Tujex
Smash Ace
I rarely time my punches well enough to get the SA effect out of the Africa Pawnch, so a 9 punch will probably work better for me.
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These are of course with no di right?Hey, Big O, I finally got around to putting the rough KO values in a table. I hope it’s to your liking …
I guess it’s obvious, but if you graph the two data sets, you can see that they have the same shapes — it’s just that one’s above the other. How much higher are the 9-Punch values? Well, the average difference between the damage % needed to KO is 23, which is an impressive statistic!
Hope this helps out a bit with your great guide. Thanks for all your hard work working this stuff out.
Actually if you do not DI the hit or airdodge/aerial of of hitstun to jump earlier the numbers in the chart are 100% accurate (those numbers were KO figures for the most basic form of recovery). I didn't feel like DI'ing and aerial/airdodging to get out of hitstun earlier for each char because it would be a lot harder to test by myself and much more time consuming to check all the possible ways to survive. For your reference the knockback at those %'s in the chart were about 6150-6350 mph (due to different characters jumps stalling momentum better than others).Yeah, those values are really just a rough guide. It occurred to me that calculating the damage numbers using MrSilver’s calculations and tabulating those, based on the numbers you gave, Big O, would be a lot more useful.
However, I’m a bit confused.
Firstly, the PAL version — as you might expect — deals with speed in km/h. The Japanese version would undoubtedly do the same. However, the thing is that the values don’t correspond at all when converted. MrSilver commented that the mph values the game spits out seem arbitrary, so obviously the conversion the game does is wrong. For example, give Mario a steamer at exactly 50% damage, and he’ll go flying at 107km/h (66.5mph), a number which makes a lot more sense than 5329mph (based on your numbers). That’s beside the point, however.
I mention this because I wanted to try out your numbers for the punch, just to make sure the observed values match the expected before I went ahead and made a table.
(Incidentally, I got ~1.15 and ~15.65 km/h for knockback growth and base knockback respectively, and using MrSilver’s calculations [but excluding falling speed], the speeds I get are “correct” [±5 km/h] for the couple of characters and several initial damage amounts I tested.)
Since I can’t check it out myself, I just wanted to make sure you were confident about those numbers.
Another thing — when you figured out the “death zone” from the middle of FD, can you describe for my benefit exactly how you DI’d? Straight up, or perpendicular to the launch direction? Any smash DI? Trying to airdodge out of hitstun?
It’s no big deal, I’d just like to find the numbers that opponents wouldn’t have any hope after when they’re perfectly 9-punched.
So if you have confidence that 7600 “mph” is the point of no return, then I’ll just run it by my calculator and make up a table in a flash.
(Sorry for the long post.)
i've been practicing it a bit, and maybe its just me, but its totally not possible for my to double tap B faster than 7 frames apart.The double tap has to be 7 frames apart. Double tapping too fast will do nothing though so its better too slow than too fast. If you don't see any sparkles then you did it perfectly.
Lol I guess too much Mario Party (the old one on N64) helped speed up my mashing because I have to consciously slow down to get it right.i've been practicing it a bit, and maybe its just me, but its totally not possible for my to double tap B faster than 7 frames apart.
guess thats a good thing
Yeah I found this out in like April but never actually tried seeing how much stronger it was until like June. It's funny how many games I barely won because I 9 punched them at like 50%. Huge momentum changer.DK's has lots of advantages, this is amazing. I figured this out to and was going make a page on it, but to my surprise you had already made this a month before I did. DK's 9 punch is is almost as strong as a fully charged fsamsh from him, it only only kills about 3% later.
Yeah I really prefer it by a mile...Call me crazy, but I prefer the max charge punch over the nine punch. It has more range, and SA. It's also easier to pull off.
Bad DI ftw?lol, i killed a fox at 27% yesterday with a reverse 9 punch at the edge of smashville during an aib ladder match. :D
(but i usually just use the full charge lol)
Hm in training mode Marios dies (in the middle of fd) from the fsmash at 75 % and from the fully charged punch at 67 %. So I guess you could say the KO-% difference is about 8 %.Btw, does anyone know what the KO-% difference is from DKs fsmash (charged and uncharged) and steam-punch? Which is stronger, and by how much?
couple things, the fsmash is much easier to DI, in that it hits them at a more DI-able angle. you should also note that the 3% charged fsmash will ko 20% lower than the uncharged..Hm in training mode Marios dies (in the middle of fd) from the fsmash at 75 % and from the fully charged punch at 67 %. So I guess you could say the KO-% difference is about 8 %.
That means you can could save your giant punch and KO your opponent with a fsmash instead... but you could charge your punch after you hit him anyway until he's back lol.
From a fully charged fsmash Mario dies at 42 %, from a 9-punch at 51 %.
Summary:
Mario in the middle of FD (in training mode) and no DI dies at:
fsmash: 75 %
charged fsmash: 42 %
steamer punch: 67 %
9-punch: 51 %
That are really nice numbers, too bad that with DI it's about 40 % more...
I mostly did this for myself, but maybe it helps someone else too...
Btw, I just got an idea. You could heatbutt your opponent into the ground and then charge an upsmash right above them which kills mario at 36 % (no DI and WITH headbutt (so it's 46 % then)). They can't airdodge until they've reached the highest point of their jump out of the ground. You'd need good timing with the upsmash though, but I guess this is off topic here. ^^'
My responses are in Cyan.The good thing about the giant punch is that it has SA. It has good range, is strong and isn't that slow.
I get hit more often by the punch when DK isn't steaming and giving off its charged. It's like "I see you....." so I'm on my guard more. It's like the difference of seeing Peach's Stich Turnip, or having her facing so you can't see the face. (Or if you forget Snake has his c4 planted on a platform....)
Also, I'm good at avoiding the SA frames. I find they don't bother me at all.
The only times I hit with it are:
*very rarely a surprise/mindgame into it
*almost all of the time: I hit my enemy while he's also doing an attack and I don't get any knockback, because of the SA
*sometimes if I hit with a headbutt I can use it
1. Sometimes, I mostly forget you guys can B-Reverse it. although I get hit by it less and less.
2. I rarely, if EVER get hit by a well-spaced charged punch.
3. This happens more then the SA frames saving the DK. I NEVER forget those SA Frames are there, and avoid laggy moves when I see a STEAMING DK.
Now the damage from the giant punch is important and it REALLY helps KOing your opponent and it's most important thing why it works is it's SA.
Only if the opponent isn't already in KO %'s. You realize the first part means nothing if they die SOONER anyways? If someone dies @ 38% from a 9 punch, and 48% from a steamed punch, that extra 6% means **** because its already factored in.
So if I'd use the 9-punch I won't have the damage done by the giant punch anymore (which means I'll KO my opponent later). And it's also not easy to get in a headbutt so you can use it... this means that I'd lose more than what I'd get if I use the 9-punch more. =/
If the 9 punch KO's sooner, your argument is ****. Also what does the headbutt have to do with getting a punch in? You're not making any sense
In Melee Giant Punch is stronger when full charged than 9 charged unlike Brawl. In Melee hrc people use full charge.Actually, his punch is the same way in Melee. 9 charges is stronger (not sure about the damage it does) and it makes a different sound. Whether it makes you invincible like the full one does, I'm not sure.
Then why top records in HRC with DK are done with the full charge?^ I think he was talking about the punch having more knockback at 9 winds in melee, not more damage