Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[popo12]

I played in the tournament earlier ( I was Nucleotyde there), and I might post some more thoughts tomorrow when I'm not as sleepy, but there are still a couple of things I still want to mention while they're fresh.

First, I really like Tomodachi Life. The layout is strange, and it's a bit large, but it wasn't terrible and disruptive. The stage alters the flow of play, but it doesn't seem to worsen it. I never had a match devolve into runaway, and there was a lot of maneuvering between the platforms. The high floor and low ceiling can lead to early kills, but it's something that you can position yourself to avoid, and the kills don't come terribly early. I had a lot of matches where me and my opponent were ducking up and down through the top platforms trying to land our finisher while avoid the other's, and it was really fun and tense. Plus you can drop bowling balls like 3 stories on it.

Second, I don't really like Mute City that much anymore. Mute City is a stage I really wanted to like (it's such a cool stage), but it just doesn't play that well in a serious match. At a given time, there are at least 3 platforms on the stage, all of which are big enough to fight comfortably on. The problem is that those platforms never seem to form a cohesive whole. With no ledges, a damaging floor, and no consistent platform layout, approaching your opponent between platforms is always risky. It seemed to slow the game down terribly, and I really didn't enjoy fighting on it. I could still see the stage being legal in a liberal stage list, but it's borderline.

Anyways, it was a fun tournament, and I really liked getting to try the stages out with real people who I didn't know already hated them.

P.S. Japes still sucks and I still hate it, but that's a topic for tomorrow.

 

[Piford]

I played in the tournament earlier ( I was Nucleotyde there), and I might post some more thoughts tomorrow when I'm not as sleepy, but there are still a couple of things I still want to mention while they're fresh.

First, I really like Tomodachi Life. The layout is strange, and it's a bit large, but it wasn't terrible and disruptive. The stage alters the flow of play, but it doesn't seem to worsen it. I never had a match devolve into runaway, and there was a lot of maneuvering between the platforms. The high floor and low ceiling can lead to early kills, but it's something that you can position yourself to avoid, and the kills don't come terribly early. I had a lot of matches where me and my opponent were ducking up and down through the top platforms trying to land our finisher while avoid the other's, and it was really fun and tense. Plus you can drop bowling balls like 3 stories on it.

Second, I don't really like Mute City that much anymore. Mute City is a stage I really wanted to like (it's such a cool stage), but it just doesn't play that well in a serious match. At a given time, there are at least 3 platforms on the stage, all of which are big enough to fight comfortably on. The problem is that those platforms never seem to form a cohesive whole. With no ledges, a damaging floor, and no consistent platform layout, approaching your opponent between platforms is always risky. It seemed to slow the game down terribly, and I really didn't enjoy fighting on it. I could still see the stage being legal in a liberal stage list, but it's borderline.

Anyways, it was a fun tournament, and I really liked getting to try the stages out with real people who I didn't know already hated them.

P.S. Japes still sucks and I still hate it, but that's a topic for tomorrow.

I fought so hard for Japes to be swapped out for Gaur Plains, but some people think it was too big. Then you had a bunch of people who lost unfairly cause of japes.

 

[LiteralGrill]

People may have still lost unfairly on Gaur Plains too though man. At least people were willing to try Japes, most just said Gaur was too big to test.

But if you wanna fight for it tomorrow I'll make sure the subreddit thread has a spot.

Speaking of which, as of what I saw in the tournament Tomodachi Life, Conrernia, and Reset Bomb Forest have the most suppoert with Raindbow Road really 50/50. I promise I'll get a link to the thread here when it's ready for tomorrow, but people felt VERY decisive that Jungle Japes and Mute City stood no shot, and Brinstar got more hate then love as well. So if people think those stages need to stay they'd better participate.

 

[Piford]

People may have still lost unfairly on Gaur Plains too though man. At least people were willing to try Japes, most just said Gaur was too big to test.

But if you wanna fight for it tomorrow I'll make sure the subreddit thread has a spot.

Speaking of which, as of what I saw in the tournament Tomodachi Life, Conrernia, and Reset Bomb Forest have the most suppoert with Raindbow Road really 50/50. I promise I'll get a link to the thread here when it's ready for tomorrow, but people felt VERY decisive that Jungle Japes and Mute City stood no shot, and Brinstar got more hate then love as well. So if people think those stages need to stay they'd better participate.

But at least Gaur Plains doesn't kill you. It's a static stage, so even if you loose "unfairly" on that stage its your fault for being in a position that caused that unfair kill, and the kill was instigated by your opponent.

 

[LiteralGrill]

But at least Gaur Plains doesn't kill you. It's a static stage, so even if you loose "unfairly" on that stage its your fault for being in a position that caused that unfair kill, and the kill was instigated by your opponent.

True, but how many people want to just chase folks around the whole time? In the end people were less afraid to try Jungle Japes then Gaur Plains and while that seems like a silly reason but if you can't convince folks to try it you can't. Also the few people who had played there before the event already had bad experiences with it. It seemed like they had data of their own.

HERE IS A LINK TO THE DISCUSSION THREAD, GO GET YO DEBATE ON!!!

 

[Piford]

True, but how many people want to just chase folks around the whole time? In the end people were less afraid to try Jungle Japes then Gaur Plains and while that seems like a silly reason but if you can't convince folks to try it you can't. Also the few people who had played there before the event already had bad experiences with it. It seemed like they had data of their own.

The stage most of the time ends up as more of an infinite than a circle for "camping" because it takes to long to fall through the platforms. Its much easier to intercept opponents in this way, and thats only if they choose that for whatever reason, its better to run around the stage for 8 minutes rather than actually play the game. Its most likely that they'll get hit once and end up in a bad position.

 

[popo12]

I'm not that salty about Japes being legal since the stage ended up helping me out a bit and my losses tend to be earned anyway. Plus that was the point of the tournament, and I went in knowing that. It's just a stage that I don't think lends itself to competitive play. I killed a Dark Pit at about 60% with Villager's watering can, of all things, to win a match. That's a no damage, weak knockback move killing a character with a strong recovery.

I'm personally not a fan of Gaur Plains, but it's admittedly a stage I haven't played much. It feels like it's a stage that was turned upside down. The lower platforms being so much smaller than the upper platforms makes it very uncomfortable to play on, and the gap in the center is going to cause some issues with approaching and camping. I don't think Reset's gap is much of a problem since there's a platform above that crosses the gap, meaning that you don't have to be entirely airborne to get across. That's not the case for Gaur (or Jungle Japes for that matter), meaning that the only way to cross puts you at a serious disadvantage. And on top of that it has a permanent walk-off on either side. I probably need to give it more of a chance, but it's definitely not a stage that I've enjoyed playing on. Omega version is cool as hell though, so there's that at least.

 

[Piford]

I'm not that salty about Japes being legal since the stage ended up helping me out a bit and my losses tend to be earned anyway. Plus that was the point of the tournament, and I went in knowing that. It's just a stage that I don't think lends itself to competitive play. I killed a Dark Pit at about 60% with Villager's watering can, of all things, to win a match. That's a no damage, weak knockback move killing a character with a strong recovery.

I'm personally not a fan of Gaur Plains, but it's admittedly a stage I haven't played much. It feels like it's a stage that was turned upside down. The lower platforms being so much smaller than the upper platforms makes it very uncomfortable to play on, and the gap in the center is going to cause some issues with approaching and camping. I don't think Reset's gap is much of a problem since there's a platform above that crosses the gap, meaning that you don't have to be entirely airborne to get across. That's not the case for Gaur (or Jungle Japes for that matter), meaning that the only way to cross puts you at a serious disadvantage. And on top of that it has a permanent walk-off on either side. I probably need to give it more of a chance, but it's definitely not a stage that I've enjoyed playing on. Omega version is cool as hell though, so there's that at least.

VIllager's water can doesn't get affected by damage %, so it still would've killed at 0% (assuming it wasn't part of a combo or something).
The upside downness of gaur plains is actually pretty cool since ariel characters have an advantage on bottom and ground characters have an advantage on top. The gap in the center actually isn't to dangerous, since using an attack in it usually results in landing on a platform or sweetspotting a ledge. But its not so safe that it can be abused. Its near impossible to walk-off camp in the stage since it has soft platforms as its walkoff.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Okay guys, I wanted to come in here and talk about what the poll and discussion is leading them thus far.

It seems like Tomodachi Life and Arena Ferox have very little opposition to be legal. Now for them being starter or counterpick, people are leaning towards counterpick, but Tomodachi has decent starter support.

On the opposite end, Mute City, Jungle Japes have no shot at legality. People dislike them too much and they seem to have some major issues.

Corneria and Rainbow Road are on the negative side with a few fighting for them. I think these ones wont make it sadly.

Brinstar and Reset Bomb Forest and HEAVILY contested, like split down the middle of ban or counterpick. I would seriously like to hear things on these as I feel this is where we will have to make a tough decision.

 

[popsofctown]

Just make everything neutral, FLSS. There's going to be more neutrals than counterpicks this time so it's practically the same, just a bit more strategic.

 

[popo12]

I'm really torn on Brinstar myself. The acid doesn't sway the match heavily since it's not terribly strong, and it's not unfair since it's very predictable. That said, it does seem to become the focus of the match. I died to falling through the center a couple of times, but that was my fault, and I died to getting combo'd out of the acid, but I felt like my opponent did well to take advantage of my situation. It's not a bad stage, and I don't think I'd be opposed to it being legal. That said, It's not a great stage and I don't enjoy playing on it. I'm going to be optimistic and say legal.

I think Reset Bomb is okay. First transformation is very good; if it was just that, it would be one of the better stages they've made in a long time. It reminds me a lot of a Norfair hack I played in PM that was designed to be a non-campy stage with a center gap, and it seems to work about as well as that one did. It's a unique layout that doesn't lead to terrible play patterns since both sides can be fought on easily and the platform gives you options to cross between them. The second transformation is kind of crap though; if it was just the second transformation, I'd say banned. The Lurchthorn really doesn't matter that much for it's legality. Doesn't kill until late, leaves you vulnerable even when it saves you, and it's on a timer. The stage's layout sucks though. A bunch of tiny, unconnected platforms that lead to camping and defensive play, then the rightmost one doesn't have a ledge for no reason. The ceilings and walls break quickly if you hit them, but create a brutal cave of life if you don't bother to. Stage 2 is bad, but it's temporary and I don't think it screws play enough to ruin a match. The main issue with it is that it lasts longer than stage 1, but I think it's pretty safe being legal for now.

I think Corneria and Rainbow Road still deserve a chance. I tended to enjoy my matches on Corneria, even if it is a bit janky. The blastzones are really close this time, but the hazards are fairly tame and the fin doesn't seem to cause as many issues as it did in previous games. I didn't get to play on Rainbow Road during the tournament, but I'm still leaning towards legal from what I've played. The transformations can be bad, but they are quite brief, and the shy guys are usually pretty easy to avoid and aren't terribly strong. I really think it's too early to write it off, but I admittedly need more experience with it.

Oh, and Tomodachi would work fine as a starter in my opinion, depending on the list. It's a much better stage than Ferox (Ferox isn't a bad stage, but it's much worse than the reception it received imo), and I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten a warmer reception.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Are people saying Japes has a high ceiling just because it was true in previous games? Because from what I've played, the ceiling seems lower than FD's now.

Also personally I really like Tomodachi. I thought I would of liked Arena Ferox more, but those unpassable walls that sometimes spawn are really annoying and the transformations last for quite a while.
Tomodachi on the other hand has no obstructions and is a really great counterpick for characters with long reach like Marth. I kind of wish this stage was in Melee just so I could play Marth on it

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I honestly love playing on Mute City a lot of the time. Definitely emphasizes aerial play, with characters like Jigglypuff and (from my experience) a minimum-size Mii Brawler doing absolutely amazing on it (Helicopter Kick is even easier to land when your foe is in the air most of the time). I've yet to see anything that would really do anything negative for its legality, especially since the lack of a consistent layout actually helps it in some ways. If you were stuck with a gap between the centre platform and the two side platforms, characters like Little Mac would have a very tough time with it. Instead, since the side platforms sometimes move over top of the middle platform, Little Mac can actually navigate the stage occasionally!

 

[popo12]

My problem with Mute City's layout is that it seems to stay spread out more often than not, making it difficult to cross the platforms without going to the cars. Since the cars also move, the track damages (and kills most of the cast in the 90-100% range), and there aren't any ledges to help you across, it's risky to cross whenever the platforms aren't together. This means you're going to stand there staring at the other guy quite a bit if he's not easy to approach. If the platforms stayed together most of the time and didn't move as far apart from each other, it would probably be an okay stage. As it is, it just feels to wonky for tournament play.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I played on Mute City recently in friendlies. Had an interesting moment when the healbot was over the Blue Falcon and I fell onto the track, bounce back and forth between the bot and the track several times.

Besides that bit of carelessness on my part, it feels like a legit stage to me. The cars get a warning signal above them when they are about to be bumped off. The gameplay does slow down a tad, but you can still safely make your way from one side to the other even with the shifting platforms.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

My problem with Mute City's layout is that it seems to stay spread out more often than not, making it difficult to cross the platforms without going to the cars. Since the cars also move, the track damages (and kills most of the cast in the 90-100% range), and there aren't any ledges to help you across, it's risky to cross whenever the platforms aren't together. This means you're going to stand there staring at the other guy quite a bit if he's not easy to approach. If the platforms stayed together most of the time and didn't move as far apart from each other, it would probably be an okay stage. As it is, it just feels to wonky for tournament play.

Yeah you're gonna have to walk around on the cars to get from one platform to the other without just jumping most of the time. And yeah, you're gonna have to use your air game if you want to get to the opponent without using the cars. There are definitely some characters who can camp this stage really well, as well as a few characters who can't really out-camp you but also aren't that great at getting in close through the air. I've not had that problem very often though since I mostly play the Mii Swordfighter (who is commonly the one doing the camping), the Mii Brawler (who is very good at not getting camped both on the ground and in the air), Pit (who doesn't camp on his own but can out-camp you if he has to, also his air-to-air game is pretty good), and Lucario (probably the one who has the most trouble, but at least he has his own projectile to work with).

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

This was posted on the subreddit, not sure if it's super useful info, but who knows?

When you play a game (that isn't solo smash) with 4 players (human or cpu) certain things on those stages are removed. Stages not listed I did not notice any difference on.

–Golden Plains:

The stage doesn’t scroll (probably the strangest effect)
–Rainbow Road:

Shyguys will not spawn
–Jungle Japes:

the klaptrap will not spawn
–Yoshi’s Island:

Flyguys don’t spawn
–Reset Bomb Forest:

Destructible platforms do not spawn

Lurchthorn (skeleton fish) does not spawn

–Distant Planet EDIT: sorry guys i made a mistake, it appears that the unions/pellets do spawn with 4 players my bad.

It never rains

–Tortimer Island:

Shark does not spawn

–Wily’s Castle:

Platforms do not appear

 

[LiteralGrill]

Yeah seriously, anyone in here who hasn't checked out the subreddit thread, or took its poll and commented there really should. There is some amazing discussion about the stages happening there from tons of every day players.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'll repeat what I said on the MC thread: a lot of characters in this game suffer no Freefall, so the lack of grabbable ledges is an actual mean of counterpick.

 

[Piford]

I'm definitely for every stage besides japes on the list being Legal. I don't really see an issue with Mute City besides thats its different, but I don't think it changes the way you. It should be noted that any poll taken from the subreddit is going to more in favor towards melee like rules, because a lot of people on it want Smash 4 to be as close to melee as possible.
Also people need to realize that the reason brinstar was banned in brawl was because Meta Knight was too good on too many stages.

 

[Karuzo]

Is there a difference with Walls than in the previous versions or why is Ferox allowed?

 

[Piford]

Is there a difference with Walls than in the previous versions or why is Ferox allowed?

There are no more wall infinites in this game.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Is there a difference with Walls than in the previous versions or why is Ferox allowed?

Striking a target who does not move from the knockback too many times will eventually push the attacker back. As a result, it is impossible to catch someone in a wall infinite. The only trap I've ever seen that comes even remotely close to a wall infinite is actually an "against the wall" infinite (except it's not even infinite). On Paper Mario, during the initial section with the fan, you have to place yourself with your back to the wall and perform a rapid jab, using the wind to prevent the foe from escaping.

 

[Karuzo]

Ah didn't know about that. Thanks!

 

[M15t3R E]

Omega is the same as FD. The few small difference aren't enough to warrant them being different stages.

MAking omegas have their own slot will over-centralize the game to FD. especially if we only have 4 other options that aren't flat ground. People who like FD will be buffed by our choice and hose who do not, will get nerfed.

I agree with the above. When somebody strikes or bans FD, all omega stages should also be considered stricken or banned.

 

[Count Bleck]

So... Just thought I'd bring this up bout Tomadachi Life...

It would appear Bowser can actually survive and recover from Bowsercides on this stage.

I've tested this myself, each time recovering without fail. Might have to test ganon as well.

EDIT: Tested with Ganon, he falls to fast for him to ever recover, but Bowser stilll recovers 100% of the time

 

[M15t3R E]

So... Just thought I'd bring this up bout Tomadachi Life...

It would appear Bowser can actually survive and recover from Bowsercides on this stage.

I've tested this myself, each time recovering without fail. Might have to test ganon as well.

EDIT: Tested with Ganon, he falls to fast for him to ever recover, but Bowser stilll recovers 100% of the time

Yes, Bowser can recover from his Bowsercide on stages in which the lower blast zone is very close to the stage. Confirmed to work on Tomodachi Life, WarioWare, Reset Bomb Factory, Pac-Maze, and some forms of Rainbow Road.

 

[MaxThunder]

This was posted on the subreddit, not sure if it's super useful info, but who knows?

only when there's 4 players?..

 

[YeahVeryeah]

So, to summarize the last page or two:

Starter:

FD
Fattlebield
Yoshi's Island

CP

Arena Ferox
Tomadachi Life (potential starter)
Prism Tower
Omega Forms* (are banned when fd is banned. if chosen, winner can choose which archetype of stage is played)

Testworthy

Reset Bomb Forest (cannot be run along mute city, unless bans increased)
Mute City (vice versa the above)
Brinstar (lava doesn't matter lava is op the stage is fine the stage falls apart jesus you people are arguing a lot over a pretty simple stage)
Rainbow Road (will probably be banned)
Corneria (will probably banned)

Opinions: The Cafe of Life in the second transformation of Reset Forest is pretty easy to destructable. Mute City has a pretty big random element to it. It seems to me that Reset Forest has a a much better shot and TOs should push for it over Mute City.

Brainstar is fine this early on. Maybe later we'll real ice that certain characters benefit from the weird slopes messing with hitboxes, but in the meantime its only trait during CP is that it benefits Air Game (which to my knowledge is within the realm of what CP is supposed to do.)

 

[LiteralGrill]

Alright guys, since it was one of the stages people wanted to test I decided to use some gameplay videos to take a look at Unova Pokemon League and actually found something noteworthy. This isn't a perfect analysis obviously, but I did my best with what I had.

The stage actually has a visual cue in the background to let you know when the stairs are going to come. There will spaces that open on the walls that give you a few seconds before the stairs come in. It even gives you a few seconds before the stairs come out (about 3-5 seconds, I couldn't get an accurate time without the game actually in hand). But it does give you time to get ready for the stairs.

ON TOP OF THAT the camera tends to zoom out slightly a little bit before this cue specifically shows up. This gives you PLENTY of time to know when the stairs are going to come out.

[collapse=Here Is The Visual Cue]

[/collapse]​

If you are holding the ledge when the stairs come in it will pop you up onto the stage instead of spiking you down to kill you. (Or so it seems from videos, let me know if this is wrong).

So I tried to get the hazards all on pictures as best as I could. I did what I could so I could try to analyze them, if I missed any and anyone can get them on here let me know.

PLUS if the stairs are out YOU CAN STILL RECOVER!!! The stairs seem to have an end point which if you go to the far edges of ther stage you can recover onto them. Here is a Greninja CPU doing it. So the stairs are annoying, but possibly not a real issue.

To start, let's make sure to note that sometimes Pokemon show up and there is no hazards at all, which is pretty awesome! So sometimes this stage stays incredibly tame.

[collapse= Zekrom Hazard Analysis 1]

[/collapse]

This one is really easy. It consists on an explosion to the right side of the stage. As you can see in the lower right hand corner there is a visual cure before this happens as well, giving you plenty of time to plan and avoid this one. This hazard isn't really a problem for the stage.

It looks like it can do this in the middle of, and on the other side of the stage as well. Since these are so telegraphed and have cues to make them easily avoidable these hazards don't cause any real issues.

I couldn't find video of the explosion Zekrom can make that tilts the stage so I really couldn't test it

SO if anyone out there has a good picture or could explain it to me please do so!

Reshiram hazards while also still telegraphed, are the ones that seem like the most pain in the neck.

[collapse= Reshiram Hazards]

[/collapse]

That fire is really disruptive. Even though it is telegraphed it can end up doing a good bit of damage even if you are knocked into in, and the fire if it hits the middle forces players to just camp it out no matter what. Honestly a good bit of the time you will just be camping with the fire as it can give you very little stage to fight on if the stairs are not present.

So my thoughts on the stage:

This one is tough, but I doubt anyone will play on this seriously in a tournament setting. Even with stage knowledge the hazards from Reshiram are just too disruptive. I think players with stage knowledge here could probably play out the game here fine. I guess the real thing is if the fire and needing to camp through it is comparable to camping out transformations on PS1 (it's certainly shorter).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ LiteralGrill

I conducted my own analysis of the hazards on Unova Pokemon League here although it lacks pictures. (Seriously, good job with those.) Comparing notes may be a good idea.

 

[LiteralGrill]

@ LiteralGrill

I conducted my own analysis of the hazards on Unova Pokemon League here although it lacks pictures. (Seriously, good job with those.) Comparing notes may be a good idea.

You have some good stuff there too. All I had to work with was three youtube videos, I did my best! Definately gotta see if that recovering through the stairs can be replicated.

Also, for those curious. As it stands the subreddit ruleset is looking like this:

Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination/Non-Walled Omega Forms
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

Counterpick:
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Rainbow Road
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Walled Omega Forms

Yes, an even number of starters. Some other TOs have actually tried this with no complaints so far. So, why not try it? We have all the stages that were either everyone was okay with, or were borderline for CP to allow testing to keep going. What do folks think?

 

[Piford]

You have some good stuff there too. All I had to work with was three youtube videos, I did my best! Definately gotta see if that recovering through the stairs can be replicated.

Also, for those curious. As it stands the subreddit ruleset is looking like this:

Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination/Non-Walled Omega Forms
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

Counterpick:
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Rainbow Road
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Walled Omega Forms

Yes, an even number of starters. Some other TOs have actually tried this with no complaints so far. So, why not try it? We have all the stages that were either everyone was okay with, or were borderline for CP to allow testing to keep going. What do folks think?

Is there the same rules regarding striking Omegas as before, or are they premaritally separated.

 

[MaxThunder]

You have some good stuff there too. All I had to work with was three youtube videos, I did my best! Definately gotta see if that recovering through the stairs can be replicated.

Also, for those curious. As it stands the subreddit ruleset is looking like this:

Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination/Non-Walled Omega Forms
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

Counterpick:
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Rainbow Road
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Walled Omega Forms

Yes, an even number of starters. Some other TOs have actually tried this with no complaints so far. So, why not try it? We have all the stages that were either everyone was okay with, or were borderline for CP to allow testing to keep going. What do folks think?

how does striking work with an even number of starters?..

 

[guedes the brawler]

how does striking work with an even number of starters?..

coin flip after 2 bans!

 

[ParanoidDrone]

You have some good stuff there too. All I had to work with was three youtube videos, I did my best! Definately gotta see if that recovering through the stairs can be replicated.

Also, for those curious. As it stands the subreddit ruleset is looking like this:

Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination/Non-Walled Omega Forms
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island

Counterpick:
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Rainbow Road
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Walled Omega Forms

Yes, an even number of starters. Some other TOs have actually tried this with no complaints so far. So, why not try it? We have all the stages that were either everyone was okay with, or were borderline for CP to allow testing to keep going. What do folks think?

I have similar threads on Magicant, Mute City, and Rainbow Road, so take a look at those too if you want. At this point I'm basically picking the ones I feel like until I get bored.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

how does striking work with an even number of starters?..

It doesnt (at least not well).

Also Prism Tower (PT) favors a lot of floaty characters/those with good recoveries (imo), especially given that you recover from the bottom of the stage if you want. It has some cp-like elements.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, like the only reason Pokemon Stadium is a CP in Melee right now as opposed to a starter is that upon creation of the current ruleset, they had 6 starters (FD, BF, FoD, Yoshis, DL, PS) but needed an odd number for striking so they made PS a CP because A) It was the most random of the 6 (PT isn't random per se, but it is quite varied), and B) It had the most CP elements (which PT probably does between it, FD, BD, and YI:B).

tl;dr: Make PT a CP stage as it has CP elements and allows for striking (provided that BF, FD, and YI:B are also starters)

 

[kenniky]

Kinda lazy to go through 16 pages worth of info, why are walled Omegas CP but non-walled Starter?

 

[YeahVeryeah]

advantage for wall clingers/jumpers

 

[LiteralGrill]

Is there the same rules regarding striking Omegas as before, or are they premaritally separated.

As of now unseperated. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but people thought there was a significant enough difference in the stages to warrant the split. I managed to keep around Rainbow Road though which I didn't expect to getr to so I'm taking the compromise.

how does striking work with an even number of starters?..

It doesn't kinda. It's not entirely fair, but some of the other TOs actually tried a tournament with it and didn't get complaints, so we thought it couldn't hurt to keep trying.