Super Smash Bros. and Arcade Sticks

[Big-Cat]

A concern I've had about the future of the series is what will we do about a controller standard since it seems likely that any future Super Smash Bros. game will not be on the Wii. We might have a modified version of the Classic Controller as some sort of replacement for the Gamecube Controller, but I'd like to bring up an alternate control scheme: The Arcade Stick

You might ask: Why should we bother with this?
Well, it's from my experience that your execution tends to be better. Mind you that this only applies to Street Fighter for me at the moment. However, this is Smash so it would more than likely be different.

The upside to this setup is that you can have your fingers and buttons set up so that you never have to move them. Here's a sample set up. Disregard the button labeling on the above picture.

B Y R Z1
A X L Z2

Your thumb would be on A, the button you'll be pressing most of the time anyway. Your special, jump, and shield button would be on the next three fingers on the top row. The pinky would optionally be on the Z1 button. X and L are there as extras that perform the same as Y and R respectively unless you change the purpose. Z1 would be the grab macro by default or you could do A+B to grab like on the Wiimote setups.

With this setup, each primary action has a finger dedicated to it whereas specials, A attacks, and jumping all shared the button. Thus, you don't have that accidental button press as often.

Another upside with this is that switching to another fighting game should be easier than other wise.

There are a few downsides to this, but one has an easy, albeit expensive right now, solution.

The stick in arcade sticks are not designed for analog movement. This creates a problem since tilts, Smashes, walking, slow walking, and running cannot be determined as a result. However, I recently came into something interesting. There are analog arcade sticks.
http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html

Unfortunately, these aren't cheap. The stick itself is about $60 as opposed to a non analog one that might cost half as much. Still, the prices may drop over time. In addition, arcade sticks will cost you a good amount of money. the Tournament Edition SFIV Stick is about $150 dollars, but you can save money like I did and mod a cheaper stick with parts of the same quality.

Another down side is that adjusting to an arcade setup is not easy at first. Those used to C-Sticking will find it difficult to play without it. Doing PK Thunder Cannons is also harder at first because of the larger loop you have to do. However, in the end, I say that it's worth it.

So, guys, what do you think? Would you be okay with this as long as it was an alternate scheme only?

 

[ShinoBee]

Honestly, I don't think much people would.

However, me being a Gamecube/Wiimote/Wii-chuck user, I'll be willing to try playing with an arcade stick. I've actually been wanting to try this for a while now, too. (Though, how would short hopping be executed though?)

 

[kr3wman]

like you short hop on a normal controller?

 

[Big-Cat]

The default jump buttons on the other controllers have never been pressure sensitive. The key difference, according to the Dojo website, is the timing when you release the button. I suppose X in the setup I showed would be one way to do this on the fly. Of course, you can always customize to your liking.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Just like I said in the old thread like this.

Why does someone make this thread every three months?

 

[SmashChu]

I know you think I stalk you to try and troll you, but I'm saying it anyway.

The Smash standard is the Gamecube controller. You know how good players in games like Street Fighter have arcade sticks. Well, Smash players have Gamecube controllers. It's more widely accepted as the controller. No one has played Smash with an arcade stick.

It's more likely that Nintendo would release a controller for the next Smash game (in the same way stores still sell arcade sticks despite few games use them). It would be too hard to just up and jump to a new standard. That's like asking fighting game players (traditional) to drop the arcade stick and use 360 controllers.

 

[Big-Cat]

I was wondering when you were going to show up.

Barely anyone has tried Smash with an arcade stick (there's a guy on SRK trying to set it up for one), but that doesn't mean people wouldn't give it a shot.

As for people having to switch to a 360 controller, I'm willing to bet that people would find some way around it like we how we ended up with Brawl+ and all the other crazy mods out there.

It seems weird to me, that despite Smash being a bestseller, that Nintendo would go ahead and release some kind of special controller just for Smash when a successor to the Classic Controller would more likely become the standard.

This is just a personal question, but have you ever used an arcade stick?

 

[SmashChu]

Barely anyone has tried Smash with an arcade stick (there's a guy on SRK trying to set it up for one), but that doesn't mean people wouldn't give it a shot.

Maybe because they don't want to use an arcade stick. Smash was never designed with an arcade stick in mind where other fighting games were. Also, most sticks are analog, which will only cause confusion for buyers. A controller similar to the Gamecube controller would work better anyway and is more widely accepted.

As for people having to switch to a 360 controller, I'm willing to bet that people would find some way around it like we how we ended up with Brawl+ and all the other crazy mods out there.

You missed the point. The point was that fans of the traditional fighting games who are use to that controller would not be happy to make a dramatic switch.

It seems weird to me, that despite Smash being a bestseller, that Nintendo would go ahead and release some kind of special controller just for Smash when a successor to the Classic Controller would more likely become the standard.

Why not. Arcade sticks are sold despite few games use them.

This is just a personal question, but have you ever used an arcade stick?

Yes

 

[Jimnymebob]

I don't think they'd use arcade sticks if they want to keep Smash Bros. unlike other fighting games. I also don't like them, so probably wouldn't use one anyway.

However, if the next Smash is on a new console, then surely they could just drop the Gamecube controller support, or at least create a new alternative that could work on Gamecube games if the new console has backwards compatibility. Keeping the GC controller would be leaving the Master System controller (which I loved) for use on the Dreamcast. Heck, even if they just remade the thing it'd be OK.

Back on topic, an Arcade Stick would most probably work, and I could see it being better than the other non GC controller alternatives. That being said, would there be a need for the actual stick itself, when you don't really need all the quarter circle button combos like Street Fighter uses? Or would a standard analog stick be better, but keep the layout of the rest of the buttons?

 

[Big-Cat]

Back on topic, an Arcade Stick would most probably work, and I could see it being better than the other non GC controller alternatives. That being said, would there be a need for the actual stick itself, when you don't really need all the quarter circle button combos like Street Fighter uses? Or would a standard analog stick be better, but keep the layout of the rest of the buttons?

When you say "standard analog stick," are we talking about the analog sticks on most controllers? If so, I think it would be fairly difficult to play with a stick that size in comparison to the rest of the controller. As a person with small hands, this would be very difficult and my hand would cramp up quickly.

If not, the biggest obstacle to using Smash with an arcade stick is that most sticks don't have analog control. However, like I said earlier, analog sticks do exist, but they're not cheap.

EDIT: I wonder if a larger scale of the traditional analog stick could work. I guess the wiring might be different which could affect mods.

 

[Jimnymebob]

When you say "standard analog stick," are we talking about the analog sticks on most controllers? If so, I think it would be fairly difficult to play with a stick that size in comparison to the rest of the controller. As a person with small hands, this would be very difficult and my hand would cramp up quickly.

If not, the biggest obstacle to using Smash with an arcade stick is that most sticks don't have analog control. However, like I said earlier, analog sticks do exist, but they're not cheap.

EDIT: I wonder if a larger scale of the traditional analog stick could work. I guess the wiring might be different which could affect mods.

Yeah, I meant having a large analog stick, because the ones on arcade sticks are usually quite stiff and rigid compared to the analog stick on say the Gamecube controller.

 

[Big-Cat]

Maybe because they don't want to use an arcade stick. Smash was never designed with an arcade stick in mind where other fighting games were. Also, most sticks are analog, which will only cause confusion for buyers. A controller similar to the Gamecube controller would work better anyway and is more widely accepted.

How do you know people don't want to use an arcade stick? As shown on SRK which I know you go to now, there are people that want to try it out, but there are current limitations preventing it. The confusion for buyers only applies at least until analog sticks are a standard if it were to ever happen. Assuming Nintendo would make their own, they would more than likely advertise that it's perfect for Smash by putting a Smash design on the to or something. That would probably prevent a lot of the confusion.

You missed the point. The point was that fans of the traditional fighting games who are use to that controller would not be happy to make a dramatic switch.

Even if the switch were to happen, someone would make an arcade stick that conforms to the game's settings.

Why not. Arcade sticks are sold despite few games use them.

Wrong. I can take my SE Arcade Stick and use it for any giving fighting game I have on my 360. I can also use it to play 2D games. In fact, I had my dad try it out when we downloaded the original Defender onto his 360. The sticks are merely an alternate controller. Compared to a 360 controller, it lacks the two analog sticks and that's about it. Any game that does not need those two can last with an arcade stick.

 

[PH33R2590]

*sigh* Arcade sticks on brawl? personally i think that'd be worse than playing with a wiimote sideways...

 

[Big-Cat]

*sigh* Arcade sticks on brawl? personally i think that'd be worse than playing with a wiimote sideways...

Care to explain?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wait a moment, if you have your whole right hand on the buttons, and your left hand controlling the stick, how do you hold it?

I'm just not seeing it, it seems awkward to use at best.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait a moment, if you have your whole right hand on the buttons, and your left hand controlling the stick, how do you hold it?

I'm just not seeing it, it seems awkward to use at best.

You put it on your lap or on a table.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Arcade sticks are huge. You don't hold them. Like Kumo said they are placed on your lap or a table top in front of you.

Are there any Wii arcade sticks that are analog? I didn't even know the wii had a joy sticks at all aside from in Japan. Does anyoneknow if the madcatz sticks are analog? It has the option to be used as the left stick but that doesn't mean it's actually analog. Though I guess that doesn't really matter since it's an xbox 360 and ps3 controller.

 

[GreenFox]

that wouldnt seem right.. smash was never an arcade fighter you could still use this but for me it just wouldnt feel right

 

[SmashChu]

How do you know people don't want to use an arcade stick? As shown on SRK which I know you go to now, there are people that want to try it out, but there are current limitations preventing it. The confusion for buyers only applies at least until analog sticks are a standard if it were to ever happen. Assuming Nintendo would make their own, they would more than likely advertise that it's perfect for Smash by putting a Smash design on the to or something. That would probably prevent a lot of the confusion.

The problem is there is no demand from buyers. Unless the arcade stick was somehow supperior or served a need better, it will not be a standard.

I'm going to make a big post about this in the future, but Smash Bros is a Blue ocean game where Street Fighter and other fighting games are in the Red Ocean. Smash is not competing with other fighting games, so there is no need for an arcade stick. Shoruken is a Street Fighter board, so naturally, they'd try it out. Since most Smash fans aren't fan of traditional fighting games, they have no need for it.

Even if the switch were to happen, someone would make an arcade stick that conforms to the game's settings.

No, the point was that what is SF fans HAD to play with a 360 controller, and only a 360 controller for the rest of time. Thier reaction was the point I was trying to get across.

 

[Big-Cat]

The problem is there is no demand from buyers. Unless the arcade stick was somehow supperior or served a need better, it will not be a standard.

I never said it would be a standard, but an alternative. Get that through your head. I'M NOT FORCING A STANDARD!

I'm going to make a big post about this in the future, but Smash Bros is a Blue ocean game where Street Fighter and other fighting games are in the Red Ocean. Smash is not competing with other fighting games, so there is no need for an arcade stick. Shoruken is a Street Fighter board, so naturally, they'd try it out. Since most Smash fans aren't fan of traditional fighting games, they have no need for it.

I would like to see this post be made. As for SRK supporting it, my point was that there are people who'd be wiling to try it.

By the way, there's a problem with this whole Blue Ocean thing. At some point, that blue ocean will become a red ocean simply because other companies will go where the money is. Thus, it's a never ending cycle if a company seeks only blue oceans. Thus, the company that goes looking for a blue ocean will either have to look somewhere else in a sad attempt at monopoly or attempt to be superior to the competing companies.

No, the point was that what is SF fans HAD to play with a 360 controller, and only a 360 controller for the rest of time. Thier reaction was the point I was trying to get across.

Naturally, they wouldn't like it. Aside from getting rid of a tournament standard, you're getting rid of the best controller for execution. Nonetheless, someone WILL find away to get around the whole thing. It's just like the Wii hacks. Nintendo releases a new security update, but hackers can get back in within two weeks' time.

Arcade sticks are huge. You don't hold them. Like Kumo said they are placed on your lap or a table top in front of you.

Are there any Wii arcade sticks that are analog? I didn't even know the wii had a joy sticks at all aside from in Japan. Does anyoneknow if the madcatz sticks are analog? It has the option to be used as the left stick but that doesn't mean it's actually analog. Though I guess that doesn't really matter since it's an xbox 360 and ps3 controller.

Like I said earlier, I don't think any commercially sold arcade sticks have analog sticks, but parts do exist for them. The Madcatz sticks use the D-Pad based on my experiences. You can't play Banjo-Tooie with it.

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Personally, I find the concept of playing Super Smash Bros with an arcade stick quite interesting. I certainly think many people would enjoy trying it out, including myself.

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Also, you'd short hop by quickly tapping up. And I use 360 controllers AND arcade sticks to play things like SF or Skullgirls