Sonic and the invincible Up Smash! UPDATED with video. 5/06/08

[CaliburChamp]

While playing against a snake player on Wi-fi vs my Sonic, there was a time when Snake dropped a C4 on Sonic while sonic was using his upsmash. The explosion did not phase him at all.
It seems like while Sonic is spinning in the air with his up-smash he is invisible for a few frames. I have a video showing this. I'll have to upload it. Sonic just keeps on getting better.

At 1:14-1:20 you can see that Snakes explosive didnt harm Sonic while in the up smash animation. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=37k3BF9RbKQ

 

[ROOOOY!]

Do you mean invincible, or am I being thick?
Did it do no damage or have any effect whatsoever?

 

[CaliburChamp]

There was no damage inflicted either.

 

[R4ZE]

i doubt he is invincible, i think his character space just goes above the ground, thus moving him out of the mine's hitbox.

but even if he did get hit while executing his usmash, it probly would have just clang canceled everything.

 

[Dragonbreath]

Actually, I was playing an Online match earlier today, and the exact same thing happened. It was a missile, not a mine, though. But it was still the upsmash, and it kept me from flying off FD. I didn't win the match though. D:

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think its because Sonic isin the air abd away from the actual hitbox. Are you sure it hit you?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Isn't he saying that it was ON Sonic not under him?

 

[R4ZE]

maybe if your character is on the ground, the explosion acts like a standrad ground-mine-explosion.

good call anyway terios, your right i neglected that.

maybe sonic's usmash has SA frames.

 

[PK-ow!]

SOnic negated the explosion damage, just the way any attack can outprioritize another.

Some Zelda players aware aware that a properly timed aerial can protect a character from Din's Fire, for example.

It goes against all real-world expectation to negate a concussive force, but hey, it's Smash.

I expect Snake's C4 can only be negated in this way when the C4 blows up in the air.

 

[Piccolo_Z]

I'm pretty sure I know what is happening.


To recap, all sonics spin attacks are immune to snakes missiles and mortars.

downb, sideb, upsmash, nair.(these are the ones i tested for sure work, I assume the other spin attacks work too).


In the case of snakes missiles, if they come into contact with sonic while spining, they will simply be deflected and sonic will be on his merry way unharmed.

If snake uses his up smash mortar and you are above him, just nair and it will eat the mortar like a piece of candy, which is funny because otherwise this move has low priority.

However in regards to the c4, if it was planted on him perhaps the spin attacks are immune to c4 as well.

I tested, however, that if snake does down smash mine, sonic will get caught in it when spindashing/charging.

However, I did not test c4 on the ground while sonic is spindashing/charging.

 

[FrostByte]

Too fast for the naked eye.

Lolinvisible.

 

[Browny]

Sonics upsmash has very high priority at some points, ive seen it go through stuff like Toon Link's Dair. If you watch it in super slow motion, there is a period where sonic stands up, looking as if hes powering up super-saiyan style, i think that might be the point of super high priority.

 

[R4ZE]

i bet some attacks in brawl gian super armor depending on how long they are charged.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm uploading the video now to youtube. You will see what I mean soon enough.

 

[CaliburChamp]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=37k3BF9RbKQ

1:14-1:20 in the video, you'll see what I mean.

 

[The_Dyne]

Look sort of like the Usmash "jumped" over the C4 explosion.

 

[R4ZE]

well the explosion still happened on the ground, so i think sonic was considered above the explosion by the games mechanics.

 

[CaliburChamp]

This is kind of useful for deactivating snakes mines and c4 I would imagine. Just doing a dashing up smash to deactivate those c4 or mines. New technique for dealing with snake!

 

[Tenki]

Sonics upsmash has very high priority at some points, ive seen it go through stuff like Toon Link's Dair. If you watch it in super slow motion, there is a period where sonic stands up, looking as if hes powering up super-saiyan style, i think that might be the point of super high priority.

Are you talking about the initial jump to the upsmash? Because I noticed that if that part hits, it tends to make it so that people get knocked out of the up-smash prematurely D:

So I have to do sliding/early upsmashes to actually do damage.

Also, it seems like, if that's the point you were talking about, there's no super armor or invincibility there.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Actually, its one of two possibilities. Either sonic has super armor while performing up smash, or he hops over the mine with up smash. Im not exactly sure... I'll have to watch that video again. But its one of those two possibilities.
EDIT: I looked at the video again. And snake drops the c4 onto sonic, and it sticks to sonic, then sonic begins his up smash and thats when the C4 explodes, and you can see that sonic is caught in the explosion, so Sonic's upsmash must have super armor. This is a really good thing for Sonic.

 

[thecatinthehat]

You can't stick C4 just by dropping it onto them.

 

[Aran]

He does not jump over the mine, going out of its hitbox, although that may appear at first to be what's happening. Snake's C4 can be on the main level of battlefield and still hit someone standing on the low platforms, from my experience. You shouldn't be able to just hop over it with an up smash.

 

[@ce]

that looks like straight up super armor. hes clearly in the explosion.

 

[Hashire Kazemeijin]

I'd say it's more invincibility that Super Armor because Sonic's % doesn't increase. If it was Super Armor, he would still take damage but not flinch.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Off topic. I am awe inspired by your name.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'd say it's more invincibility that Super Armor because Sonic's % doesn't increase. If it was Super Armor, he would still take damage but not flinch.

There are 2 types of super armor. The unflinchable Aether Ike has that deals damage but no knockback. And then there is the superior super armor like Kirby's Stone, which takes no damage or knockback. Sonic's Up smash super armor is in the same group of super armor as Kirby's Stone.
And I just did some testing again in training mode, and after doing this multiple times, I noticed the explosion is big enough to damage sonic from the distance of his up smash. But it wont harm sonic while he is performing his up smash. So its official. Sonic's upsmash does have super armor as long as Sonic is spinning in the air.

 

[Tenki]

There are 2 types of super armor. The unflinchable Aether Ike has that deals damage but no knockback. And then there is the superior super armor like Kirby's Stone, which takes no damage or knockback. Sonic's Up smash super armor is in the same group of super armor as Kirby's Stone.
And I just did some testing again in training mode, and after doing this multiple times, I noticed the explosion is big enough to damage sonic from the distance of his up smash. But it wont harm sonic while he is performing his up smash. So its official. Sonic's upsmash does have super armor as long as Sonic is spinning in the air.

Super armor frames (SAF) refer to the kind where you do take damage but get no knockback.

Invulnerability is different from SAF.

Also, thanks for clearing that up :D

 

[disguy]

i think it was stated somewhere that when sonic performs his upsmash, he is invulnerable to any attacks below him. that could explain why the c4 expolsion didn't affect him.

 

[PK-ow!]

I'm pretty sure I know what is happening.


To recap, all sonics spin attacks are immune to snakes missiles and mortars.

ooohhhh.... I get it. Sakurai's doing.

This is flavour.

Sonic spin > Robotnik's machines > Military grade weaponry = Snake's equipment

Transitivity implies Sonic spin > Snake's equipment

And to clear things up: So, there's Super armor, Invulnerability, and Invincibility? Super Armor eats knockback, Invulnerability eats damage and knockback, and Invinicibility = no hitbox at all?

 

[JiangWei23]

ooohhhh.... I get it. Sakurai's doing.

This is flavour.

Sonic spin > Robotnik's machines > Military grade weaponry = Snake's equipment

Transitivity implies Sonic spin > Snake's equipment

My god, if Sakurai thought that far ahead then the man has my respect.

I didn't know that all of Sonic's spinning moves out prioritize Snake's technological weapons. Wow.

 

[R4ZE]

i think it was stated somewhere that when sonic performs his upsmash, he is invulnerable to any attacks below him. that could explain why the c4 expolsion didn't affect him.

well i have beaten out some nasty attacks with sonic's usmash.

i cant remember exactly but it was definately g&W's key, or toonlinks dair, or quite possibly both. My vote is, atleast SA if not invulnerability frames.


I'll test more when i get time.

 

[Deathwish238]

i think he just jumped out of the way but i agree it DOES have very high priority i have caught lucario in his dair and sonic's usmash just sucks him in sometimes but i think you have to time it right for sonic's usmash to be really effective.

 

[R4ZE]

its easy to find out for sure, some one test it against ike's neutral B both timed correctly, see what happens.

 

[Piccolo_Z]

I remember I used upsmash against bowser bomb and wolfs upb angled down. It beat them both.

I feel that sonic truly has invincibility frames on it. I was watching spectator mode one day, kirby did his downward rock move and sonic inadvertently did upsmash. Sonic continued the smash as if kirby's rock wasn't even there.

 

[FrostByte]

If this is the case then it's really good that Sonic can do something (else) constructive out of a dash. Sucks that it's so laggy though.

 

[R4ZE]

if this is true, then that would mean sonic has 3 moves that have invincibilty frames, thats pretty good i think.

 

[CaliburChamp]

If this is the case then it's really good that Sonic can do something (else) constructive out of a dash. Sucks that it's so laggy though.

I think its even better that the upsmash does have ending lag, that means he has more invincibility frames. Sonic is unharmed while performing his up smash, so he cant really get punished for it. And the upsmash starts up quick for a smash attack.
And also I was playing a match today and did Sonic's upsmash while the Wario player farted right onto it, and it did no damage or knockback. Seems like sonic has more priority than we thought.
This would also be great against wario's bike, just run up towards the bike, or wait til the bike is about to hit you and upsmash. It requires some timing, but it shouldnt be too hard to get good at it. Other examples would be ganon's and c. falcons side B, you can cancel their attack with upsmash while hitting them at the same time.

 

[The_Dyne]

Look at about 2:55 to 3:00, Sonic does a Usmash, and seems invulnerable to Marth's Fair
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn9RWlhsl5Q

 

[Shadow5YA]

Sonic's upsmash has multiple hits, so I'm guessing a few of them have high priority. We don't specifically know the properties of each hit though. For example, a while ago people thought you could DI the usmash and send the opponent downward, while in reality the second to last hit just has that property. I know one of the usmash hits has tripping properties too, since I used it on an enemy on a platform above, and he tripped right after he got hit. If there was only a way to separate each hit....

 

[Tenki]

Look at about 2:55 to 3:00, Sonic does a Usmash, and seems invulnerable to Marth's Fair
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn9RWlhsl5Q

silly, he was behind Marth and then he did u-smash.

you're too slow D: