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So... there is this god **** ****ing good sonic and I need help

ADHD

Smash Hero
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Feb 18, 2008
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It was crazy, he knew exactly what to do and everything in every scenario. I tried mixing it up alot and eventually was able to get him to 40% on the last stock. I'm looking for some trick other than bananas to beat the spin dash (he is really freakin smart, no he will rarely get hit by bananas during the spindash and he's so careful about that). I struggled to get him to trip, and I just felt like I was getting disassembled. Everything I did was just countered, I didn't have any clear idea on how to attack next and I've never, ever felt like that before. It was worse than any metaknight could have done to my diddy :( I know the matchup, in fact I have a sonic player in my crew that's pretty good and I face him often, but I've never faced a player as good as the other sonic.. He absolutely knew what to do against me and I wish I knew of a good defense against the spindash other than bananas. I guess I feel like thien vs roy r right now--except I lost to a crappy character which is even more demeaning.. XD
 

Tenki

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Wait, so you fought against a good Sonic, and your worst problem was the spindashes and not the grabs?

o_O; he must have been pretty godly.

Also, this was offline, right? Because if it was online and he was catching/countering bananas, he must have had a hell of a prediction on you.
 

Player-1

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Dtilt, dtilt, dtilt, dtilt. Seriously, if you can get a good position dtilt the dash attack, spin dash, spin charge. Might be hard at first but once you adapt to using dtilts every time you see/hear the spin dash try and get a dtilt in. I think the dtilt will only cancel it so dtilt to the usual, I think the dtilt goes through the dash attack though.
 

ADHD

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Dtilt, dtilt, dtilt, dtilt. Seriously, if you can get a good position dtilt the dash attack, spin dash, spin charge. Might be hard at first but once you adapt to using dtilts every time you see/hear the spin dash try and get a dtilt in. I think the dtilt will only cancel it so dtilt to the usual, I think the dtilt goes through the dash attack though.
Hmm I think i've come up with a strategy already, thanks, but does AAA combo have any effect on the spindash?
 

Player-1

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Hmm I think i've come up with a strategy already, thanks, but does AAA combo have any effect on the spindash?
I don't think so ftilt might but dtilt has less lag so it's safer and more spammable. IDC if you ready have a strategy, dtilt is god. dtilt>bananas.
 

AlAxe

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 30, 2008
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Seems to me like more a attacks would help, especially the quick ones. Goot timing/positioning with dtilt, aaa, and mixed up arial combinations would probably help you out.
 

Luigi player

Smash Master
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Sonic isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

I think he's about even with Diddy. If Sonic get's a banana he will really give Diddy trouble, because of his awesome glidetoss.
It's easy for Sonic to avoid bananas and pick them up with his dash attack, and since he's so fast it's also easy for him to get them.


Since nearly no one plays Sonic I don't really know how it is for Diddy, but I used Sonic against a other good once Diddy and beat him.
 

Le_THieN

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LOL, I like how virtually every match-up query that's popped up in the last couple of weeks has had to do mainly with characters I faced in brackets at OH SNAP!.

I played Mr. 3000's Sonic in my second round of Winner's Brackets. We played on Final Destination all three matches. =) I had to make a lot of on-the-fly adjustments in this particular match-up, because I frankly had never, ever played a Sonic before in tournament in my life up until that point, much less one that is touted as the best Sonic in the nation. The only thing I knew about Sonic was that he has Diddy Kong Syndrome (i.e. a severe limitation as far as KO power and options are concerned). His solution was the same as mine: preserve your kill moves (F-smash and B-air in Sonic's case) until the appropriate percentages. The majority of his offense comprised of Spin Dashes canceled into aerials, as well as Spring Jumps into D-air cross-ups.

The major component stringing together his attacks was his Spin Dash approach. Banana peel traps on the ground are obviously ineffective, as Spin Dash allows Sonic to roll right through them. The thing that makes Spin Dash much trickier to counter besides the fact that it can close an outrageous amount of distance in the breath of second are the Spin Dash-canceling variations (of which I didn't know existed until I played 3K). Retreating cancels, cancels that pop Sonic up vertically, etc. are all very hard to predict and readjust to once you have taken the bait to attack him while he is charging his dash.

The thing that I started doing mid-match in the first match was to not even bother approaching with glide-tossing, but to force his approach from afar with peanuts. I would then bait his Spin Dash, and then I would punish accordingly with banana peels (as well as reverse single dribbling if I needed to adjust my spacing). Banana peels will knock him out of Spin Dash state if they are thrown directly at him. If you can get this far and knock Sonic out of positional advantage, you can apply constant pressure and pretty much tack on endless damage, especially if the Sonic player begins to play defensively (which is always a bad choice for that person because Sonic's out-of-shield options are really quite awful).

If you for some reason aren't able to react fast enough to counter Spin Dash as soon as you see it coming, try your best to just power-shield it instead and retaliate immediately with a glide-toss cross-up before he leaves your rear range. Sonic has a slight slide to his tripping animation; following up against him isn't as bad as Luigi or even Yoshi, but Sonic recovers from tripped state fairly quickly, and I was caught off guard a few times at how that slight slide made all the difference between me ****** 3K with a dash attack combo and, well, me not comboing him at all.

I was able to rack up damage fine by playing defensively. The problem by the time the final match rolled around was that I wasn't able to kill him as quickly as I wanted because he started playing defensive hit 'n run, as well. In the event of this, it is imperative that you never use your F- or D-smashes until you are positive they will kill.
 

ADHD

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LOL, I like how virtually every match-up query that's popped up in the last couple of weeks has had to do mainly with characters I faced in brackets at OH SNAP!.

I played Mr. 3000's Sonic in my second round of Winner's Brackets. We played on Final Destination all three matches. =) I had to make a lot of on-the-fly adjustments in this particular match-up, because I frankly had never, ever played a Sonic before in tournament in my life up until that point, much less one that is touted as the best Sonic in the nation. The only thing I knew about Sonic was that he has Diddy Kong Syndrome (i.e. a severe limitation as far as KO power and options are concerned). His solution was the same as mine: preserve your kill moves (F-smash and B-air in Sonic's case) until the appropriate percentages. The majority of his offense comprised of Spin Dashes canceled into aerials, as well as Spring Jumps into D-air cross-ups.

The major component stringing together his attacks was his Spin Dash approach. Banana peel traps on the ground are obviously ineffective, as Spin Dash allows Sonic to roll right through them. The thing that makes Spin Dash much trickier to counter besides the fact that it can close an outrageous amount of distance in the breath of second are the Spin Dash-canceling variations (of which I didn't know existed until I played 3K). Retreating cancels, cancels that pop Sonic up vertically, etc. are all very hard to predict and readjust to once you have taken the bait to attack him while he is charging his dash.

The thing that I started doing mid-match in the first match was to not even bother approaching with glide-tossing, but to force his approach from afar with peanuts. I would then bait his Spin Dash, and then I would punish accordingly with banana peels (as well as reverse single dribbling if I needed to adjust my spacing). Banana peels will knock him out of Spin Dash state if they are thrown directly at him. If you can get this far and knock Sonic out of positional advantage, you can apply constant pressure and pretty much tack on endless damage, especially if the Sonic player begins to play defensively (which is always a bad choice for that person because Sonic's out-of-shield options are really quite awful).

If you for some reason aren't able to react fast enough to counter Spin Dash as soon as you see it coming, try your best to just power-shield it instead and retaliate immediately with a glide-toss cross-up before he leaves your rear range. Sonic has a slight slide to his tripping animation; following up against him isn't as bad as Luigi or even Yoshi, but Sonic recovers from tripped state fairly quickly, and I was caught off guard a few times at how that slight slide made all the difference between me ****** 3K with a dash attack combo and, well, me not comboing him at all.

I was able to rack up damage fine by playing defensively. The problem by the time the final match rolled around was that I wasn't able to kill him as quickly as I wanted because he started playing defensive hit 'n run, as well. In the event of this, it is imperative that you never use your F- or D-smashes until you are positive they will kill.
I didn't think of keeping glidetossing to a mininimum. Thanks ^_^
 

Le_THieN

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I didn't think of keeping glidetossing to a mininimum. Thanks ^_^
The thing to keep in mind is that Diddy Kong mains are the ones who are used to controlling the stage. We all may have different play-styles, but at the end of the day, the similarity that binds most of us together is we will always try to overwhelm our opponents with a banana rush. Sonic's Spin Dash reduces the effectiveness of that strategy greatly. This special move, combined with the fact that Sonic is the fastest character in the game, grants him the ability to close distance horizontally and vertically (Spring Jump and D-air). This makes his cross-ups much, much better than Diddy's, and it also expands the number of safe options he has if he's able to breach Diddy's defenses, rack up damage, and then leave immediately before we even have a chance to make sense of the situation and retaliate.

And, if he's able to shut down your banana game, this also means he will be able to punish you severely with a full-blown, MK-style rush-down. Unless you've been playing Sonic for months, you probably don't have Sonic's running or Spin Dash speeds down well enough to properly react and preemptively strike.

And worse than that is when the Sonic player starts using bananas against you, and can pretty much hit you as far as his throw range is with the banana, trip you, and still be fast enough to close distance and grab you before you can get up. That is frustrating.

You must play defensively against Sonic and apply smart, measured rush-down when you are positive you will connect.
 

Anther

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Overswarm ;p, well if your evil lil monkies didn't completely shut down pikachu, stuff like this wouldn't happen >=/.

But if you ever face Overswarm's rob or MK with sonic, you know exactly what's going to be beating you. =p
 

CT Chia

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i havn't done the match for a while, but i always loved playing against a diddy as sonic lol

he can run up and grab you out of anything and steal ur bananaz
what now!? not so top tier r ya? lol :p
 

GodotAA

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the sonic -diddy kong match up is relativly even. Its really not bad at all. I personally know malcom and i play against him every weekend, and when i picked up diddy kong there was nothign i could do. If there was a banana out he would just dash attack into it and pick it up with ease. Thats the main reason the match up isnt bad IMO is that the banana dont effect him alot at all. i was so upset i just started to randomly smash attack and that started to work out alot better... -_-

Le_THieN pertty much said enough though.
 

Tenki

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If they try to spindash over a banana, throw a banana towards it. Thrown bananas can hit Sonic out of spindash.

If they try to pick up a floored banana, throw a banana towards that :l

Sonic's dash attack has quite a bit of commitment time.

I'll give you guys some good tips from the SBR some prestige members of the boards concerning Sonic. They're very experienced players so I'd take their word for it.

I like when Sonic's try to use their neutral B to recover, all you have to do is dodge and it sends them at a downward angle.

Past that, Sonic is pretty bad. Doesn't his dash attack go over Diddy Bananas, without picking them up.
I think the best way to fight sonic is to throw out attacks as quickly as possible and to pretend his attacks don't exist. It works alarmingly well.
I beat Anther's Sonic, after being down a stock, because OS was standing right there and said "dastrn: don't move and hit down tilt."

It worked. Sonic is garbage
.
No disjointed hitboxes of any kind, spam works. And there's nothing that Sonic can do, because the only things that go around it are so telegraphed that the other person can just move out of the way. Like, I literally walked up to DastrnMarco and said
'hey, you're playing Anther's Sonic and you're down a couple stocks; Hold down and just hit A alot. He's gonna jump and do a neutral B. Shield and roll. Then down-tilt again. He then beat Anther's Sonic.'
I hope these words of wisdom help you as much as they've helped us.

:093:
 

Chis

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This is some amazing advice you have just been given. I suggest you start using it against tournament fit Sonics as soon as possible.

:093:
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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You guys do realize Malcolm plays NinjaLink fairly often?

I wish they would post Sonic/Diddy sets. It might be my favourite match up in the game. :)

I have nothing helpful to say but I love this thread.
 

Le_THieN

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THIS THREAD
IS READY
TO EXPLODE

Sonic vs Diddy is very even in my eyes and you have to think so much it's really **** fun.
It really is. My one set with Mr. 3000 went to the last match. Every match was last stock, extremely high percent every time, especially when 3K started to retreat and play defensively. Even at that, it was still one of my more exhilarating sets at OH SNAP!, and I'm glad I got a few snaps in with a great Sonic main now rather than later.
 

Fliphopper

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Yeah Diddy vs Sonic is a fun match. Both characters handle's bananas so well. Makes me want to use sonic against a Diddy just cause of that. IMO you have to play defensive the whole match and watching making spacing mistakes since his hitboxes aren't that great.
 

Player-1

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Who would seriously think that you can stop a character just by dtilting?... >_>
IDK...But it works. I'm not saying to spam it, I'm saying use it smartly and always be ready to use one. It's not punishable and you can punish Sonic if the player doesnt expect it
 

Crizthakidd

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dude playing anthers sonic does not compare to malcom. lol that guys sonic is just roid rage brawl version. sd 3 times to avoid an embarrasing and akward loss to that sonic.

jk just learn the matchup. dont throw nanas too early
 

pastaboy

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I'm just excited to see if sonic keeps up even with knowledgeable diddys XD.
lol reading this thread mite help me with your sonic.
I didnt know diddy gave pikachu a hard time, hes soo **** quick and jumpy
we need to have some friendlies on the 20th, NO ID JOHNS
 

Dark Ryu

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LOL, two fast, light characters with only exactly five knockout moves between them? =) No, that's a recipe for disaster.
LoL! Yeah sonic and diddy aren't the best teammates... Not horrible but lets just say there are better ones.

Me and X teamed at a tourney and only took third(really good sonic... one of the best sonics out there. Him and Mr 3000 were supposed to play at the OK.) Anyways yeah Sonic and Diddy, not the best matchup just because of what Le_THieN said, not a lot of killing potential.
 
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