on everyone, you should be scared.
• His Up-B is actually really lenient for ledge-snaps. But it requires correct timing, because he can't snap during the middle frames of the animation.
• The lowered height on Spring Jump is actually both a Buff and a Nerf. The fact that Sonic only goes 1 jump's height turns it into a massive zoning tool, especially for edge-guarding. This is emphasized by him being able to act out of it, for example in neutral: Up-B > N-air is unbelievably safe. You can use the Spring's hitbox to retract, or Fast-fall the N-air to set up for an U-smash. Pretty cool.
• Grounding a spring on the edge can allow Sonic to fight off-stage! Bouncing gives insane height, and doesn't use your second jump. Up-B > bounce > F-air > Side-B (hold for a second) > Jump > Up-B
• Side-B jump canceling for the most part nullifies Sonic's lack of recovery, but of course he's still very vulnerable vertically. (He's a Diddy/Little Mac type character, ie. overwhelming aggressive capabilities, but weak defensive ones.)
• If Sonic's recovery functioned normally, he'd no doubt be a lot more campy, and a lot less technical in SLHG. I actually like what Heavy Gravity does to Sonic...
• U-air doesn't kill until ~190%, so Sonic relies on tech-chase punishes and gimps to kill. D-throw forces a tech, and is your best option for setting up an U-smash or Pivot F-smash.

 

[Muro]

@ ArtfulHobbes you have a stream? give me the link to put in the OP. Do you stream regularly?

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

@ ArtfulHobbes you have a stream? give me the link to put in the OP. Do you stream regularly?

I do. http://www.twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

I don't stream too often right now, but hopefully I'll get more into it once I get a nice setup working.

Edit: After much fiddling around I should have a decent working setup now!

Edit 2: Ladies and Gentleman, a 5 minute long Captain Falcon Combo video is in the works.
Get Hyped.

Edit 3: Somebody post after me... I got a very special video ready to be unveiled.

 

[SaturnFrost]

I do. http://www.twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

I don't stream too often right now, but hopefully I'll get more into it once I get a nice setup working.

Edit: After much fiddling around I should have a decent working setup now!

Edit 2: Ladies and Gentleman, a 5 minute long Captain Falcon Combo video is in the works.
Get Hyped.

Edit 3: Somebody post after me... I got a very special video ready to be unveiled.

Filler Post

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Ladies and Gentleman. After working on it all day and recording for a long time, I have managed to make my very first combo video called: "The Beast is Back." It is a Smash 4 SLHG Captain Falcon Combo Video.

I am very proud of this and would love to see it being shared to as many places as possible because if there is anything that gets people hyped, it's Falcon combos.

Enjoy.

 

[ZADD]

I have managed to make my very first combo video called: "The Beast is Back." It is a Smash 4 SLHG Captain Falcon Combo Video.

Amazing video, and great showing of SLHG! I'm planning on doing the same thing for Doc soon...

This replay was... I honestly don't know. But I though it was worth sharing here.

 

[Solutionme]

So what is stopping the meta aside the stat buff from the badges? It still counts as equipment so it seems that way, but i just wandered in here cause i think some people are hacking this into for glory.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

So what is stopping the meta aside the stat buff from the badges? It still counts as equipment so it seems that way, but i just wandered in here cause i think some people are hacking this into for glory.

Whats stopping the Meta? Interest. There is no interest in this mode yet. I guarantee if a famous YouTuber or Smash player started showing interest and started covering it then we would be seeing larger numbers... but until then. Nothing. If anything big were to happen, my guess is it would happen after EVO. Also the stat buffs and debuffs are so minuscule it's unnoticeable. And people have been hacking For Glory for a while now... but I don't know how they would hack in the heavy gravity?

 

[Solutionme]

Whats stopping the Meta? Interest. There is no interest in this mode yet. I guarantee if a famous YouTuber or Smash player started showing interest and started covering it then we would be seeing larger numbers... but until then. Nothing. If anything big were to happen, my guess is it would happen after EVO. Also the stat buffs and debuffs are so minuscule it's unnoticeable. And people have been hacking For Glory for a while now... but I don't know how they would hack in the heavy gravity?

Thank you, I do believe this would make for a much better meta along with customs but personally I feel the stat buffs are something that might stop it completely. If there was a way to convince Sakurai to disable the stat buffs (which to be honest should not be very difficult to code in) would probably make it worthwhile, or rather just make a mode all on its own. However I feel the other issue that might stop it is the fact that for glory doesn't really use this without playing with friends or so it would seem. Anyways, thanks for the response, I'm sure whoever this person I went against was using some sort of turbo hack, though I still won most of my fights, but constant perfect shields and techs from stage spiking is a bit absurd. Also to add on, another thing stopping it might be the annoyance of going out of the way to unlock the badges for the effects. Though I completely agree that the smooth lander helps characters with terrible landing lag on moves such as DK and Charizard who have crappy options to return to the stage and the heavy gravity not only helps combos but improves the combo game and punish game of all characters, making it feel melee-esque especially because air dodge becomes even more situational.

 

[ZADD]

Thank you, I do believe this would make for a much better meta along with customs but personally I feel the stat buffs are something that might stop it completely.

Also to add on, another thing stopping it might be the annoyance of going out of the way to unlock the badges for the effects.

Stat changes are unnoticeable until -5 or +5, meaning the build we use has regular stats. Stat buffs aren't an issue at all.

I've unlocked SLHG on more than 3 systems, and it's never taken me more than 15 minutes. Just suck it up and use hammers. From a TO perspective, SLHG would be one of the easiest tournaments to set up. No CRT's, and no custom moves to farm for/transfer. (except Duck Hunt)

 

[Muro]

Yeah there's nothing logistically hard, or broken from a gameplay perspective, that would prevent this from having a healthy metagame. All that we're missing is some publicity and then tournaments.

To me though, it doesn't even matter. I've had so much fun playing this, I'm just glad I have other people to play with.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Coin Battles.

 

[Muro]

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Coin Battles.

I could, but coin battles wouldn't generate the hype SLHG would. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. SLHG is insane even at low level, imagine what it could be at high level.

 

[Solutionme]

Stat changes are unnoticeable until -5 or +5, meaning the build we use has regular stats. Stat buffs aren't an issue at all.

I've unlocked SLHG on more than 3 systems, and it's never taken me more than 15 minutes. Just suck it up and use hammers. From a TO perspective, SLHG would be one of the easiest tournaments to set up. No CRT's, and no custom moves to farm for/transfer. (except Duck Hunt)

Oh I didn't really know how much it gives, I guess it'd be pretty interesting, so maybe it could be an alternate form of meta? I know people wouldn't be willing to just leave normal game mechanics especially since Sakurai would be doing any balancing around the normal mechanics only. But yeah I know SLHG is good cause I've seen it on RealCarterer's channel.

 

[ZADD]

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Coin Battles.

Coin isn't what people associate with Smash tho. SLHG is still the same ruleset just a slight modified engine, same intentions as what Project M did to Brawl. This time it's available in-game tho.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Coin isn't what people associate with Smash tho. SLHG is still the same ruleset just a slight modified engine, same intentions as what Project M did to Brawl. This time it's available in-game tho.

SLHG isn't what I associate with Smash, either.

 

[NatP]

To be fair, coin matches have been around for a long time now and we already know at this point those don't work while SLHG really is just something new and fresh we're trying out and having fun with.

Could it lead to a better and healthier metagame than vanilla smash 4? I think so, but the only way we'd ever know for sure is by actually trying it out in big tournaments and stuff and seeing how it'd develop.

But yeah, to echo what others have said, I don't really care either way, I'm finally having so much fun with Smash 4 after being so frustrated with it and that's all that matters to me.

 

[ZADD]

SLHG isn't what I associate with Smash, either.

I remember a lot of people having similar sentiments about Project M, and its competitive viability as a mod. Oh how things change..

Project M proves that with enough community support, any iteration of Smash could be respected. SLHG's gameplay speaks for itself I'd say.

Edited: Speaking of gameplay, here is that Doc montage I was talking about! Hope you guys like it.

 

[Muro]

SLHG isn't what I associate with Smash, either.

Well, what I associate with smash as a whole is 2 things mainly:

1. Combos that are not set in stone.
2. You can die at 0 or at 200. Mostly accomplished through edgeguarding.

Those 2 characteristics are very well represented in SLHG imo.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Speaking of gameplay, here is that Doc montage I was talking about! Hope you guys like it.

Too many strings. Not enough actual combos.
Not enough kills.
Not Melee. This mode sucks.
...
Nah I kid.

Thats a very good combo video! I also like the inclusion of "2pill4me". I added a similar text piece somewhere in my combo video if you want to go on a hunt to find it... (it's pretty easy to spot) But yeah don't sleep on the Doc. Well done Zadd.

Also, I'll probably be streaming tonight if anybody wants to hop on in for some online matches.

 

[micstar615]

SLHG isn't what I associate with Smash, either.

People can associate smash with whatever they find enjoyable from it.

 

[ZADD]

Thats a very good combo video! ...yeah don't sleep on the Doc.

Thanks, I'll do a Palutena one next. I have some beastly off-stage D-airs

1. Combos that are not set in stone.
2. You can die at 0 or at 200. Mostly accomplished through edgeguarding.

You know, I hate to be all SLHG vs. Vanilla... But I feel these points are pretty weakly represented in regular Sm4sh.

1. The only combos you see in Vanilla are the ones set in stone. The engine barely allows any free-form, hell even Brawl had grab setups! (Auto-cancels dictate aerials, No dash-dancing, everyone does the same combos Hoo-Hah)
2. Everyone having an amazing recovery, coupled with the removal of ledge-hogging, made point #2 either non-existent or very rare in my experience... Air-dodge baits and that's about it. Even in ZeRo's montages...

SLHG addresses both of these observations, and IMO readjusts SSB4 to be more reminiscent of its own franchise.
(Not just like Melee. More like 64, Melee and Brawl!)

 

[VeggieSteel]

everyone does the same combos Hoo-Hah)

True that. The more vanilla smash 4 I watch, the more sick I get of seeing down throw --> up air for the kill over and over.




Great to see combo videos starting to appear! I think when people start seeing more and more hype stuff like that, the more they'll be willing to make our little engine modification and give it a try themselves.

I won't have much free time to play for the next couple months, but it looks like you guys are stepping it up more and more, and that's awesome.


I have done some lab work with Tornado Hold, and I feel like it's offensive properties make it a more useful move than I originally anticipated. I believe it can true combo into bair at killing percents, but the way it launches seems to be hard to predict. It also makes for a sick edge guarding tool, because placing a giant, transcendent hitbox offstage is really potent when every character doesn't have a ridiculous recovery.
Megaman in general has a very strong off stage game, with fair, nair, angled metal blades, and his projectile dair spike. I suspect many of his kills in SLHG will come from gimps.

 

[nannerham]

Welp gg's to savvy i got boped, his mewtwo is a freak of nature. I really need to mix up my landing options and still learn to respect sheilds but I had a great time. I do a have a great match i saved and wondering if any1 with a capture card could look at it if they were interested.

EDIT: Thanks art feel free to commentate over the match if you feel like it.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Welp gg's to savvy i got boped, his mewtwo is a freak of nature. I really need to mix up my landing options and still learn to respect sheilds but I had a great time. I do a have a great match i saved and wondering if any1 with a capture card could look at it if they were interested.

Game Capture you say? I got you my man. I'll even provide my own commentary if thats what you would like.

Also. Imma stream. twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

 

[Muro]

@ Tornado_Man I saw you posting in the online thread. Unfortunately that thread didn't do so well and is kinda dead. Post here if you want a match, or check the chat on smashladder.

 

[Tornado_Man]

@ Tornado_Man I saw you posting in the online thread. Unfortunately that thread didn't do so well and is kinda dead. Post here if you want a match, or check the chat on smashladder.

Alright. Gotcha.

 

[ZADD]

Hey so....

Who else is maining Roy in SLHG?

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I will definitely consider it, if he turns out viable. I've always preferred my boy to Marth, and if he's anything like PM Roy (versus the Melee version) he could be seriously fun to use.