Snake Matchup(Updated 04/05/09)

[gallax]

will add.

10snakematchups

 

[supermario27mx]

dontcha think that we should run this through the snake boards and get some imput from them in the interest of getting another perspective

 

[Electric-Sachiel]

I just need to make a comment in this thread. Most of the tips that Galaxy has listed here work really well and i plan to look through that huge description.

But i have to say. That youtube vid that was posted in that "HELPFUL VID" section does not look very helpful at all. That Snake that ESAM battles sucks......hard......
That is not how a Snake should play seriously. Whatever that Snake was doing in that vid was not how a good Snake player would act. And further more many of those moves that ESAM used in that vid would never work on an experienced Snake player....

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

lol its an old video. I don't have a recent video.

 

[gallax]

lol. he doesnt know who siebrik is. he is only the best player in florida and esam is the best pika in florida who can **** any snake he wants to because he is so experienced in this matchup. come on esam. this is the one time where you deserve the credit for beating the s**t out of someone and in style.

 

[napZzz]

snakes nades have a 4 second timer

 

[neji32]

if he ever tries to do the short hop nair thing, you can dsmash, it beats that aerial......i think it beats all his aerials

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If he SHs a nair you can just shield it then run and CG him.

 

[SuSa]

OP isn't updated or.... you guys know that snake's grenades timer is 3 seconds... right?


EDIT:

Nappy, remember someone (i think ken neth) showed us a video... proved it was 3 seconds...

EDIT2:

"His dtilt is used more for damage racking"

lulz.... you say you main Snake as well?...... I rarely see anyone dtilt <_< ever.... in no way is it a damage racker..

EDIT3:

You also may want to mention Snake's dthrow tech chase...

 

[gallax]

like i said. if someone does use it, its only for damage racking and thats it. i didnt say it was used often. you know how many times my tilts have been staled and i baited a person into rolling towards me with a nade? i often dtilt. it is used. and im updating the OP.

also, i wrote this when i first started using snake. i didnt say i was a master in any way. let me see what i can fix.


*******I have updated the OP. I fixed the nade timer and added in a new section about grabbing and clarified the dtilt usage**********************************

 

[stealth3654]

From what I've read, you didn't add that Snake can grab while holding a nade.

 

[gallax]

From what I've read, you didn't add that Snake can grab while holding a nade.

oh dang. totally forgot about that. thanks man. i am adding that now.

i also added how he can pull out another nade while hes holding one and the potential of that.

 

[Nicholas1024]

So, what's this mean for the matchup ratio?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yo, add stuff about the new CG. It definitely helps.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think it's already in there

 

[gallax]

im gonna put in all the cg's in the OP of the matchup thread. this way it wont get confusing and easier for everyone.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

well most people would just look for the characters more than the actual thread

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, I would mention CGs in each character's thread if they have one(s) relevant to them.

I know it's a pain to remember to update them every time they change, but it's more helpful that way.... and ESAM's right: most people are going to look at the individual characters' threads, not read the general matchup OP.

 

[neji32]

Rolling behind snake is very stupid. And we need a different vid. that snake sucked
No offense ESAM you did good but you cant help someone with a vid of you gimping them so early. This helps no one understand what to do.

 

[KayLo!]

Rolling behind snake is very stupid.

Yeah, I catch a lot of ftilts with my rolling problem. And even a few fsmashes when they (a.k.a. K 9) predict me..... definitely not good.

But I think Gallax was saying you should roll behind the first time to watch their reaction. He mostly stressed being unpredictable.

Gallax, this is extremely nitpicky, but the blue font you use for that one line ("The key lesson is to un-predictable out of the dthrow.") is REALLY hard to read. x.x At least it is on my computer.....

 

[~Kyte]

tjolt spamming ****s up his grenade game, like just spamming b... it sounds scrubish but they have much more trouble getting their nades out and camping... makes approaching for him tough aswell

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I actually played a good camping snake yesterday, and it was basically even. My T-jolts would stop his grenades, but they would never get to him...

 

[Stealth Raptor]

thats the point though is to stop the grenades. doesnt have to hit him.

 

[SuSa]

The snake should have found a way to throw them higher then, then grenade strip it.

Snake can get around TJolt spam, it just takes a while or your spacing for the spam to be off just a little. (aka; being a little to far)

 

[gallax]

ok so i changed the blue color to teal so that it is easier to read. i also just highlighted an important section in the grab section about not rolling behind ever again after rolling behind snake for the first time.

 

[neji32]

Dont camp with snake. Dodge a couple and go for a shield grab(or if your close enough for him to not react in time normal grab). Its easy to grab a nade spamming snake

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well most snakes don't normally spam mindlessly. They can take out a grenade and then shield grab you since snakes grab range is bigger than ours...trust me you need to approach smart. If you try to fair grab, the grenade will blow you up...so yeah its a pain in the ***.

 

[ScAtt77]

Er im not sure if this was already said, but did anybody else know that Snake's jab actually cancels Pikachu's T-jolt, making his life somewhat easier?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

that still breifly stops his grenade camping and allows us to get in. his ftilt also takes out tjolts lol

 

[KayLo!]

Dont camp with snake. Dodge a couple and go for a shield grab(or if your close enough for him to not react in time normal grab). Its easy to grab a nade spamming snake

Well most snakes don't normally spam mindlessly. They can take out a grenade and then shield grab you since snakes grab range is bigger than ours...trust me you need to approach smart. If you try to fair grab, the grenade will blow you up...so yeah its a pain in the ***.

I usually go for what Neji said.... I get so bored playing the camp game, I end up just running past the grenades and grabbing him.

Yeah, Snake's grab range is larger than ours, but if you tjolt smartly as you come forward, he'll usually throw a nade at you.... and you can run in and grab him in the cooldown lag. The nade will bounce off of you, and if anything, the slide from the grab will carry you out of its hitbox range.

If he doesn't throw the nade, just keep camping until he has to throw it or risk getting blown up, I guess, although sometimes I just take the explosion if I don't have too much damage. If anything, that usually lets me start a uair combo and stay close so he doesn't start camping again.

That's just me, though.... because I absolutely hate camp shenanigans.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If the snake is as smart as you are you won't get in unless they **** up, which is rare. Snakes overpowering F-tilt will make it too difficult to get in, since we are scared of getting hit by it. Its REALLY hard to get in to a good snake...trust me, i played one in tournament saturday...its crazy.

 

[gallax]

thats why this matchup should be called mindgames of mindgames. who knows whats going to happen?

 

[Razek]

After fighting snake over and over and over again I really have to say it has to be in snakes favor. I say this for one major reason. There is no safe way to approach snake. If he plays SAFE and doesn't allow a punish you pretty much can't approach without taking damage. Gimping a smart snake isn't easy but is possible,but i highly doubt it happening against a *good* snake. What finally made me say SNAKE>PIKACHU is that his tilt just beats all your approaches. His pivot grab will just laugh at your grabs. You can sometimes dash in with a Nair if you time it PERFECT with a tjolt and try to drive by them. But even then all they need to do his hold shield. So like Esam said 5 tilts and then he can kill you not to mention his tech chase into them. You on average can start killing him at about 150%,but he kills you with a fresh Utilt at about 100%. Plus the keyword is his Utlit is so safe. Ftilt even beats a perfect spaced forward smash. So basically a good snake playing safe is $%#@ stupid.

I think this fight is 60-40 in snakes favor.
It would be a lot worse if we didn't have a CG.

 

[King~]

i disagree with the above post

you shouldnt be dieng to a uptilt at 100% granted it can happen, you shouldnt though lol.

from my expriences approching snake is just a game of rock-paper-scissors

also when snake is coming back to the ground he SHOULD be taking some sort of damage. just measure his options a pick a way to counter it, we have mutiple choices.

thats just me though, i personnaly think its 55-45 pika.but 50-50 is fine though

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pivot Grabbing is too good lol. They make the match winnable for snake. If the snake is top notch and knows the matchup completely, 50-50. If not, its easily 60-40 pika.

 

[KayLo!]

I'm not gonna reiterate what people have already said, but the matchup is pretty even. We can definitely keep up with Snake.

 

[Razek]

I was in a hurry because someone was otw to go to the gym.... i ment to say 55:45 snake. And your prolly right it can be 50:50. As for the 100 % i dont die at that very often but after like one more jab tilt combo hes rdy to utilt. I guess ill have to spam more matches with snakes until something clicks im at that wall. If anyone can throw some tips PM me. Ill have to get some vids up on you tube for critiquing on the critique thread as well.
Basically i was just pissed at snake at the time I posted and needed to vent lol.
I played candys snake for a good like 4 hours and it just got frustrating to fight him when all his moves seemed so safe. I blame ftilt pivot grab and utilt for that.

Guess ill just have to fight snake over and over and over until its all learned =P