Stuff About Puff

[-LzR-]

I hate the Luigi matchup. It's me and one other player who are Brawlers who also started to play Melee, but he picked up Luigi. He is damn good, way better than be and the MU is gay.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I would think that bair puts Luigi in his place pretty soundly...but I can't be sure, cause I've never fought one.

 

[idea]

lol i suck at that matchup. i think the trick is to block his wavedash approach with bair, and don't try to beat him in the air so much, 'cause he actually has good aerial priority. but if you put some distance between you and short hop bair, it's hard for him to get close to you, right? 'cause then he has to wavedash through all that range.

and i hear crouching is good too. probably the same reason.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't know if I suck at the MU or not, but it's the most boring MU I have faced so far. At least Puff dittos gave some good laughs =/

 

[RyeJew]

So there's like virtually no videos on puff vs falco online. There's this falco I can beat on small stages, but I find it near impossible to get in on dream land or final destination cuz of lasers and stuff. Any advice on getting in?

 

[Oskar]

^Uh, there are tons Dr Peepee vs. HungryBox sets up on YT. Might wanna check those out.

I got 5th at a local last weekend, losing to two Fox players back to back with both sets going to Game5. Probably gonna post them here for critiquing when they get uploaded. I could definitely use some advice.

 

[-LzR-]

Today I realized how awesome dashdancing is. It took me from close matches to 2 or 3 stocks.

 

[WIDL]

There's this Marth that totally ***** my Jiggs. Best I've ever done is getting him down to 1 stock 50% or something. Usually I get two or three stocks. He's Norway's best player (DJ Black), but still, I feel I could do better vs. his Marth with Puff. He is very technical and his spacing is pretty much incredible. Basically he pulls off grab->f-throw->wavedash->f-smash very often. It messes me up a lot. Sometimes he even gets the grabs when I'm crouching. I haven't played Jiggs for more than two months probably, but during those two months I have had a massive improvement.

Uhm. How to fight Marth in general?

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

lol i suck at that matchup. i think the trick is to block his wavedash approach with bair, and don't try to beat him in the air so much, 'cause he actually has good aerial priority. but if you put some distance between you and short hop bair, it's hard for him to get close to you, right? 'cause then he has to wavedash through all that range.

and i hear crouching is good too. probably the same reason.

Yeah dude, he's a damn good luigi. I think I need to just mix up my bairs more. I can't really block his wd cause he's so fast at it OOS. He'll stay in shield til I throw a bair and then bam he's there right away. wding oos and back into it is the best part of his game. The air MU part is good though, Ill make sure I space so I don't get hit by his nair after I bair..

I don't know if I suck at the MU or not, but it's the most boring MU I have faced so far. At least Puff dittos gave some good laughs =/

Its not boring for me lol lots of crazy stuff happens. I just get owned for the most part.

So there's like virtually no videos on puff vs falco online. There's this falco I can beat on small stages, but I find it near impossible to get in on dream land or final destination cuz of lasers and stuff. Any advice on getting in?

learn to wd oos and back into shield with your eyes closed. But you can approach by jumping even on those stages..

There's this Marth that totally ***** my Jiggs. Best I've ever done is getting him down to 1 stock 50% or something. Usually I get two or three stocks. He's Norway's best player (DJ Black), but still, I feel I could do better vs. his Marth with Puff. He is very technical and his spacing is pretty much incredible. Basically he pulls off grab->f-throw->wavedash->f-smash very often. It messes me up a lot. Sometimes he even gets the grabs when I'm crouching. I haven't played Jiggs for more than two months probably, but during those two months I have had a massive improvement.

Uhm. How to fight Marth in general?

good question. beats me.. I tend to air dodge when I get f-thrown. Try to stay exactly horizontal with him, don't get fair'd, focus on spacing.. When you do get inside tipper range, you have the upper hand by a bit so make sure it counts.. You're probably getting grabbed from his dash grab. If he grabs a lot, learn to predict when he's gonna grab and throw a fsmash or wd back fsmash. If he's got you close and in shield, you could try the spot-dodge on reaction to rest..

 

[ShroudedOne]

Personally, I feel like you kinda have to WD dance around Marth, just outside of his tipper range. Get him to throw out a move, and then move in with bair. And then just keep hitting him (fair also works for combos, I think). He can keep her out fairly well if he knows the MU, so you have to be patient.

Marth's f-throw always confuses me. Darc says to just DI down, I believe, so that's probably best.

 

[Tekk]

Glad to see more and more puffs in Europe.
If any of you needs my help on anything puff-related, please add me on msn (penguinsarebroken@live.fr)

 

[-LzR-]

I'm gonna bother you to death Tekk.

 

[Massive]

There's this Marth that totally ***** my Jiggs. Best I've ever done is getting him down to 1 stock 50% or something. Usually I get two or three stocks. He's Norway's best player (DJ Black), but still, I feel I could do better vs. his Marth with Puff. He is very technical and his spacing is pretty much incredible. Basically he pulls off grab->f-throw->wavedash->f-smash very often. It messes me up a lot. Sometimes he even gets the grabs when I'm crouching. I haven't played Jiggs for more than two months probably, but during those two months I have had a massive improvement.

Uhm. How to fight Marth in general?

If he's tippering you when you fully DI away out of fthrow, DI towards him on Fthrow, cut your losses and take a non-tippered fsmash. Non-tippered fsmashes don't kill jiggs for a long, long time with proper DI.

Additionally, ducking under marth's grabs ruins his day. If he is in the habit of JC grabbing at all, you are golden because he can't grab you while ducking (dashgrab still can, but you can actually duck under it as well with decent timing). If you're good with rests, its a free rest.

Shielding an Fsmash then wavedashing OoS towards him with pretty much any attack will give him a terrific scare too, turns the pressure around quite well. Actually wavedash OoS is probably as close to Marth Kryptonite as Jiggs can get.

 

[WIDL]

I haven't thought of wavedashing out of shield with jiggs.

I usually do it with Sheik vs. Marth. I'll try it out!

 

[Oskar]

Honestly, playing against Marth is mostly an exercise in patience and attrition in my experience. This holds true for a lot of Puffs matchups, I suppose, but it feels especially pronounced against Marth. The main thing to understand is that, barring poorly DI'd random tippers, he basically can't kill you until well past 150% on most stages. By comparison Puff can mess up Marth more or less from the get-go with all sorts of nasty stuff.

Ducking ***** against him, as Massive mentioned. Not just against grabs, either; you can duck under several of his moves such as utilt and nair and get in a strong punish.

Against Fsmash happy Marths, a fun thing to do which I've recently picked up from watching vids of other Puffs, is to roll towards him when you predict the Fsmash then rest him out of the move's lag. Not really something you can spam a lot but it's hilarious when it works.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSaS1lcTgA0#t=22m41s if you want a video as reference)

But yeah, shield a lot, crouch a lot, don't run into his moves by trying to force openings too much, and you'll probably be fine.

 

[-LzR-]

I gotta try that. Several of the Marths on my level are pretty Fsmashhappy, I think they don't realize how risky that move actually is. I'll have to try to rolling this since I rarely roll at all so it shouldn't be predictable.

 

[idea]

Shield counters fsmash.

(Marth's grab counters shield)

(Crouch counters marth's grab)

But the roll thing is amazing when it works. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be.

 

[ShroudedOne]

It surprises me sometimes how quickly Marth's throw out forward smash. People must not be punishing it hard enough.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Luigi is sort of like Ice Climbers in that he can WD under Puff to start business against simple aerial camping.

I'd honestly probably camp the edge and try to gimp him, going offstage with aerials if necessary to keep him from being able to get under you effectively. His projectile is garbage, his onstage movement is telegraphed, and his jump isn't conducive to pressuring Puff when she's offstage so you can probably drift back. He also seems like someone where systematically covering options during gimp situations is probably not too difficult. Super floaty character + Puff's bair priority + low aerial mobility + terrible horizontal recovery barring luck seems easy enough to exploit.

 

[Tekk]

Oskar, how well are you doing vs Navn ?

 

[stelzig]

But the roll thing is amazing when it works. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be.

Very. Especially when you're at 0% and die from it
It made me miss the l-cancel on the following 3 Dairs too. That rest got to me so much, lol.

You fight so hard for every hit in that matchup and then puff comes in with **** like that... And therefore I agree with Oskar's opinion on how you should play the matchup =L

Edit: There's a vid of him against navn from the same tourney, tekk. It went to game 5 (navn won)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si0VgIrhURs&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Massive]

Against Fsmash happy Marths, a fun thing to do which I've recently picked up from watching vids of other Puffs, is to roll towards him when you predict the Fsmash then rest him out of the move's lag. Not really something you can spam a lot but it's hilarious when it works.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSaS1lcTgA0#t=22m41s if you want a video as reference)

Wow.

THIS IS HILARIOUS.
I have something new to practice on puff after years of stagnation.
Thank you.

 

[idea]

lol i posted about that roll thing in here like a year ago, too bad you didn't see it that time. and i think someone else came up with it independently before then too.

i was all excited 'cause of how hilarious it is. doesn't that just epitomize everything bad everyone says about jigglypuff? this matchup sure is hard, marth and jigglypuff are both being so careful with their spacing, gradually racking up damage and positional advantage, then jigglypuff just up and rolls on top of you and explodes.

 

[Kaizer]

Only huge problem i got against marth is his grab->f-smash. I can't seem to handle the DI, no matter what I do, I'll get hit, often tippered. But yeah, can be a difficult matchup, even though both can combo each other pretty well.

 

[-LzR-]

DI down removes most of his options usually. He won't really risk a simple throw if he cannot tipper out of it since he risks a stock every single time he tries to grab you.

 

[idea]

her crouch isn't that amazing vs. marth...he can still grab a crouching jiggs with dash grab. he just has to overshoot it.

marths who know the matchup probably won't grab unless you're in shield first anyway.

 

[Mahone]

I dunno why no one ever talks about the fact that marth can use his broken *** grab range to jc grab while still being safe from rest... i guess no marths do it or something, but the one i play with does so idk...

 

[FoxLisk]

if marth grabs from that range dont you still have time to sh nair/fair him?

im just sort of guessing but it seems likely.

 

[Keblerelf]

You still have time to fsmash/grab him.

--

so whenever I play my brother's falcon, I sometimes land behind him and start to uptilt his shield. However, he is able to stomp oos and jump OVER my uptilt and hit me. I'm thinking about doing a quick sh uair as a substitute. Does anyone else do that?

I guess I could just delay my uptilt.

I GUESS.

 

[idea]

yeah, delay it. then it's more likely to shield poke. i was just playing vs. a falcon 5 minutes ago and did this more than once.

successive uptilts aren't as safe, since they push them further away and they've had a second to think about what to do.

upair could work but it also might trade. but then...that trade is better for you than falcon. especially at low percent when you can just take the hit and rest him anyway. but if he doesn't stomp then you're vulnerable.

i dunno, i'd probably just wavedash away and bair him after he stomps.

 

[Massive]

DI down removes most of his options usually. He won't really risk a simple throw if he cannot tipper out of it since he risks a stock every single time he tries to grab you.

If you do this Marth can regrab you very easily (most of them don't because they just don't know).

AustinRC did it constantly when he still lived here.

so whenever I play my brother's falcon, I sometimes land behind him and start to uptilt his shield. However, he is able to stomp oos and jump OVER my uptilt and hit me. I'm thinking about doing a quick sh uair as a substitute. Does anyone else do that?

I guess I could just delay my uptilt.

Shorthop Nair is more reliable than delaying your utilt or going for an uair (this was actually just posted in the other thread).
You can get some really nasty shield pressure with bair > uair > SH Nair while behind him in shield and he can't really do much about it.

 

[-LzR-]

A noobMarth and I am playing Melee with usually regrabs me when I do that yes and he has played Melee for 2 weeks.
I prefer that to getting tippered.

 

[Mahone]

I dunno man, i feel like only old school marths regrab... These newschoolers are always looking for dat tipper....

 

[-LzR-]

Well this noobmarth is a Falco main in Brawl so grabs are his specialty
But yeah, thank god no one else in Finland has done the regrabs yet.

@Tekk:
Watched one of your videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZgN1FhU7-0&t=2m3s
Is this only possible if Falco spaces badly?
Also when rest OoS in Melee, do you simply do rest or jump into rest? Which is faster?

 

[username12345678]

Well this noobmarth is a Falco main in Brawl so grabs are his specialty
But yeah, thank god no one else in Finland has done the regrabs yet.

@Tekk:
Watched one of your videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZgN1FhU7-0&t=2m3s
Is this only possible if Falco spaces badly?
Also when rest OoS in Melee, do you simply do rest or jump into rest? Which is faster?

Im pretty sure it works regardless of falcos spacing.
also jump into rest

 

[idea]

Well this noobmarth is a Falco main in Brawl so grabs are his specialty
But yeah, thank god no one else in Finland has done the regrabs yet.

@Tekk:
Watched one of your videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZgN1FhU7-0&t=2m3s
Is this only possible if Falco spaces badly?
Also when rest OoS in Melee, do you simply do rest or jump into rest? Which is faster?

the way shield works in melee, you can't actually do anything immediately out of shield except jump, roll, sidestep, grab, and up-b. so yeah...jump straight up first.

 

[-LzR-]

Ok, I hope I can bait those Falcos to fsmash my shield somehow :D

 

[idea]

that was a fun tournament...i got eliminated by raynex and vanz's young link

FD was way way easier than stadium in that matchup. and stadium isn't even that bad with the platform setup.

 

[ShroudedOne]

...
...

That's kinda low. I mean, Peach/Puff is difficult for Peach, but it shouldn't be that difficult...

 

[Wake]

Vanz used Ylink? Funny. I hope that match was recorded.