Sonic Shield Pressure/Breakers

[MWEX]

Aerials won't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABigmWs5VCY

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Rolling is cool
Jumping is cool

 

[FeintStep]

Rolling is cool
Jumping is cool

Frame perfect it breaks shield in 66 frames, you can ofcourse roll out there isnt shield pressure in the game that guarantees a break if the first hit lands its just about applying pressure and forcing the roll or jump so you can punish and since there jabs with very minimal end lag you can definentely punsh any roll or jump on reaction, only thing i can really think of is Shine OOS as an issue but im sure theres more stuff thatll counter it but it serves its purpose

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Frame perfect it breaks shield in 66 frames, you can ofcourse roll out there isnt shield pressure in the game that guarantees a break if the first hit lands its just about applying pressure and forcing the roll or jump so you can punish and since there jabs with very minimal end lag you can definentely punsh any roll or jump on reaction, only thing i can really think of is Shine OOS as an issue but im sure theres more stuff thatll counter it but it serves its purpose

Jab 2 is negative, to the point it could be shield grabbed.

 

[FeintStep]

Jab 2 is negative, to the point it could be shield grabbed.

do it behind them, not like it takes much longer to run past them, crouch pivot jab then it does to run up crouch jab, and there will be a lot of cases youre behind them in shield either way, im not entirely sure on buffering shield grabs but untill the opponent learns the timing to grab it there gonna get jabbed out of there grab and some characters like ganon wont even be able to grab it still

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

do it behind them, not like it takes much longer to run past them, crouch pivot jab then it does to run up crouch jab, and there will be a lot of cases youre behind them in shield either way, im not entirely sure on buffering shield grabs but untill the opponent learns the timing to grab it there gonna get jabbed out of there grab and some characters like ganon wont even be able to grab it still

You do not have to be "frame prefect" to grab this. So timing that, isn't a real issue. This is what, at least -8 on shield? iirc its more than that. If some moron is gonna let you tap on their shield for days, god help them and I start my praying now.

 

[FeintStep]

You do not have to be "frame prefect" to grab this. So timing that, isn't a real issue. This is what, at least -8 on shield? iirc its more than that. If some moron is gonna let you tap on their shield for days, god help them and I start my praying now.

losing 8 frames, grab takes 7, thats 2 frames they have to input it after the second jab connects, usually im holding crouch at that moment as should everyone else doing this so them not being in that 2 margin window means we can spot dodge the grab if there 4 frames late and punish, nothing in this game is safe its just a matter of how safe it can be while still tacking on percent and pressure, this is pretty safe in my opinion especially if you do mixups like i do where i jab there shield once and go for the grab

 

[Soft Serve]

losing 8 frames, grab takes 7, thats 2 frames they have to input it after the second jab connects, usually im holding crouch at that moment as should everyone else doing this so them not being in that 2 margin window means we can spot dodge the grab if there 4 frames late and punish, nothing in this game is safe its just a matter of how safe it can be while still tacking on percent and pressure, this is pretty safe in my opinion especially if you do mixups like i do where i jab there shield once and go for the grab

-8 means there's 8 frames before you can do anything.
jab2 to IASA crouch>jab is 8 frames +7 frames startup+crouching frame (and 1 frame to stand too, iirc)
that's at least 16 frames they have of no shield stun between jabs.

 

[FeintStep]

-8 means there's 8 frames before you can do anything.
jab2 to IASA crouch>jab is 8 frames +7 frames startup+crouching frame (and 1 frame to stand too, iirc)
that's at least 16 frames they have of no shield stun between jabs.

okay youre definentely right, new to the frame data thing so thanks for correcting me.
Either way i just did some testing and the 1+2 definentely isnt going to work which sucks because i dont understand why theyd even put 10% shield damage on the second jab if you cant ever use it safely other then from behind even then its not really safe.

I did some testing on the jab 1 repeating on shield and i think i came up with something thats actually useful if you space it out the way that sonics beginning crouch frame works is that he stands completely upright almost and it makes him a much smaller target horizontally so it will look like they can grab you out of the shield based on distance but when he lunges back some characters are unable to make the reach. i have not tested which other then marth and kirby, marth reaches but even then its on his last grab box and thats pretty far.

 

[Soft Serve]

Jab cancels are definetly good on shields if you conditioned them to just hold it, melee samus does it quite often.

I feel like it's only good if you have stage control and they are shielding by the ledge, because then they can't just roll away. If they have room to roll away it's demanding on sonic to do both near frame perfect jab cancels and be Abel to act/react with good timing to catch the faster rolls, before they have time to put a hitbox out.

Characters I wouldnt do this too:
Diddy with a banana(glide toss OoS is a clean punish between jabs, and a free convertion for diddy)
spacies (shine OoS on poorly spaced jabs, bair oos if you are hitting their back)
shiek (most melee shieks know how to nair OoS, should cleanly hit even well spaced jabs)
bowser (up b)
M2 will just tp away or nair you
link/tink will up b you

I think it's good vs tether characters, and characters who's upb Oos have small hitboxes and are somewhat comitments (Snake, gnw, samus, etc) and good if you space it well because you can punish them.

It's a good tool imo, but nothing to focus on too much, jab2 >dsmash is probably really good for catching slower reactions.

I'd rather just grab them, or stand slightly away and react to whatever they do. I'm also not a sonic player though so I don't know which choices would be the most benifitial to converting into sonics gameplan/win conditions.