SSBM: Stage Banishment and Reasoning

[TheBuzzSaw]

Fun is not an element of tournament play. I cannot think of a single rule (correct me if I am wrong) in place to promote fun. "Taking fun out of the game" is a pathetically weak argument against any tournament rule. As Jarrs pointed out, casual players mock tournament rulings all while forgetting that they have no bearing on casual smashfests. Play the game how you want. If you decide you want to enter the competitive smash arena, start playing by the rules.

 

[Fandangox]

Fun is not an element of tournament play. I cannot think of a single rule (correct me if I am wrong) in place to promote fun. "Taking fun out of the game" is a pathetically weak argument against any tournament rule. As Jarrs pointed out, casual players mock tournament rulings all while forgetting that they have no bearing on casual smashfests. Play the game how you want. If you decide you want to enter the competitive smash arena, start playing by the rules.

That's true If you want to enter to competivee play you just have to play by the rules if you want to a 4 players macth with full intems in super sudden death in supler flat zone, invite your friends (you should try that setting it is hilarious)

by the way

Fun is not an element of tournament play.

then I wonder why they play.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm not saying "you can't have fun in tournaments". I'm just saying that no rule in tournaments is there for the express purpose of increasing fun. The rules are there to increase balance and fairness. Fun is a natural side effect.

Smashfests are designed for fun. They give everyone turns, and there are no stakes.

 

[Bajef8]

i don't get something. if a tie in stock is resulted in melee beacuse the 8 minutes is up, why don't you guys just play the sudden death match afterward instead of saying whoever had the higest percent loses? if you are worried about the random bombs that start to fall then just make a rule that says you can't run away in a sudden death match so you can hope for the best.

 

[brawlpro]

I even found a few youtube comments from mr ''Brawlpro'' (no joke thats his name on youtube and here) about how Ken is cheap for chaingrabbing bombsoldier and winning.

That comment was made 6 months ago when I didn't know jack about competitive smash. gg

 

[Sariku]

BUMP -

For those listening to SMYN.

 

[Pantsmann]

i don't get something. if a tie in stock is resulted in melee beacuse the 8 minutes is up, why don't you guys just play the sudden death match afterward instead of saying whoever had the higest percent loses? if you are worried about the random bombs that start to fall then just make a rule that says you can't run away in a sudden death match so you can hope for the best.

because sudden death involves a lot of luck, and as said before (if you bothered to read it), it's incredibly unfair to the person who has 0% to tie with somebody who has 250% and then lose cause of a bomb-omb. sudden death almost always favours the faster character. it is rare that you get an instance where the percentages are close and the time runs out.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I posted this in another thread, but I think this is a pretty good reason for a stage ban.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKi7eHRODs

 

[greenblob]

Fox can wallshine on plenty of legal stages in Melee. I don't see how this alone could cause a stage ban.

 

[sugarpoultry]

Most likely counter pick stages though right?

So far Dedede is the only one that can chain grab this bad in Brawl, so I wish this stage would be banned just for him, but thats not really possible for some reason.

 

[IPityDaFoo]

This has already been answered at least a few times. Summary:
1. On Hyrule Temple, banning Fox just means that the next fastest character becomes unbeatable. And most of the other stages just list him because he's the easiest example of why the stage is broken.
2. Most people would rather ban 10 stages than 1 character.

I'm sure I'll catch some heat for this but the core of my arguments against said rules is for imbalance.

By promoting stages certain stages, banning others, banning items and counting percentages as hit points you've effectively banned over half the characters. Who is going to fly further? Pikachu at 28% or Bowser at 29%? If Yoshi 64 is in play and Fox gives the run around, with items on isn't there a fair chance someone could get a ray gun, a heart, food, etc. to break the cycle? Don't characters such as Fox have a large advantage over most characters on Final Destination? I think you see what I'm getting at.

As for the "Tournament rules don't affect casual play" argument, it's even clear in this thread how casual players are frowned upon and served derogatory statements such as "scrub" (spare me, I was around when that phrase was coined) I'm not saying you shouldn't play the way you want-- quite the opposite. I am however saying that tournament rules do not lead to a true test of skill, are not "balanced and fair", and probably cannot be. Perhaps they are the best you've got and can come up with but I still find it severely flawed at best.

/my 2 cents

 

[Super Drybones]

It seems as thou many of Brawls stages will be counterpick, but we'll have to wait and see what new techniques come out.

 

[Sliq]

I'm sure I'll catch some heat for this but the core of my arguments against said rules is for imbalance.

By promoting stages certain stages, banning others, banning items and counting percentages as hit points you've effectively banned over half the characters. Who is going to fly further? Pikachu at 28% or Bowser at 29%? If Yoshi 64 is in play and Fox gives the run around, with items on isn't there a fair chance someone could get a ray gun, a heart, food, etc. to break the cycle? Don't characters such as Fox have a large advantage over most characters on Final Destination? I think you see what I'm getting at.

As for the "Tournament rules don't affect casual play" argument, it's even clear in this thread how casual players are frowned upon and served derogatory statements such as "scrub" (spare me, I was around when that phrase was coined) I'm not saying you shouldn't play the way you want-- quite the opposite. I am however saying that tournament rules do not lead to a true test of skill, are not "balanced and fair", and probably cannot be. Perhaps they are the best you've got and can come up with but I still find it severely flawed at best.

/my 2 cents

 

[Papapaint]

I'm sure I'll catch some heat for this but the core of my arguments against said rules is for imbalance.

By promoting stages certain stages, banning others, banning items and counting percentages as hit points you've effectively banned over half the characters. Who is going to fly further? Pikachu at 28% or Bowser at 29%? If Yoshi 64 is in play and Fox gives the run around, with items on isn't there a fair chance someone could get a ray gun, a heart, food, etc. to break the cycle? Don't characters such as Fox have a large advantage over most characters on Final Destination? I think you see what I'm getting at.

As for the "Tournament rules don't affect casual play" argument, it's even clear in this thread how casual players are frowned upon and served derogatory statements such as "scrub" (spare me, I was around when that phrase was coined) I'm not saying you shouldn't play the way you want-- quite the opposite. I am however saying that tournament rules do not lead to a true test of skill, are not "balanced and fair", and probably cannot be. Perhaps they are the best you've got and can come up with but I still find it severely flawed at best.

/my 2 cents

Some characters are inherently better. If we played with items and all stages on, Fox would still have an inherent advantage.

 

[SN3S]

I'm not saying "you can't have fun in tournaments". I'm just saying that no rule in tournaments is there for the express purpose of increasing fun. The rules are there to increase balance and fairness. Fun is a natural side effect.

Smashfests are designed for fun. They give everyone turns, and there are no stakes.

QFT; This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from a pro puzzle game player (Puyo Puyo 2 if you must know),

"You're not here to have fun. Not yet. You're here to learn how to get better. Once you get better and start winning, then you'll have fun."

 

[Pantsmann]

By promoting stages certain stages, banning others, banning items and counting percentages as hit points you've effectively banned over half the characters. Who is going to fly further? Pikachu at 28% or Bowser at 29%? If Yoshi 64 is in play and Fox gives the run around, with items on isn't there a fair chance someone could get a ray gun, a heart, food, etc. to break the cycle? Don't characters such as Fox have a large advantage over most characters on Final Destination? I think you see what I'm getting at.

"characters such as fox" have an advantage on all stages. the low tiers don't have many stages that give them advantages. the banned stages are the ones that take away the advantages that "characters such as fox" gain. "characters such as fox" get advantages over "characters that aren't such as fox" on the banned stages quite easily, and much more extensively than on the non-banned stages. bowser rocks on yoshi's story, however he sucks on pretty much all of the banned stages.

As for the "Tournament rules don't affect casual play" argument, it's even clear in this thread how casual players are frowned upon and served derogatory statements such as "scrub" (spare me, I was around when that phrase was coined)

woah, look where you are first. this place is the centre of competitive smash. people posting in this thread are supposed to be talking about competitive smash. the people who are getting frowned apon are those who fail to see that we're talking about competitive smash even though right in teh first post it's talking about tournaments.

I'm not saying you shouldn't play the way you want-- quite the opposite. I am however saying that tournament rules do not lead to a true test of skill, are not "balanced and fair", and probably cannot be. Perhaps they are the best you've got and can come up with but I still find it severely flawed at best.

/my 2 cents

well maybe, but possibly if pretty much the entire intelligent competitive community sees YOUR propositions as severly flawed at best, then maybe you'd like to reconsider our "severly flawed" way of doing things. the rules have been evolved over 7 years by the top of the top competitive players who are constantly trying to make the tournament rules as revolved around skill as possible. that's why inconsistancies that shallow the metagame, such as items and the banned stages, were taken out of tournament play.

 

[Winston]

I'm sure I'll catch some heat for this but the core of my arguments against said rules is for imbalance.

By promoting stages certain stages, banning others, banning items and counting percentages as hit points you've effectively banned over half the characters. Who is going to fly further? Pikachu at 28% or Bowser at 29%? If Yoshi 64 is in play and Fox gives the run around, with items on isn't there a fair chance someone could get a ray gun, a heart, food, etc. to break the cycle? Don't characters such as Fox have a large advantage over most characters on Final Destination? I think you see what I'm getting at.

As for the "Tournament rules don't affect casual play" argument, it's even clear in this thread how casual players are frowned upon and served derogatory statements such as "scrub" (spare me, I was around when that phrase was coined) I'm not saying you shouldn't play the way you want-- quite the opposite. I am however saying that tournament rules do not lead to a true test of skill, are not "balanced and fair", and probably cannot be. Perhaps they are the best you've got and can come up with but I still find it severely flawed at best.

/my 2 cents

Stage bans aren't made in some attempt to balance all of the characters.

Some stage bans are made in an effort to reduce the luck factor.

Other ones (the ones you seem to be arguing about) are there to prevent certain imbalanced TACTICS whose disproportionate power level would cause matches to degenerate into using that one tactic.

Fox is still top tier on fair stages, but matches with fox don't degenerate completely into lasers and camping.

 

[kr3wman]

I posted this in another thread, but I think this is a pretty good reason for a stage ban.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKi7eHRODs

Thread Necromancy is a baaad bad thing.

 

[chesterwester]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tourney***

 

[Sean²]

You're doing it wrong!

 

[hippochinfat!!]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tourney***

You're a loser scrub. Encyclopedia dramatica is a crappy site by the way, it isn't even funny. Uncyclopedia is way better.

 

[jalued]

are mute city and brimstar depths going to be added to the ban list soon since they both benefit peach and jigglypuff too much

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

God dang it. This was my favorite old reads too.
This thread was active in 2008.

 

[~Tac~]

-Blows the dust off-

Wow, what a digup.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why is this in the Brawl section?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Cuz scrubs were complaining about banning stages before barwl came out. there was an influx of scrubs when brawl got announced.

 

[MarthTrinity]

Thread Necromancy is a baaad bad thing.

Pretty sure this post applies here and now as well. . .