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Squirtle's Water Gun

maskeXD

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
114
Well, Squirtle's water gun is good for combos when not charged, OK. But when charged it only pushes the oponent, so no damage, right?

So the question is: Does the enemy recover its Up B after being hit by fully charged water gun? It makes sense sthen that's one of the best edgeguarding movesince it doesn't do any damage... And if that's true, tha's one of the best edgeguardings.

XD
 

Card

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
1,237
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
No they don't... but either way they are barely affected by the Water Gun so it doesn't really matter. It has very strange properties, and I haven't really tested it that much since I don't know how effective it can be. Sometimes the opponent gets hit with Water-Gun and they don't get pushed back at all, they just stop in mid-air momentarily and then continue forward. So basically it didn't hinder their recovery at all...

I also wouldn't say it's good for combos when not charged... As it stands, It's good for nothing really...

So far the best use I've found is when Ike is charging Eruption on the stage, and you just Water-Gun him off and he just falls while charging, and won't recover.
 

Ken34

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
438
Location
Hinesville, GA
No they don't... but either way they are barely affected by the Water Gun so it doesn't really matter. It has very strange properties, and I haven't really tested it that much since I don't know how effective it can be. Sometimes the opponent gets hit with Water-Gun and they don't get pushed back at all, they just stop in mid-air momentarily and then continue forward. So basically it didn't hinder their recovery at all...

I also wouldn't say it's good for combos when not charged... As it stands, It's good for nothing really...

So far the best use I've found is when Ike is charging Eruption on the stage, and you just Water-Gun him off and he just falls while charging, and won't recover.
I agree, ive been playing with pokemon trainer, and i have tried to use water gun in all kinds of situations, most of the time it doesnt push anyone back, i dont really get it, whats the point of this move, it feels like a wasted move, cause i cant really find any good use for it, it sucks for an edgeguard, cause they dont really get pushed back enough, if any at all.
 

maskeXD

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
114
Oh, man I relly wanna find a use for it... Does it push YOU back?
 

Card

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
1,237
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Oh, man I relly wanna find a use for it... Does it push YOU back?
It does, but not really enough to be useful, and it pushes you less distance horizontally when compared to regular Squirtle aerial movement, so it cannot be used as a sort of "reverse water-gun recovery" tactic.
 

squiser

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
79
Sigh...apparently no one cares about my impressions lol, so I'll post my rant on Water Gun here. Last paragraph mostly...

I suppose it's Squirtle's signature move, and I, like so many others before, have tried to find a *ahem* consistent use for this move. I've come to this conclusion: when (if) we finally do figure out some use, it's gotta be ridiculously creative. The most obvious use is the stand on the edge and blast a recovering opponent with it. Since this move only pushes and does no damage, theoretically you could push the opponent into the abyss without giving them back their up+b. However, most good players will go for sweet spotting the ledge when recovering, which is really easy with Brawl mechanics. The pushback for the move is decent when the target is freefalling or standing still, but if something is actually causing the target to move in a certain direction like up+b propels a character upwards, Water Gun will do very little to push the target back, and you're better off edgeguarding with b-air or f-air. So, in that way, Water Gun seems useless unless you really want to laugh at your friends.

I've never been able to make this work, but maybe someone else can. Get your Water Gun fully charged, then when your opponent is recovering, run at the ledge, quickly turn around and jump so that your momentum carries you backwards off the edge. Use your Water Gun when you're in line with or just above the edge of the stage, and you should be able to make it back to the edge with your double jump and Up+B. The idea is that your opponent will be DIing towards the stage, and if the stage does not have straight walls under the edges (like Pokemon Stadium, Smashville, Final Destination for some characters), your opponent may be swept under the stage if you catch him off-guard with the DI. So there you go...very situational, as it only could work on certain stages against certain recoveries, and if you miss you risk getting edgeguarded on your way back. Again, I've never made it work, but seems like it could =x
I've been thinking of some 2v2 uses as well. It should push your teammate with friendly fire on...maybe your team member could charge an f-smash or something and you could push them in lol. Other than that... maybe some uses with items like Bumper?
 

Minipolce

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
11
Well, I thin it's like Mario's F.L.U.D.D. It doens't give them back their jumps like Link's arrows or boomerang. But I haven't played the game and squiser has so I'm tempted to trust him. *sigh* too bad it sucks.
 

maskeXD

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
114
This 2v2 idea is possible indeed, and very advanced. But still doesn't give this attack a proper use...
 

Eljin

Smash Ace
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Aug 1, 2004
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543
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Philly wea I am frm
Uncharged water gun does damage correct? If so then mindgame it up. Dash in > sh backward > water gun.
Does ucwg have stun?

Edit: try WG on projectiles thrown at Squirtle.
 

Oceanborn

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 5, 2008
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San Francisco/Berkeley CA
Wouldn't it be used for WoP type situations? Chase your opponent off the stage, push them away more, and then some more, and then some more, then they try to recover and you push them some more with Water Gun and all of the sudden, they can't get back on the platform.
 

squiser

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
79
Yeah the only real use I see for it atm is in 2v2, and that's gonna be really creative as well. I never did play 2v2 smash much, so I'll leave experimenting to someone else, but just think that Squirtle's water gun is a way to move your team partner around in different ways.

Uncharged water gun does do damage (a decent amount actually), but its afterlag is so much more compared to his jab, aerials or tilts that it doesn't really warrant use. I guess you could throw it in once in a while, but in my opinion Squirtle has better options.

Oceanborn, the pushing the opponent idea seems great in theory, but if you read the thread you'll find that its effect doesn't even come close to being able to pull it off. The amount that it actually hinders any serious recovery is next to zero.

Although, if you're playing a Shiek, it doesn't seem like Shiek's up+b can auto-sweet spot the edge. I've played a Shiek and gotten a kill when he misses the sweet spot and appears above the stage. Meh...
 

squiser

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
79
Mm...I haven't actually tried it against a Falco, but I guess Water Gun stops the movement of illusion, freezing Falco in his recovery and letting him fall to his death? Sounds like it would work.

Also, Squirtle can seriously mess with Lucas' and Ness' recovery with this. I laugh so hard every time my brother (Lucas main) launches himself straight down because I push him into his PK Thunder.

So there we go, it does have a use =D
 

Timotee

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Jun 12, 2006
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Denver, CO
I was going to be sad if no one had mentioned it killing the psychic brats, especially with one of them being the OP's avatar. The other use I've found for it is to prevent snake from using his bomb jump, pushing him out of the way of the C4 drop so he just falls while a pretty firework goes off.
 

PredictablyStubborn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
79
Wow, WG messes up specific recoveries. I wonder if it will work against Ike's forward B too if it works on the furries.

I don't use WG for edge guarding (because I never got it to push people back) or pushing people off the edge. I use it for spacing while my opponents are still on the ground or charging at me in from the air. It's kind of stupid, but it can sometimes confuse people.. kind of.

I haven't tested it yet, but does it work on opponents who are invincible (just got back from being KO'd)? If it does, it might be useful as a shield.
 

MzNetta

Oh no she betta don't
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One decent and definately consistant use for WG is against Snakes Grenades.
My friend mains snake, and countless times has he seen one of his grenades launched right back in his face by a water gun, giving him no time to react, or dodge.
Im assuming this works with other item projectiles (vegetables, armor pieces, bike pieces etc.)
 

HammerWang

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Mar 6, 2008
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114
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Aventura, FL, USA
lol wow WG = anti-projectile possibly? with the few added recovery/attack gimps
it messes with ppl's dash attacks n stuff

maybe it just adds on to PT's 3 types of pokes:
charizard - heavy, muscle, KO'er
ivysaur - %builder, pseudo-projectile, KO'er
squirtle - aerial ace, anti-projectile??
 

The Pimp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
36
I've actually used WG to a good effect. Usually involves a combo then breaking away from the edge using withdrawl then popping out of my shell into a WG. keeps them from hitting you with dash attack plus its a decent mind game. Plus used it to push an opponent off the edge giving me time to get in and combo. Also used it to stop a link from making it back to the stage while he up B'd lol
 

Cebo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
13
One decent and definately consistant use for WG is against Snakes Grenades.
My friend mains snake, and countless times has he seen one of his grenades launched right back in his face by a water gun, giving him no time to react, or dodge.
Im assuming this works with other item projectiles (vegetables, armor pieces, bike pieces etc.)
But Snake's grenades explode causing damage to him. I dont know if the bike parts or armor parts would "change possesion" and cause damage to the thrower due to water gun. ill test it out tomorrow if no one gives an answer i guess.
 

xbstx

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
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Moorpark, CA
i found it useful against Ike when he tries to do his up+B since he is hard to come back with already it pushes Ike back even more and making him fall to his death.
 

Shdwmarth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
18
OK. I don't appreciate people bashing WG ; ). I personally use fully charged water guns all the time. It has so many great uses in mindgames but for actual tactics:

1. My friend uses Ike a lot so whenever he charges a move i push him off the edge or it stops him short when he uses the attack that sends him flying left or right (sorry don't know the button combo).

2. Push people farther off the edge

3. If I have really high damage and no time to really switch to a Pokemon with higher defense, I use it to keep them at bay so I can plan my strikes accordingly and not die. Basically it stalls the match/ wastes time but I don't use it with that mindset.

4. In 2v2s I keep the two enemies separated so my partner and I can focus on one guy as much as possible.

5. My friend also uses Olimar so stopping those aerial pikmin is essential.

I'm sure I've used it more than this but I use it all the time and I really just can't think of anymore specific situations.
 

Device

Smash Cadet
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Mar 22, 2008
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Yeah, a few other things I've used it for were to push Snake into his own down smash mine and it also does a good job at pushing items. I only say this beacuse I noticed I could push Wario's bike with realitive ease (of course when he wasn't on it ;P)
 

zeta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
369
Location
las vegas
i've used watergun to stop gannon/falcons forward b recovery also if a samus misses a sweet spot i've seen it push her far enough back that she can't recover

so kind of a character specific line up

gannon/falcon-forward b
samus-un sweet spotted up b
fox/falco-attemting a sweet spot forward b
ness/lucas-up b
ike-while charging the eruption
snake-c4 recovery

simply put every move is situational imo lets find as many situations we can use water gun in

ideas
marth's nuetral b recovery
ikes forward b recover
donkey kong up b recover
 

maskeXD

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
114
Let's say water gun is a good defensive move.

It's also good agaist almost avery vertical recovery move, like kirby's and charizard's up+b.
 
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