Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Sensane]

I think that we've kinda reached that point lol.

Also, I thank the lord that labor day weekend has finally begun for me. NO PRACTICE FOR THREE DAYS!!!

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Good job at collision Camalange

Youre getting kinda decent maybe

 

[Sensane]

Yeah gj beating 6wx in sonic dittos. Did you guys go to omega windy hill?

 

[Camalange]

Glad to see someone giving Link and Roy the respect they diverse

Honestly like this tier list more than the official one

I don't think Roy is total garbage like most, and I think Link is secretly good while being blatantly bad.

At least I agree with Olimar, he's a dormant beast, a lot won't realize it's there unless they play against one.

Yeah, there are very few Olimars (thank god) but he's still solid.

Good job at collision Camalange

Youre getting kinda decent maybe

I guess I'm alright. Thanks.

Yeah gj beating 6wx in sonic dittos. Did you guys go to omega windy hill?

Thank you.

Nah, we didn't. I had a feeling he would be better than me on FD so I decided to avoid it.

I ended up placing 5th out of 147 entrants. Beat Blue 3-1 too. Lost to Nairo and ZeRo, lol. Pretty crazy tournament. Probably my best yet.

Took 7th in teams with Sinji, only losing to the top 2 teams (what luck). Sinji also made top 8 with PAC-MAN which was awesome.

 

[Sensane]

So what did everyone think about zero saying sonic is top 2 in the game and diddy at 7th? What did everyone think about his tier list in general?

 

[Syndralix]

HMM

So what did everyone think about zero saying sonic is top 2 in the game and diddy at 7th? What did everyone think about his tier list in general?

You can't convince me that Sonic goes even with Rosa.

I find Marth and Lucina questionable.

Those are the only real objections I had to the tier list. Everything else makes sense, and in the end it is just his o-peen-ion.

 

[The Merc]

I don't think Roy is total garbage like most, and I think Link is secretly good while being blatantly bad.

Yaaaaa! More people who respect Roy:D And Link!

HMM

*Lucario high Top Tier

*Pit and Dark Pit worst then Lucina and Marth

Okay ZeRo, Okay. Good joke

 

[Camalange]

So what did everyone think about zero saying sonic is top 2 in the game and diddy at 7th? What did everyone think about his tier list in general?

It gave me a good chuckle.

 

[Sensane]

Really when I heard that he got sonic matchup advice from wrath I kinda facepalmed while laughing at the same time. Wrath is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he asked for advice from a 14 year old player who believes that sonic goes even with pre patch zss. Instead of like, ya know......6wx. Yeah he mentioned opinions of komo and ken, but he didn't really say where he got their matchup charts.

Also he probably ignored an obvious diddy combo: banana throw to d tilt to grab combo. Deals over 30 damage.

 

[Syndralix]

It gave me a good chuckle.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That list was going downhill almost since its beginning.
Gunner is the best out of the 1111 Miis, Little Mac and Wario were criminally underrated, and I lost any hope for the list to improve in the future when I heard his analysis on IKE, so I don't really have a comment from that point on.

 

[Sensane]

To be fair he did have some good points, like mii swordfighter last place instead of puff, but overall I thought it was pretty bad. But hey, at least he actually looks into all of the characters instead of labelling their viability based on whether or not they have anything op *cough cough* dabuz *cough cough*.

 

[The Merc]

To be fair he did have some good points, like mii swordfighter last place instead of puff, but overall I thought it was pretty bad. But hey, at least he actually looks into all of the characters instead of labelling their viability based on whether or not they have anything op *cough cough* dabuz *cough cough*.

Bull Mii Sword Fighter is last place character. That is just rubbish.

 

[Sensane]

Bull Mii Sword Fighter is last place character. That is just rubbish.

It's not that unreasonable at all; with the 1111 moveset he has a bad projectile and a predictable recovery. Even with customs he isn't that great; he has plenty of startup and ending lag in his moves, he has terrible mobility, not much range for a swordsman, and a bad recovery. Mii swordsman and puff are probably the closest it comes to unviable characters.

 

[The Merc]

It's not that unreasonable at all; with the 1111 moveset he has a bad projectile and a predictable recovery. Even with customs he isn't that great; he has plenty of startup and ending lag in his moves, he has terrible mobility, not much range for a swordsman, and a bad recovery. Mii swordsman and puff are probably the closest it comes to unviable characters.

While i can somewhat agree with you on the 1111 moveset, outside of that you really don't seem to understand the character to much. That's just the vibe i'm getting from what your saying

 

[Sensane]

Teach me oh wise mercenary! No seriously, what does the character do? Outside of chakram shenanigans I don't really see much in his moveset.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Idk man, sonic is pretty fantastic. I think hes 3rd, at the least.

 

[Sensane]

Idk man, sonic is pretty fantastic. I think hes 3rd, at the least.

Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8 no h8

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Im bein 100 with yall. If not 3rd, 4th or 5th, under sheik. Not 2nd, but pretty close.

 

[The Merc]

Teach me oh wise mercenary! No seriously, what does the character do? Outside of chakram shenanigans I don't really see much in his moveset.

To put it in short, The Mii Sword Fighter can easy be akin to Link (minus clawshot) or even like an Ike + Marth.

Someone once told with projectiles on he plays very akin to Young Link and i have to say i generally agree

Look i'm not saying Mii Sword Fighter is some top tier beast with customs on and with 1111 he doesn't really shine to much

But he is in no way one of the worst character with customs on

 

[Sensane]

To put it in short, The Mii Sword Fighter can easy be akin to Link (minus clawshot) or even like an Ike + Marth.

Someone once told with projectiles on he plays very akin to Young Link and i have to say i generally agree

Look i'm not saying Mii Sword Fighter is some top tier beast with customs on and with 1111 he doesn't really shine to much

But he is in no way one of the worst character with customs on

Aha I see.

Im bein 100 with yall. If not 3rd, 4th or 5th, under sheik. Not 2nd, but pretty close.

Two words: kill confirms. Sonic only has one super inconsistent kill confirm that requires super strict timing, a small percent range, and hopes that your opponent doesn't have a reliable combo breaker. If you really think about it, sonic is a little too honest to be top 5 (relative to the other top tiers I mean). He doesn't exactly have any abusable tools that can seal stocks with ease like the other top tiers. Heck, even characters lower tier than sonic have kill confirms or abusable exploits (ROB with beep boop, greninja with nair or dtilt into usmash (dash attack to fair will true combo into a kill by the ledge at 80 with no rage btw), ryu and bayo with frikkin everything). Also people kinda overexaggerate his campig ability. It's fantastic, don't get me wrong, but he can easily be outcamped by a majority of characters with strong camping abilities (sheik, cloud, rob, etc.). Maybe I'm going a little into too much detail, but eh.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic's definitely top 10. Sonic's probably top 5. Sonic's maybe top 3. Sonic's definitely not higher than 3.

 

[The Merc]

And people will still complain about spindash spamming

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I think you may be looking at it in a linear light, Sensane . Although i do get exactly where youre coming from, sonics toolkit as a package is very very very good when matched up against the vast majority of the roster.

Im not saying hes as good as zero says. But i am saying i see where hes coming from. Our little blue ball is a very strong force in smash4

Also, if this game was all about kill confirms, we'd have a completely different tier list. Again, i see exactly what youre saying. I just think thats a pretty linear focus on what makes a character, as a whole, better than others.

 

[Sensane]

I never said it was what makes a character I'm just saying that it's an option that most other top tiers have that sonic doesn't.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Ah okay. My b.

 

[Sensane]

I'm not trying to prove my point or anything but I'd thought that I'd list some disadvantageous matchups for sonic based on general consensus and [a little bit of] my opinion.

Hard loss:


Hard loss in theory:


Not so bad of a loss but still not great:


Slight disadvantage in theory:

 

[The Merc]

Lucario? Really? I mean, i know he is scary AF when he gets his arua up, but apart from that, his just a pretty average character isn't he?

 

[Sytal]

Lucario is a surprisingly interesting MU for Sonic. I don't think we lose it outright, but it can be pretty even in my experience.
Despite his recovery and aura, we can gimp pretty comfortably and we still have the mobility advantage even with aura sphere present.

 

[Syndralix]

The big danger Lucario presents comes into play if you can't kill him before 100%, and without any reliable kill confirms that becomes quite tricky for Sonic if Lucario goes on the defensive.

 

[Sensane]

I get a lot of lucario experience since one of the top indiana players mains lucario. And he's very defensive. Lucario is probably the most underrated character imo; I personally feel that he could be top 10.

Remember this is by general opinion over what I actually think. If it was all my opinion, lucario wouldn't be such a hard loss and fox would 't even be on there anywhere.

 

[Camalange]

Lucario hard countered Sonic in Brawl.

That is no longer the case, but some of the problems still exist.

Probably an even match-up.

 

[The Merc]

Oh okay. Well i mean i knew Lucario was a threat if you didn't kill him early, but apart from that, wasn't sure what else he had the gave him a high advantage.
Guess this really shows my lack of experience

 

[Camalange]

That's kind of all he needs. We wrack up damage fast and basically create the ultimate character Sonic hates. Someone with crazy disjoints, a deadly projectile, and hard to kill confirm.

 

[Sytal]

One of my good friends mained Lucario for the longest time in Brawl and Smash 4 (Before switching to Cloud).
From my experience I can say with confidence that Lucario has the ability to be a big pain, and I don't doubt his places on tier lists.
But as Camalange said, he definitely isn't as hard of a counter now as he was then.
Brawl's Lucario beat me to the point that it frustrated me.
When 4 came out though, Sonic's serious maneuverability buff evened out the matches quickly.
At this point I just don't think he outright beats us. Between his aura and our speed, I think we're closely matched.

 

[IvanQuote]

A thought just occurred to me for Sonic '17; S3&K featured Tails and Knuckles as derivatives of Sonic right? Well what if they use that approach to add multiple characters to the game? For example, Tails and Knuckles will be playable in Classic Sonic stages (because Flying/Gliding is OP in 3D) and have two other characters as derivatives of Modern Sonic to emulate something similar for Boost Gameplay (say, Shadow and Blaze). Assuming this isn't garbage, I'd say that both would be slightly slower, but Blaze can double/triple jump and Shadow...makes Chaos Blasts when he stomps? What do you think?

 

[The Merc]

Pretty cool idea tbh.

Though you totally missed an opportunity. I mean, Chaos Control for Shadow. What else would he have?

 

[Sensane]

*Dath says Robin is top 20*
*People agree due to lack of matchup knowledge*
*Time passes and people start learning the matchup*
*People say he's not as good as what people used to think*
Cycle of every single frikkin character nowadays; it happened with pikachu, ness, roy, mewtwo (pre patch), lucas, zss, diddy, bowser, fox, cloud, mario, luigi, and [will happen to] marth. The only exception to this rule is sonic but that's because people randomly feel like not trying to learn the matchup and blindly sayig he's top 5 or top 3.

 

[IvanQuote]

I mean, yeah Chaos Control, I'm just unsure how to implement it. Skipping 1/3 of the level seems a bit much. The only other ways I think are turning it into Time Break or warping you back up to safety if you fall into a bottomless pit.

 

[The Merc]

*Dath says Robin is top 20*
*People agree due to lack of matchup knowledge*
*Time passes and people start learning the matchup*
*People say he's not as good as what people used to think*
Cycle of every single frikkin character nowadays; it happened with pikachu, ness, roy, mewtwo (pre patch), lucas, zss, diddy, bowser, fox, cloud, mario, luigi, and [will happen to] marth. The only exception to this rule is sonic but that's because people randomly feel like not trying to learn the matchup and blindly sayig he's top 5 or top 3.

Well Robin is pretty good tbh.

It could definitely be top 20, but not any higher. Mid Tier at the very least

I mean, yeah Chaos Control, I'm just unsure how to implement it. Skipping 1/3 of the level seems a bit much. The only other ways I think are turning it into Time Break or warping you back up to safety if you fall into a bottomless pit.

Yeah except Shadow stays at normal time rather then slowing down as well