Sonic's worst matchup

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Mario is definitely not. Sonic would walk all over Mario.

Mario has moves that has more Priority than Sonic and the Fireballs/Pills can make Sonic have a little trouble approaching Mario

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

what character doesn't have more priority than sonic right now? Playing well with sonic revolves around weaving in fast and efficiently in this matchup. Against the pills, you may end up having to time a run through, or try to get Mario above you in some way. It isn't impossible, but the m.u is annoying, plus your reward for getting in is a character with just about as good of a close quarters game, just slower.

 

[nskid]

Begins with a S and ends with your death.

Spacies.

LOL, remember the earlier Project M versions: starting at 5:21

Well, anyways, I think that characters with projectiles that can knock you out of a spindash or soumersalt such as Falco's lasers.

 

[roxolid]

LOL, remember the earlier Project M versions

This video in specific is what made me (and probably many others) start maining Sonic in PM last year, kudos to Wizzrobe

 

[Blenger]

Which character do you guys think would be the best secondary (counterpick) against bad matchups for sonic?


Also, what do you think about Sonic vs Wario matchup? I think its in wario's favor because his side B can beat all your aproaches, even if you jump he can still follow you jumping whit his really strong shoulder.

 

[NickLeo]

I agree, wario's side B and Nair both give sonic trouble, but aside from those he doesn't have too many tools vs sonic.

How do sonic mains feel vs king d3? I found out his inhale beats spindash

 

[Blenger]

the think with d3 inhale is that starts really slow and sonic can punish it easily

 

[mtmaster]

As someone who mains Sonic I can definitely say projectiles are a pain in the butt. Especially against characters like Falco and Mario who make it hard for him to approach. Fox can also be just as annoying as Falco as you ask me even though his lasers don't have hit stun. They rack up damage so fast.

 

[Arikie]

If you powershield a few pills/fireballs you may convince the mario player to quit spamming them long enough for you to Dash dance in front of them and bait them into doing a ground move so you can punish.

IMO it is easier to powershield the fireballs before they bounce or after the apex of their bounce, right after they bounce they come at you with this weird angle and trajectory that is pretty awkward.

Anyone got any tips for dealing with metaknights bair and nair? On stage MK will often use nair to stop my spin dashes. If I'm recovering I often take bairs or nairs after upB, or they downsmash. If I recover too high they grab and I get to be part of their lovely downthrow tech chase or combo depending on how I DI.

Falco's lasers and oppressive neutral game in general are irritating but if you can get him in the air or offstage one time it is either a lot of damage or a stock.

 

[roxolid]

You just have to respect MK's bair and nair, just like you have to expect any other character's decent aerials when you're spin dashing--sonic's priority there is dismal. For recovery, learn to sweet spot perfectly, because, like you said, if you go too high, you get obliterated. Sweet spotting should help you immensely

 

[Piefrenzy]

I think Peach might be a little annoying vs Sonic just because of turnip spam and with her floatiness she can space out any aerial approaches Sonic might take.

 

[mtmaster]

Speaking of which does anyone have advice on fighting her with Sonic. I was fighting a friend of mine the other day and I just could not beat him using Sonic no matter how hard I tried. I had to switch to using Zelda/Sheik. That damn floatyness and that ability of hers to hover is extremely problematic for Sonic, since she is almost never on the ground. Not to mention she has the advantage of projectiles as well, making it extremely difficult to approach her.

 

[GabPR]

Speaking of which does anyone have advice on fighting her with Sonic. I was fighting a friend of mine the other day and I just could not beat him using Sonic no matter how hard I tried. I had to switch to using Zelda/Sheik. That damn floatyness and that ability of hers to hover is extremely problematic for Sonic, since she is almost never on the ground. Not to mention she has the advantage of projectiles as well, making it extremely difficult to approach her.

Peach has a really strong defensive game, but limited approaches without turnips . The way I play vs Her is by taking my time and waiting to catch the player off guard or bait them into throwing out an attack. Another thing regarding peach and other floties is that you do not want to remain too close to them or bee too aggresive at low percents, you do damage and after the combo get out and wait for another opening. Here is an example of a game I played vs a Peach player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBDyzARC5Q

Hope it helps

 

[mtmaster]

Peach has a really strong defensive game, but limited approaches without turnips . The way I play vs Her is by taking my time and waiting to catch the player off guard or bait them into throwing out an attack. Another thing regarding peach and other floties is that you do not want to remain too close to them or bee too aggresive at low percents, you do damage and after the combo get out and wait for another opening. Here is an example of a game I played vs a Peach player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBDyzARC5Q

Hope it helps

Not sure when I will get to play this particular friend again (as he's the only person I know who plays peach), but this definitely is helpful. I dunno how good practicing against the computer will do, but fighting the computer is better than nothing at all lol . Thanks for the assistance GabPR.

Edit: Totally irrelevant, but that video literally happened to show up on my youtube feed as a suggestion not to long ago go figure lol.

 

[GabPR]

It is not bad to practice vs computers to see if some combos work or not (depending on DI) but be careful of not catching bad habits.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

It is not bad to practice vs computers to see if some combos work or not (depending on DI) but be careful of not catching bad habits.

The only bad habit I have is sometimes being to aggressive which is normal for me to be honest

 

[Star ☆]

Peach has a really strong defensive game, but limited approaches without turnips . The way I play vs Her is by taking my time and waiting to catch the player off guard or bait them into throwing out an attack. Another thing regarding peach and other floties is that you do not want to remain too close to them or bee too aggresive at low percents, you do damage and after the combo get out and wait for another opening. Here is an example of a game I played vs a Peach player:s

At the moment I personally think that Peach is definitely the most defensive matchup that Sonic has; while other matchups such as Captain Falcon call for Sonic to be hyper aggressive, Peach denies Sonic's combos lasting longer than 2 hits. I agree with you Gab, the best way to play this matchup is to land two hit spin combos,spaced fairs or jump canceled grabs to punish floats. You have to really watch out for her Nair and Down Smash as those two moves will be the punish she lands on you for overextending anything.

Also, she dies fairly quickly if you sweetspot Uair, so go for up throws guys, if you go for Nairs and she gets out of hitstun before you realise it you'll take her Nair to your face.

 

[mtmaster]

It is not bad to practice vs computers to see if some combos work or not (depending on DI) but be careful of not catching bad habits.

I definitely try to keep that in mind when I fight computers.

The only bad habit I have is sometimes being to aggressive which is normal for me to be honest

I typically run into this problem when I get annoyed and that isn't good since Peach is very good at pushing my buttons.

 

[Piefrenzy]

How does Sonic do against Diddy Kong? I have a friend who is interested in playing both Peach and Diddy Kong, and I'm curious of what other people think of the Sonic vs Diddy Kong match up. From my experience, it wasn't too bad for Sonic.

 

[mtmaster]

How does Sonic do against Diddy Kong? I have a friend who is interested in playing both Peach and Diddy Kong, and I'm curious of what other people think of the Sonic vs Diddy Kong match up. From my experience, it wasn't too bad for Sonic.

I haven't fought any Diddy Kong's, but I would think that the banana's would make it hard for Sonic to approach.

 

[GabPR]

Sonic down b goes over bananas without slipping, so it does not hinder Sonic as much as people.would think it would, and as long as the player has good item control and basics, he should be able to have an.edge against a diddy of equal skill in my opinion.

 

[Piefrenzy]

Sonic down b goes over bananas without slipping, so it does not hinder Sonic as much as people.would think it would, and as long as the player has good item control and basics, he should be able to have an.edge against a diddy of equal skill in my opinion.

Yeah this was sort of what I was thinking. It's really nice that Sonic's Down B go over Diddy's bananas. It alleviates some of the pressure from them and allows Sonic to somewhat move around the stage like he likes to

 

[Lord Ike]

Anybody who can match Sonic's speed basically destroys him. So that would be someone like Meta Knight or even Squirtle.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Anybody who can match Sonic's speed basically destroys him. So that would be someone like Meta Knight or even Squirtle.

Also Luigi just saying

 

[Star ☆]

Anybody who can match Sonic's speed basically destroys him. So that would be someone like Meta Knight or even Squirtle.

I wouldn't say this is true in all cases; Captain Falcon is quite an easy matchup and he's certainly a fast character.

 

[Piefrenzy]

I wouldn't say this is true in all cases; Captain Falcon is quite an easy matchup and he's certainly a fast character.

What makes the Falcon matchup so easy?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

At the moment I personally think that Peach is definitely the most defensive matchup that Sonic has; while other matchups such as Captain Falcon call for Sonic to be hyper aggressive, Peach denies Sonic's combos lasting longer than 2 hits. I agree with you Gab, the best way to play this matchup is to land two hit spin combos,spaced fairs or jump canceled grabs to punish floats. You have to really watch out for her Nair and Down Smash as those two moves will be the punish she lands on you for overextending anything.

Also, she dies fairly quickly if you sweetspot Uair, so go for up throws guys, if you go for Nairs and she gets out of hitstun before you realise it you'll take her Nair to your face.

The Match up doesn't fit my Playstyle!

 

[Star ☆]

The Match up doesn't fit my Playstyle!

Then you'll lose haha. I like to go more aggressive too but you'll have to be defensive if you to win this matchup. Peach craps all over you if you pressure her too much. Her crouch cancel into down smash wrecks your spins and nair beats your aerial approaches. Be more defensive.

What makes the Falcon matchup so easy?

He's a fast faller and Sonic's moves can push fast fallers against the ground. He outspeeds Falcon and can punish his mistakes and avoid his aerial moves. Falcon's ground moves are also terrible so Sonic can feel very safe on the ground. Just watch out for Falcon kick

 

[GabPR]

Then you'll lose haha. I like to go more aggressive too but you'll have to be defensive if you to win this matchup. Peach craps all over you if you pressure her too much. Her crouch cancel into down smash wrecks your spins and nair beats your aerial approaches. Be more defensive.

He's a fast faller and Sonic's moves can push fast fallers against the ground. He outspeeds Falcon and can punish his mistakes and avoid his aerial moves. Falcon's ground moves are also terrible so Sonic can feel very safe on the ground. Just watch out for Falcon kick

It is not really an insta lose to play aggresively vs a peach its really just not to play dumb and throw random spin attacks. Like star said, her crouch cancel can punish a lot of your moves, so its better to use grabs and well spaced tilts and bairs to rack up some precentage if the peach remains close to the ground. If she is above you your up air at the tip of the shoes beats everything she has, so it is a good thing to keep that in mind. I also agree with star on Falcon being one of the easiest matchups for Sonic if played right.

 

[Solharath]

Falcon is easier, yes, but it's not an out-and-out victory like some of y'all are painting it. If you let Falcon below you, or he spaces well enough, you're gonna have a bad time getting around his uair. Sonic lacks any punish against a 1st hit nair>LCancel, as if he stays in shield Falcon can grab on reaction, and if you Wavedash OoS he can jab you in your jumpsquat. In fact he recovers from his jab so quickly that it's a return to neutral if anything if he manages to miss you with the jab. Falcon also has a lot of really free followups on Sonic - the DThrow Knee works on nearly any percentage, and the tragic awfulness of Sonic's techrolls make techchasing with Dair a matter of finger dexterity of the Falcon player rather than reads.

If played right, Sonic has a better time than Falcon, but one mistake can lose you the stock more easily than most characters. Just keep on the move and out of range until he overextends, which if the Falcon is playing right, likely isn't going to happen as easily as you want it to. Expect the neutral game to play out for 40+ seconds if both players approach the matchup "right".

 

[mtmaster]

Falcon is easier, yes, but it's not an out-and-out victory like some of y'all are painting it. If you let Falcon below you, or he spaces well enough, you're gonna have a bad time getting around his uair. Sonic lacks any punish against a 1st hit nair>LCancel, as if he stays in shield Falcon can grab on reaction, and if you Wavedash OoS he can jab you in your jumpsquat. In fact he recovers from his jab so quickly that it's a return to neutral if anything if he manages to miss you with the jab. Falcon also has a lot of really free followups on Sonic - the DThrow Knee works on nearly any percentage, and the tragic awfulness of Sonic's techrolls make techchasing with Dair a matter of finger dexterity of the Falcon player rather than reads.

If played right, Sonic has a better time than Falcon, but one mistake can lose you the stock more easily than most characters. Just keep on the move and out of range until he overextends, which if the Falcon is playing right, likely isn't going to happen as easily as you want it to. Expect the neutral game to play out for 40+ seconds if both players approach the matchup "right".

Like you basically said I imagine the two of them to be pretty equal to each other when the two players are the same skill level. I've seen some pretty wicked things that both characters can do. I've seen some pretty wicket Sonic's (you Wizzrobe, Nazo, Mapmark, etc.), but I've also seen some ridiculous Falcons as well, and in either case I'm just sitting there watching these matches and in my mind I keep thinking 2 stronk.

 

[Solharath]

I'm currently placed at Top 3 Sonic's at the moment, which I feel I could be if I played consistently enough against local players, as my play outside of the locals is usually stellar if not fantastical. That said, until I play to that constant, I would hesitate to say my play is 'wicked.'

 

[Star ☆]

Falcon is easier, yes, but it's not an out-and-out victory like some of y'all are painting it. If you let Falcon below you, or he spaces well enough, you're gonna have a bad time getting around his uair. Sonic lacks any punish against a 1st hit nair>LCancel, as if he stays in shield Falcon can grab on reaction, and if you Wavedash OoS he can jab you in your jumpsquat. In fact he recovers from his jab so quickly that it's a return to neutral if anything if he manages to miss you with the jab. Falcon also has a lot of really free followups on Sonic - the DThrow Knee works on nearly any percentage, and the tragic awfulness of Sonic's techrolls make techchasing with Dair a matter of finger dexterity of the Falcon player rather than reads.

If played right, Sonic has a better time than Falcon, but one mistake can lose you the stock more easily than most characters. Just keep on the move and out of range until he overextends, which if the Falcon is playing right, likely isn't going to happen as easily as you want it to. Expect the neutral game to play out for 40+ seconds if both players approach the matchup "right".

I agree that Falcon is very good at spacing Uairs and other approaching from the air effectively. I also agree that the matchup must be played smart in order to win. I think it's better to stay grounded when playing this matchup and use spins to your advantages as much as you can. Quick spinshots over the head of the Falcon into reversed spindashes or spin manoveurs is quite effective at carrying Falcon into a quick Nair or Fair.

While I agree that this matchup, like every matchup, needs to be played smartly in order to win, I think Falcon is among the characters that Sonic will have the smoothest time with.

 

[Burning]

I seem to just be really inexperienced when I use Sonic then. I find it really difficult to go up against sword wielding characters in general because of their range. If I'm quick enough it's easy, but get caught and I'm done for. @_@;

 

[Star ☆]

I seem to just be really inexperienced when I use Sonic then. I find it really difficult to go up against sword wielding characters in general because of their range. If I'm quick enough it's easy, but get caught and I'm done for. @_@;

You have to play Roy/Marth matchups very safely. Go for reverse spin dashes when they're busy doing other things and jump canceled grabs to lead into kill moves.

I also know Marth can be killed easily regardless of which way he DI's out of your Up throw at around 100%; if he DI's away, jump and spindshot into Nair and if he DI's towards you jump or spring up into a sweetspot Uair.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

I agree that Falcon is very good at spacing Uairs and other approaching from the air effectively. I also agree that the matchup must be played smart in order to win. I think it's better to stay grounded when playing this matchup and use spins to your advantages as much as you can. Quick spinshots over the head of the Falcon into reversed spindashes or spin manoveurs is quite effective at carrying Falcon into a quick Nair or Fair.

While I agree that this matchup, like every matchup, needs to be played smartly in order to win, I think Falcon is among the characters that Sonic will have the smoothest time with.

Yeah, if you play this MU smartly by staying grounded and baiting out everything Falcon does, there's not much Falcon can do. Falcon can only do anything by capitalizing on huge errors the Sonic player does. He can't outright approach, outright pressure Sonic, or outright prioritize him in any reliable way (except maybe with Falcon kick for the last one lolol). Falcon definitely has a rough life in this MU. Personally, I'd rather go Fox.

 

[Vino.]

In my personal opinion it would be metaknight. Too many disjointed hit boxes to keep sonic out, and almost out prioritize him in every face of the game. Has a guaranteed down throw chain grab into down b, and it's very tough. I feel as if other characters named here were strongly named because of projectiles. If worked around, toon link and Falco are very manageable. Especially Falco due to his terrible recovery, if a Falco fails to react you can side b wave dash repeat on him to a baseball kick and grab ledge and he will usually die, or you can homing attack and grab ledge. I would say it's easily meta knight.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

About the side b wavedash forward gimp thing it is possible for spacies to escape

 

[Vino.]

About the side b wavedash forward gimp thing it is possible for spacies to escape

I know it is, but if they don't react quick enough it's a free gimp.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I know it is, but if they don't react quick enough it's a free gimp.

Its not really free if they don't react to the first one spacies can get out of any side b if they are in crouch cancel %