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I have been on FG all day today and had some pretty good matches until i ran into this dude smh he beats me silly the first two matches using roy ( i was using my secondary,Marth) and i wasnt even stressed about those L's. 3rd match in dude starts taunting after every kill and just being idle for no reason. Then he picks rob and just starts throwing out the same attack over and over again (i was using mario) just to eff with me. He then picks marth and just ends up being petty. I Took that last L and moved on, i was beyond pissed smh i have never raged on smash 4 before via FG and this dude finally made me do it. what are some ways you all deal with raging after being taunted or effed with by someone online?? s*** drove me to the edge in anger
Dang... Now that sounds really rough... It's those kinds of people who ruin the online experience for the ones who just want to play normally.
I do have my fair share of facing jerks online who trigger me sometimes, and what I do is step away from the game and play a more fun/relaxing game or just take a short rest.
I don't have an answer to deal with rage but I do have an answer about the strategy that he used.
Since he was able to spam smash attacks and constantly hit you that means that you never adapted during that set. So the other player had no need to change up their playstyle since you could not find a counter to it.
I'm going to edit this post with some quotes I made in the CCI thread. They can help you beat this strategy and even employ it in offline play if the chance arises.
I think I have already said this before, but if possible play offline. I know you have a group of friends that you play with as you posted a video before. If can, play with them and try to practice the stuff we have shared with you. That Sonic player in particulary played like he came from For Glory. So even better. It's like a 1-1 comparison, only you have the choice to play with internet lag or not.
These are my notes* which are heavily based off of TremendoDude's (Tdude is my abbreviation for him) notes. In them he also uses Yomi to help get his point across; those notes are then based off of Sirlin who said he learned them from the Japanese FGC scene.
I've added a few asterisks where I will go jnto more detail on a topic if I thought it needed more explaination for those who do not understand it right away.
The information for that will be under spoiler tabs.
*i copied, edited, and added some words and formatting to make it flow easier on Smashboards instead of doing a 1-1 copy and paste.
I'll add the source of these notes which come from four of Tdude's lesson streams that he does for players.
Note: His lesson videos are each over an hour long. Some even stretch to two and four hours.
Also at the end of notes is a Miscellaneous spoiler tab that has other information present in his videos. I just did not know where to put them since in my notes, I have them thrown inbetween the below information that I got from Tdude.
Ok that's it for the introduction.
-
First, we need to understand the Rock, Paper, Scissors game, as that is the foundation for these notes.
Rock loses to Paper.
Paper loses to Scissors.
And Scissors loses to Rock.
With that said, each playstyle has a counter and loses to another playstyle akin to Rock, Paper, Scissors.
-
So Tdude says that they are two main playstyles: Passive and Active.
Passive playstyles are generally used to keep stage control while also using it as a resource.
Meanwhile, Active playstyles are used to take stage control from the opponent.
He then breaks these down further into four more categories. They are: Passive Offense, Passive Defense, Active Offense, and Active Defense.
Passive Offense is summed up as staying outside of the opponent's range (*at the edge) and punishing them for geting to close to you.
An example of this is a Diddy Kong or a Mario player using short hop bairs whenever you get near them.
There are two ways to beat this strategy. The first, is to play a better Passive Offense than your opponent and their character.
The second, is to use "swords" vs melee attacks. These are attacks that contain disjoints with no hurtboxes.
Tdude has said that if your character lacks the options to play this style or does so poorly, then it is up to you to figure out the best way to accomplish this. The same can be applied to the other three playstyles I will cover.
The counter to Passive Offense is Active Defense.
*Think of zone of control, hit bubbles, and threat zones. Or whatever term you decide to use know the opponent's range which includes all of their moves and options.
-
Passive Defense is summed up to be running away while keeping the opponent out.
The counter to Passive Defense is Active Defense.
-
Now for Active Offense.
This is summarized as "rushdown"; which translates to opponents that focus on getting in your face. They want to press buttons, do combos and are agressive. They want to do cool combos and go for style.
Passive playstyles counter Active Offense.
Active Offense is the counter to Active Defense only if you engage during an opening.
Now if you are versus an opponent who uses Active Offense this may come in handy. If you are versus an opponent who always goes for the same option yet they only change it up once, do not change your current playstyle since they are more than likely to default back to their original option. There is more on this below during the Yomi conversation. To be exact it is the paragraph above "Side Notes" and the Side Notes paragraphs.
-
Active Defense is said to focused around misdirection and baits. This includes approaching the opponent and waiting for them to respond. In return, you can either bring up your shield, or bring up your shield and roll away. These players are trying to break the opponent's defense.
These players are looking for your reaction before you are looking for theirs.
When you force players to the ledge, you limit their options and force them to react quicker.
Use skids during runs or a turnaround while walking to bait a reaction from the opponent. You can even stop moving altogether.
If an opponent is holding the ledge, jump and airdodge through them or roll to take stage control. Proceed to grab or swat them away afterwards.
-
Now for Yomi*.
*I split this section into two parts. The first is my summary of it. The second is word for word what Tdude and ChocoTaco said during one of the videos. I cut out the dialogue inbetween where he changed topics or said something that only applied to ChocoTaco during the lesson and his character.
Yomi Levels:
You spam really good move
Opponent counters said move with a jump to avoid it
You punish the jump with a anti air
The opponent shields the anti air
Important Note: Level 4 loses to Level 1. Tdude covers this below.
Tdude version:
Tdude: “Yomi Level 0 that’s the obvious choice. The move that the offender wants to use, that’s like an obvious move.
(I cut out some dialogue)
Essentially you have a great move, and you want to use this great move. That’s the scrubadub line of thinking, the obvious choice.
Yomi Level 1 is, i know you want to use the obvious choice, so I'm going to the pick the option that beats it.
Yomi Level 2, goes with Yomi Level 1. And it’s: I know what you want, and you know that I want to use this good move. So I'm going to use a move to beat your counter attack, to this move. Cuz’ you’re predicting the obvious choice. So I’m gonna say no, I’m gonna use this move that beats that.
Yomi Level 3 is, I’m assuming you’re not a scrub, so you’re not gonna use the scrub option, you’re gonna use the counter to the scrub option, so I'm gonna use this option to beat you out.
But then the scrub says hi (Yomi Level 3 loses to Yomi Level 0).
-
"Let’s say someone who practices with top players but doesn’t practice with low level players. The top players are always going to be on Yomi Level 2 & 3. Or on 1 & 2 depending on intermediate or top players.
In order to beat a top player you have to pick Yomi Level 3 and 0. Unless they have a full understanding of Yomi, in which case you have to pick every single possible option.
This is like the general, the starting option. By default, it's going to be on 2 & 3. So in order to beat those guys, you have to be on 3 & 0.
Now what if you only practiced and only mastered 3 & 0 without understanding why 1 & 2 exists?"
ChocoTaco: "Well then you are going to get punished by 1 & 2."
Tdude: "Or 0 & 1. You know who uses 0 & 1? Scrubadubs. So this could be someone who practices with top players, but loses to random scrubs. Because they aren't fully aware of all the possible options. They aren't aware of why these options are good.
Essentially, Yomi Level 0 is the For Glory mindset. Yomi Level 1 is the edgey For Glory player. Yomi Level 2 is the intermediate player. Yomi Level 3 is the top player.
Not obviously, because in order to be a top player you have to shuffle between all of these. But that defines, that the fact of being able to adapt Yomi into your playstyle, seperates a great player from a top player.
That’s the additation. That’s the brains of the operation. That’s the smarts behind this whole thing.
In order to adapt to your opponent, quickly, as quickly as possible, you have to understand Yomi. You have to understand who your opponent is, and you have to understand what they want. You have to understand what the character wants, as well as what the player wants.”
(Skipped some more)
“...the instant you realize: ‘'Wait a second, I’m overthinking this. This is a scrub.” You realize the guy is only thinking Rock, the whole time. So you start using Paper instead of Scissors; and then the person can't adapt and then you win. This is the thing that makes you consistent.”
Side notes:
If your opponent's behavior changes without them countering the option that you land a lot, stop using it because they may have developed a counter for it. Actually disregard this. Tdude said in a later video that a player can use a different strategy or option in one instance to give the illusion that they are adapting. This causes their opponent to over-react and begin to overthink things which makes them panic. During that time, the player who just so happened to change up their options in that one instance, defaults back to Yomi Level 0 and is now able to get away with it because their opponent is expecting more out of them. Recognize the pattern if possible.
Tdude’s actual example was a hypothetical rock paper scissors tournament. There was a Rock main who always played Rock no matter what. In one game he decided to use another option after his opponent believed he had already figured out the Rock main. The Rock main’s opponent begins to panic, overthinks the situation and is now trying to develop a “counter to the counter” a.k.a Yomi Level 3.
When it is time for them to confront each other, the Rock main uses Yomi Level 0 to win.
The scrubadub tactic.
I think this just leads back into an earlier example Tdude said. It’s just another way to get thrown into that scenario. This relates to the 3rd bullet point under Active Offense.
-
Rock paper scissors method:
Passive - hold stage control
Counter: wait for them to outplay themselves (make a mistake)
Push passive people to the ledge and force them to cross through you to get to safety
Focus of match is to take a lead and play passive.
-
Pushing forward:
When in the disadvantage while recovering, hold forward and come to a stop once you see your opponent starts to move.
This will help you gain some stage control when your opponent decides to give up some of theirs to follow your drift.
Following people’s drift in the air can get really predictable since many players may never stop holding forward when recovering while in the air*.
This is one of the reaaons why players will fall into smash attacks. Pushing forward, also let's the opponent know that you are planning to retaliate with an option of some sort which can appear to be an aggro or Active Offense playstyle.
I think the safer option would be to instead drift towards the ledge.
Just came across images that explains Tdude's playstyles much quicker than I did. This comes straight from his Discord server and it fills in on some stuff that I missed.
So I decided to talk about the different playstyles from Tdude's perspective with the hopes of explaining ranges through that method. I was unable to come up with a straight answer, so I took the opportunity to go in-depth over this topic.
I thought I covered that but if I did not, my bad. I was trying to show that there was no one specific answer like "play at X range for the entire match and victory is yours".
I was trying to show that depending on the players, the characters, the Yomi Levels, and the playstyles used in a given match, the preferred ranges that you want to play at can change. If the player you are facing shows that they are willing to adapt, then the ideal ranges can changes multiple times in the course of a match or a set. Vice versa for if they choose not to adapt. Now you are allowed to continue with your current playstyle and in turn, range, since it has proven effective and the opponent has been unsuccessful in finding the counter to your play.
The second post was a shortened version of the first post that can be easier to understand for some, in the case that the first post confused or intimidated readers.
That is why I decided to add it. It also goes over a few things I missed in the previous post.
If what I posted does not make sense or missed the mark, another user can try explaining fighting ranges.
Taunting is a mindgame in itself. If you let it get to you, you will most likely start losing even more, because anger blinds you. Why did it anger you? Because he took a stock and taunted? When you think about it, getting angry over taunts or even tea bagging is very trivial. In fact, if they take a stock off of you and taunt, then taunt back once you leave the halo. This might show them that to you, what they did was cool. It might show them that you don't care if they take a stock and taunt at you. Aside from that, screw For Glory. People generally don't act that way if you're interacting with them through chat. For Glory has jerks who will leave whenever. So it's great when a top player destroys them and gives them the same treatment.
His strategy was to taunt you to the point of anger, and it clearly worked. The whole purpose of a taunt is to provoke your opponent and make them mad, and in Smash this puts you on tilt and makes you play worse. If you want my advise, try seeing it as less of a taunt and more of just a button press, because that’s really all it is.
To add on to what Wonderfly said, taunting is a strategy. If you get provoked that means it worked. I could link a Core-A Gaming video where he talks about but I do not think it is necessary.
Sure we can use it as an online-only excuse but players can do them offline too.
In my case, if I take a stock or send the opponent far offstage, I'm going to spam moving crouches to teabag. Does this mean I'm a bad person? Does this mean that I am rude and disrespecting them? No.
If the opponent assumes any of those things and has even a small pinch of an ego, then that means my taunt was successful.
It's just another strategy in fighting games to help secure a win. To me, the only players who would get miffed over that would be casuals.
I learned to employ teabagging from the a local Yoshi main in my scene who does insane teabagging and disrespect when he can, especially after shield breaks. He practically runs all over the stage and then has enough time to come back and kill you.
To add on to what Wonderfly said, taunting is a strategy. If you get provoked that means it worked. I could link a Core-A Gaming video where he talks about but I do not think it is necessary.
Sure we can use it as an online-only excuse but players can do them offline too.
In my case, if I take a stock or send the opponent far offstage, I'm going to spam moving crouches to teabag. Does this mean I'm a bad person? Does this mean that I am rude and disrespecting them? No.
If the opponent assumes any of those things and has even a small pinch of an ego, then that means my taunt was successful.
It's just another strategy in fighting games to help secure a win. To me, the only players who would get miffed over that would be casuals.
I use taunts fairly often for this reason. As a Peach main, I have one of the most aggravating taunts in the game (The one where she sings "Lalalalalala" tauntingly while dancing). If I can use this to annoy and frustrate my opponents to a point where they start playing recklessly, then the match becomes a lot easier for me. Their anger blinds them and they begin to lose focus and patience, which is easy for me to take advantage of and taunt them even more.
Not exactly taunt related, but I used to impose a rule on myself: never use PSI Magnet to gimp another Ness and Lucas player.
I've been told that was bad idea on my part since I was making matches harder than they should be. Once I lifted that ban, I felt so much better and it helped to push my lead in a match too.
Edit: There is a casual rule-list floating around for some Smash Club, and reading it is ridiculous. All these so-called "fair" rules that we put on ourselves stunt us as competitive players. They only exist to make the losing player feel less bad which should be none of our concern. We can teach them what they did wrong after the set. If they fail to adapt and want to throw a fit, then that is on them.
I don't have an answer to deal with rage but I do have an answer about the strategy that he used.
Since he was able to spam smash attacks and constantly hit you that means that you never adapted during that set. So the other player had no need to change up their playstyle since you could not find a counter to it.
I'm going to edit this post with some quotes I made in the CCI thread. They can help you beat this strategy and even employ it in offline play if the chance arises.
I think I have already said this before, but if possible play offline. I know you have a group of friends that you play with as you posted a video before. If can, play with them and try to practice the stuff we have shared with you. That Sonic player in particulary played like he came from For Glory. So even better. It's like a 1-1 comparison, only you have the choice to play with internet lag or not.
I have not played full Glory online in quite some time, so I had completely forgotten there is a small amount of lag which will cause your attacks to come out slower and make things a little more tedious. I've been playing more matches online since trying to adjust and I'm doing a little bit better day by day. I wasn't so much upset about the taunting because I do it to occasionally, but more so that it felt like he was just toying around and not taking it seriously. Felt kind of insulted and I began to rage lol
Taunting is a mindgame in itself. If you let it get to you, you will most likely start losing even more, because anger blinds you. Why did it anger you? Because he took a stock and taunted? When you think about it, getting angry over taunts or even tea bagging is very trivial. In fact, if they take a stock off of you and taunt, then taunt back once you leave the halo. This might show them that to you, what they did was cool. It might show them that you don't care if they take a stock and taunt at you. Aside from that, screw For Glory. People generally don't act that way if you're interacting with them through chat. For Glory has jerks who will leave whenever. So it's great when a top player destroys them and gives them the same treatment.
It wasn't so much the taunting, just felt like he was toying around with me and not taking it seriously making it out to be nothing but a gigantic joke. That's the part that made me rage lol but I only started playing for Glory online because I can't attend my locals every week like I used to so I still need to get some practice in outside of playing a level 8 computer. We also lost our daily smashes at school because some people are falling behind on their studies. So for Glory was all I had at the moment and I tried to take advantage of it but wasn't aware that these buttholes were still lurking around LOL now that I know I need to be better prepared and start learning to work better around the constant lag or occasional lag that I experience online
I wasn't able to take advantage of Smash ladder until I got my internet back. Now that I have it back, I'm going to be using that and full Glory outside of my locals whenever I can attend in order to keep practicing against Real humans and not predictable computers
Sounds a lot like some of the local tournaments I have been to LOL A couple of people passed me up on friendly simply because I wasn't on a professional level so I am not able to get as much practice as I would like against stronger players at some locals and some tournaments. Which is why I picked up full Glory so I can still get some practice against humans versus just depending solely on a predictable CPU
I use taunts fairly often for this reason. As a Peach main, I have one of the most aggravating taunts in the game (The one where she sings "Lalalalalala" tauntingly while dancing). If I can use this to annoy and frustrate my opponents to a point where they start playing recklessly, then the match becomes a lot easier for me. Their anger blinds them and they begin to lose focus and patience, which is easy for me to take advantage of and taunt them even more.
I wasn't too bothered by the taunting because I do it myself but more so how he wasn't taking it too seriously and was just throwing out the same smash attacks to F with me which caused me to just run into them strictly out of rage and not being more careful. It was also my first time playing for Glory online in a few months, so I completely forgot about some of the input lag that is there which caused me to make simple mistakes that he capitalized off of
Not exactly taunt related, but I used to impose a rule on myself: never use PSI Magnet to gimp another Ness and Lucas player.
I've been told that was bad idea on my part since I was making matches harder than they should be. Once I lifted that ban, I felt so much better and it helped to push my lead in a match too.
Edit: There is a casual rule-list floating around for some Smash Club, and reading it is ridiculous. All these so-called "fair" rules that we put on ourselves stunt us as competitive players. They only exist to make the losing player feel less bad which should be none of our concern. We can teach them what they did wrong after the set. If they fail to adapt and want to throw a fit, then that is on them.
this is a little off topic but I have been practicing against computer this is a little off topic but I have been practicing against computer Ness and Lucas players and the other day I noticed that randomly out of nowhere the computer throughout a side magnet even though I was playing Marth and I don't have any projectiles LOL he was literally on the edge of the stage and he just threw it out, I thought that was weird
I know to do so now, it had been quite a while since I've played for Glory online and I completely forgot about some of the input lag and how some players would take advantage of it if you are knowledgeable of it or have not adjusted to it. I was little more peeved about him not taking the match seriously and not so much the taunting because I do that myself from time to time although I have recently stopped taunting unless I know the player will start to fall apart mentally. Because I flew into a rage I was not able to predict his attacks nor was I able to effectively come back from that actual taunt and instead just lose my cool and the match all together
I have not played full Glory online in quite some time, so I had completely forgotten there is a small amount of lag which will cause your attacks to come out slower and make things a little more tedious. I've been playing more matches online since trying to adjust and I'm doing a little bit better day by day. I wasn't so much upset about the taunting because I do it to occasionally, but more so that it felt like he was just toying around and not taking it seriously. Felt kind of insulted and I began to rage lol
It wasn't so much the taunting, just felt like he was toying around with me and not taking it seriously making it out to be nothing but a gigantic joke. That's the part that made me rage lol but I only started playing for Glory online because I can't attend my locals every week like I used to so I still need to get some practice in outside of playing a level 8 computer. We also lost our daily smashes at school because some people are falling behind on their studies. So for Glory was all I had at the moment and I tried to take advantage of it but wasn't aware that these buttholes were still lurking around LOL now that I know I need to be better prepared and start learning to work better around the constant lag or occasional lag that I experience online
I wasn't able to take advantage of Smash ladder until I got my internet back. Now that I have it back, I'm going to be using that and full Glory outside of my locals whenever I can attend in order to keep practicing against Real humans and not predictable computers
Sounds a lot like some of the local tournaments I have been to LOL A couple of people passed me up on friendly simply because I wasn't on a professional level so I am not able to get as much practice as I would like against stronger players at some locals and some tournaments. Which is why I picked up full Glory so I can still get some practice against humans versus just depending solely on a predictable CPU
I wasn't too bothered by the taunting because I do it myself but more so how he wasn't taking it too seriously and was just throwing out the same smash attacks to F with me which caused me to just run into them strictly out of rage and not being more careful. It was also my first time playing for Glory online in a few months, so I completely forgot about some of the input lag that is there which caused me to make simple mistakes that he capitalized off of
this is a little off topic but I have been practicing against computer this is a little off topic but I have been practicing against computer Ness and Lucas players and the other day I noticed that randomly out of nowhere the computer throughout a side magnet even though I was playing Marth and I don't have any projectiles LOL he was literally on the edge of the stage and he just threw it out, I thought that was weird
I know to do so now, it had been quite a while since I've played for Glory online and I completely forgot about some of the input lag and how some players would take advantage of it if you are knowledgeable of it or have not adjusted to it. I was little more peeved about him not taking the match seriously and not so much the taunting because I do that myself from time to time although I have recently stopped taunting unless I know the player will start to fall apart mentally. Because I flew into a rage I was not able to predict his attacks nor was I able to effectively come back from that actual taunt and instead just lose my cool and the match all together
It wasn't so much the taunting, just felt like he was toying around with me and not taking it seriously making it out to be nothing but a gigantic joke. That's the part that made me rage lol but I only started playing for Glory online because I can't attend my locals every week like I used to so I still need to get some practice in outside of playing a level 8 computer. We also lost our daily smashes at school because some people are falling behind on their studies. So for Glory was all I had at the moment and I tried to take advantage of it but wasn't aware that these buttholes were still lurking around LOL now that I know I need to be better prepared and start learning to work better around the constant lag or occasional lag that I experience online
I suppose For Glory does wonders for some players, but for the most part, I come across players who aren't overwhelming me. That's not to say I'm really good at this game, but I need at least some pressure that I can try to learn to deal with. Also, there aren't any stages with platforms to practice on. And then the occasional lag, of course. But you can always just SD and level the room afterwards, so I guess it's not all bad. Also, if you're going to practice against CPUs, it would be best to fight a level 3 CPU and just practice your combos on them, and not so much making it about winning against them. It's something ZeRo said in one of his old vids on how to be a better player. Try to join Smashcords if you can so you can interact and play with people online. Anther's Ladder is another place, but I haven't seen too much activity there like it was earlier on, which is unfortunate. You can do friendlies and ranked matches there.
