Some questions about marth\falco+need advice.

[SucksatDiablo]

Ok, Im maining these too along with CF, and need some help. First off, I am a pretty big nub at this, so dont kill me for not being a button pushing god ;P. In any case:

1) Ledgehop double laser. Any explanation on how to do this with falco? My friend is telling me its easy but apparently im incompetent and don't get it.

2) How often to use dair vs nair? When to use either of these? I pillar (the damaging combo) often, so I tend to use dair alot. Problems with this? Any suggestions on when to use the nair\bair?

3) Marth's nair. I feel Im using this too much. Should the nair be used more often than the fair? Or does this not really matter. Or is it situational.

4) How important is wavedashing REALLY? I mean, I use it for spacing a bit with marth, and never with falco. Any situations on when Id actually have to use a wavedash with either of these other than those? (I realize the shinedash, but a shffshine works for me lol, either that or a dair before it.)

Thanks.

EDIT: Im sorry if this belongs in a char specific board. Was wondering because Im asking about two characters if I should just split this up or keep it here. Sorry if I look like an idiot lol.

 

[Falco (MOP)]

Ok, Im maining these too along with CF, and need some help. First off, I am a pretty big nub at this, so dont kill me for not being a button pushing god ;P. In any case:

1) Ledgehop double laser. Any explanation on how to do this with falco? My friend is telling me its easy but apparently im incompetent and don't get it.

2) How often to use dair vs nair? When to use either of these? I pillar (the damaging combo) often, so I tend to use dair alot. Problems with this? Any suggestions on when to use the nair\bair?

3) Marth's nair. I feel Im using this too much. Should the nair be used more often than the fair? Or does this not really matter. Or is it situational.

4) How important is wavedashing REALLY? I mean, I use it for spacing a bit with marth, and never with falco. Any situations on when Id actually have to use a wavedash with either of these other than those? (I realize the shinedash, but a shffshine works for me lol, either that or a dair before it.)

Thanks.

Haha Matt, welcome XD

Hopefully someone will explain the SHDL better than I can -.-

--The MOP

 

[SucksatDiablo]

Haha Matt, welcome XD

Hopefully someone will explain the SHDL better than I can -.-

--The MOP

Hopefully they can XD.

 

[Exypnos]

can't help you here. I play ness

 

[ArcNatural]

1.Ledgehop double laser:

Two common methods + setup. For one thing in order to ensure that your lasers are BOTH low and able to hit your opponent on the stage means you have to drop a little before double jumping back onto the stage. If you ledgehop instantly and spam B you most likely will have irregular laser levels. So you have to grab ledge drop for half a second then ledgehop laser. Also you can keep hitting B while your in the air, no need to try to time it and only hit B twice.

My methods:

Simple way is to just hit down then hit X or Y and immediately hit B as fast as you can while DIing back onto the stage (after you hit B and are in the lasering animation you can just hold forward you won't illusion).

More tricky but better laser grouping. Dropping then jumping with the analog stick and immediately hitting B. With this method you can hit B really fast which means you can easily firebird (upB) at first. But once you get the hang of it, you can literally fire both of the lasers at the exact same height on the ground. You can also do this by clawing or being extremely fast at the X,Y to B motion. But both are pretty hard to pull off as easily as this.

2. As for nair/bair/dair combinations. I would look at it as nair and dair can both be used for approaching while bair is more for edgegaurding or trying to knock them to the edge (example around 60-70% with Fox shine to bair will generally put them off the stage for edgegaurding opportunities). But really it comes down to feel and generating variation. The all have different shield lag and l-canceling timing as well. So it's important to develop them so you can use them all.

My general uses for nairing with Falco have been for shffl approaches, platform dropping (both can be substituted for dair) or running of the stage and nairing back onto the stage to stop phantasm/illusions. Bairs would be shine to bair, edgegaurding and shield stabbing.

3. Marth nair: I nair and shffl fair a lot with Marth. They are both pretty solid when spaced well. At low percents most characters can CC the first hit of the nair and grab or jab you before the second hit though. Just make sure not to make the mistake of trying to use sh double fair as an approach. It works sometimes but it's generally very bad.

4. Wavedashing is great with Falco if you know how to use it. As you said, against characters like Fox,Falco, or Captain Falcon it's important to learn how to wavedash out of your shines, as it will help you to further your pillar combos. It's great for spacing tricks.

Pulse walking (dash forward wavedash back trying to goad an attack, not particularly useful with falco though because he can just laser).

Wavelanding (sh or some jump variation into a wavedash) is GREAT with Falco. Especially if you can develop patterns in your opponents. Do you double jump dair or shffl dair and get shield grabbed a lot or notice your opponent tries to shield grab a lot? Do the jumps but instead of dairing just waveland backwards to Fsmash. Once you can wavedash out of shine, and do close to perfect wavelands in any situation, it will really speed up your game.

If your looking for l-canceling practice, I definitely recommend turning handicaps on using a 2nd controller or lvl 1 cpu Bowser with 9 handicap with you at a 1 handicap. He will barely move and you can practice every type of shffl/aerial l-cancel approach. Makes a big difference compared to practicing without hitting anything and he won't move much so you can mimic shield pressure and speed up your shffling that way.

 

[SucksatDiablo]

Thank you very much for the help. Wavelanding has always been hard for me, but now that I see the uses for it it sounds like it will work very well Im glad someone this informative posted. Thank you again, this should improve my game

 

[Jun.]

you should wavedash out of shines on fox to get them in combos. falco spacing is also very important.

 

[Leech]

3) Marth's nair. I feel Im using this too much. Should the nair be used more often than the fair? Or does this not really matter. Or is it situational.

Uhm.. yeah i don't think it matters.. i main with a lot of people.. marth being one of them. if you feel more comfortable using nair instead of fair.. you should use nair.. just watch out for your enemies attack.. make sure if u fair u dont run into an attack and make sure when u nair u don't miss.. thats about all i can tell you.. otherwise its just a matter of opinion of which one to use.

 

[S0FT]

arcnatural I thought the main purpose of double lasering off the ledge was to get on the stage safely. I always try and do them at different heights in case they try and jump over them....

 

[lordoftheasians]

Oh, for LHDL. I switch over to claw (thumb on B and pointer over Y). Since my fingers aren't fast enough, using claw enables me to jump then immediately laser while DIing.

Haha, it takes some practice switching to claw mid-game.

 

[ArcNatural]

arcnatural I thought the main purpose of double lasering off the ledge was to get on the stage safely. I always try and do them at different heights in case they try and jump over them....

You would think that, but the problem is it's usually the 2nd laser that's high not the first. meaning if you do it wrong they can get hit by the first laser then just dash towards you and get a free hit. You can mix the heights slightly, but usually you don't want too much space between them to enable chances like these.

Plus if you think they are going to try to jump over your lasers, why aren't you using that to your advantage? I don't want to say what you should be doing if you notice your opponent jumping over your lasers, experiment and find out what you can do to keep your edge recovery varied.

 

[Zodiac]

Wavedashing is very useful, if you really paid attention to videos on youtube you'd see people making use of it constantly. Anyway, dont feel bad, Falco is one of my "mains" and I still dont get the LH DL.

 

[S0FT]

My first laser is high and me second laser is short.
There is no need to switch to claw. If you are having trouble I think this is the easiest way.

Hanging on the ledge->Shine->jump with analog stick->press B twice.....
Its also super easy to triple laser off the ledge with fox this way. Even though its not that useful

 

[Xona]

I'm a Marth main, so I can help with Marth. The tip of Marth's slash blade is the sweetspot. Marth's ADA/NAIR is a spike, it can't be meteor-jumped. That's why I recommend finishing a combo with it. Also remember that Marth's counter doesn't work on projectiles. I would reccomend dash-short-hopping into a shield-breaker or a shffl-ANA. Dash, then tap the control stick up and release as fast as possible. Hit B, or hit A then down then L or R. I also like to dash in, wavedash out (if you don't know wavedash, then go on youtube and type in "wavedash SSBM"), then I use Marth's forward smash. This takes practice. I also like to use a dash-cancelled up-smash. That can set up a large # of attacks. An example is forward-smash, they're right at the edge of the slash, BOOM!!!! Another favorite is up+B, you have to get them right in front of you though, you also must fast fall (tap down). Marth's AFA/FAIR is also useful. Also, try to use arials a lot. experiment and PRAY you aren't on FD.
For Falco, I can't help much. My only tip is not to SD.

 

[replicate]

hey guise I main seven characters
this is off-topic, but people seriously throw that word around so much

If you "main" a character, he is the MAIN character that you use


on-topic: marth's fair is a good deal better for spacing just because it's so fast and so spammable. I don't know for certain, but whenever I try using nair the same way I feel much more vulnerable because of its worse range and weak first hit. For example, if someone's shielding you can just double f-air them all day long, but if you try and neutral air running into them they'll probably just shieldgrab you.

F-air is really important because it allows you to keep pressure on your opponent from a distance, whereas his nair is more useful in combos.

 

[Zodiac]

Again i'll stress that wavedashing has a intrical part in the games mind games and tech games, if you havent already perfected it do so. and start watching videos of people that wavedashing, M2K, KDJ, PC chris(Falco user, WAVEDASHES) NOT ANIKI

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

1) You're not incompetent, you're fingers are just slower then required for the movement at the moment, but you can train this up. I used to think that just short-hopping was near impossible about 3 months ago, and now I can SHDL 100% consistently with fox. Just practice: your fingers will get faster.
Anyway about which buttons you actually use, most people press down the control stick (to fast fall) and then up (to double jump), neutralize the stick really quick and press b twice. However, I press down on the control stick then slide my thumb from Y to B and press it twice. I think it's easier.

2) Nair has a bit more priority in front of it then dair I think, making it a bit better to use as an approach. And as for combos: Bair and sometimes Nair is better for getting them off the stage if you're comboing them in the air, since it sends them to the side rather then down.

3) No idea. I dont play marth.

4) It gives you more possibilities and freedom in your movement... It really is that simple So yes I'd say it's necessary.

 

[replicate]

Again i'll stress that wavedashing has a intrical part in the games mind games and tech games, if you havent already perfected it do so. and start watching videos of people that wavedashing, M2K, KDJ, PC chris(Falco user, WAVEDASHES) NOT ANIKI

integral + intrinsic = intrical?

 

[JrdnS]

silent wolf is very technical with fox and falco. watch some of his vids too.

LHDL: Down on analog stick, then up. B twice. its pretty easy.

wavedashing is crucial if you want to take you game to the next level.