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Springfield, MO discussion thread

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
Even if you can't stay for an event, feel free to stop by just for friendlies or to say hi.

Also, I'll work on a signature-optimized version of the Super Springfield Bros. logo next I get the chance. I have all this freetime now that school is basically done (just some finals on Thursday left for me until Summer class starts).
 

Zantetsu

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,413
Location
Springfield, MO
lol I'm lovin these banners

so I just realized that I'm gonna be in town the same day as this tourney! My sister lives in springfield and her graduation ceremony is this saturday. I'm not sure if I'll be able to find time to sneak off for a little or whatever, but I'm gonna reeeally try to because hanging with you guys is too fun :)

I'll let you know what happens
Please, let us know. I will pick your *** up from wherever you are to take you to the tournament because I'd enjoy more friendlies with you. The tournament is going to open at 1 and they usually go until about 12 - 1 AM so if you can't find time, even near the dead end, shame on you.

Also, I'll work on a signature-optimized version of the Super Springfield Bros. logo next I get the chance. I have all this freetime now that school is basically done (just some finals on Thursday left for me until Summer class starts).
Good, I expect no more school john's from you, Terral. Gotta get that Pikachu up some level's.
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
lol I'm lovin these banners

so I just realized that I'm gonna be in town the same day as this tourney! My sister lives in springfield and her graduation ceremony is this saturday. I'm not sure if I'll be able to find time to sneak off for a little or whatever, but I'm gonna reeeally try to because hanging with you guys is too fun :)

I'll let you know what happens
Oh this is awesome. Hopefully you don't show up and leave before 6pm =/ Maybe you can take your own car and just stay for awhile? Or you can bring SB/Arc/somebody with you and drop them off too? Iunno I'm so excited now lol all these thoughts are attacking me.
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
Good, I expect no more school john's from you, Terral. Gotta get that Pikachu up some level's.
Mostly I can't do anything because of work, which is evenings and almost every day, with random days off. I actually have a 10-day straight work schedule after the tournament, which I'm going to have to talk to someone about.
 

Blue Zexion

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
32
Location
Springfield, MO
oh man this is so hype...i really dont even care about the brawl i just wanna get 1st place real fast then get back to a 64 or melee setup jk
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
Ok guys, announcement to make. If you didn't know it, I've been involved quite a bit with the community on potentially establishing elo ratings for melee. An elo rating is a numerical value given to a player based off of wins and losses and is representative of a players overall strength. It is ONLY based off wins and losses against other players and has nothing to do with standings/results at the end of a tournament. This is the same system that professional chess uses, whether in the United States Chess Federation, or the world wide governing body of chess, FIDE (French acronym, google it if you want to know what it means). If you've ever played an online game of chess you've probably seen one before. I am using the EloCalc program that is posted in the elo topic under Melee Discussion on this forum. Each player across our first four events has started at 1,000. If we have an event where 80% of the players are rated, we will use the USCF Provisional rating formula to calculate newcomers instead of starting at the base of 1,000 (this helps prevent new players that are really good from lowering the ratings of players that are established in our community, thus overall more accurate ratings altogether). Following is a table that details the ratings of each player that has participated in the Melee Singles brackets at Pathways since and including January. No low-tier, doubles, or brawl events are considered. Also, each match is calculated as 1-0 for the winner and 0-1 for the loser whether it be 2-1, 3-1, 3-2, ect. Note: The final (and current) rating would be listed under Elo-Apr. Chg is the change from the month before. In this column, new means it's the persons first tournament, na means they didn't participate in the event that month so there was no change. Record is recorded as: wins-losses-byes. Byes have no effect whatsoever on elo ratings.

Rank Gamertag Elo-Jan Chg Record Elo-Feb Chg Record Elo-Mar Chg Record Elo-Apr Chg Record
1 Zivilyn Bane 1120 new 5-0 1189 +69 9-0-1 1161 -28 12-2-1 1215 +54 16-3-2
2 Saberguy 1132 new 5-0 1132 na 5-0
3 Zantetsu 1049 new 4-2 1049 na 4-2 1031 -18 6-4 1079 +48 11-6
4 Sinister 1059 new 4-2 1059 na 4-2
5 VTS 1055 new 4-2 1055 na 4-2
6 BoP 1032 new 3-2-1 1041 +9 6-4-1 1041 na 6-4-1 1041 na 6-4-1
7 LinkMO 1038 new 3-2 1038 na 3-2
8 Kellen 1030 new 3-2 1030 na 3-2
9 DrewBear 980 new 1-2-1 1045 +65 5-4-1 1011 -34 6-6-1 1011 na 6-6-1
10 xzerolegend 1017 new 3-2 1037 +20 6-4 1037 na 6-4 1004 -29 7-6-1
11 Kodie 996 new 2-2 996 na 2-2 996 na 2-2 996 na 2-2
12 Linkz 956 new 1-2-1 942 -14 2-4-3 942 na 2-4-3 994 +54 5-6-4
13 Terrance 978 new 1-2-1 959 -19 2-4-1 987 +28 5-6-2
14 Terral 975 new 1-2 1011 +36 4-4-1 1007 -4 6-6-1 979 -28 7-8-3
15 Yoshiman 978 new 1-2 978 na 1-2
16 Male 975 new 0-2-1 975 na 0-2-1 975 na 0-2-1 975 na 0-2-1
17 BZA 1024 new 3-2-1 1024 na 3-2-1 1024 na 3-2-1 966 -58 3-4-2
18 an honest man 963 new 0-2 963 na 0-2
19 JeBus 953 new 0-2-1 953 na 0-2-1 953 na 0-2-1
20 Sam 953 new 0-2 953 na 0-2
21 ICE 974 new 1-2 951 -24 2-4-1 951 na 2-4-1 951 na 2-4-1
22 Kyle 950 new 0-2 950 na 0-2 950 na 0-2 950 na 0-2
23 Tempest 951 new 0-2-1 932 -19 1-4-1 932 na 1-4-1
24 YBMP 951 new 0-2 912 -39 0-4-2
25 Ugvts 952 new 0-2-1 908 -44 0-4-2 871 -37 0-6-2 847 -24 0-8-4

A few interesting things to note. For one we can see that player record does not directly correspond to rating, however they should be somewhat consistent. One of the major things one might notice about the March event is that Sinister came out rated higher than VTS. Both players were 4-2, yet VTS beat Sinister twice in the brackets! How does this happen? Well simple. While VTS was 2-0 vs Sinister, they were both unranked at the beginning of the event and started at the base of 1,000. VTS didn't beat anybody with a decent established rating, however Sinister beat me. When he beat me I was over 1,200 and lost over 40 points from the defeat (which he gained). So even though VTS beat Sinister twice, he's still rated lower. This is OK and even though elo can be a little tricky at first, it will absolutely balance itself out. In this case, maybe not since I doubt we'll see VTS back at one of these for a little while. But if we did another tournament with the same people I think we'd see them balance. Also note that in all reality, Sinister and VTS are both probably very close in skill and is entirely reflected in their respective ratings. Also note Zantetsu's change from April. He took a set off me in Grand Finals set one, however I still gained more points than him. Seems a little odd at first, however if you look closer the answer is pretty obvious. Since I was 2-1 vs him, the 1-1 almost offset (there might have been a mutual gain or loss of a very small amount), so it really only sees it as 1-0 for me, which makes sense if you think about it. And so as 1-0 for me, it's almost like a perfect record and Roman having only one loss. It's also important to note that ratings change after each match, however if you're in round 5 of a tournament, your rating is still seen as what it was before the event until the event is over. Also notice only three players have participated in all four events, Terral, Ugvts, and myself. I will be posting a new list after each event that includes new players and updates on existing. I will be removing players after four consecutive months of inactivity. As of right now, our list is four months old thus nobody has been removed yet.

Anyways, does anybody else have any opinions or thoughts on this? Please post up with comments and thoughts if you have any. Or any questions or things you notice.

Roman, any chance we can get the table moved to the first page? After this weekends event, I plan on updating with a table that just shows the most recent tournament changes.
 

Zantetsu

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,413
Location
Springfield, MO
Not sure what a "TL;DR" is.

However did you notice all the text around the "chart" there? I'm betting if you read it there's at least a hint of what it's all about :)
TL;DR = Too Long; Didn't Read

That'd be why he doesn't get it. He doesn't care enough. This is why the brawl community can't have great things such as an elo ranking system.



Anyway, the list is very inaccurate, but I can see itself adjusting after more locals attend more tournaments. Maybe the list should only contain people in our direct area, plus Sinister and Bert since they're cool cats who like to show up all the time? We could also start over to let everyone know "hey, these tournaments are ranked from now on so step it up and don't be stupid"

It's just sad seeing Terral, Terrance, and Nathan lower then they should be :(
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
Lol nice pic Roman.

As far as it being innacurate goes, if you look deeper you can appreciate the true beauty of an elo system. It's actually quite accurate as far as actual results go. See, an Elo system will leave out any bias whatsoever. So while we know Terrance, Terral, and Nathan are better than what their elo's show, their tournament performance says otherwise.

Nathan missed the first and last event. The two events he DID play in, he only had one win to four losses. This is going to hurt your elo. The good news? Elo is very good at tracking rapidly improving players. This weekend if Nathan has a good tournament he could very well jump 50-100 points and be rated over 1,000 thus putting him in the top 10. Terral actually had a pretty decent elo of over 1,000, however the last tournament he played poorly, went 1-2 and lost to a player nearly 100 points below him (Linkz). This will hurt you. However again, if he comes out swinging next event then our elo system will track his improvement and it'll reflect nicely. Finally Terrance started out pretty below average at his first two events and his elo dropped. Last tourney he jumped a little and if his performance gets better he'll jump even more.

As far as who to include on the list, I put much thought into that and came up with a conclusion similar to what Chess uses. They go off a 12 month activity measure, while we'll use 4 since smash isn't as consistent as chess. So once a player has been inactive for four months, they'll drop off. This allows players like VTS and Saberguy to at least be on there for a little while to show their accomplishments but not stay on forever. It's also important to remember that once a player drops off our list, should they return to a future event, they'll keep the elo rating they had from before. So while elo is an accurate system, it can only be as consistent as a players attendance and will reflect that.

Can't wait till this weekend to see where everybody ends up. If over 80% of the players are already rated, Jace will not start at 1,000, but with a provisioned elo rating based off a forumla I can provide later. At work now, gotta go!
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
So, I have good news: there is a very good likelihood that we can continue the Pathways tournaments. There are some oddities with how churches work, so Ugvts won't be able to set them up with the church anymore. I'm going to be taking over that part, and hopefully there won't be any strangeness with scheduling or times or anything like that. I mentioned this on AllIsBrawl, but I thought it would be a good idea to say it in both locations.
 

Linkz17

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
152
Location
Farore's Silent Realm
However did you notice all the text around the "chart" there? I'm betting if you read it there's at least a hint of what it's all about :)
I read it. I just can't make heads or tails of it.

That'd be why he doesn't get it. He doesn't care enough. This is why the brawl community can't have great things such as an elo ranking system.
Great things? Lmao. It's a video game.
 

Zantetsu

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,413
Location
Springfield, MO
Great things? Lmao. It's a video game.
Your point? People could say Chess is a board game. Competition is competition either way, from hot dog eating contests, to chess, to sports, to video games. There's no reason to not use a great ranking system when gaming fits into elo just fine. You're just furthering my point, dude, haha.

Another reason Elo is important: you can have your tournaments categorized into groups based on skill level. You can have the pro bracket where anyone can enter, and then you have the specific ranking brackets where you fit into a tournament with the people you rank with. That way, no matter what your skill level is, you have a chance at making money. To me, it's better than only the top 3 or 5 of a 100+ man tournament getting all the dough.
 

-Sinister-

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
542
Location
Dream Land
That way, no matter what your skill level is, you have a chance at making money. To me, it's better than only the top 3 or 5 of a 100+ man tournament getting all the dough.
EXTREMELY disagree. you shouldn't be able to make money if you are at a low skill level. people who win the big tournaments/get top3/5 DESERVE ALL the money. you know how much work they've put into the game?

edit: and this is coming from someone who has no chance of getting even top 20 at a big tournament, so no bias here.
 

-Tempest-

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
621
Location
Strafford MO
3DS FC
0104-1413-9980
Those rankings seem pretty accurate. I'm garbage.

All joking aside, I may not be able to make this one either. If I do, I have very little time if I get off at 4. I have to open Sunday, which means I have to leave a lot earlier. Like... 9. Maybe 10.

If we can run the bracket in that timeframe, no problem. If not, I'll probably just skip out and head home after work instead.
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
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MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
We'll have no problem doing Melee singles while you can be there.

:phone:
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
Actually sinister Roman is kind of right. It's hard to explain online so I'll talk to you at the tournament about it. But basically he's referring to a very successful system that chess uses

:phone:
 

Ugvts

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
71
EXTREMELY disagree. you shouldn't be able to make money if you are at a low skill level. people who win the big tournaments/get top3/5 DESERVE ALL the money. you know how much work they've put into the game?

edit: and this is coming from someone who has no chance of getting even top 20 at a big tournament, so no bias here.
Skilled people don't deserve money. They deserve more money the higher in rank they get, but that's very different from deserving money outright.

Prize money is just an incentive for people to compete at their best, not a tribute to the brilliance of a Snake player's thumb skillz. And having a similarly-skilled-people-tournament with a bit of prize money gives them more incentive to do well than if they're thrown into a tournament with insurmountably better players (where their only driving thought then is to see how far they can get for some weak bragging rights--"Dude! I got 94th place!" "No way, bro! I got 93rd, so suck it!").

You can say that having different tournaments dilutes the money available to the good players, which makes them less interested in the tournament. But the lesser tournaments don't need prizes of giant golden fountains of cash, you can save the big payouts for the giant tournament.

And, with more of a chance of winning something, more people might want to show up. A little cost at the door that goes to the big tournament pot and we're in business.

If you're going to stick with the argument that bad players deserve absolutely no money, then I just straight up do not agree, I guess. :c

Unless you're joking and I am mearly the next victim in a long line of people to fall to the powers of TEXT SARCASM! *thunder clash!*

Actually sinister Roman is kind of right. It's hard to explain online so I'll talk to you at the tournament about it. But basically he's referring to a very successful system that chess uses
No idea what he's talking about, so maybe you (Mr. Sinister) should just listen to his wisdom instead of my stupid
 

-Sinister-

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
542
Location
Dream Land
no they don't outright deserve money, but they're the ones working their ***** off. i mean if you want to do like a separate tournament where only certain (lower level) players are allowed, whatever go for it.
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
Well the idea of having tournaments based on rank is that you have a separate event from the main one in which only people ranked below a certain point can play.
 

Zantetsu

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,413
Location
Springfield, MO
no they don't outright deserve money, but they're the ones working their ***** off. i mean if you want to do like a separate tournament where only certain (lower level) players are allowed, whatever go for it.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. My description was very vague and we don't plan on doing that style of tournament until the MBR sets up an Elo system, if they do. If you let Michael talk to you about how it works and why it's successful, you might change your opinion. It's actually a really cool system that encourages more players.
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
I'm going to try to get off those three days for the tournament in July, but I can't guarantee anything. I'll have that, the June Pathways tournament (on the 18th), and the July Pathways tournament to ask off for, so it might be a bit much.
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
Same deal as always. First people to guarantee their attendance get the seats. I'm going to be putting my request in for the day off on Tuesday. I also have my sons birthday off in July so hopefully it's also not too much. Mine are paid time off though :) So I'll be getting paid to go to smash tournaments lol.
 

Terral

bluehexagons
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
786
Location
MO
Slippi.gg
TERA#282
I'm not 100% sure I'll be able to go to the Iowa tournament. I need to sort a few things out first, but I'll known within the next couple days.

Also, I'd like to get together with people for some Melee before I work this week sometime. I can play until 4. Tuesday or Thursday would be best for me, so if anyone wants to Smash on one of those days then we can try to work something out.
 

Terry

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
697
I browse smashboards all the time but never took the time to find our thread. >.>

DoraNeko, DoraNeko, nanodragonpewpew - all subject to change. don't worry I don't really care what you call me, I just don't have a name I'm satisfied with yet :C

Play both Melee and Brawl

Location - Springfield

Your top 3 characters for each game you play -
Brawl - King Dedede, Falco, Game and Watch
Melee - Sheik

Anyways, last tourney was pretty great.
I was a bit sleep deprived but in no way am I making that an excuse for my losses.
The two Brawl newcomers(newcomers to me at least) knocked me out and were very good. And I'm happy they both gave Linkz a hard time at least. :)
I also feel like I'm doing much better in Melee. At first, I feel like I was a little bit thrown off from Brawl but after a few matches I could play pretty decently. I usually try to mix Brawl and Melee a little when I play with my roommates but they never seem to want to play Melee. ;-;
 

Blue Zexion

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
32
Location
Springfield, MO
i use falco, ganon is just for fun...yah iwas using puff but falco is a lot of fun and i can already do some at's with him and puf players get no respect LOL
 

QuaziFrodo

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
3
Wow sweet, I live in Springfield, and never knew we had a SSB scene like this, other then the random people that would come to my house and get stomped. Any SSB64 tournaments in the area?
 

-Tempest-

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
621
Location
Strafford MO
3DS FC
0104-1413-9980
I'm feeling good about my Falco, guys. I'm dropping Peach completely to play me some Falco.

And for anyone interested, I am, of course, kidding. My Peach feels so on-point right now. I'm feeling good about the next tournament. Heck, I'm feeling good about any Smashfests in the near future.
 
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