Suicide Choke's DI

[HolySerpent]

Which direction should you DI to force your opponent to die first when you Suicide Choke?
I've tried to figure it out myself, but I can't get it to work.
I got myself to die first somehow?? but not the opponent.

 

[Coselm]

I'm pretty sure you always die first.

 

[MojoMan]

You don't need to DI. they just DIE.

 

[Coselm]

You don't need to DI. they just DIE.

I think he is trying to ask if there is a way that you can make your opponent die first when you suicide choke them.

So if you both have 1 life, you win.

But I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter which way you DI, Ganon always dies first.

 

[leafgreen386]

IIrc, if you have a lower numbered player slot, you die at the same time (therefore, if you have less percent, you win, otherwise you lose). If you have a higher numbered player slot, you die first every time. The game will technically go to sudden death if you're in the lower numbered player slot, but tourney matches aren't decided by sudden death.

 

[darthjesus1985]

Every time i Ganoncide with each player having 1 stock, it goes to Sudden Death. I don't think what you are looking for exists.

 

[HolySerpent]

Nvm I read Sliq's guide wrong. I thought it meant I could DI causing Ganon to rotate the opponent under him, but he meant that there is rotation but it's dependent on %.

 

[Sliq]

But I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter which way you DI, Ganon always dies first.

No, you are wrong. Sometimes it is sudden death. It is dependent on controller port. You want the highest port priority (i.e. player 1). If you have a lower port than your opponent, you die first. I believe my guide is wrong about rotating Ganon, and that Overswarm is full of ****.

IIrc, if you have a lower numbered player slot, you die at the same time (therefore, if you have less percent, you win, otherwise you lose). If you have a higher numbered player slot, you die first every time. The game will technically go to sudden death if you're in the lower numbered player slot, but tourney matches aren't decided by sudden death.

No, you are wrong like multiple times. You want control port 1, the highest port. This way it goes to sudden death.

Furthermore, if you and your opponent die at the same time, you are supposed to play out sudden death. This rule is in Melee, and most people haven't changed the rule.

In fact, I had to play a sudden death for the first tournament I went to when I did this.

Next time you post about something, post with, I think, as opposed to claiming things to be fact when they aren't. It misleads people, and makes you look foolish.

 

[HolySerpent]

No offense, but IIRC pretty much is another way of saying I think

 

[:034:]

No offense, but IIRC pretty much is another way of saying I think

No johns.

Spoiler

10char

 

[Sliq]

No offense, but IIRC pretty much is another way of saying I think

I did not read the IIRC at the beginning of your post. I'll apologize on the grounds that it is a personaly shortcoming of mine to ignore what is seemingly gibberish (i.e. an acronym with random capitalization, misspelled words, 1337 speak, paragraphs with no grammar, etc.).

 

[Coselm]

Hm. I hate this controller port nonsense. Ganon is pretty good at SD as a sidenote. I always instantly murder foot if the person is near me, and it has worked every time thus far (all 2 of them)

 

[Sliq]

According to Magus, there appears to be some sort of frame leapfrogging with Ganon's over b, in which case his fall speed alternates who is lower 1 frame at a time. I'm going to test this and see if changing controller ports alters the outcome. I've tested it before, but nothing extensive.

 

[Magus420]

? I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

What I meant was that Ganon is most likely just always very slightly lower than the opponent when going down (the amount varying slightly from character to character).

If the distance they both move downward per frame is greater than the distance that separates them, it allows for sometimes having them both cross the blastline on the same frame, while other times Ganon crosses it 1st while the other is still very slightly above it and would have died on the following frame.

The closer they are together vertically when that char is held the more frequent SD occurs, and being further apart will result in Ganon dying 1st more often against that char up until the point where a char is held further apart than the distance they both travel per frame which would always result in Ganon dying 1st against that character (if there are any like that).

In the case of them both crossing it on the same frame in sudden death mode, then it would indeed go by controller port priority. Otherwise normally, it would result in a loss for Ganon if they both don't cross it on the same frame, and sudden death if they both do cross it on the same frame.

Basically, if able to get either SD or a loss for Ganon against a char on last stock, which one you get in a normal match would be dependant on where in the air it connects vertically with respect to the blastline. Since a few pixels could make the difference between crossing simultaneously or dying first by the time you reach the bottom, it wouldn't be something you have realistic control over in general. However, depending on the character you may have certain percent chances on average to SD or lose against them.

For example, say against Char A who is held closer to Ganon, you get about a 70% chance to go into SD and 30% chance to die first. While against Char B who is held a tiny bit higher than Char A you may have about a 40% chance on average to go into SD and 60% chance to die first.

You may also be able to get more controlled outcomes if able to ensure you connect it at a specific height of the stage, such as ledge hopping and performing it at an exact height. This would depend on the stage and character. If this is indeed how it works and there are no other small factors playing into it, then it may be possible to guarantee a result this way in some situations. Like say if you ledgehop perfectly on (Smashville) and connect a F-B from exactly at the peak of your jump against (Wario) you'll be positioned vertically so that you'll both cross the blastline at the same time or something.

 

[Sliq]

? I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

What I meant was that Ganon is most likely just always very slightly lower than the opponent when going down (the amount varying slightly from character to character).

If the distance they both move downward per frame is greater than the distance that separates them, it allows for sometimes having them both cross the blastline on the same frame, while other times Ganon crosses it 1st while the other is still very slightly above it and would have died on the following frame.

The closer they are together vertically when that char is held the more frequent SD occurs, and being further apart will result in Ganon dying 1st more often against that char up until the point where a char is held further apart than the distance they both travel per frame which would always result in Ganon dying 1st against that character (if there are any like that).

In the case of them both crossing it on the same frame in sudden death mode, then it would indeed go by controller port priority. Otherwise normally, it would result in a loss for Ganon if they both don't cross it on the same frame, and sudden death if they both do cross it on the same frame.

Basically, if able to get either SD or a loss for Ganon against a char on last stock, which one you get in a normal match would be dependant on where in the air it connects vertically with respect to the blastline. Since a few pixels could make the difference between crossing simultaneously or dying first by the time you reach the bottom, it wouldn't be something you have realistic control over in general. However, depending on the character you may have certain percent chances on average to SD or lose against them.

For example, say against Char A who is held closer to Ganon, you get about a 70% chance to go into SD and 30% chance to die first. While against Char B who is held a tiny bit higher than Char A you may have about a 40% chance on average to go into SD and 60% chance to die first.

You may also be able to get more controlled outcomes if able to ensure you connect it at a specific height of the stage, such as ledge hopping and performing it at an exact height. This would depend on the stage and character. If this is indeed how it works and there are no other small factors playing into it, then it may be possible to guarantee a result this way in some situations. Like say if you ledgehop perfectly on (Smashville) and connect a F-B from exactly at the peak of your jump against (Wario) you'll be positioned vertically so that you'll both cross the blastline at the same time or something.

What causes discrepencies in how high Ganon holds them? I'm so lost right now.

 

[Magus420]

Their size/shape and the position they programmed them to be in when held by the move.

 

[Sliq]

Their size/shape and the position they programmed them to be in when held by the move.

So it would be possible to create a list of characters more likely to go into SD as opposed to auto-loss for Ganon? Well if thats the case, I'm all down for figuring that out.

 

[Metal_Dave]

I always thought the only factor was the positioning of both players like if ganon's choke gets them from above it goes into sudden death, and if it's from a lower point it equals ganon dying first.

So my logic is not accurate then? I'm confused pretty much after reading this thread.

 

[Magus420]

So it would be possible to create a list of characters more likely to go into SD as opposed to auto-loss for Ganon? Well if thats the case, I'm all down for figuring that out.

It should, yeah. That's what I meant with the 2nd to last paragraph. To get the most accurate chance you'd need a lot of trials, and be sure to vary the height of where it connects a lot. Then again, I don't know of to what degree it really varies from char to char and am going off Calixto's findings of some being easier than others, but many could be too close to really get a conclusive comparison. There's likely some that are noticeably better than others though.

I don't know if he reaches a top speed when going down or continues to speed up a little while going down, so if they don't it may cause more sudden deaths to occur when there's more space between them and the blastline since they'd be moving farther per frame by moving faster. If they continue to speed up all the way to the bottom it could affect the chances a fair amount.

If you compare rates of a char very unlikely to pull off a tie on a somewhat shallow blastline, and find it's significantly easier to get the tie when you grab them way up in the sky or on a very deep bottomed stage then that would suggest that's the case.

 

[joenm8r]

I imagine the best way to test this would be in training mode on the slowest speed with two people and a capture card so that you can go back and frame by frame the thing. Obviously you'd be looking to see whose status readout changes first.

 

[leafgreen386]

No, you are wrong like multiple times. You want control port 1, the highest port. This way it goes to sudden death.

Furthermore, if you and your opponent die at the same time, you are supposed to play out sudden death. This rule is in Melee, and most people haven't changed the rule.

In fact, I had to play a sudden death for the first tournament I went to when I did this.

Next time you post about something, post with, I think, as opposed to claiming things to be fact when they aren't. It misleads people, and makes you look foolish.

Port 1 is the "lowest numbered" port. Port 4 is the "highest numbered" port. I thought I was eliminating all possible confusion by using the term "numbered," but I guess not. I didn't know that the rules for dying at the same time were different than the rules for when the match hits the timer, so yeah, I was wrong about that.

 

[Darkwolf1923]

What the hell does DI mean?

 

[adumbrodeus]

What the hell does DI mean?

Directional Influence = DI

Basically, hold a direction when getting hit or involved in a move, you influence how the move affects you movement or knockback-wise.

 

[Botkiller2k8]

try it against someone like dedede...then someone like lucario...then someone like g&w or tlink...i think it varys by the size of the enemy to how far down he holds em