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Meta SSB4 Community Matchup Chart 2015 Results and Discussion

Zareidriel

zuh-RAY-dree-ole
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Zareidriei
First of all, take this:

salt750.png


This Matchup Chart should be taken with a grain of salt because the results of the chart are based on the objective opinions of any Smashboards user who was motivated enough to participate. There is very little special treatment given to the votes of higher-skilled players, so this chart is, more literally, a "picture of the "perceived" matchups, as seen from the perspectives of players of each character, of varying skill levels" chart. I'm sure there will be complaints even with this warning, but just don't take this chart too seriously or try to treat it as "canon meta". Anyway,

Hi! I'm Zareidriel (zuh-RAY-dree-ole). Without further ado:


chartF.png


Looks cool huh? It's actually turned out more accurate-ish than I expected.

Fun facts:

-There are some mid-tier characters like Lucas and Greninja have spreads I would consider..."overconfident"
-Everyone thinks they beat Mewtwo lol (this vote was from before he got buffed though)
-Kirby and Ryu think they can take on Sheik but
-Sheik is scared only of Lucario

First of all, thank you to all the character boards and everyone who voted, you all made this chart possible!

A Light Cyan square means the horizontal character beats the vertical character. A Dark Red square means the vertical character beats the horizontal character.

If you want to see what people who play your character think your matchups are, read from your character's stock icon on the left side, from left to right. If you want to see what the players of other characters think their matchup is against YOUR character, read the chart from your character's stock icon on the top, from top to bottom.


Here is the original thread that spawned the idea for this chart:

http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-bros-u-character-matchup-chart.387279/

F.A.Q. (Future Asked Questions)

Zareidriel said:
Q. Why are there only + and - matchups, and not even matchups?
A. Out of everything, I think I'll be getting the most complaints about this one. For one thing, there is the intent of the original creator:

Assassannerr said:
NOTE: While you can use the Black Dot if you want, (Representing an even matchup) I would highly reccomend that you don't as the only true even matchups would be the same character...
The lack of even matchups makes the chart more useful. In reality, there will be far less truly bad matchups than this chart indicates. But the presence of any "bad matchups" on this chart represents a place where the matchup is at least even, and that it may be possible to use the offending charcter as a counterpick.

Aside from that, there were some other reasons. Neutral matchups are boring. It makes the chart look less crisp. Should I make it even when there are four + and four -? What about when there are nine 0/='s and four +'s, should that be a 0/= or a +?

Needless to say, having the results just be in terms of + and - made the process of interpreting the votes more simple and clean. However, I did make the mistake of taking neutral votes (0/=) from the beginning of the voting process, something I would not have done if I knew I would end up deciding to display the chart in terms of only positive and negative. I believe we would have had more accurate results if I had done so. Completely my fault. もうしわけありません


Zareidriel said:
Q. How did you determine which way to swing a vote that ended up being a total of 0/neutral?
A. This was a pretty tricky aspect of filling the chart out; looking at the votes and just filling in a Cyan or Red was easy. The hard part is sorting out what to do with all the tied votes, and it became a process that starts with going back to the character board in question. I would then look for these sources of information:

-Matchup charts, if the character board has them
-Matchup discussions
-Who are the most prominent/most skilled/most well known voters? What did they vote?
-Post count, if absolutely necessary, indicates not skill, but at least involvement in the Smash community and possibly even some degree of knowledge
-The vote of the other character, from the opposite perspective, was also slightly taken into account; though most of the time the other character would be claiming the advantage


Zareidriel said:
Q. Why did you not do matchup ratios (55:45) or weighted advantage/disadvantage? (++/---)
A. There are a few reasons for this. The game is too early in its infancy, and our knowledge too shaky, for us to be able to provide accurate measures of this, except in extreme matchup cases, which are honestly pretty few and far between in this game. It would have massively complicated the receiving, counting, and interpretation of votes. Sure it could have been done, but with each complication, the sheer time requirement goes up by...quite a hell of a lot. So, basically for "accuracy" and time reasons.

Zareidriel said:
Q. Why do the votes on the forums sometimes not equal the matchup chart result?

A. Most of the time this is because there were less than 5 votes and I had to hit up one of my friends on Smashladder or IRL to cast a ballot. Also, very occasionally I would double the weight of a ballot for a well-known high-skill player.


Zareidriel said:
Q. What ruleset was used for Mii Fighters, 1111 or their entire moveset?

A. Mii fighter voters were able to choose any ruleset that was comfortable to them, they used personally etc. The same goes for characters voting for their matchup against the Mii fighters in question. But the size is always normal, guest size. So I suppose their Chart results are an amalgamation of any moveset and 1111. I think, more often than not, Miis fighters chose to use their entire moveset.


Zareidriel said:
Q. How many hours did this chart take to make?
A. My estimates are about this much:

~4 hours to make the original threads in every character board
~4 hours answering questions in the threads
~30 hours talliying votes. This is not an exaggeration.
~15 hours to make the chart. From 3 AM to noon a few days ago, and from midnight to 6 AM tonight.

Around 50 or 60 hours between November and January. Much longer than I expected. =_=


Zareidriel said:
Q. Why did you go with that color scheme?
A. The chart is equally usable by people with any form of colorblindness.

Zareidriel said:
Q. Who is yelling in the top-left corner of the chart?
A. That's Asuka, of course.

I think the main strength of this chart is as a tool to find possible counterpicks. If you're looking for a Pikachu counter, you can look down the column for Pikachu and say, "Well, the Ikes think they've got Pika's number, maybe I should try some Ike? Hey I've been having Marth trouble and they both list Marth the loser of the Marth/Ike matchup..." and so forth. No, it will not be 100% accurate, but it's a place to start where before, there was nothing.

Special thanks to:

@Assassannerr for creating the original chart
@Zage for updating the orignal chart
@Incoleo for PMing me a hell of a lot of votes and probably saving me like 10 hours
@vegeta18 for sending me a ton of votes as well
...as well as everyone who helped, voted, or encouraged me along the way!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, what is this thread for and not for?

This thread is NOT for:

-DO NOT flame or mock other users, other characters, this chart or me (I will get you). This is Rule #1 of this thread.
-DO NOT express how your character TOTALLY WINS A CERTAIN MATCHUP DUDE, or bicker-quote-war back and forth with another user about who wins the matchup. This is Rule #2.
-What should have been done on this chart, what you would have done, or what should be done for the next one. This thread would be absolutely flooded, so this is off-topic, please refrain from discussing things like these.

This thread IS for:

-Discussing a certain matchup in calm, eloquent manner. There is a fine line between this and Rule #2, and the secret to staying on the right side of the law is not being an asshole.
-Questions, comments, and criticisms of the chart.
-Reactions, including reaction faces
-Inspirational messages
-Asuka pictures

I will be reading this thread, and if there is compelling text arguments and/or video evidence presented in a calm and eloquent manner throughout the thread, I may slowly change some of the matchup chart results over time.

Thanks again! Hope you guys find this thing useful. I have big plans for 2016, so stay tuned! Let's just say...the Chart will be getting major upgrades in multiple areas.

-Zareidriel
 
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arbustopachon

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Damn, congrats. That was a lot of work!
So according to this the LEAST scary characters last patch were: :4mewtwo:,:4bowser:,:4ganondorf:,:4jigglypuff:,:4charizard:.

The MOST scary were: :4sheik:,:4pikachu:,:4zss:,:4fox:,:4mario:.

Also for some reason Wario boards fear Charizard? I would like to hear some discussion on that matchup.
 

Pazx

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This turned out a lot better than I anticipated it would. It would have been nice to see it ordered from most to least advantageous matchups the way all the other games have their charts (ie. Sheik first, Mewtwo last, maybe even a weighted version), since you have all the data could we see it in text form perhaps? Better yet, dumping your data in an excel doc would make for some interesting reading.

I think the decision not to combine the votes from both sides of a matchup is an interesting one, and leads to things like Diddy and ZSS both losing the Diddy:ZSS matchup [sidenote: THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EVEN ISN'T AN OPTION]. I don't really agree with your reasoning for not having a third colour/symbol for even matchups but overall I'm not particularly fussed. It's not hugely accurate but it was never going to be anything more than a vague starting point so kudos to you for spending so much time on it.
 
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FullMoon

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It is pretty funny to see oddities like that Greninja apparently loses the Dr.Mario MU but wins against Mario somehow and both the Greninja/TL and Greninja/Megaman MUs being losses for both sides.

Having no evens though make this whole thing pretty dubious overall
 

Zareidriel

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This turned out a lot better than I anticipated it would. It would have been nice to see it ordered from most to least advantageous matchups the way all the other games have their charts (ie. Sheik first, Mewtwo last, maybe even a weighted version), since you have all the data could we see it in text form perhaps? Better yet, dumping your data in an excel doc would make for some interesting reading.
I would maybe like to do this in the future, but I just have the votes scattered around in various PMs, Cloudpad, notepad documents, etc. It would take some time to organize the data in one place, and/or on an Excel spreadsheet, and I'm not quite yet feeling up to it.

I think the decision not to combine the votes from both sides of a matchup is an interesting one, and leads to things like Diddy and ZSS both losing the Diddy:ZSS matchup [sidenote: THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EVEN ISN'T AN OPTION].
Actually, the fact that both characters voted the other as a disadvantage has nothing to do with even matchups not being an option/result. Diddy players voted 3/5 for a negative matchup against ZSS (votes were +0---), and ZSS players voted 2/5 for a negative matchup against Diddy (votes were 000--).
 
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A Light Cyan square means the horizontal character beats the vertical character. A Dark Red square means the vertical character beats the horizontal character.
I hope you meant this.
 
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Zareidriel

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Yep, thanks. I was REALLY sleep-deprived when I wrote this post XD
 

Pazx

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Actually, the fact that both characters voted the other as a disadvantage has nothing to do with even matchups not being an option/result. Diddy players voted 3/5 for a negative matchup against ZSS (votes were +0---), and ZSS players voted 2/5 for a negative matchup against Diddy (votes were 000--).
3 players voted that they think Diddy wins, 3 players voted that they think ZSS wins, 4 players voted the matchup to be even. You couldn't have picked a better example of an even matchup if you tried.
 

FullMoon

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I was expecting a lot more characters to go with beating Greninja so I'm pleasantly surprised on that front.

Still, funny that Shulk, G&W, Gunner, Brawler, Dr.Mario and Pit mains think they beat us. The rest all seem to be pretty reasonable.
 

divade

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Love the work put into this, I don't mind the opinion side of it. I would love to see high level players give their suggested changes, I think seeing it will make people want to give their input more.
 

TheHypnotoad

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Using the default icon for every character except for Robin? I'm sensing some male Robin erasure...

Anyway, I do not think that Lucario beats Sheik. "Sheik can't kill" is a myth, she has plenty of kill setups. Now, it is true that she has Melee Marth Syndrome, meaning that her kill setups stop working at very high percents, which can help Lucario. However, at those percents, some of Sheik's weaker attacks, like fair, can kill near the ledge. Not to mention that Needles, just like with every character, win the neutral and stop approaches.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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I'm hoping more efforts like this are taken in the future. But if you eventually shifted the project to not accept "equal" answers, then I would have resubmitted a ballot. Heck, I remember condensing a few 55:45s to equal, thinking it would be a prominent third result.
 

Djmarcus44

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I was expecting a lot more characters to go with beating Greninja so I'm pleasantly surprised on that front.

Still, funny that Shulk, G&W, Gunner, Brawler, Dr.Mario and Pit mains think they beat us. The rest all seem to be pretty reasonable.
I know that Gunner results were largely skewed due to the fact that the voters used multiple movesets (1111, 3312, and 3322) while the other boards used 1111 for voting on the Gunner matchup. If you want to discuss the matchup, you can make a post on the Mii Gunner matchup thread.

It is also interesting that Little Mac mains think that they beat Gunner. Several Gunner players think that Mii Gunner goes 70:30 in that matchup. That matchup obviously needs to be discussed.
 

Zareidriel

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Yeah sorry about that Zapp. Starting the chart was a pretty impulsive move and I didnt put a lot of forethought into it.

Pazx, the votes of each side of the characters are never combined. The square on Diddy's row and ZSS's column is a different square than the one on ZSS's row and Diddy's column.
 

FullMoon

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I know that Gunner results were largely skewed due to the fact that the voters used multiple movesets (1111, 3312, and 3322) while the other boards used 1111 for voting on the Gunner matchup. If you want to discuss the matchup, you can make a post on the Mii Gunner matchup thread.

It is also interesting that Little Mac mains think that they beat Gunner. Several Gunner players think that Mii Gunner goes 70:30 in that matchup. That matchup obviously needs to be discussed.
Can't really say anything about the MU because seriously

When does this MU even happen? lol
 

san.

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Can't really say anything about the MU because seriously

When does this MU even happen? lol
I destroyed the little Macs I played when I was still new to Gunner in Canada and Tristate. It's baaad.
 

Djmarcus44

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FullMoon said:
Can't really say anything about the MU because seriously

When does this MU even happen? lol
Honestly, you can say that about all of Gunner's matchups. Mii Gunner is so unpopular in Smash 4 that many people put "don't care" in their matchup chart against Gunner.

It is also funny how ROB mains put that they beat Gunner even though I posted a wall of text that stated otherwise (that probably went ignored). I even included tournament results of Gunner beating ROB to substantiate my point.
 

IndigoSSB

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1.:4sheik:- loses to Lucario lol
2.:4pikachu:- 48
3.:rosalina:- 47
4.:4zss:- 45
5.:4greninja:- 44
6.:4fox:- 43
-.:4metaknight:- 43
-.:4yoshi:- 43
9.:4diddy:- 42
-.:4ness:- 42
11.:4miibrawl:- 41
-.:4myfriends:- 41
13.:4sonic:- 40
14.:4pit:- 39
15.:4lucas:- 38
-.:4olimar:- 38
-.:4villager:- 38
18.:4lucario: 37
19:4miigun:- 36
20.:4megaman:- 34
21.:4peach:- 33
22.:4robinf:- 32
-.:4wiifit:- 32
24.:4drmario:- 31
-.:4falcon:- 31
-.:4gaw:- 31
-.:4marth:- 31
-.:4pacman:- 31
29.:4wario:- 30
30.:4mario:- 29
-.:4ryu:- 29
32.:4rob:- 28
-.:4tlink:- 28
34.:4luigi:- 26
-.:4littlemac:- 26
36.:4feroy:- 24
-.:4samus:- 24
38.:4miisword:- 23
39.:4jigglypuff:- 22
40.:4bowserjr:- 21
-.:4palutena:- 21
42.:4link:- 20
-.:4shulk:- 20
44.:4lucina:- 19
-.:4kirby:- 19
46.:4charizard:- 18
-.:4falco:- 18
-.:4mewtwo:- 18
49.:4ganondorf:- 16
50.:4duckhunt:- 15
51.:4dk:- 13
52.:4dedede:- 12
53.:4bowser:- 8
-.:4zelda:- 8

Ordered them according to how many supposed good match-ups in case you guys are interested.. The number on the right is the number of match-ups that character wins and the number on the left is their ranking, a dash means it's tied for a place. The results are interesting in a strange way, with a lot of weird placings every once in a while, like DK being disgustingly low.

On a slightly personal note, Falco has worse match-ups than Jiggly Puff. That makes me sad.
 
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Pazx

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Pazx, the votes of each side of the characters are never combined. The square on Diddy's row and ZSS's column is a different square than the one on ZSS's row and Diddy's column.
That's how you've decided to do it, which is different to most matchup charts. I don't think your decision not to combine votes from each side is necessarily a bad idea, because seeing what each side thinks of a matchup is indeed interesting, but I think your method is likely inferior to a more traditional matchup chart (where if A beats B then B loses to A) and the addition of a way to represent even matchups due to the following.

The Diddy:ZSS example is clearly even, going purely off of the votes you received, but this is poorly represented in the actual chart (a red square for each character, not hugely wrong as it indicates neither character feels they have an advantage, but still not very good). Combining the votes for both characters would result in an even matchup, which could be represented by a third colour. A hypothetical matchup where 3 Diddies think they lose but 9 Marios think they lose (assuming no other votes) would be represented by a red square for both characters in your chart, when the total votes clearly would indicate that the matchup is likely in Diddy's favour. Combining the votes for both characters would result in the Diddies having a blue square and the Marios having a red square, which represents the votes far better.

Edit:

1.:4sheik:- loses to Lucario lol
2.:4pikachu:- 48
3.:rosalina:- 47
4.:4zss:- 45
5.:4greninja:- 44
6.:4fox:- 43
-.:4metaknight:- 43
-.:4yoshi:- 43
9.:4diddy:- 42
-.:4ness:- 42
11.:4miibrawl:- 41
-.:4myfriends:- 41
13.:4sonic:- 40
14.:4pit:- 39
15.:4lucas:- 38
-.:4olimar:- 38
-.:4villager:- 38
18.:4lucario: 37
19:4miigun:- 36
20.:4megaman:- 34
21.:4peach:- 33
22.:4robinf:- 32
-.:4wiifit:- 32
24.:4drmario:- 31
-.:4falcon:- 31
-.:4gaw:- 31
-.:4marth:- 31
-.:4pacman:- 31
29.:4wario:- 30
30.:4mario:- 29
-.:4ryu:- 29
32.:4rob:- 28
-.:4tlink:- 28
34.:4luigi:- 26
-.:4littlemac:- 26
36.:4feroy:- 24
-.:4samus:- 24
38.:4miisword:- 23
39.:4jigglypuff:- 22
40.:4bowserjr:- 21
-.:4palutena:- 21
42.:4link:- 20
-.:4shulk:- 20
44.:4lucina:- 19
-.:4kirby:- 19
46.:4charizard:- 18
-.:4falco:- 18
-.:4mewtwo:- 18
49.:4ganondorf:- 16
50.:4duckhunt:- 15
51.:4dk:- 13
52.:4dedede:- 12
53.:4bowser:- 8
-.:4zelda:- 8

Ordered them according to how many supposed good match-ups in case you guys are interested.. The number on the right is the number of match-ups that character wins and the number on the left is their ranking, a dash means it's tied for a place. The results are interesting in a strange way, with a lot of weird placings every once in a while, like DK being disgustingly low.

On a slightly personal note, Falco has worse match-ups than Jiggly Puff. That makes me sad.
This post for instance would be far more interesting to me if it was based off of the combined votes of characters on either side of the matchup (so we wouldn't have things like Sheik "losing" to Lucario or Puff being overrated by Puff mains).
 
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valakmtnsmash4

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I was expecting a lot more characters to go with beating Greninja so I'm pleasantly surprised on that front.

Still, funny that Shulk, G&W, Gunner, Brawler, Dr.Mario and Pit mains think they beat us. The rest all seem to be pretty reasonable.
Nah you ninja frogs beat us monado boys 60:40 for the most part.
 

valakmtnsmash4

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Why are shulk mains scared of puff and Zard? I don't see anything threatening about them.
 

PGH_Chrispy

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For Shulk, I imagine it's shield pressure - he so much as taps Jigglypuff's shield, she can jump out with a Nair. Meanwhile, she should be able to space fairs on him all day as long as she avoids that utilt. Bowser I can't offer as much for.

Great work! I can't find any reason to disagree with any of Zelda's favorable matchups, and they seem to agree to some extent with her opponent's opinions.
 

arbustopachon

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Zard has sligtly less awful frame data and flamethrower can kinda annoy shulk? I'm not sure...
Charizard's out of shield game is better than shulk so theres that, however im not really buying that zard wins the matchup.
Shulk has actual aerial movility, better range and is not a sitting duck just for landing with an attack.
 

Dee-SmashinBoss

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If this was done after the patch.....Some characters really got noticeable buffs that might have changed a good chunk of MUs.

So....after Februraries patch(possible the last) are you possibly going to re ask all the boards again? You know, cause it is possible something huge is gonna happen.
 
D

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There really needed to be some clarification in regards to Miis whether they were 1111, guest size or any size/any set. I just voted for 1111s when it came for voting on Dedede's MUs.

Also a lot of people who main a low/mid tier overrates their main most of the time. Jigglypuff's MU spread is nowhere is good as it is here. Her beating ZSS? pls
 
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valakmtnsmash4

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:denzel::denzel:
There really needed to be some clarification in regards to Miis whether they were 1111, guest size or any size/any set. I just voted for 1111s when it came for voting on Dedede's MUs.

Also a lot of people who main a low/mid tier overrates their main most of the time. Jigglypuff's MU spread is nowhere is good as it is here. Her beating ZSS? pls
Shulk having less good MU's than puff.:psycho::psycho::denzel:
I think doc has potential against Some high tiers, like pika or maybe yoshi.
 
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aεrgiα

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There really needed to be some clarification in regards to Miis whether they were 1111, guest size or any size/any set. I just voted for 1111s when it came for voting on Dedede's MUs.

Also a lot of people who main a low/mid tier overrates their main most of the time. Jigglypuff's MU spread is nowhere is good as it is here. Her beating ZSS? pls
but crouch op!!! theres no way someone with a toolkit as lacklustre as zzs can deal with it ;p (no really i would love to know the reasoning behind jiggs beating zss, theres no way i realistically see that happening ;/ ) but theres definitely something off with jiggs votes, the mains give her 22 winning mus and the other character boards give her 4 wins, making her tied for second worst mu spread when viewed by the other characters(lol mewtwo :( even before the buff his mu spread wasnt that bad lol)
the issue is which set should the votes be on, seeing as if you limit the miis to one set, a lot of the mii mains will not know the mu, since most will play with their optimal set, but if you allow the miis to freely use all their moves, then most of the other character boards will have no clue since miis are hard enough to find as is, and even then most tournaments, especially majors, limit miis to 1111.

its interesting to see the "bad" mu spread of the dk mains though, is this due to a lot of 50:50 mu being turned into losing mu(so say there were 6 votes 00000- and that got "rounded down" to - ?) or is it just generally low opinion of the mains?

Edit: its also interesting to see that, according to the opinion of the other characters, pika has the second best mu spread, despite not being seen as the second best character in the game :)
 
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divade

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I think a constructive use of this chart if you disagree with your characters matchup is to copy the thread or image, and discuss it with the appropriate peers. I'm gonna toss this into the BowserJr social and see what ppl think.
 

Zareidriel

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Mii fighter voters were able to choose any ruleset that was comfortable to them, they used personally etc. The same goes for characters voting for their matchup against the Mii fighters in question. But the size is always normal, guest size. So I suppose their Chart results are an amalgamation of any moveset and 1111. I think, more often than not, Miis fighters chose to use their entire moveset.
 

aεrgiα

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265
i wanted to compare the opinion of mains with what the other characters mains thought of the mu(thankfully half of it was already done for me). i cant guarantee that i didnt misscount anything since i only went over it once but overall it should be accurate:
1.:4sheik::51
2.:4pikachu::46
3.:4zss::44
3.:4fox::44
3.:4mario::44
6.:4yoshi::42
7.:4sonic::41
7.:4diddy::41
9.:4metaknight::40
9.:rosalina::40
11.:4villager::38
12.:4ness::36
13.:4greninja::34
14.:4ryu::32
14.:4pit::32
14.:4olimar::32
17.:4tlink::31
18.:4rob::30
19.:4megaman::29
20.:4luigi::28
21.:4wario::27
22.:4lucario::25
22.:4peach::25
22.:4drmario::25
25.:4myfriends::24
26.:4falcon::23
26.:4lucas::23
26.:4link::23
29.:4pacman::22
29.:4miibrawl::22
31.:4robinm::21
31.:4falco::21
33.:4marth::18
34.:4lucina::16
34.:4duckhunt::16
34:4gaw::16
37.:4miigun::15
38.:4kirby::14
39.:4dk::13
39.:4feroy::13
41.:4wiifit::12
42.:4wiremac::11
42.:4shulk::11
42.:4samus::11
45.:4dedede::10
46.:4bowserjr::8
47.:4zelda::7
48.:4palutena::6
48.:4miisword::6
50.:4charizard::5
51.:4ganondorf::4
51.:4jigglypuff::4
53.:4bowser::3
54.:4mewtwo::0

and as a reference
1.:4sheik:- loses to Lucario lol
2.:4pikachu:- 48
3.:rosalina:- 47
4.:4zss:- 45
5.:4greninja:- 44
6.:4fox:- 43
-.:4metaknight:- 43
-.:4yoshi:- 43
9.:4diddy:- 42
-.:4ness:- 42
11.:4miibrawl:- 41
-.:4myfriends:- 41
13.:4sonic:- 40
14.:4pit:- 39
15.:4lucas:- 38
-.:4olimar:- 38
-.:4villager:- 38
18.:4lucario: 37
19:4miigun:- 36
20.:4megaman:- 34
21.:4peach:- 33
22.:4robinf:- 32
-.:4wiifit:- 32
24.:4drmario:- 31
-.:4falcon:- 31
-.:4gaw:- 31
-.:4marth:- 31
-.:4pacman:- 31
29.:4wario:- 30
30.:4mario:- 29
-.:4ryu:- 29
32.:4rob:- 28
-.:4tlink:- 28
34.:4luigi:- 26
-.:4littlemac:- 26
36.:4feroy:- 24
-.:4samus:- 24
38.:4miisword:- 23
39.:4jigglypuff:- 22
40.:4bowserjr:- 21
-.:4palutena:- 21
42.:4link:- 20
-.:4shulk:- 20
44.:4lucina:- 19
-.:4kirby:- 19
46.:4charizard:- 18
-.:4falco:- 18
-.:4mewtwo:- 18
49.:4ganondorf:- 16
50.:4duckhunt:- 15
51.:4dk:- 13
52.:4dedede:- 12
53.:4bowser:- 8
-.:4zelda:- 8

Ordered them according to how many supposed good match-ups in case you guys are interested.. The number on the right is the number of match-ups that character wins and the number on the left is their ranking, a dash means it's tied for a place. The results are interesting in a strange way, with a lot of weird placings every once in a while, like DK being disgustingly low.

On a slightly personal note, Falco has worse match-ups than Jiggly Puff. That makes me sad.
 
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Jaguar360

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This isn't so bad actually. Zelda's seems pretty accurate, though I think she probably loses to Mewtwo, especially post-buff Mewtwo.

Us Greninjas weren't being overconfident I think. Greninja's matchup spread is actually really good and he's a likely high tier. He lacks results and representation, but they are coming in with iStudying, Gibus, Venia, Eddy and Elexiao. On the matchup chart itself, it looks fine for him, but it would look more accurate if some of those were turned into even matchups, since that's what a good amount of those are. Same for Zelda and everyone else.

Thanks for doing this Zarei.
 
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Zareidriel

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Another fun thing you can do is copy+paste the characters you play/are interested in and see how where their matchup weaknesses are. And you can do in either rows or columns.

matchups.png
 

TheHypnotoad

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I just realized that Little Mac players believe they lose to Jigglypuff, which I find funny because that MU is disgusting for Jigglypuff. She has a whopping 0 landing options against him, and her ground game is so terrible that Little Mac has no consequences if he just spams smash attacks because of his super armor.
 

Zareidriel

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Jaguar360 Jaguar360 I agree that Greninja's matchups are good, don't get me wrong. But sayin he has the 5th best spread, right behind ZSS and before Metaknight, Fox, Diddy, Sonic, AND Mario...then you compare that with his Rank 13th as ranked by the other characters. You may think it has to do with under-representation, but it just seems to me like the Greninja voters were only a tad overzealous with the positive attitude. Not that I mind, of course.

For the sake of figuring out the best character to use per matchup, I made an inverted vertical spread (the ones that contain the opponent's opinions), attached it to the horizontal one, and highlighted which character to use. If you struggle with knowing which of your characters to choose, I recommend making something like this if you have the time.

Or you could just play Sheik and not worry about it. :chuckle:

halfdoublematchnegalights.png
 
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