So, Is my Fox any Good yet?

EPsilon933 · Dec 1, 2009

Smilez said:
That said Epsilon next time you make a thread try to limit it to 3-5 matches and preferably stick to one match up. (ex: Fox vs Captn) It will be easier to receive feedback.

I've got too much free time on my hands. Also, during some of my matches with ephoenix6 and Boss, my tech skill and mindset weren't as good as normal. I was missing techs, JC grabs, and kept attacking ephoenix6 when he was lying down. That let him get a free getup attack on me. I tried to upload the ones where that didn't happen. Oh, and Shroomed wanted to see newer footage of Boss's Doctor Mario.

Thanks for helping out. Don't worry, Smilez, Umbreon's comment confused me more than anything else. I'm not offended by anyone here.

Deleted member · Dec 1, 2009

stop jabbing. actually, don't use fair, backthrow, forwardthrow, downthrow, jab, uptilt, ftilt, dtilt, dsmash, fsmash, or dash attack ever. use lasers only vs peach and jigglypuff. then just be technically proficient and don't do anything stupid. See how far that gets you.

AprilShaw · Dec 1, 2009

That's not very helpful Mow <.<

Anyways, just a few minor points of advice. Get your SHFFL down more consistent, you don't always fastfall, especially when you actually hit. Also don't use drill so much, it's not that great in most situations. More than a few times you started dashing back and forth short hopping dairs, which serves no real purpose. If you and your opponent aren't near each other, don't just throw out aerials. Instead, try to dashdance/move around more, as moving has no lag and you can cover most of your opponent's options.

Your shield pressure isn't great, so instead, teach yourself to shine grab. It gives you a solid option when opponents are in their shield. Just don't spam it, as with anything, you don't wanna be predictable. Avoid doing stuff like nair -> dtilt against characters that can punish it (which is pretty much everyone) unless you're absolutely sure it'll shield poke them.

Once you get a grab, against any floaty characters go for up throw -> up air. Almost all the time, this'll be your best option. Against Marth, up throw -> back air is good too to get him off the edge. Against midrange fall speeds, upthrow up air still ***** them. Against C.Falcon, up throw chaingrab is good, or utilts uairs etc. out of a uthrow. Once he's at ~40% another good option is fthrow, as it puts him on the ground and you can get a lot of damage if you guess a tech right.

Other than that, don't try stuff you don't have down well yet. Cactuar once said (I'm paraphrasing) that having your tech skill game ahead of your mental game is asking for problems, which is true. Don't do stuff that's overly flashy just because you can, go for what's effective. You'd be surprised how many situations an nair will beat out much harder to execute techniques, especially if you don't get said techniques 95%+ of the time.

Also, this is something that can't really be taught, but watch your opponent, try to figure out what you get punished for and what you can punish, etc.

Hope this helps xP

Lovage · Dec 1, 2009

mow's post was angsty and weird, don't pay attention to it
except for the be technical and dont do dumb stuff part

Cactuar · Dec 2, 2009

Jab is the only move you need with Fox.

Smilez · Dec 2, 2009

^^^ Wow, this is what the Melee community has been reduced to. We have a fairly new player asking for advice and every reply is sarcastic and unhelpful. Melee is doomed to die if we don't get some new blood in our community, so when a player comes along who is actually serious about improving I think we owe him a little more that "cute" remarks.

That said Epsilon next time you make a thread try to limit it to 3-5 matches and preferably stick to one match up. (ex: Fox vs Captn) It will be easier to receive feedback.

To be fair your Fox has a lot of inefficiencies.
-In most cases you want L-cancel your ariels into shines(Leads into a lot of combos)
-Up throw is your friend every other throw is for special situations only.
-Don't jump off the level so much(Especially against MARTH)
-D-air off the ledge makes no sense (Like you said that aint Falco)Your better of just going for the shine
-When recovering sweet spot the edge(In most cases)

*For now the best advice I can give is watch videos of top level foxes(Pc, Raynex, Jman) and copy what they do even if you don't know why the did it. You'll learn eventually. Stick with it.

Good shiz to CABC for trying to help him out.

Fortress | Sveet · Dec 2, 2009

its cactuar. he can make any sarcastic reply he wants.

Mr Physych · Dec 2, 2009

you're better than me lol

the one thing i can say is that while your use of wavedashing is good it looks like you could improve your movement still, try as they said, to use your dash dance while not actually attacking but also waveland. when on maps with platforms wavelands will improve your movements which will help you with stage control and also your approach.

but ya other than that you're a good fox for sure

AprilShaw · Dec 2, 2009

Smilez said:
*For now the best advice I can give is watch videos of top level foxes(Pc, Raynex, Jman) and copy what they do even if you don't know why the did it. You'll learn eventually. Stick with it.

Good shiz to CABC for trying to help him out.

I do what I can :laugh:

But just to add on the watching videos thing, watch videos of not-top-level Foxes who are better than you, too. Imo you learn a lot faster from them. Or old videos of Foxes lol, the old style was kind of to just do what's best in every situation. New style puts more emphasis on creativity.

Smilez · Dec 3, 2009

CABC said:
I do what I can

But just to add on the watching videos thing, watch videos of not-top-level Foxes who are better than you, too. Imo you learn a lot faster from them. Or old videos of Foxes lol, the old style was kind of to just do what's best in every situation. New style puts more emphasis on creativity.

True, I agree old school vids might be the way to go.

jugfingers · Dec 4, 2009

in the 3rd match you nair'd marth off of the level and then immediately doublejumped, the position of being on the stage while marth is on the ledge is generally advantageous because you can back up and wait for him to come onto the stage which weakens his position then react with an appropriate attack to his method of recovery(e.g dashdance grab,nairshine etc). however doublejumping that close to the ledge weakens your position as marth can either easily ledgedash,roll, etc on to the stage and then gain control of the centre or even worse can ledge jump into an uair with will out range your falling aerial which could be fatal if combo'd into a fsmash or something. I think the least contraversial move in this position is just to wavedash backwards far enough to escape any attempted ledge aerials but close enough to potentially punish any recovery.

so maybe looking over your recorded matches and trying to find situations where you unnecessarily weakened your position whether or not it was punished, and then figuring out a better positional move to make in that situation. especially when you've just knocked your opponent on the ground or above you on a platform.

also I don't know what mow is talking about lasers are useful against every character, your use of dtilt was pretty **** reminded me of tang, and jab is obviously really useful in alot of situations, however you nair-jab'd marths shield at one point which was easily punished with a shield grab so there are certain situations to never use some of foxes moves, but there will be situations in which all of foxes moves can be used, so don't let mow close your mind.

CanISmash · Dec 4, 2009

i doubt cactuar was being sarcastic he can do w/e he wants and it works. /fanboy

lol

Flamin Roy · Dec 5, 2009

lol smilez gets mad and gives angry advice lol

Smilez · Dec 5, 2009

Flamin Roy said:
lol smilez gets mad and gives angry advice lol

I think its better than no advice at all...

Cactuar · Dec 6, 2009

Telling someone to copy what someone else does without understanding why they do it is awful advice.

DtJ Jungle · Dec 6, 2009

What the plant said

Not understanding why something works doesn't help you at all. For example, if you don't know why dash dancing is good and you just dash dance because Cactuar does it, how will you know when it works? How will you know when to apply it? You won't, you'll learn that you're just doing it wrong.

TresChikon · Dec 6, 2009

A lot of people DD just cuz they see it in vids. I just lol and spam lasers at them.

PK Webb · Dec 17, 2009

Im a struggling fox as well and here is what works for me in terms of practice......
1)practice l cancel-->shine for all of ur aerials(to me order of importance nair,dair,bair,uair,fair)
2)practice JC grabs they help to no end especially when u start facing falcos
3)practice running and shining-->thunders
4)practice wavelands on every tournament stage...even counterpicks
5)practice wavelandng from the edge..i hear its one of his safest ways to return to the stage(i still cant do this well)
6)Play smart!!!! now i know that sounds vague but choose ur move wisely dont always go for sum flashy combo. I went down that road and all i ended up doing was SD'ing everywhere or gettting so anxious to get a combo off i mess up and get grabbed to death. Once i started to play smart combos just started to magically appear. And yes watch pros play such as pc,jman,m2k,raynex,and eggm but also watch the opponents that they face and see when the fox used certain attacks and such. Observe and absorb as much as u can from the vids. Hope this helps

I've seen ur falcon fight and here is my take but what do i no im a n00b:
more uthrow uair or uthrow utilt....more grabs in general
shine after aerials helps alot
if u jab u shouldn't run away and do nothing....that jab did nothing for u......i like to jab grab.....or jab a quick dash dance and regrab if they like to spot dodge then u uthrow-->utilt,uair,usmash,uthrow,nair-->shine,wateva ur foxyself desires
I see the falcon was mostly spammin aerials everywhere.....sheild grab that latex wearing piece of manlyness and get the combos started lol.
thats all i got....

4 Aces · Jan 4, 2010

T. Webb said:
5)practice wavelandng from the edge..i hear its one of his safest ways to return to the stage(i still cant do this well)

Haha, only if you're good at it. I suck at it, and I self-destruct at least 50% of the times. It's too smexy not to learn though. *goes to practice*

Lol my friends dash dance, because they see me dash dance in my matches.

So, Is my Fox any Good yet?

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