Zareidriel
zuh-RAY-dree-ole
- Joined
- May 11, 2006
- Messages
- 1,145
- NNID
- Zareidriei
First of all, take this:
This Matchup Chart should be taken with a grain of salt because the results of the chart are based on the objective opinions of any Smashboards user who was motivated enough to participate. There is very little special treatment given to the votes of higher-skilled players, so this chart is, more literally, a "picture of the "perceived" matchups, as seen from the perspectives of players of each character, of varying skill levels" chart. I'm sure there will be complaints even with this warning, but just don't take this chart too seriously or try to treat it as "canon meta". Anyway,
Hi! I'm Zareidriel (zuh-RAY-dree-ole). Without further ado:
Looks cool huh? It's actually turned out more accurate-ish than I expected.
Fun facts:
-There are some mid-tier characters like Lucas and Greninja have spreads I would consider..."overconfident"
-Everyone thinks they beat Mewtwo lol (this vote was from before he got buffed though)
-Kirby and Ryu think they can take on Sheik but
-Sheik is scared only of Lucario
First of all, thank you to all the character boards and everyone who voted, you all made this chart possible!
A Light Cyan square means the horizontal character beats the vertical character. A Dark Red square means the vertical character beats the horizontal character.
If you want to see what people who play your character think your matchups are, read from your character's stock icon on the left side, from left to right. If you want to see what the players of other characters think their matchup is against YOUR character, read the chart from your character's stock icon on the top, from top to bottom.
Here is the original thread that spawned the idea for this chart:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-bros-u-character-matchup-chart.387279/
F.A.Q. (Future Asked Questions)
Aside from that, there were some other reasons. Neutral matchups are boring. It makes the chart look less crisp. Should I make it even when there are four + and four -? What about when there are nine 0/='s and four +'s, should that be a 0/= or a +?
Needless to say, having the results just be in terms of + and - made the process of interpreting the votes more simple and clean. However, I did make the mistake of taking neutral votes (0/=) from the beginning of the voting process, something I would not have done if I knew I would end up deciding to display the chart in terms of only positive and negative. I believe we would have had more accurate results if I had done so. Completely my fault. もうしわけありません
-Matchup charts, if the character board has them
-Matchup discussions
-Who are the most prominent/most skilled/most well known voters? What did they vote?
-Post count, if absolutely necessary, indicates not skill, but at least involvement in the Smash community and possibly even some degree of knowledge
-The vote of the other character, from the opposite perspective, was also slightly taken into account; though most of the time the other character would be claiming the advantage
A. Most of the time this is because there were less than 5 votes and I had to hit up one of my friends on Smashladder or IRL to cast a ballot. Also, very occasionally I would double the weight of a ballot for a well-known high-skill player.
A. Mii fighter voters were able to choose any ruleset that was comfortable to them, they used personally etc. The same goes for characters voting for their matchup against the Mii fighters in question. But the size is always normal, guest size. So I suppose their Chart results are an amalgamation of any moveset and 1111. I think, more often than not, Miis fighters chose to use their entire moveset.
~4 hours to make the original threads in every character board
~4 hours answering questions in the threads
~30 hours talliying votes. This is not an exaggeration.
~15 hours to make the chart. From 3 AM to noon a few days ago, and from midnight to 6 AM tonight.
Around 50 or 60 hours between November and January. Much longer than I expected. =_=
I think the main strength of this chart is as a tool to find possible counterpicks. If you're looking for a Pikachu counter, you can look down the column for Pikachu and say, "Well, the Ikes think they've got Pika's number, maybe I should try some Ike? Hey I've been having Marth trouble and they both list Marth the loser of the Marth/Ike matchup..." and so forth. No, it will not be 100% accurate, but it's a place to start where before, there was nothing.
Special thanks to:
@Assassannerr for creating the original chart
@Zage for updating the orignal chart
@Incoleo for PMing me a hell of a lot of votes and probably saving me like 10 hours
@vegeta18 for sending me a ton of votes as well
...as well as everyone who helped, voted, or encouraged me along the way!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, what is this thread for and not for?
This thread is NOT for:
-DO NOT flame or mock other users, other characters, this chart or me (I will get you). This is Rule #1 of this thread.
-DO NOT express how your character TOTALLY WINS A CERTAIN MATCHUP DUDE, or bicker-quote-war back and forth with another user about who wins the matchup. This is Rule #2.
-What should have been done on this chart, what you would have done, or what should be done for the next one. This thread would be absolutely flooded, so this is off-topic, please refrain from discussing things like these.
This thread IS for:
-Discussing a certain matchup in calm, eloquent manner. There is a fine line between this and Rule #2, and the secret to staying on the right side of the law is not being an asshole.
-Questions, comments, and criticisms of the chart.
-Reactions, including reaction faces
-Inspirational messages
-Asuka pictures
I will be reading this thread, and if there is compelling text arguments and/or video evidence presented in a calm and eloquent manner throughout the thread, I may slowly change some of the matchup chart results over time.
Thanks again! Hope you guys find this thing useful. I have big plans for 2016, so stay tuned! Let's just say...the Chart will be getting major upgrades in multiple areas.
-Zareidriel
This Matchup Chart should be taken with a grain of salt because the results of the chart are based on the objective opinions of any Smashboards user who was motivated enough to participate. There is very little special treatment given to the votes of higher-skilled players, so this chart is, more literally, a "picture of the "perceived" matchups, as seen from the perspectives of players of each character, of varying skill levels" chart. I'm sure there will be complaints even with this warning, but just don't take this chart too seriously or try to treat it as "canon meta". Anyway,
Hi! I'm Zareidriel (zuh-RAY-dree-ole). Without further ado:
Looks cool huh? It's actually turned out more accurate-ish than I expected.
Fun facts:
-There are some mid-tier characters like Lucas and Greninja have spreads I would consider..."overconfident"
-Everyone thinks they beat Mewtwo lol (this vote was from before he got buffed though)
-Kirby and Ryu think they can take on Sheik but
-Sheik is scared only of Lucario
First of all, thank you to all the character boards and everyone who voted, you all made this chart possible!
A Light Cyan square means the horizontal character beats the vertical character. A Dark Red square means the vertical character beats the horizontal character.
If you want to see what people who play your character think your matchups are, read from your character's stock icon on the left side, from left to right. If you want to see what the players of other characters think their matchup is against YOUR character, read the chart from your character's stock icon on the top, from top to bottom.
Here is the original thread that spawned the idea for this chart:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-bros-u-character-matchup-chart.387279/
F.A.Q. (Future Asked Questions)
A. Out of everything, I think I'll be getting the most complaints about this one. For one thing, there is the intent of the original creator:Zareidriel said:Q. Why are there only + and - matchups, and not even matchups?
The lack of even matchups makes the chart more useful. In reality, there will be far less truly bad matchups than this chart indicates. But the presence of any "bad matchups" on this chart represents a place where the matchup is at least even, and that it may be possible to use the offending charcter as a counterpick.Assassannerr said:NOTE: While you can use the Black Dot if you want, (Representing an even matchup) I would highly reccomend that you don't as the only true even matchups would be the same character...
Aside from that, there were some other reasons. Neutral matchups are boring. It makes the chart look less crisp. Should I make it even when there are four + and four -? What about when there are nine 0/='s and four +'s, should that be a 0/= or a +?
Needless to say, having the results just be in terms of + and - made the process of interpreting the votes more simple and clean. However, I did make the mistake of taking neutral votes (0/=) from the beginning of the voting process, something I would not have done if I knew I would end up deciding to display the chart in terms of only positive and negative. I believe we would have had more accurate results if I had done so. Completely my fault. もうしわけありません
A. This was a pretty tricky aspect of filling the chart out; looking at the votes and just filling in a Cyan or Red was easy. The hard part is sorting out what to do with all the tied votes, and it became a process that starts with going back to the character board in question. I would then look for these sources of information:Zareidriel said:Q. How did you determine which way to swing a vote that ended up being a total of 0/neutral?
-Matchup charts, if the character board has them
-Matchup discussions
-Who are the most prominent/most skilled/most well known voters? What did they vote?
-Post count, if absolutely necessary, indicates not skill, but at least involvement in the Smash community and possibly even some degree of knowledge
-The vote of the other character, from the opposite perspective, was also slightly taken into account; though most of the time the other character would be claiming the advantage
A. There are a few reasons for this. The game is too early in its infancy, and our knowledge too shaky, for us to be able to provide accurate measures of this, except in extreme matchup cases, which are honestly pretty few and far between in this game. It would have massively complicated the receiving, counting, and interpretation of votes. Sure it could have been done, but with each complication, the sheer time requirement goes up by...quite a hell of a lot. So, basically for "accuracy" and time reasons.Zareidriel said:Q. Why did you not do matchup ratios (55:45) or weighted advantage/disadvantage? (++/---)
Zareidriel said:Q. Why do the votes on the forums sometimes not equal the matchup chart result?
A. Most of the time this is because there were less than 5 votes and I had to hit up one of my friends on Smashladder or IRL to cast a ballot. Also, very occasionally I would double the weight of a ballot for a well-known high-skill player.
Zareidriel said:Q. What ruleset was used for Mii Fighters, 1111 or their entire moveset?
A. Mii fighter voters were able to choose any ruleset that was comfortable to them, they used personally etc. The same goes for characters voting for their matchup against the Mii fighters in question. But the size is always normal, guest size. So I suppose their Chart results are an amalgamation of any moveset and 1111. I think, more often than not, Miis fighters chose to use their entire moveset.
A. My estimates are about this much:Zareidriel said:Q. How many hours did this chart take to make?
~4 hours to make the original threads in every character board
~4 hours answering questions in the threads
~30 hours talliying votes. This is not an exaggeration.
~15 hours to make the chart. From 3 AM to noon a few days ago, and from midnight to 6 AM tonight.
Around 50 or 60 hours between November and January. Much longer than I expected. =_=
A. The chart is equally usable by people with any form of colorblindness.Zareidriel said:Q. Why did you go with that color scheme?
A. That's Asuka, of course.Zareidriel said:Q. Who is yelling in the top-left corner of the chart?
I think the main strength of this chart is as a tool to find possible counterpicks. If you're looking for a Pikachu counter, you can look down the column for Pikachu and say, "Well, the Ikes think they've got Pika's number, maybe I should try some Ike? Hey I've been having Marth trouble and they both list Marth the loser of the Marth/Ike matchup..." and so forth. No, it will not be 100% accurate, but it's a place to start where before, there was nothing.
Special thanks to:
@Assassannerr for creating the original chart
@Zage for updating the orignal chart
@Incoleo for PMing me a hell of a lot of votes and probably saving me like 10 hours
@vegeta18 for sending me a ton of votes as well
...as well as everyone who helped, voted, or encouraged me along the way!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, what is this thread for and not for?
This thread is NOT for:
-DO NOT flame or mock other users, other characters, this chart or me (I will get you). This is Rule #1 of this thread.
-DO NOT express how your character TOTALLY WINS A CERTAIN MATCHUP DUDE, or bicker-quote-war back and forth with another user about who wins the matchup. This is Rule #2.
-What should have been done on this chart, what you would have done, or what should be done for the next one. This thread would be absolutely flooded, so this is off-topic, please refrain from discussing things like these.
This thread IS for:
-Discussing a certain matchup in calm, eloquent manner. There is a fine line between this and Rule #2, and the secret to staying on the right side of the law is not being an asshole.
-Questions, comments, and criticisms of the chart.
-Reactions, including reaction faces
-Inspirational messages
-Asuka pictures
I will be reading this thread, and if there is compelling text arguments and/or video evidence presented in a calm and eloquent manner throughout the thread, I may slowly change some of the matchup chart results over time.
Thanks again! Hope you guys find this thing useful. I have big plans for 2016, so stay tuned! Let's just say...the Chart will be getting major upgrades in multiple areas.
-Zareidriel
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