Snake Q&A

[Taeran]

....hmmmm...

I have no idea!

It could actually be useful if it existed.

hmmmm...

The replay could be helpful if you have it, and if you don't, but it isn't known, you could still make a thread.


Don't take my word for it because I have no idea. XD

 

[Bragi]

Yeah, I wish I had a replay/video of it. I don't have any recording equipment, unfortunately. But I bet someone out there has used it, with the amount of people who play characters with effective DAC's. Especially Snake, with all of the mind games, I figure someone's happened on to it. It seems like it could definitely be useful.

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

Oh that, I do that all the time. Great mindgames.

It's as easy as it sounds, dash one way, then DACUS the other. <____<; So you dash, switch the direction on your analog stick and dacus.

 

[Bragi]

That's cool. I wish I could find some videos somewhere in which people use it. It's definitely a crazy move.

 

[Black_Heretic]

what Lawmahbawls said, its nothing special, just for funzies

try to dacus out of a dashdance XD mad fun

 

[Bragi]

I don't know, I never thought the dash dance in Brawl was too useful, maybe it's just me. But the pivoted DACUS seems to offer some advantages over a normal DACUS, primarily in that it seems to be better for closer opponents, ie, the short pivot reduces the distance covered by the move, thus effectively "eliminating" part of the startup animation, which seems so risky to me in a standard DACUS. (Then again, I play Wolf, maybe this isn't as much of a problem with Snake).

I also didn't see anything on this in the various Snake (or Wolf) guides, though I might have overlooked them. It seems it might be worthwhile to mention the technique in such guides.

 

[Black_Heretic]

first off, I said it was fun, not useful dash dance sucks in brawl

And a pivoted DACUS has no advantages over a regular one, its just good for a retreat or mindgame

also, its not in the guide because its common sense >.>

 

[Taeran]

Bowser is god tier because of his dashdance.

 

[Bragi]

And a pivoted DACUS has no advantages over a regular one, its just good for a retreat or mindgame

also, its not in the guide because its common sense >.>

It still seems to me that it's comparable in usefulness to a reverse boost grab, in that it offers different spacing options to an already valuable maneuver (in addition to said mindgame use).

And apparently it's not common sense, because I still haven't been answered about this on the Wolf board. People have a hard enough time getting the hang of the DACUS, judging by the guide topics on the subject.

 

[DZhou]

What the best way to deal with a projectile-spam TL?

 

[-Ran]

Power Shield. + Cooking a grenade + walking forwards.

 

[cycon365]

This might be a general Question, but I was doing some Wi-fi (it's fun, why not)

and as I was in the Waiting room, I shielded from a crouch, and snake actually ducked into his shield

so I shielded while standing and he stood straight up

am I just slow for not noticing this or is there some advantage to snakes position within the shield?

 

[luke_atyeo]

I can answer that question (its fun why not?)
cos its ****
and I have no idea what this shield business is, where's havokk lol

 

[misterpimp5757]

havokk is probably working on the new war tactics video thingy....or hes working on the DI video...or hes sick again....or hes taking a vacation lolz. oh well guess we have to answer the questions around here.

what do you mean by "ducked into shield"?

 

[Taeran]

The only thing I can think of is avoiding shield pokes.

Death to shield pokes.

I think it means crouching IN your shield.

 

[cycon365]

I think it means crouching IN your shield.

Pretty much, I avoided saying "Crouching" because I didn't want people to think of snake shielding while prone (which would rock)

EDIT: okay, not really crouching...but more like, he's "hunched" in his shield

I can provide snapshots if I'm failing at explaining

 

[misterpimp5757]

new question: would this be probably an advanced tech chase? (with the dgrabs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZGCmBUAZg&feature=channel_page

2nd question: watch at 2:25 m2k is the red mk...could that be a weakness for us snakes in c4 recovery?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_j6nRZt32U&feature=channel_page

 

[misterpimp5757]

one more question lol...i saw that cypher destruction recovery...i tried it...i didnt work.

do they need to actually hit it? i made the cypher bump into them and that didnt work.

 

[Morningstar]

I only read up to page 14 so if this question has been answered already, my apologies.

I'm having a reaaally hard time fighting banana-happy Diddy's. Aside from using their naners against them and or throwing them off the level, how can I successfully fight a competent Diddy?

 

[cycon365]

yet another interesting Q.
oh wait, durr, makes sense, disregard the Q

EDIT: oh forget it, i'll ask anyway

Link used his Dair and was about to spike me when I pulled out my cypher in time.

I wanted to assume cypher was an anti-spike machine, but then I remembered Cypher can withstand alot fo attacks.

So TL Dair is one of them?

 

[Taeran]

@1 yes.

@2 I don't have time.

(masterpimp)

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

I only read up to page 14 so if this question has been answered already, my apologies.

I'm having a reaaally hard time fighting banana-happy Diddy's. Aside from using their naners against them and or throwing them off the level, how can I successfully fight a competent Diddy?

See the match up thread, should be a few topics below this one.

Pretty much, I avoided saying "Crouching" because I didn't want people to think of snake shielding while prone (which would rock)

EDIT: okay, not really crouching...but more like, he's "hunched" in his shield

I can provide snapshots if I'm failing at explaining

You are just pointing your shield down, the character inside the shield moves when you move your shield so it looks like he is hunching when pointed down.

yet another interesting Q.
oh wait, durr, makes sense, disregard the Q

EDIT: oh forget it, i'll ask anyway

Link used his Dair and was about to spike me when I pulled out my cypher in time.

I wanted to assume cypher was an anti-spike machine, but then I remembered Cypher can withstand alot fo attacks.

So TL Dair is one of them?

Depends on when you are hit with TL's Dair. He won't spike if he uses the Dair too early, but if he waits it will spike. I think it will bounce you off the cypher.

 

[hand]

Are there Characters, that counter Snake?

 

[Taeran]

obviously.

Look at the matchups thread.

 

[lanky_gunner]

yet another interesting Q.
oh wait, durr, makes sense, disregard the Q

EDIT: oh forget it, i'll ask anyway

Link used his Dair and was about to spike me when I pulled out my cypher in time.

I wanted to assume cypher was an anti-spike machine, but then I remembered Cypher can withstand alot fo attacks.

So TL Dair is one of them?

As said before, it depends on the timing of the hit. The cypher can withstand a lot of damage, but I've had moments when I was spiked out of the cypher, as well as spiking those who use the cypher.

 

[_Yes!_]

Are there Characters, that counter Snake?

No one hard counters Snake. The only character that I can think of that beats Snake is Metaknight.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No one hard counters Snake. The only character that I can think of that beats Snake is Metaknight.

DDD makes the match up difficult for snake. Mostly for the Chaingrabbing I believe. Everything else to me seems sort of even.

Snake outcamps DDD mostly because it is just a pain to camp against snake with cooked grenades and such. Waddle Dees & Doos can take the missle and grenade blasts.

Ftilt with DDD is great as it beats out snakes range. Anything closer and I think DDD can shieldgrab the attacks.

Once snake is offstage DDD can pretty much follow and make for certain that you get KOed.

Although Snake juggles DDD fairly well with his stage control abilities.



Now for an actual question: What videos are there of other decently played Snakes apart from the japanese and ally's vids?

 

[_Yes!_]

Snake beats dedede. Ban FD and you're already in much better shape. Vertical camping is amazing. Drop c4's and grenades from above. ddd can't do much about it. constantly run away from ddd and he can't grab you. without the grabs ddd is a giant target. if you're on the ground and ddd gets too close, mortar slide away and continue throwing stuff at him. edgeguarding ddd is easy and fun. if he doesn't go for the ledge, hit him with a nair. if he goes for the ledge, either edgehog or stage spike him by running off and bairing. nikita is dumb because it leaves snake open to get grabbed.

Also this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXh3Yh30Fc&feature=related

 

[Taeran]

Chillin has a very good snake.

This is only at crystal.

Why did you leave MoC?
I just want a reason, because we miss you.

 

[misterpimp5757]

do you think we snakes should have online tourneys?

like we do it about once a month or every once in a while.

but idk if that would be fun since snake dittos can be the most annoying thing.

 

[_Yes!_]

omg snake dittos are so dumb...LOOK AT THE VARIETY OF FTILTS!

 

[luke_atyeo]

I has a question, dk is supossed to counter snake but every dk I've ever vsed I pwned
why does dk have an advantage?

 

[IxxI]

I has a question, dk is supossed to counter snake but every dk I've ever vsed I pwned
why does dk have an advantage?

He has about the same range and is a little bit faster and has a really gay cargo kill. Kills snake at about 0%. And he is like the king of the meteor smash.

 

[Taeran]

He has about the same range and is a little bit faster and has a really gay cargo kill. Kills snake at about 0%. And he is like the king of the meteor smash.

lol, tis true!

omg snake dittos are so dumb...LOOK AT THE VARIETY OF FTILTS!

In contrast, Ike dittos are very fun. So much counter-punishing...

Only n00bs use ftilt. Real men use the second hit of ftilt.

 

[_Yes!_]

I has a question, dk is supossed to counter snake but every dk I've ever vsed I pwned
why does dk have an advantage?

Snake RAAAAAPES DK. Snake can outcamp DK, and if DK ever gets close, Snake can either ftilt or boostsmash away. A smart Snake won't get hit by Dk's slow moves. Dk's like DDD without a chaingrab essentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L65FvnQcp4&feature=channel_page

 

[Tero.]

Snake RAAAAAPES DK. Snake can outcamp DK, and if DK ever gets close, Snake can either ftilt or boostsmash away. A smart Snake won't get hit by Dk's slow moves. Dk's like DDD without a chaingrab essentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L65FvnQcp4&feature=channel_page

lol i wouldn't say Snake ***** DK ... he can definitly do good against him but DK is one of the harder match ups ... especially if the DK knows how to play the MU

 

[misterpimp5757]

dk could be a tough opponent i would like to see ripple vs dsf or chillin.

 

[_Yes!_]

The best DK in the world is bum if you want to see the highest level of DK.

But nah DK definitely isn't a hard matchup for snake. Falco, Olimar, and Metaknight are, but not DK.

Falco's lazers limit the field of movement Snake has. If snake doesnt start each stock at 30% by blowing himself up, he can take up at 85% from CG to spike to c4 recovery. Falco can outcamp snake, and Falco's jab and ftilt are very good pokes on Snake. The only problem falco has is killing, and it doesnt matter if falco can get snake to 200 just by shooting lazers and running away the whole fight. I''m taking this from tourney experience versus some of the best falcos on the East Coast, Keitaro and D1. It's much more annoying to fight falco than DK.

Olimar has ******** combos on snake, and olimar can severly outcamp snake horizontally. Olimar has no problem killing snake, and it's not that easy to edgeguard/edgehog a smart olimar. I'm taking this from my experience in tourney versus Blackwaltz, one of the best Olimars in the country, who has beaten players like Chillin in tourney. Much harder to fight Olimar than it is to fight DK.

Metaknight can easily overwhelm Snake. Mk's d-tilt outranges anything Snake has on the ground. It can combo into another d-tilt which most likely trips snake, and sets MK up to grab him and get him offstage. Mk's ftilt has insane priority, and in the air, MK dominates. Offstage, snake is as good as dead. Most of the time, snake will get gimped if he's offstage, and has little options to recover.

He can either:

1) come in with a nair and hope the mk messes up.
2) try to bait an up-b and airdodge
3) recover high with c4 and cypher

the problem with each of these is that at the highest level of play, the likelihood of these options working is slim. corresponding to each option is the risk of doing that option

1) at the highest level of play, the mk won't mess up
2) Mk can use Nair for the kill and it lasts longer than an airdodge
3) Mk can follow snake up high and kill with a ceiling tornado, which is hard to get out of

This means Snake cannot stand a chance in a head on fight.

He can camp grenades, but a smart MK can get inside and punish. How does MK get inside? By dashing in right? M2K has said "just do the first hit of the ftilt if they dash at you." and I asked Teh_spamerer, one of the best players out there, "what if they shield the ftilt?" and his response was "then go for a dash grab." Obviously, unless you can read minds or have played with that MK for long enough to know his habits, you have a 50-50 chance of being right.

My experience vs MK is gathered from countless matches with dmbrandon, teh_spamerer, inui, and a few matches with mew2king.

Mew2king says that Snake and Metaknight go even, similar to Marth and Fox in melee, and that it can depend on the stage. I agree with him on this, that for Snake, it's at best even or 55:45, but Snake doesn't win it.

And now, back to Donkey Kong. It's true that he can outrange snake, but his moves have such startup lag that you can see it coming and powershield easily. After the powershield, feel free to ftilt. DK can camp bairs; that's fine, but he's gonna land eventually, and snake and grab him out of that. Dk doesn't have an escape move like tornado or falco's side-b to get away from snake once snake gets inside to dk. and at long distance, all snake has to do is throw grenades at him. Just keep this up until you can land an up tilt and it's a win for snake. It's really nowhere near as difficult as people make it out to be.

I go by what I've seen or experienced myself in tournament. Obviously my word isn't law or whatever but I do know what I'm talking about for the most part. Hope this helps out a bit guys

 

[cycon365]

Falco's lazers limit the field of movement Snake has.

I mean you could crouch and wait him out, or drop a grenade while powershielding and throw said grenade.

or crouch, fake him out, then dtilt

but yeah, the CG and the spike are the real problems that falco brings up

 

[Tero.]

Falco is only a real problem if you are below 40% after 40 snake has the advantage. Like cycon365 said you can crouch under lasers, so you shouldn't get preassured to much.