Sonics sideb vs downb discussion.

[Piccolo_Z]

Being a nub and playing around a few times, I would like to discuss a few things.

I was wondering, are there any non obvious differences between the two moves.

When is it appropriate to use one over the other. It's a shame I watch pro vids and they hardly ever use spin dashes.

I tend to rush in then charge side b a couple character spaces away baiting an attack, since sonic stop instantly to charge. Then release to the hop leading to the combo.

I tend to use the downb in the air then releasing.

As someone mentioned before, the spin dashes, sideb, upa, nair, downb deflect snakes missiles, not sure if they have the same effect on other projectiles. I know the nair pwns snakes mortar.

discuss.

 

[MarKO X]

I perfer the downB spin charge because it feels more "natural" to me as a Sonic fan. As far as whihc of the moves has more priority, someone else will have to give you the technical answer on that one, because I don't spin dash enough for that to even be a factor when I use Sonic.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

I tend to use sideB since it's easier to hold it rather than tap. Sometimes I tap downB as a fake-out (rarely). I don't use sonic all that much though.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Here's my take:

Often, I'll be finishing up an air combo and let's say the opponent lands back inside the stage as I'm falling out of it. Because of the spin dash's little hop at the beginning, I can wait until I am beneath the lip of the stage to execute it; mind tactics.

Spin dash and hold up: you go straight up.
Spin Charge and hold up: you go forward at 45 degrees.

spin charge, once charged up a bit, seems to have more priority and seems to go faster than the spin dash.

spin dash seems to be more useful when you're in a tough spot.


all in all, I use both, but maybe charge a little more than dash.

 

[Boxob]

I only use it in combos. It just isn't smart to approach with it unless you're in FFA.

 

[Veil2222]

It can be smart to approach with it if you vary what you do with it. Depending on how my opponent is blocking me, I go for a spindash combo, a fake out to a sh Dair, a follow through with a lag cancel neutral B after passing them, or a lag cancel upB + Dair to a grab/jab combo. If you cycle through these things is still a viable approach 1v1 as long as you still mix in dash attacks and dash grabs to keep them guessing. Sonic is all about making your opponent eat an attack they didn't expect by throwing as many attacks out as possbile.

 

[Napilopez]

I agree with the above. Mix it up and approaching with the spins is fine IMO.

As to any differences, Side B can be God as an approach from close distances because of a mega high priority moment until the Apex of the hop, meaning that the attack will eat though just about anything. Getting the timing down might take a while, but once you get it right, it cant be incredibly useful against characters with projectiles(except for lasers sometimesbecause they can be used repeatedly and quickly)

But using SideB mega priority to go through a wolf or ZSS gunshot? Teh Awesome.

The high priority moment has also become useful for me when coming back from offstage, I use it if for when someone wants to throw something at me in order to prevent my recovery.

Personally however, I prefer Down B when I don't need the priority as it just feels better.

I've kinda become fond of the two similar spins.

 

[R4ZE]

if you start the spin charge and hit up on the directional stick and release B, it shoots of with almost no start delay.

its faster than hitting b twice...

i think if u gotta whip it out quick down B is definately the way to go. but if u have a bit of time, the side B get invincibility frames if u charge it until it pulls back as far as it can.


both moves are extremely useful, you have to learn to judge when which is necessary and also switching it up can throw off you opponent.

but ... vs some characters, its really hard to find the right time to use either of these moves at all. like for example wolf.


down B goese under some projectiles as well, but side B can eat projectiles if it gets charge time and it released at the right time




ALSO on a side note, idk if anyone noticed this already, but after either of these moves change direciton, they wont do damage until you hear the sound effect and see the dash smoke, and the blue rings appear around sonic.

 

[Napilopez]

R4ZE, I'm pretty sure the invincibility frames on the SideB(At least until the apex) work regardless of whether you charge it or not, otherwise that Bobomb someone through at me would have totally killed me, lol.

 

[Piccolo_Z]

I guess I will use this thread to also discuss what the spindashes can and cannot plow through to give possible approach ideas.



- I know the spin dash clanks with pikachu's projectile bolts(sonic takes no damage).

- spin dash either clanks or plows through pits forward b fan twirl.

-I believe it goes through samus' missiles not entirely sure though.

-As mentioned before, it travels under pit's straight arrows.




What the spindashes can't go through.

-pk fires
-flame breaths


I feel there is a need to discuss this because the spindashes have moments of awesome priority and many moments of weak priority. It is very loopy.

I don't have bucket loads of time so i am hoping others can test spindashes with other opponents projectiles and attacks.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

arrows don't hurt, and boomerangs seem to be 50/50.

 

[Piccolo_Z]

Geez, I guess I must be bored. I actually did further testing.

Before I start, something very interesting.

-*metaknight: found this kind of weird, but homing attack sometimes beats out tornado I guess it depends on the angle of hit.

Pls note: I did not test length of charges and whether it has an effect on priority.
also I mixed the results of sideb and downb since most results are the same.

here is an updated prelim list, if others can confirm or disprove pls do so.

First list spindash beats or clanks.

-link: Goes under arrows or clanks.

-samus: goes under smash missile, clanks homing.



-ivysaur: clanks razor leaf.

-peach: clanks turnip

-lucario: clanks either non or fully charged aura sphere.

-toonlink: clanks boomerang

-rob: clanks dreidle thingy

-pikmin fsmashes: inconsisistant results, need further testing.


Now the redundant list of projectiles that own spindash.

-Seems fire in general ownz spindash.

-mario/luigi fire ownz

-bombs owns

-all lasers owns

-needles owns

-ice cubes owns

-samus charge shot ownz

-waddle d's own

-toon link arrows own

-*lol Diddy's almighty peanut ownz

 

[Tenki]

^ about MK's tornado, it seems to have low priority at the beginning of the cast, so if you get on at the beginning, you can pretty much break it before it can start.

Also, were you testing with down-B fullcharge, side-B fullcharge... etc,?

 

[R4ZE]

R4ZE, I'm pretty sure the invincibility frames on the SideB(At least until the apex) work regardless of whether you charge it or not, otherwise that Bobomb someone through at me would have totally killed me, lol.

its possible but i doubt it.


I'm pretty sure the more you charge, the higher the priority...
this is just from experience


most attacks/projectiles will lose to a quickdraw spindash but some things like for example Ikes neutral B, wolfs lasers, and other high priority/SA moves will only get beat if the spin dash is fully, or atleast ppartially charged.

*please note i'm not presenting this as fact, but this is personal thoery and POSSIBLY true*

me and a friend tested: ike's neutral B vs spin charge, if timed right, ike can execute his neutral b and sonic will go into it, and take no damage, while ike will take damage but still fully execute the attack and not move at all. For me, this confirmed that there are invincibility frames on sonic's side B.

But i have witnessed sonic's side b lose to certain mvoes(when it should have invincibility), mostly only when incorrectly timed, or when released quickly rather than charged.

It is also very possible that Wolf's lasers deal damage and knockback before the graphic reaches the character, and because of that i may have been mis-timing my spindashes. but it seems liek to me i have no problems eating wolfs lasers as long as i have charged the spindash, yet if i dont.. then the laser will hit me and stop my spin.

MK's tornado: really simple, its vulnerable from the top. If you execute homing attack from above MK, then sonic may arch into the side of it, and the tornado will win. but if you execute it form ground level from a decent distance, sonic will definatly arch to the top of MK and knock him out of tornado. but basicly, just hit him on the head and u can hit him out with any move.

 

[Tenki]

^
About 'charging', are you guys comparing the 'spin dash' portion of the moves, or are you talking about the initial hop of side-B?

Also, how many taps IS a fully charged spin dash? I played vs Lucario online and approached via eating all his projectiles with spin dash lol. But it only worked with a FC SD, so I don't want to have extra taps in :[
I probably should have switched to spin charge when I got too close :x

There might be some priority change at the beginning of the spin dash (down-b), but I'm not exactly sure about that.

 

[R4ZE]

It's not fully dependant on how MANY taps. It has to do with speed that you tap B.

there is even a way to release spin charge with one press and release of the B button. But normally if you just tap it 2 times really fast and let go, you will get a full speed spin charge.

and we are talking about the initial hop of side B, and the priority of it.

as far as i know: spin charge can never eat projectiles quite like spindash can. because Spin dash actually has invincibility frames. But spincharge can still get pretty good priority.

 

[Tenki]

AHHH!

Spoiler

REAL MONSTERS!

It could be just me, but I thought down-B(B+B+B...) was spin dash, since that's the move more familiar in Sonic games.

And the weird thing with the hop (side-B) was Spin Charge.

But I see what you mean. I'll check it out later :D

 

[R4ZE]

ya, i was originally calling them both spind dash, but i read somwhere on here that their "official names" are Spin dash(side b) and Spin Charge(down b)

i know it sounds weird to me too, but a lot of ppl are familier with those terms so i use em too.

(unrelated) if it were my call, i would call side b Spin hop, and down b Spin dash....

 

[Tenki]

Sonic's Special Moves
Standard Special Move - Homing Attack
Side Special Move - Spin Dash
Up Special Move - Spring Jump
Down Special Move - Spin Charge
Final Smash - Super Sonic

I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

Screw what they say, down b is spin dash and side b is spin charge.

But for the sake of universality, maybe we should just refer to them as >B and vB

how degrading.