Stuff About Puff

[Massive]

if you're grounded and falco is lasering and you stay grounded youre doing it wrong. but by all means persist, all it does is make my life easier.

Cool story bro.

So, is it impossible to avoid the followup once you've been "flipped"?

If you've been flipped, you are vulnerable until the flip animation ends.

Most times when I end up making the opponent flip I end up landing too far away to rest. It's still usually a free smash or grab though.

 

[idea]

the first thing i learned about the falco matchup, that one time when blunted object visited toronto, was that staying on the ground is BAD and staying in the air is GOOD.

i see other jiggs players crouching under falco's lasers and making that work, but personally, ^ has always made so much more sense. also try to stay above his head if possible.

furthermore i find falling upair works better than uptilt in general. i think it's 'cause he's heavyish. and since aerials make more sense when you're in the air already...

[[Vman]]

oh god, that looks horrifying...you move away, jiggs can space bairs...try to attack, you trade with bair...shield, now you're trapped in a ****ing egg =/

no wonder you rolled a lot, what the hell else do you do out of that egg? so...try not to shield very much.

stuff that looked like it was working
- crouch canceling to things
- that jump away and quick turnaround nair thing
- eggs from a distance
- pressuring him once you've hit him once

basically don't let jiggs establish spacing on you, and be aggressive once you get past that spacing (i.e. when jiggs misspaces something). i guess that describes jiggs vs. a lot of characters...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Watch the combo counter when you watch that vid. about 1/3 of them don't combo, but i think thats for the purpose of showing the percents it works at. Thread should explain the rest (pun).

He has percents listed in the thread. It's more to show how they should look when getting flipped (I think).

Crouching lasers to make him shoot them super low and then jumping over them doesn't sound horrible. I do that with Sheik a lot and Puff has a lower duck and more aerial mobility so I don't see how that wouldn't work if you timed it decently.

Competing directly with Falco's ground game is probably suicide, though.

 

[V3ctorMan]

So, is it impossible to avoid the followup once you've been "flipped"?



I am rather ashamed to say that I saw Eggstinction for the first time on Monday. Your Yoshi...*****.

Haha, thanks man, well watching eggstinction late, is better than not watching it isn't it? ^^ thanks again <3

the first thing i learned about the falco matchup, that one time when blunted object visited toronto, was that staying on the ground is BAD and staying in the air is GOOD.

i see other jiggs players crouching under falco's lasers and making that work, but personally, ^ has always made so much more sense. also try to stay above his head if possible.

furthermore i find falling upair works better than uptilt in general. i think it's 'cause he's heavyish. and since aerials make more sense when you're in the air already...

[[Vman]]

oh god, that looks horrifying...you move away, jiggs can space bairs...try to attack, you trade with bair...shield, now you're trapped in a ****ing egg =/

no wonder you rolled a lot, what the hell else do you do out of that egg? so...try not to shield very much.

stuff that looked like it was working
- crouch canceling to things
- that jump away and quick turnaround nair thing
- eggs from a distance
- pressuring him once you've hit him once

basically don't let jiggs establish spacing on you, and be aggressive once you get past that spacing (i.e. when jiggs misspaces something). i guess that describes jiggs vs. a lot of characters...

Haha, yeah, i'm a try and practice more, vs puffs, tho i've no idea where i'll get it from... but thanks, I hope i'll be further ready next time.. thx again ^^

 

[crush]

uhmm... guise?

 

[hungrybox]

Might as well try this...

Any tips on beating Bombs-Away* YL?



*Armada's style

PM Me if you have any ideas...there might be Swedish Spies in this thread

 

[Strong Badam]

use any other character

 

[Stevo]

^ that

 

[ShroudedOne]

Might as well try this...

Any tips on beating Bombs-Away* YL?



*Armada's style

PM Me if you have any ideas...there might be Swedish Spies in this thread

CP Yoshi's Story. Don't let him camp you.

 

[crush]

CP Yoshi's Story. Don't let him camp you.

CP'ing fod would be waaaaay better.

 

[ShroudedOne]

CP'ing fod would be waaaaay better.

Actually, yeah. I agree with this. YL gets his kills off the top, and Puff has to get them off the sides, mainly. But we agree that a smaller stage is good.

 

[crush]

Actually, yeah. I agree with this. YL gets his kills off the top, and Puff has to get them off the sides, mainly. But we agree that a smaller stage is good.

fod>fd>story>battlefield>dream land>stadium

thats what it seems like. maybe dream land is better than battlefield but idk

 

[Rob_Gambino]

V-man, main critique is too much shield; seemed to be a good percentage of his punishes. Trading can suck against jiggs, especially when you start to get behind. Offensive f-airs to punish jiggs landing and defensive f-airs to bait and punish jigg's b-air spacing are good combo starters/kill setups without taking damage. Egg throw can really rack up damage on jiggs if coming in fairly high. How hard is it for jiggs to punish ECE? Perhaps try that a lil more; it was definitely effective during the situations you used it. Problem is jiggs can try and bait those moves as well, his b-air is quite a bit harder to punish than your f-air and egg throw.

Something maybe to look into is the effectiveness of neutral b against jiggs in the air. It might get *****, and I know it doesn't do very good damage. It'd be pretty cool if it shutdown b-air as you're falling from above or something.

Crouch cancelling can be difficult against jiggs; I'm not quite sure about range and speed of moves like u-smash/u-air/nair. The typical d-smash/d-tilt punishments back when I played cuz they'd just jump right after they b-air yoshi's big nose.

When you're winning, I'd say keep doing that djc n-air/whatever to interrupt his aerials. Jiggs is a lot lighter than yoshi, give you some damage with potential edgeguards and space.

I'm sure you know all this stuff, and I can tell you're miles above me. Hopefully I said something useful that could spark your brilliant mind and game.

 

[idea]

imo...

fd>yoshi's>fod>whatever

hungrybox dying off the top wasn't as much of a problem of him not being able to get anywhere near armada. and fd has no platforms at all so his camping is much worse...

but fod has a high top platform and that seems like one of the biggest problems in that matchup.

personally i'd go yoshi's anyway.

 

[crush]

God has a higher ceiling and young link has a way harder time camping on it compared to yoshis story

 

[genkaku]

It looks like the biggest problem with the MU is that it puts a crapton of stress on the puff because while we have to re-invent our whole method of thinking, all the YL has to do is keep camping. We probably have all the tools, but need more experience to have a consistent handle on things. My guess is that with that experience puff can come out with the better end of the MU.

Also, I think the goal of my smash career will be to learn to powershield>rest everything.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Also, I think the goal of my smash career will be to learn to powershield>rest everything.

I think I've decided to go to MvC now. Thanks.

 

[crush]

uhmm .. guise?

 

[username12345678]

Crush banned? a travesty.



Edit: how do you guys feel about yoshis,brinstar and kongo 64 in the samus matchup? or just floaties in general?

 

[pkmntrainerRed]

so ive been watching matches on youtube... and wow, all the immense butt DEVASTATION puff causes is hilarious.
Why do people hate Puff so much? Because they think she's is a joke character and shouldn't be good at all? because they're too bad to figure out how to play her?

 

[idea]

so ive been watching matches on youtube... and wow, all the immense butt DEVASTATION puff causes is hilarious.
Why do people hate Puff so much? Because they think she's is a joke character and shouldn't be good at all? because they're too bad to figure out how to play her?

it's the perceived ratio of required skill to power. i think rest bothers people the most, for that reason. all fox has to do is miss an l-cancel on the front of jiggs's shield and he's probably dead.

you can just do so much with jiggs while knowing so little. and like, even though fox jiggs is so obviously in fox's favour, even though that's a hard matchup for jiggs, she can still kill him off of his slightest error with relatively few button inputs. you can see how that would be frustrating, even for someone who ends up winning the match.

also it's annoying how you can't combo her...if you main fox, say, combos and edgeguarding are going to be a big part of your skill at this game, and you can't use either of those against jiggs very much. (except for weak nair to upsmash =/)

 

[pkmntrainerRed]

Ah. Yeah I'm 'banned' from using Jigglypuff against my friends because they don't know how to avoid Rest they'll just yell at me 'oh yeah, that's real cool. You're awesome." lol it's not my fault you left yourself open!

I see people acting like Jigglypuff is broken with 100-0 matchups against everyone, that she's the Metaknight of Melee... it's just disappointing to see a character so hated. Yeah I see how she's annoying to play, though. At the same time, Fox and Falco and the other really fast characters are just as annoying.

 

[KirbyKaze]

She's actually not that good if you write her out on paper. She's got a bunch of shortcomings. She's kind of slow. Clunky pressure. Mediocre ground game. Losing to Fox sucks, close MU with ICs, troublesome MU with YLink, Doc can be annoying, etc.

The thing about her, is that despite her flaws she kind of has a way of attacking those issues indirectly; her design checks the endurance / consistency of the other player. Exhausts them as a way of winning. Preys on stuff like impatience and frustration. Kind of like a low tier ('cuz most low tier players are fucking fake ass bitches). But unlike a low tier her anti-anti-cheese game is actually respectable ('cuz she actually can win by, like, hitting you a bunch and stuff).

Her resistance to combos and whatever also has an effect of slowing the game down for a lot of characters (basically everyone except Fox [kind of] and Falco [kind of]). It can be difficult to really get the ball rolling against her, like Marth can vs Fox or whoever. Toss in that you can be OHKO'd for a mistake and that playing with momentum without messing up can be really difficult, and you have no reason to really build it... ever. Which is lame.

Wobbling Ice Climbers are dumber though.

 

[choknater]

young link vs puff is SO FREE. lol

not saying this because of armada, armada just affirmed it for me. ylink is slowly becoming my main lol. (tired of being defensive in melee so i use him way more than ic's. shoutouts to being aggressive with ylink and using spaced fairs)

 

[Stevo]

shoutouts to the kokiri

 

[Tekk]

Okay so I went 9th at BEASTII, pretty good for my first big european tournament I guess.

I played Armada's YL in crew battles.
...Damn.

Hack also beat me with YL in R1 pools (he was Armada's training buddy for puff).

 

[ShroudedOne]

Okay so I went 9th at BEASTII, pretty good for my first big european tournament I guess.

I played Armada's YL in crew battles.
...Damn.

Hack also beat me with YL in R1 pools (he was Armada's training buddy for puff).

Oh. I thought Armada only went Ylink against Hbox's Puff.

 

[choknater]

haha in tournament yes

but hack is the one he played with in order to learn the yl vs puff matchup

 

[ShroudedOne]

haha in tournament yes

but hack is the one he played with in order to learn the yl vs puff matchup

I see. In the back of my mind, I wonder why he didn't just learn the Puff matchup as Peach. Save us all the agony of 8 minute matches.

 

[choknater]

haha from what i know, he did it out of his hatred for puff. he hates her so much he WANTS to time her out

from my own experience, yl vs puff is even easier than peach vs puff

 

[ShroudedOne]

haha from what i know, he did it out of his hatred for puff. he hates her so much he WANTS to time her out

from my own experience, yl vs puff is even easier than peach vs puff

I don't have any Puff experience, but I know from watching vids and reading that even though it's pretty even, it's a lot harder for Peach than it is for Puff. So I understand that. I always forget that Armada did well at G1 cause he was fighting Mango, not Puff.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

How does puff win the YL matchup?

 

[mers]

I'm not sure anyone knows 100%, but I assume it's based around not getting camped. To that end, you're gonna want to be close enough to YL to punish any of his projectiles. Once you get there, don't let him get away. Keep him cornered, and just abuse the fact that without projectiles, Puff destroys YL.

Specifics are gonna have to come from someone more experienced than me.

 

[genkaku]

The entire scenario with Armada's YL seems odd to me.
Why is Armada getting praise for deciding to out-gay Hbox (who doesn't even play that gay to begin with) 'cause he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to just buckle down and get better like PP did?
Is the bias against puff really that deep-rooted?

 

[username12345678]

Is the bias against puff really that deep-rooted?

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

You can call both of those techniques gay, but I feel they're legit. Armada beat hbox, and hbox will just have to figure out a different strategy and maybe a different character

 

[ShroudedOne]

The entire scenario with Armada's YL seems odd to me.
Why is Armada getting praise for deciding to out-gay Hbox (who doesn't even play that gay to begin with) 'cause he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to just buckle down and get better like PP did?
Is the bias against puff really that deep-rooted?

Armada got praise after P5. I don't know if he's getting praise now. To be honest, Genesis 2 was...hard to watch. I don't blame him for hating Puff, but time outs are a little extreme. In any case, I don't think either of them play "gay," really, it's just a style that no one likes, and Hbox will have to do something about it.

I have friends who hate Armada after G2. That's a little extreme too, but I suppose I understand, kind of.

 

[Tekk]

People are so dumb.
Just because one's playstyle isn't flashy doesn't mean it's not interresting to watch.
Learn some about spacing, brainless spacies.

 

[ShroudedOne]

People are so dumb.
Just because one's playstyle isn't flashy doesn't mean it's not interresting to watch.
Learn some about spacing, brainless spacies.

Though I agree with you mostly (you're kind of lumping spacie mains unfairly), Pound 4 was not that exciting to watch the second time around. =P

 

[Tekk]

I said spacies only for the pun actually lol.