Someone elaborate on what "exactly" a Melee combo is please...

[HolyCrusader]

Alright you melee veterans I would like to know what the definition of a combo is in your perspective. I usually associate a combo with pretty much anything that goes more than one hit. So yeah I'm kinda lost here....

 

[Strong Badam]

"True" combos are any multiple hits that occur without the possibility of escape, including DI. Examples: Pillaring with Falco, up-throw to up-tilt as Marth, etc.

 

[Maikeru17]

You get hit, you're knocked into the air, and you're in hitstun, so you cannot airdodge or jump or use your moves or wiggle or whatever. You're stunned. I hit you again, while you're in hitstun, sending you further, and into hitstun. And again, sending you, once again, into hitstun, and I'm able to hit you again.

That is a combo.


-Nox`

 

[HolyCrusader]

"True" combos are any multiple hits that occur without the possibility of escape, including DI. Examples: Pillaring with Falco, up-throw to up-tilt as Marth, etc.

Er....so basically the whole point is to attack the opponent without any way of them fighting back at all until they are at K.O percent...?

 

[Da Shuffla]

A combo is a series of attacks that result in high percentage gains, and lead into a finishing move, or knocking the opponent offstage for an edgeguard. Only with Melee, these happen VERY fast, and require smart DI or counter-attacks to escape.

 

[KirbyKaze]

d-throw --> f-air is a melee combo.

 

[Vulcan55]

Er....so basically the whole point is to attack the opponent without any way of them fighting back at all until they are at K.O percent...?

not really.

Any two or more attacks linked together that the opponent cannot escape from.

 

[Dark Sonic]

not really.

Any two or more attacks linked together that the opponent cannot escape from.

Not exactly. You see, melee's definition of combo is slightly different.

In melee, as long as you hit them while they're in hitstun (as in, it would count as a combo in training mode), then it is considered a combo.

A "true" combo is any sequence of attacks that fits what is mentioned above, but also cannot be escaped by DIing the previous hit (not including SDI, since that just gets complicated).

Example, Captain Falcon's dair->fair combo is inescapable even with DI, provided that the Falcon reacts (note, not predicts) accordingly.

But melee has many combos that rely on your opponents doing specific DIs on the combo starters (Marth's f-throw to f-smash is one example). Sometimes you are able to combo different moves with different DIs (if Shiek d-tilts and you DI behind her, she can bair or uair. If you DI in front of her, she can fair). So most combos in melee are done by reacting to or predicting your opponents DI and repeating as much as you can (statisticly you will eventually guess wrong and the combo will end, or you will be forced to use a move from which you can't follow up and the combo will end).

Er....so basically the whole point is to attack the opponent without any way of them fighting back at all until they are at K.O percent...?

There are very few "true" combos in melee. Most combos in melee are the result of your DI being predicted by the opponent, as most of the time the opponent is already in motion when they hit you. If Marth is dashing foward and does a fair while holding foward and you DI up, it is really hard for him to follow at all. However, if he predicts that you will DI this way and instead holds back to slow down his momentum before fairing, then he can follow up fairly easily.

See how that works? Now what's most important about combos is that now approaching is a very valuable strategy, as it yeilds very high rewards at only moderate risk. This discourages camping (unless your character is a god at it) and makes gameplay overall faster. It also means that you can't afford to make as many mistakes during a match (since they are punished more harshley), and essentially raises the expectations of players. Combos are a very good thing, and it is sad that there are so few combos in brawl (there's plenty of strings, but melee had those too, just watch any melee combo video and you'll see combos followed by strings followed by combos/strings/death).

 

[JrdnS]

watch some pro melee videos and you'll see for yourself.

vids of pc, scar(falcon), ken, m2k, isai, azen. list goes on and on...

crazy combos. or watch some combo videos. which are usually amazing

 

[Vulcan55]

Not exactly. You see, melee's definition of combo is slightly different.

In melee, as long as you hit them while they're in hitstun (as in, it would count as a combo in training mode), then it is considered a combo.

A "true" combo is any sequence of attacks that fits what is mentioned above, but also cannot be escaped by DIing the previous hit (not including SDI, since that just gets complicated).

Example, Captain Falcon's dair->fair combo is inescapable even with DI, provided that the Falcon reacts (note, not predicts) accordingly.

I don't see how this is different than what I said.

Escaping is escaping, regardless of how they do it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I don't see how this is different than what I said.

Escaping is escaping, regardless of how they do it.

Escaping through DI and escaping because they are out of hitstun are two completely different things.

In the first, it means that it may still be possible to follow up with a different move than you had planned, or it may be possible that if you predict said DI you can continue your "combo" without them being able to escape at that point.

In the second, they have regained full control of their character before you can reach them, and thus they can airdodge/attack,/jump/whatever to escape your combo, regardless of whether or not you knew which way they were going to DI.

The first situation is still heavily in your favor, as not only do you have the positional advantage, but you also have the frame advantage (you can act before they can)

The second is only potentially slightly in your favor by possibly giving you a positional advantage.

See the difference?

And "true combos" are actually very rare in melee. Many people have this notion that the player being combo'd is completely defenseless, when in reality most of the time he' just not using the right DI for the situation, and using a different DI would've gotten him out of that situation (that's why you rarely see people preforming death combos on each other. They're normally like 5 or 6 hits and then the opponent escaping).

 

[Vulcan55]

How they escape isn't important.
If you hit them before they regain control of their character, isn't that a combo?

 

[Tee ay eye]

Melee combos are amazing.

 

[Dark Sonic]

How they escape isn't important.
If you hit them before they regain control of their character, isn't that a combo?

F-throw to F-smash with Marth is a combo on Jigglypuff from 0-80% if they don't DI!.

Marth can chainthrow Marth and f-smash him out of a f-throw at low to medium percentages if he doesn't DI.

Marth can f-throw to f-smash Shiek at high percentages if they DI towards Marth.

Marth can up-throw to f-smash Fox at about 40-65% (rough estimate) if they DI away from Marth.


These are combos that wouldn't work had the opponent DI'd correctly. The first three are also examples where DI would completely save you from any kind of followup whatsoever, and if you are caught by them it is because you DI'd wrong. The last is an example where DI would've prevented this particular combo from happening, but would've still allowed a different combo to happen (up throw to up tilt), and it is up to you to figure out which one is less detrimental to you.

How they escape means everything. Dair to knee is a dependable combo that will work regardless of their DI and can easily be used with the intent to kill the opponent. Marth's f-throw to f-smash isn't and should not be depended on for landing kills, but can be used occasionally in reaction to an opponent's bad DI.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So to summarize, the real definition of "combo" is a series of attacks that is inexcapable after the first hit connects. However, in melee we modify this to mean a series of attacks during which the opponent is in a constant state of hitstun (in other words, they could potentially escape through DI) because very few things fall under the true definition, but many things fall under our game specific definition, and it is more understandable to the average person than "string" which implies that the opponent could've moved but didn't (when in reality he'd already missed his chance to do anything).

 

[Keblerelf]

does tech chasing count towards a combo or part of a string of attacks? If they tech in a direction and they get predicted they cant do anything to avoid the attack, but at the same time it's not really hitstun.

 

[MuraRengan]

I count a series of attacks which the opponent could not or failed to escape from as a combo. And by "failed to escape from" I include tech chasing and mindgaming (combos or continuances of combos).

 

[Vulcan55]

<.>
Darksonic, you're over-complicating things.
If you combo them (Hit them again before they regain control of their character) when they don't DI, it's still a combo.
If you hit them again and they DO DI, then it's still a combo.
Regardless of wether they DI or not, it's still a combo if they haven't regained control of there character when you hit them again.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^But the thing is, that causes a lot of confusion, as people think of combos as inescapable.

But many combos are escapable, thus not dependable, thus they don't fit the actual definition of the word "combo," which is an inescapable sequence of attacks.

Let's bring up my f-throw to f-smash example. Let's say I grab Jigglypuff at 40%. I f-throw her and the player doesn't DI, so I f-smash. Combo? If you say yes, then you agree that F-throw to F-smash is a combo with Marth on Jigglypuff at 40%. Now lets do that same thing again, but this time the Jigglypuff DIs away and down when I throw her. The f-smash misses. This is obviously not a combo since it missed, but you just said f-throw to f-smash is a combo and thus inescapable.

An accurate definition is require to avoid such confusion. Remember, a definition is wrong if you find a single counter example. I just gave you an example where different DI makes or breaks a "combo," so the action itself (f-throw to f-smash) cannot truly be classified as a combo. A definition needs to predict what moves will combo under different conditions, not observe what moves combo under specific conditions.

 

[Grunt]

Alright you melee veterans I would like to know what the definition of a combo is in your perspective. I usually associate a combo with pretty much anything that goes more than one hit. So yeah I'm kinda lost here....

Sheik is a Melee combo

 

[Blea Gelo]

You get hit, you're knocked into the air, and you're in hitstun, so you cannot airdodge or jump or use your moves or wiggle or whatever. You're stunned. I hit you again, while you're in hitstun, sending you further, and into hitstun. And again, sending you, once again, into hitstun, and I'm able to hit you again.

That is a combo.


-Nox`

thats not whe only way to combo..

Combos are not only made of this.. in melee, u have to read each persons DI in a fraction of secs, and u gotta read to where are they teching, this i called TECH CHASING. , If u DI good, in the most of the combos will be over. But that's y u gotta have good reflects so u can DI ok, and dont let ur opponent combo u... ofcourse thehre are combos u cant go out of.. But thats a combo, si not as easy as u think when u are playing vs a person with pretty good reflects, because u gotta DI pretty well, depends on what character are they using..

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Anything that registers as a combo in training mode is a real combo. ie, they get hit by an attack, they get hit by another and when they are hit by the second attack they are still in hitstun from the last attack (so they couldnt do anything inbetween the two hits. Note: DI is input before or at the same time as you're being hit)

 

[jugfingers]

^^But the thing is, that causes a lot of confusion, as people think of combos as inescapable.

But many combos are escapable, thus not dependable, thus they don't fit the actual definition of the word "combo," which is an inescapable sequence of attacks.

Let's bring up my f-throw to f-smash example. Let's say I grab Jigglypuff at 40%. I f-throw her and the player doesn't DI, so I f-smash. Combo? If you say yes, then you agree that F-throw to F-smash is a combo with Marth on Jigglypuff at 40%. Now lets do that same thing again, but this time the Jigglypuff DIs away and down when I throw her. The f-smash misses. This is obviously not a combo since it missed, but you just said f-throw to f-smash is a combo and thus inescapable.

An accurate definition is require to avoid such confusion. Remember, a definition is wrong if you find a single counter example. I just gave you an example where different DI makes or breaks a "combo," so the action itself (f-throw to f-smash) cannot truly be classified as a combo. A definition needs to predict what moves will combo under different conditions, not observe what moves combo under specific conditions.

its a combo if it happened.

This combo is theoretically escapable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu10gRZ0fH0&NR=1

but it wasn't



quit trying to limit the definition of combos.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

It would've been espcapeble with DI, but isai was in constant hitstun during that thing so that was a real combo

 

[greenblob]

Try the smashwiki page
[wiki]combo[/wiki]

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Lol smashwiki.
"# Any sequence of attacks that is very hard to DI (or in certain cases, tech) out of
# Any sequence of attacks that cannot be DI'd out of if performed perfectly "
According to this, melee has no combos.

 

[CaptHappyFace]

edit: sry im signed into the wrong account, wait until the true tailz comes back to see his answer

 

[jugfingers]

a marth forward throw to fsmash on a jigglypuff is a combo if it happens.

definition of the word "combo," which is a sequence of attacks.

fixed

 

[Professor Pro]

A decent combo usually consisit of 3 or more hits.
Two hits arent impressive unless you are doing a shine back air.

 

[LittleOne]

How they escape isn't important.
If you hit them before they regain control of their character, isn't that a combo?

i agree with you 100%.
I think a combo is a series of hits that you cannot escape from.
also it doesn't matter if they can or can't escape, as long as they are hit before they regain control of their character .

 

[HolyCrusader]

So basically melee was just a game of whoever hits first and combos first wins?

 

[AznLanceLord]

"True" combos are any multiple hits that occur without the possibility of escape, including DI. Examples: Pillaring with Falco, up-throw to up-tilt as Marth, etc.

Pillaring is not comboing. Pillaring is pressuring someones shield so they can't really do anything but roll or something.

 

[AznLanceLord]

So you basically melee was just a game of whoever hits first and combos first wins?

Whoever can combo and end with a kill move or ledgegaurd. However, as you get better, none of that is easy...

 

[2.72]

Ummm... no? That's not what anyone here said, other then you I guess. "Inescapable" does not necessarily mean that it will kill. There are very few inescapable 0-to-death combos, and those that exist are generally circumstantial.

EDIT: @HolyCrusader

 

[Sox]

So basically melee was just a game of whoever hits first and combos first wins?

Not at all. Just because they're there doesn't mean that:
1.) they're easy to pull off
2.) they all start at 0% and/or go untill death
3.) they are not extremely punishable if failed or end too early
4.) all characters can be combo'd by everyone easily

and more.

 

[HolyCrusader]

Hmmm well that sort of makes sense. Although wavedashing was said to be easy after practice so wouldn't that make comboing an easy task for anyone who just practices?

 

[NES n00b]

Hmmm well that sort of makes sense. Although wavedashing was said to be easy after practice so wouldn't that make comboing an easy task for anyone who just practices?

Not alot of combos have to do with wavedashing. Most of them involve space animals.

 

[debaser]

So basically melee was just a game of whoever hits first and combos first wins?

No. This is an all too common misconception made frequently by people unfamiliar with the game. It's a gross over simplification

 

[Ryan-K]

So basically melee was just a game of whoever hits first and combos first wins?

no

it's whoever takes all of the opponents stock first

combos are just a tool to build damage, punish, and take advantage of circumstances or lead into kills.

they are hardly the central focus of the game, in a few matchups maybe but not the game in general.

 

[victra♥]

A decent combo usually consisit of 3 or more hits.
Two hits arent impressive unless you are doing a shine back air.

2 hit ganondorf combo is pretty GG.