Stage Discussion : #3 Yoshi's Island

[Blad01]

#3 : Yoshi's Island​

• Pros :
  +
  
  
• Cons :
  -
  
• Supplementary information :
  *
  
  
• Better against :
  
  
• Better and Worse : --
  
  
• Worst against : --
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :
  

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#2 : Smashville​

• Pros :
  +
  +
  
  
• Cons :
  -
  -
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  *
  
  
  
• Better against :
  
  
  
• Better and Worse :
  
  
• Worst against :
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :
  

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#1 : Battlefield​

• Pros :
  + Nair, Utilt, Bair and Usmash are easier to land, and are great against anyone who falls on a platform above you.
  + Chaingrab to spike are easier since the stage is small
  + Extra overB landing spots
  + Still a good stage for lasers
  
  
• Cons :
  - Opponents can camp on the platforms to avoid the chaingrab
  - Phantasm/laser camping is a little harder because of stage length
  - Some characters benefit more from FD than Falco does
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Phantasm to a side platform to the other
  * You can walljump into Bair (and / or phantasm) from a ledge.
  
  
• Better against : Falco, Toon Link, Link, ROB
  
  
  
• Better and Worse : G&W, Samus
  
  
• Worst against : Marth, MK, D3, Shiek, Wario, Ike, Sheik, DK
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) : Average / Good
  

(the words "Better" / "Worst" refer mostly to FD, since it is the most neutral stage)

So here we are. Let's discuss deeply stages for Falco

 

[Blad01]

In my opinion :

• Pros :
  + Nair is easier to land, and is amazing against characters standing on a platform above you.
  + USmash can actually hit through a platform and even kill.
  + Chaingrab to spike are easier since the stage is small.
  
  
• Cons :
  - You can't really outcamp your opponents
  - Some characters benefit more from FD than Falco does.
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Phantasm to a side platform to the other.
  * You can walljump into Bair (and / or phantasm) from a ledge.
  
  
• Better against : Samus, Falco, Toon Link, Link, ROB.
  
  
  
• Better and Worse :
  
  
• Worst against : DDD (His edgeguard is better than yours, his Utilt is annoying, and you can't outcamp him), Sheik (well, falco pretty much get destroyed by Sheik on BF in my opinion... The only thing that is good for us is that Chaingrab to spike is easier), Luigi, Mario.
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) : Good / Average.
  

 

[syco1337]

Pros:
+you can hit through the 2 platforms with usmash
+bottom section is good for chaingrabbing

Cons:
- harder to camp because of platfroms than a stage like FD or SV
- benefits a lot of characters (marth and MK) more than falco

Better Against: Samus, Diddy, ROB, Fox, Jigglypuff

Worse Against: Marth, MK, D3, Shiek, Wario, Ike

Stage Ranking: Average

the stage is okay for falco but is too benficial for other characters, especially marth and MK

 

[8AngeL8]

[*] Pros :
+ Hiding under platforms stops a lot of broken aerial approaches such as Game and Watch's
+ Platforms allow you to keep someone above you with uptilt, nair and bair for a long time.
+ Platforms give you extra options with Side-b, making it harder for someone to gimp you.


[*] Cons :
- If you get caught above someone on a platform, they can hurt you, badly.
- It's easier for enemies to get around laser spam because of the multiple levels


[*] Supplementary information :
* Just like FD and Smashville, a dair spike followed by edgeguarding/stage spiking with bair is really effective here
*


[*] Better against :
Game and Watch, Sonic, Kirby,


[*] Better and Worse :
Most people. You'll just have to change your style, but it ends up evening out against a lot of the cast.


[*] Worst against :
Meta Knight, Donkey Kong, Snake, Zelda, \


[*] Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) :
Average. It will mess up certain parts of your game, but help others. It's not a bad stage to start with, but it wouldn't be my first choice, either.

 

[8AngeL8]

I wouldn't really say it helps Falco against ROB and fox. If ROB gets you above one of those platforms, you're in a world of hurt. Fox can use the platforms to make the match more vertical, where he can keep up with Falco better.

 

[CELTiiC]

Pros :
+ Up Smash works well, because of being able to go through platform
+ Still have decent amount of room for Chain grab

Cons :
- Harder to use lasers
- Doesn't really benefit Falco all that well

Better against: Sonic, Kirby, Mr. G&W, Link, and Toon Link

Worst against: Ike, Marth, and Metaknight

Stage ranking: Good

 

[OverLade]

# Pros :
+ Snake gets ***** on this stage
+ Falcos jump height and speed makes it easy to **** through even the highest platform
+ Small, so easy to get to the edge for a CG spike
+bair wall kicks <3
+SH nair ***** through platforms
+small horizontally, easier Fsmash kills
# Cons :
-Metaknight
-small so characters with high pressure game ****

# Supplementary information :
* I personally feel extremely comfortable playing on this stage becasue I don't have to worry about having trouble killing my opponent.
* Because of small size, Side B is extremely useful

# Better against :


# Better and Worse :

# Worst against :
Anyone with long range or good pressure game
Marth, Metaknight, DK

# Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) :
Good

 

[8AngeL8]

Why do you say Snake gets *****? It seems to me to be better for him. The platforms are just ripe for uptilts, and he has many options for placing the C4 and throwing 'nades. He can also cover the entire stage in one mortar slide. It's small and cramped enough that a good Snake should be able to stay on you pretty well. The only advantage I can see is that it's easy to gimp him, but on stage it seems he should be doing better than usual...

 

[syco1337]

^correct.
snake so does not get ***** on this stage...
but id still think BF is one of the stages good against ROB because its easy to spike and gimp his recovery, as for fox, i guess your right, but falco ***** fox in almost any stage so...

 

[OverLade]

Why do you say Snake gets *****? It seems to me to be better for him. The platforms are just ripe for uptilts, and he has many options for placing the C4 and throwing 'nades. He can also cover the entire stage in one mortar slide. It's small and cramped enough that a good Snake should be able to stay on you pretty well. The only advantage I can see is that it's easy to gimp him, but on stage it seems he should be doing better than usual...

IMO it's better for 0-deathing snake. You can CG spike, wait for him to C4 recovery (he should be at 90% or so, Predict midair dodges and Bair. By the time he gets back to the stage he's at a percent to kill. This is possible because of how small the stage is. On FD, he can fly over the stage, which gives him more options to land. Same with smashville.

 

[Sethlon]

*wanders in*

Pros:
+Nair, uptilt, bair and upsmash **** anyone who falls on a platform above you.
+From the edge wall jump back air -> overb onto the stage
+extra overB landing spots
+lasers galore. High double lasers will hit opponents on platforms, and running off platform lasers set up nicely.

Cons:
--Opponents can camp on the platforms to avoid the chain ****
-overB/laser camping is a little harder because of stage length

Better against: G&W, toon link

Worse against: Marth, Samus (upBs are hard to punish with them landing on the top platform)

Stage rank: Good to average.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You can hit through the platforms, CG isn't hurt here, pretty average, don't play Marth here, he is too good here. Snake is good here too, as is MK (WTF he's good everywhere).

 

[Hype]

Phantasm is really good on this stage. It gets people on the platforms which creates easy follow ups.

 

[Yojimbo]

Pros :
- The phantasm does wonders here. The stage is just short enough to maximize the IAP's potential for spacing and surprise attacks.
- Upsmash goes through platforms, as does utilt if you like it enough to use it. Also, ceiling isn't too high for the upsmash works reliably for KOs.
- Good stage to CG dair spike on certain characters, at least for me more reliably than others.

Cons :
- Other characters with better upsmashes and tilts will take advantage and juggle Falco.
- Lasers don't seem to work as well since platforms can be used to approach without worry of them.

Better against: Toon Link, Game and Watch

Worst against: Ike, Marth, Snake, Lucario

Stage ranking: Good

 

[XxBlackxX]

pros
+phantasm is pretty good here
+cg>spike works ok here
+usmash and utilt goes through platforms

cons
-harder to camp
-characters with swords like marth, ike, and mk **** here

better against: samus, GnW, ROB
worst against: Ike, Marth, MK

Stage ranking: average-good

 

[TechnoMonster]

Samus has the advantage over Falco on Battlefield due to edgecamping and juggle abuse due to platforms and her sick up-B. Under no circumstances should you CP battlefield against Tudor or a Samus that is good on the stage.

 

[Blad01]

First post edited with the summary

First Post Edited With #2 Stage Discussion : Smashville​

 

[8AngeL8]

Smashville:


[*] Pros :
+ Not much to get in the way of your lasers.
+ The platform gets you closer to the side sometimes, making it easier for Falco to kill, which he sometimes has trouble with.
+ The platform sometimes gets you out of a situation in which you'd be gimped.
+ Great edges for spikes, edgeguards, and stage-spikes.


[*] Cons :
- Kinda small, makes it hard to fight characters like DK or MK
- The platforms can screw up your vertical combos
-

[*] Supplementary information :
*Falco can pop the balloon faster than anyone with his lasers!



[*] Better against :
Characters who want to get into camp battles, such as Pit, Olimar, or Toon Link


[*] Better and Worse :
Versatile characters, like Zero Suit, Snake, or Samus, ROB


[*] Worst against :
Donkey Kong, Meta Knight, DDD,


[*] Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :

Good

 

[syco1337]

SV:

+good camping game, its a flat stage except for the moving platform
+cg>spike is again a great option here
+edgeguarding with bair is great, so is double-spiking characters that wont die with 1 spike

-snake gets such a huge advantage here
-not as long as FD

Supplementary
~the moving platform helps prevent you from being gimped sometimes, but because it is moving and therefore random, it could also help your opponent

better against: Tlink, Pit, Olimar, ROB, Link
better or worse: marth, ike, zamus
worst against: MK, DK, D3, ICs, Snake

 

[Vlade]

Smashville is one of the better neutral stages for falco. Smaller than FD, but there aren't any lips that may gimp your firebird. In addition to this there is a small moving platform, which may help or hinder your play, depending on what character the opponent is using.

Falco's laser game is great on this stage, since it is flat and doesn't have any obstacles that hinder them. If an opponent is on the platform, it is still easy to hit them with lasers. Lasers should have no trouble being fired here. Falco's chaingrab is also fine here - nice and flat so it can't be interrupted as long as you perform it correctly. IAP is also good here, although since it is a smaller stage you may want to be cautious of the distance your phantasm goes.

Without the lips of FD, and the shorter length of the stage, Falco should find it easier to set up and edgeguard certain opponents, without worrying about his recovery as much. The ceiling I think is also a bit lower than FD, so usmashing will kill light characters at earlier %s (not sure exactly what %).

But I think that the length of this stage is a minus for falco. He'll be rushed down quicker if he is camping, as characters will have less space needed to approach.

Falco should choose this stage against characters like Olimar and Pit, although JJapes may be a better choice against them. He can outcamp them on this stage though and it can be more difficult to grab on JJapes.

IMO this is snake's best neutral stage. Avoid versing him here at all costs since he'll just place a C4 on the moving platform. If you do verse him here, just be cautious. The lower ceiling doesn't help you against snake's utilt either. MK will rush you down here thanks to the shorter length, and will have a very easy time edgeguarding.

 

[Denzi]

Smashville:


[*] Pros :
+ Not much to get in the way of your lasers.
+ The platform gets you closer to the side sometimes, making it easier for Falco to kill, which he sometimes has trouble with.
+ The platform sometimes gets you out of a situation in which you'd be gimped.
+ Great edges for spikes, edgeguards, and stage-spikes.
+Walljump (right?)

[*] Cons :
- Kinda small, makes it hard to fight characters like DK or MK
- The platforms can screw up your vertical combos (especially saving opponents and throwing off spike timing)
- Platform makes lasers easier to avoid
- Shorter stage makes Phantasm more dangerous to use

[*] Supplementary information :
*Falco can pop the balloon faster than anyone with his lasers! yay!!



[*] Better against :
Characters who want to get into camp battles, such as Pit, Olimar, or Toon Link


[*] Better and Worse :
Versatile characters, like Zero Suit, Snake, or Samus, ROB


[*] Worst against :
Donkey Kong, Meta Knight, DDD, Snake


[*] Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :

Good

I added some things, they're in green.

 

[XxBlackxX]

^ i dont really see how the plaform throws off spike timing. screwing up combos, yes, screw up timing, no.

 

[Denzi]

^ i dont really see how the plaform throws off spike timing. screwing up combos, yes, screw up timing, no.

They are offstage going for the ledge. You jump off to spike them. They realize what is about to happen and instead jump/up-B onto the platform. You miss the spike.

 

[XxBlackxX]

^ in that case, ditch the spike when you see them jump and bair. or if they are still rising and not quite on the platform yet, do a rising dair on your 2nd jump and firebird onto the platform after (you should only use 1 jump to do the spike anyways)

 

[Denzi]

^ in that case, ditch the spike when you see them jump and bair. or if they are still rising and not quite on the platform yet, do a rising dair on your 2nd jump and firebird onto the platform after (you should only use 1 jump to do the spike anyways)

Number of jumps used to spike relies on how far away from the stage they are (remember that the platform goes past the stage). Going off this, you may not always have your seccond jump to chase them with.

Hitting them before/while they land from up-B will rack up damage, but won't always kill like a below/level to stage spike pretty much would have.

As for hitting them before they reach the platform (assuming you do have your seccond jump) it would be difficult to do (especially on characters with a quick up-B such as Marth) because you have to finish your first Dair, jump above them (while they are also moving upwards), and spike them without getting hit by their up-B.

TL;DR version:
The platform on Smashville messes with edge game.

 

[XxBlackxX]

^ i know a bair most likely wont kill them, but on most top-tier characters, a spike wouldnt either (MK, snakes, ROB, almost all of them). marth is one of the few exceptions actually.
but in the end, i gotta agree with the platform messing up edge games, but hey, its random, and you never know when it will save you.

 

[Denzi]

The platform isn't as random as people keep saying though. It slowly moves back and forth in a steady pattern across the stage. I know your thinking "It's random whether it's there or not while the opponent is offstage", but a smart player has to recognize the pattern and try to use it to his advantage.

 

[8AngeL8]

Good additions to my post, Denzi, I agree on all points.

While the platform does follow a predictable pattern, it doesn't really help his edge game in any way, and it's capable of getting in the way.

It DOES help his recovery, though, so I'm kinda neutral on it as a whole.

 

[Blad01]

Well, can you really walljump on Smashville ? ôO

[I change the stage discussion tomorrow guys]

 

[XxBlackxX]

Well, can you really walljump on Smashville ? ôO

[I change the stage discussion tomorrow guys]

ok. (hopes we do Jungle Japes next x]) and yes i think you can.

 

[Carbonated]

Well, can you really walljump on Smashville ? ôO

[I change the stage discussion tomorrow guys]

Yes. On that little wall/lip thing. Kind of pointless but it's there.

 

[wangston]

Smashville has the balloons. Use a weak attack to refresh your other attacks to pop.

 

[Keitaro]

ok. (hopes we do Jungle Japes next x]) and yes i think you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU

No need for Jungles Japes discussion with this

 

[Carbonated]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU

No need for Jungles Japes discussion with this

Epic ****.

 

[WaterTails]

I might as well contribute something to Smashville. You can phantasm safely on, like, half of the stage, from the sets of lights onward. In fact if you shorthop it, and don't cancel it, you should land on the edge.

Also, I've kind of been doing this for my own good, trying to find safe phantasm spots on each stage, so just give some feedback if you want me to post on each stage!

 

[Blad01]

Discussion #3 : Yoshi's Island !​

 

[8AngeL8]

Yoshi's island is almost always one of my neutral strikes if I'm playing Falco. The slanted floor gives some people the ability to crouch under lasers when they couldn't before and screws up your chaingrabs.

The platform also takes up almost the whole level, which makes it easier for opponents to get around lasers. Falco has some sick vertical combos, and they're greatly diminished by the platform.

The edges are a little weird, too. Sometimes I'll think I'm going to Side-B to the edge, and because of the slant I end up on stage and eat a smash.

The only positive I really see is that the walls on the sides allow Falco to wall jump and help his vertical recovery by quite a bit. Other than that, I see little reason for Falco to want to play here.

 

[Vlade]

This has to be my least favourite neutral stage. And like Angel said, I often end up playing on it as my starter. It's either this or smashville.

The slopes on the stage are just there to hinder you style, they can mess up your lasers, and make you screw up SHDL if you're going foward.

The platform doesn't help either, although if it's flat it's perfect for reverse boost pivot chaingrab if you can get it.

Try not to verse Metaknight here, I would rather verse him on smashville than yoshi's island. If you try and laser down his tornado, the chances are it won't hit because of the tilted platform in the middle of the stage.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Like those two said, I don't really like this stage for Falco much either. The slopes on the stage can do two things : mess up the CG or making you miss the lasers, both of which are bad. Other than that, I don't have as much problems that the platform as some do, though if they are higher it would be alot better, as it does sometimes screw with my aerial "combos". Pretty good place to edge guard for me. As Angel said, you can walljump here.

To sum it up, FD>SV>>>YI, imo

 

[§witch]

Ugh, I hate this stage as falco. The slopes are just a pain in my ***. Messes up SHL's and IAP's.