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You have to be an idiot to get killed by F-Tilt because...Ike has no projectile but Snake does and Snake is a great camper. He has a lot of moves that can finish Ike, especially the up tilt, forward tilt and possibly the F smash since Ike is laggy. They both have bad air games but overall I think Ike has better air games and a powerful meteor smash. If he's brought up to air, he could have some time to air dodge Ike since Ike has sluggish air games like Snake but if Snake is brought off stage, he'll use his high but easy to edgeguard recovery. Snake can easily punish Ike on ground a lot but not on air but if whoever
is playing as Snake is cautious about getting brought up to air, I guess Ike is in bad disadvantage.
55:45 Snake or 60:40 Snake
What sucks is that Snake's UTilt out-ranges our UTilt .Tilts are a freaking pain in the rear. I mean, Ike has the same strength in his tilts, but at least 3 times the wind up and Snake's tilts ever so slightly out ranges our tilts? What the heck is that about?\
Oh.Out of all the matchups I have played throughout my Brawl career, Snake is the matchup I have the most experience with and the character that I'm most confident about playing. This is one of my favorite matchups.
Contrary to what Niddo said, I don't think DACIT doesn't come of real use here. If you pick up one of Snake's uncooked grenades, you have to start a running animation and use the right button configuration and throw it back at Snake within the 4 second span in which the grenade finally explodes. Not only that, if you pick up a grenade, Snake can simply pull out another nade, shield drop it, and as a result, it forces Ike to drop his grenade. This is called grenade stripping, and it's one of the main reasons why unless you normal throw a nade back at Snake, you can't use Snake's projectiles to your advantage. Snake can grenade strip you and prevent you from throwing it back at him if you pick it up within the last two seconds before you throw it back at him, or he can force the nade to fall down straight away from its trajectory by "stripping" a grenade. I recommend throwing nades normally if he throws an uncooked grenade at you as DACIT requires you to start a running animation and input the button configuration correctly.
In close quarters combat, I think Snake has the advantage slightly over Ike here. Although Ike has his jab cancels, Snake's jab, tilts, and nades really do give him the advantage here. His jab follows up are amazing, and the range of his tilts as well as his nades really do force you to not be reckless in rushing in. Know when he'll slam past you with his DACUS when you try to approach him outside of his nade camping. Predict it, and either grab him out of the animation, or shield it and punish him with a dash attack out of the landing lag of the Usmash. Ike has several things going for him in this matchup though. For one thing, most of Ike's grabs/throws, if not all, put Snake into a bad position. Up throw/Down throw puts Snake up into the air, a place where Snake is pretty vulnerable. Grab -> Grab release -> Dash attack, Fthrow or Bthrow can throw Snake offstage, another place where his recovery makes him vulnerable. Bthrow offstage to Fair particularly is useful, but make sure to know when your opponent catches onto this and saves his second jump. Watch out when he tries to trick you into getting too close though. Many Snakes like to save their second jump when they know they can get back onto the stage with it and they like to use their Uair, or Nair when they try to get back onto the stage. Space yourself, and use your Ftilt or Fair to punish his aerials. Another advantage that I wish to reiterate are Ike's jab cancels. Snake is one of Brawl's heaviest characters so you can jab cancel Snake with the jab jab -> canceling fairly easily. You can also follow up your jabs with Ike's grabs for even more damage.
In terms of your moveset, all of Ike's up moves are very helpful. Usmash, Utilt, and Uair all work fantastic against Ike. Since Snake is a slow faller, fast falling your Uair while he's trying to get onto the stage works great against his aerial dodge. Utilt is great for punishing Snake's Nair if he misses and jab -> Utilt works decently. Usmash is great for punishing Snake's aerial dodges and works pretty well for those "clutch" kills. For approaches, you'll want to never approach with Fair when Snake can shield it, especially at high percentages. Even spacing Fair perfectly is punishable by Snake's incredible range with his tilts. Use it mainly when Snake is in the air and if you don't hit him with it, fast fall immediately and get ready for Snake's counterattack. Retreating Fair however works great if you can't get close enough to Snake because he's using his shield nade defense. Retreating Fair also punishes careless DACUSes. Nair, Bair, or shield dashing work pretty well for approaches. Don't be afraid to abuse Nair to juggle Snake if he's in the air and he's constantly trying to air dodge back safely onto the ground. Adding to what Brett said, try to ignore the nades he throws at you when you're approaching. What might make handling the nades easier is to know when they will explode. As I stated before, nades generally explode after 4 seconds. Shorthop aerial dodge also works sometimes as an approach as well. What Ike doesn't really want to do is to approach aerially unfortunately. Unless you mix up your approaches and use mindgames with your aerials, an aerial approach will be punished, hard. A ground approach mixed with some aerial approaches I think is the most effective.
Some other hints: Don't be afraid to get creative with your own methods of countering Snake's arsenal of projectiles. Some ideas that I've come up with is if I know when a nade will explode and I'm close to Snake and he's shielding, I use Counter so if he drops his shield right when his nade explodes, he'll get hit by my Counter or my Counter hits Snake's shield away far enough so he can't punish me. Countering his C4s and not hitting Snake also allows Ike to create the "wind hitbox" that iirc, Pierce7D mentioned. Also, don't be afraid to challenge Snake's nades sometimes, especially on stages with platforms. Although Snake limits what Ike can do with his moveset when he's shieldnading, there are some instances where you'll know that you'll hit Snake, even if he's holding a nade. I think the reason why most Ikes have trouble with this matchup is because they're afraid to mix up their game. Be creative, it'll honestly help out a lot. Bored did great against Razer's Snake, because he mixed his game up.
I like this one better.Juggle him and win.
Get camped and lose.
Voila.
I know about Grenadestripping. What I don't know is how long you have to be running. I think it's possible that if Snake throws both grenades without cooking, and Ike grabs the first one as Snake tosses the second one that he can DACIT in time and be safe by throwing it upwards.Contrary to what Niddo said, I don't think DACIT doesn't come of real use here. If you pick up one of Snake's uncooked grenades, you have to start a running animation and use the right button configuration and throw it back at Snake within the 4 second span in which the grenade finally explodes. Not only that, if you pick up a grenade, Snake can simply pull out another nade, shield drop it, and as a result, it forces Ike to drop his grenade. This is called grenade stripping, and it's one of the main reasons why unless you normal throw a nade back at Snake, you can't use Snake's projectiles to your advantage. Snake can grenade strip you and prevent you from throwing it back at him if you pick it up within the last two seconds before you throw it back at him, or he can force the nade to fall down straight away from its trajectory by "stripping" a grenade. I recommend throwing nades normally if he throws an uncooked grenade at you as DACIT requires you to start a running animation and input the button configuration correctly.
If you don't feel like jabbing, shield grab. The shield will slow Snake's slide down, giving you enough time to grab him.Okay. I kept trying to pivot grab and Bair and neither option worked.
I'll just jab next time.
and then beat the Snake player as he looks on in awe?
Although you may be able to DACIT > Counter, and have it trigger the counter. I think that'd be pretty epic and flashy looking, and MAYBE useful.
>_>I have yet to be 3 stocked by M2K (haven't played him) and I have yet to see recorded videos of his Ike, so I will assume I am correct. MogX's Ike is that good.
Also I figured you'd like to know this if you guys don't:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8344688#post8344688
I don't know how often any of you die because of jab -->nair buffer
60-40 is fine. Giving only a 10% advantage is being too lenient on us Ike mains. Besides, Snake mains have to be stupidly ******** to get gimped with their recover. Yes, you can proceed to do extra damage and knock back when they are recovering from offstage, or falling back onto stage, but gimping? Please...Ike has a better aerial game than snake and can easily gimp Snake's recovery. ike can jab cancel him easily due to snake's heavy weight and size. i think this is 55-45 Snake
No, Snake can land his KOing moves a lot easier then us, and his grenades force us to eventually approach. He has a noticeable advantage.♪ It feels more like 45-55 Snake to me. Only thing that gives Snake the extra edge would be him able to camp us along with his annoying mines. The way that Snake can gimp us with would be his projectiles, which has a chance to hit and a chance to miss. †