Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Xandercosm]

I have a few reasons.
Over the years, my opinion on the Mario series in general has massively soured.

Why? Are you forgetting the Mario Galaxy series? What about 3D World? Super Mario Maker? Mario's games are generally amazing, Rosalina's Smash incarnation is not.

 

[wedl!!]

Yeah, I too get really angry when grown men don't play video games made for children the way I like

 

[Xandercosm]

Yeah, I too get really angry when grown men don't play video games made for children the way I like

FFS are you really going down this route?

So you think that one must give up their masculinity to play Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Maker? It's people like you who utterly disgust me. I really don't know why this mentality is still clinging to life...

 

[FamilyTeam]

Why? Are you forgetting the Mario Galaxy series? What about 3D World? Super Mario Maker? Mario's games are generally amazing, Rosalina's Smash incarnation is not.

Isn't the Mario Galaxy "series" resumed to just SMG1 and 2? Even then, I liked Mario Galaxy 1 a lot when I played it, but I like to pretend SMG2 isn't a thing. 3D Land and 3D World are games that don't interest me in the slightest, and Super Mario Maker? I'm afraid I already use Lunar Magic.

 

[Xandercosm]

Isn't the Mario Galaxy "series" resumed to just SMG1 and 2? Even then, I liked Mario Galaxy 1 a lot when I played it, but I like to pretend SMG2 isn't a thing. 3D Land and 3D World are games that don't interest me in the slightest, and Super Mario Maker? I'm afraid I already use Lunar Magic.

I guess everyone has their own preferences. It's just surprising to see someone who doesn't enjoy such amazingly crafted games. And, Lunar Magic, is not a a replacement for Super Mario Maker. In fact, it's the other way around.

 

[wedl!!]

It's an exaggeration about how silly it is to be mad over someone like Dabuz.

I could physically care less if you play video games for "kids".

 

[Bowserboy3]

It's an exaggeration about how silly it is to be mad over someone like Dabuz.

I could physically care less if you play video games for "kids".

I find this ironically funny when we are on a specialised board talking about a party fighter game with "kids" characters in it... huh.

Oh hang on, that's right, Brawl isn't a kid's game...

 

[FamilyTeam]

And, Lunar Magic, is not a a replacement for Super Mario Maker. In fact, it's the other way around.

I don't want to get into an argument as to why LM does SMM's job ridiculously better, but basically, you trade off accessibility for a software that is absolutely free in constrast to the absurd price some places charge for SMM, ridiculously more versatile (and of course, it only gets even more versatile if you don't limit yourself to just LM), and can be run on a Windows 98 with a Pentium III no problem instead of requiring a console that's basically a Smash machine to a few of us.

 

[Xandercosm]

I don't want to get into an argument as to why LM does SMM's job ridiculously better, but basically, you trade off accessibility for a software that is absolutely free in constrast to the absurd price some places charge for SMM, ridiculously more versatile (and of course, it only gets even more versatile if you don't limit yourself to just LM), and can be run on a Windows 98 with a Pentium III no problem instead of requiring a console that's basically a Smash machine to a few of us.

I don't want to get into an argument either. However, I am quite interested to hear how LM is better than SMM. I'd also like to point out that all retailers charge the same price for SMM: 60 USD

 

[wedl!!]

Except FamilyTeam is South American so retailers highly vary in price due to the ****ed economies

 

[Xandercosm]

Except FamilyTeam is South American so retailers highly vary in price due to the ****ed economies

Oh. I didn't realize. I thought that Nintendo products weren't even sold in South America anymore...

 

[FamilyTeam]

You ain't gonna see SMM for any less than 80 dollars around here. I've seen it go as far as 90, actually.
And I need to remind you minimum wage is 220 dollars, in my country. Not only is it more expensive, but even if it wasn't, it still would be far harder to get.

Also, the only thing you can really compare SMM with LM is the level editing aspect. LM is more of an overall game editor than a level editor.
Well, stuff you can do with SMW using LM alone is edit up to 503 levels that are 31 screens wide (496 Marios), with about half of them being accessible through the Overworld, 7 different map screens that are fully editable, with the main map being about 6 times larger than the others, complete control of the title screen and control over what is displayed in the credits, editing of all the graphics in the game and the ability to extract or insert graphics to share graphics you created or insert user created ones without overwriting the game's stock graphics.
In the level editor, you can place sprites from the game or user-created sprites (anywhere from 5 to 15 or 20 per screen depending on settings and patches), the ability to change music, again, from all the stock themes to any user-created one, editing memory allocation settings to allow more, less, or different things to be placed on levels, changing level properties using special sprites or flags, expand your game to specific sizes so it can fit more user content, and probably far more I'm forgetting because I haven't used it in ages.
In a sense, you probably can do just as much with SMM as you can with LM, but that's because if you want to make a really nice game, you probably won't be using LM alone. LM works alongside a lot more programs, mostly, sprite, patching, music inserting/editing and memory managing programs.
Even then, I shall remind you LM is free while SMM goes for bloody 90 dollars, here.

Oh. I didn't realize. I thought that Nintendo products weren't even sold in South America anymore...

You're half right. They pulled the plug, here.

 

[my_T]

alright its time i got to the bottom of this. I want a detailed explanation (preferably from multiple ppl) as to why samus is considered bottom tier.

 

[FamilyTeam]

alright its time i got to the bottom of this. I want a detailed explanation (preferably from multiple ppl) as to why samus is considered bottom tier.

Some people have explained her weaknesses a few pages back, you should probably go read those. Some reasons are bad frame data, sluggishness, how her Jab doesn't lead into anything and how wonky her Up Smash is to connect.
Some defend that she atleast isn't Bottom 10, though.

 

[Bowserboy3]

alright its time i got to the bottom of this. I want a detailed explanation (preferably from multiple ppl) as to why samus is considered bottom tier.

*sighs*... I honestly can't be bothered to explain any more. It's not your fault, but after explaining time and time again, it really gets old fast.

But yes, just go back some pages and read up there.

In short, Samus has lots more tools than most of the bottom tiered characters. She has a few problems with her moveset (such as no fantastic get off me options, subpar landing ability, moves that don't work like the norm), but her positives make up for this (great zoning game, fantastic recovery, range, combo ability, shield breaking capability, even a zero to death), but this whole Samus is in the bottom tier cancer needs to die once and for all. These days, Samus is not considered at the bottom any more by a majority of people (I know some people here still think otherwise, but overall as a worldwide community, it seems players realise that Samus is good). Samus is by no means fantastic, top of low mid tier at realistically best, but how people consider her in the bottom tier is still beyond me.

 

[Xandercosm]

alright its time i got to the bottom of this. I want a detailed explanation (preferably from multiple ppl) as to why samus is considered bottom tier.

I'll make a list of weaknesses:

• Bad frame data
• Bad landing options
• Extremely situational combos (mostly she fights with just single hits)
• Awful gimpable recovery with very low range
• Slow speed
• A frame and weight perfect for being comboed to oblivion
• No combo breaker moves, making the issue even worse
• Bad overall mobility
• Some of the most disgustingly bad projectiles in the entire game (literally, the missiles are a ****ing joke)
• Half her moves whiff at the most unfortunate times, making her combo game even less reliable
• Her smash also whiff quite often, unsurprisingly (namely U-smash)
• One of the worst grabs in the entire game
• A throw game that is laughable
• No kill throw

The list just goes ON and ON. I, personally, think she is one of the worst overall characters in the game and probably doesn't even deserve bottom 10. I think she is closer to bottom 5 due to being weak in basically every area important to competitive play. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people such as Bowserboy3 defend her so relentlessly.

 

[Smudges]

I'll make a list of weaknesses:

• Bad frame data
• Bad landing options
• Extremely situational combos (mostly she fights with just single hits)
• Awful gimpable recovery with very low range
• Slow speed
• A frame and weight perfect for being comboed to oblivion
• No combo breaker moves, making the issue even worse
• Bad overall mobility
• Some of the most disgustingly bad projectiles in the entire game (literally, the missiles are a ****ing joke)
• Half her moves whiff at the most unfortunate times, making her combo game even less reliable
• Her smash also whiff quite often, unsurprisingly (namely U-smash)
• One of the worst grabs in the entire game
• A throw game that is laughable
• No kill throw

The list just goes ON and ON. I, personally, think she is one of the worst overall characters in the game and probably doesn't even deserve bottom 10. I think she is closer to bottom 5 due to being weak in basically every area important to competitive play. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people such as Bowserboy3 defend her so relentlessly.

Well. @Feelicks

 

[Xandercosm]

Well. @Feelicks

I'm sure he'll have some witty/enraged reply for me very shortly.

 

[Bowserboy3]

And I will make a non biased/one sided version of Xandercosm 's post

• Frame data is actually mediocre, by no means bad by any stretch of the imagination.
• Limited landing options. Can stall landing with Bombs and also return to the ledge with Zair and recover from there, where she has Zair, Fair and CS getups that are all great.
• Lol about no combos and single hits. Samus has a very versatile combo game, and a zero to death (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9xvoTBngzA), haha!
• Recovery is by no means fast, but has multiple options. Bombs, Zair, and an Up B with a hitbox, that has good reach and a wall jump.
• Samus is not slow. Again, mediocre.
• A frame and weight that means she gets combo'd easier than most character, but not more than characters such as heavier fast fallers, like Fox, Roy, Falcon etc.
• No combo breaker moves is correct. However, I didn't realise all the cast did have one.
• Projectiles are absolutely fine. Missiles are strong damage dealers, that's it. To all who moan about "missiles dont kill", think of it this way. Luigi's fireballs don't kill. They must also be bad then.
• Some of her moves are janky and unusual (special mentions to Dash Attack and Up Smash). Once you realise they have specific uses, they are useful (Dash Attack gets a special mention, which can set up combos up to high percents depending on if you land sweetspots or sourspots)
• Her smashes do not whiff often at all. Some are very matchup based, such as Fsmash missing on Jigglypuff up close. Up Smash whiffs on a somewhat regular basis when used on a grounded opponent. On an aerial opponent is a different story.
• Her grab is very laggy if missed. This is true. At least it has the highest range to somewhat counteract this (however, I would still rather have a quicker grab).
• Throw game is average. Dthrow (and recently discovered, Uthrow) are combo starters, and F/Bthrow give space and set up for edgeguards. Unfortunately none of them are regarded as kill throws (again, useful, but I didn't realise that it was so vital to have one, especially when Samus has many other powerful finishers).

And Xandercosm , I am not a Samus main, but I do know my fair bit about her. It's funny seeing you throw all of these hate comments about Samus, but this begs the question; have you ever played a good Samus? Come on, I've been wanting to play against some of you here for a while now other than @Feelicks, and I feel now would be a great time for me to play you. Let's see if I can show you a thing or two about Samus (or is "lack of matchup knowledge" too much of a problem for you?). Come on, I challenge you. Use a variety of your characters, I'm not fussed. Let me show you what Samus can do. I must say, it really helps change your opinions of a character. Feelicks knows how I used to feel about Dedede, and I must say I have warmed to him a bit now.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll make a list of weaknesses:

• Bad frame data
• Bad landing options
• Extremely situational combos (mostly she fights with just single hits)
• Awful gimpable recovery with very low range
• Slow speed
• A frame and weight perfect for being comboed to oblivion
• No combo breaker moves, making the issue even worse
• Bad overall mobility
• Some of the most disgustingly bad projectiles in the entire game (literally, the missiles are a ****ing joke)
• Half her moves whiff at the most unfortunate times, making her combo game even less reliable
• Her smash also whiff quite often, unsurprisingly (namely U-smash)
• One of the worst grabs in the entire game
• A throw game that is laughable
• No kill throw

The list just goes ON and ON. I, personally, think she is one of the worst overall characters in the game and probably doesn't even deserve bottom 10. I think she is closer to bottom 5 due to being weak in basically every area important to competitive play. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people such as Bowserboy3 defend her so relentlessly.

Time to address all this. Because like... almost all of this are issues that are either false or can be circumvented.

I'm sure he'll have some witty/enraged reply for me very shortly.

I wasn't going to rage, but alright.

Her frame data isn't awful. All her smashes and tilts come out before frame 15, bar her up tilt and grab. Her jab is frame 3 can be jab canceled into a dash grab or any other attack she pleases, and her back air comes out on frame 9 while having some pretty great KOing potential. Up air coming out on frame 5, dealing good damage and being able to combo into itself is some of the reasons why it's such a good move in her toolkit.

Yes, she does somewhat have trouble landing due to her floatiness and is prone to vertical juggles, but she's able to delay her landing with bombs if done carefully. Also, hoo boy. Her combos are not situational. Her being able to down throw into two up airs then Screw Attack does an excess of 40% damage, and it is a true combo. Hell, she just had a true combo discovered out of up throw today that can 0-death characters on Battlefield, and it can be done on ZSS. That's pretty huge.

Her recovery? Gimpable? Seriously? You've just proved to me that you know jack about this character. She has high jumps, can use bombs to lengthen the distance of it, and you're forgetting she has a a very long tether recovery in the form of her zair. Samus isn't easy to edgeguard either. I dare you to fight a good Samus and see how difficult it actually is.

Slow speed? It's 33rd out of the entire cast, that's not slow by any means. Her walk is the same ranking, 33rd, and is even pretty decent too. Samus' weight makes her survivability pretty good horizontally, but her floatiness does indeed make her prone to vertical KOs. It's pretty much exactly why MUs like Meta Knight are so volatile for her. I guess I can give you that one. I disagree on her projectiles being bad, and she doesn't really need them anyway except Charge Shot, because that move is great. Zair is an amazing spacing tool and racks good damage. Super Missile is her only outright bad projectile, I'd argue, and even then they do a good 10%. Homing missiles are a decent harassment tool, and bombs have their uses like I mentioned before such as extending her recovery and delaying landings, and Bomb - > Charge Shot breaks a full shield.

Every heavyweight has to deal with being combo'd to oblivion, and her design has had her up-close game be below average in every Smash game. I don't see your complaint here. I can't name a move in Samus' moveset that outright is dysfunctional, and before you say dash attack, the move just has a late hitbox. None of her smashes whiff, and up smash is designed as an anti-air which is why it doesn't hit grounded opponents. The move does its job just fine.

Her grab game isn't laughable. Up throw and down throw are combo starters, and forward/back throw give Samus a good amount of time to breathe, particularly for recharging Charge Shot.

A kill throw would be nice, but she has so many other options for killing off somebody that it's not particularly a vital need for her.

 

[Wintermelon43]

And I will make a non biased version of Xandercosm

• Frame data is actually mediocre, by no means bad by any stretch of the imagination.
• Limited landing options. Can stall landing with Bombs and also return to the ledge with Zair and recover from there, where she has Zair, Fair and CS getups that are all great.
• Lol about no combos and single hits. Samus has a very versatile combo game, and a zero to death (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9xvoTBngzA), haha!
• Recovery is by no means fast, but has multiple options. Bombs, Zair, and an Up B with a hitbox, that has good reach.
• Samus is not slow. Again, mediocre.
• A frame and weight that means she gets combo'd easier than most character, but not more than characters such as heavier fast fallers, like Fox, Roy, Falcon etc.
• No combo breaker moves is correct. However, I didn't realise all the cast did have one.
• Projectiles are absolutely fine. Missiles are strong damage dealers, that's it. To all who moan about "missiles dont kill", think of it this way. Luigi's fireballs don't kill. They must also be bad then.
• Some of her moves are janky and unusual (special mentions to Dash Attack and Up Smash). Once you realise they have specific uses, they are useful (Dash Attack gets a special mention, which can set up combos up to high percents depending on if you land sweetspots or sourspots)
• Her smashes do not whiff often at all. Some are very matchup based, such as Fsmash missing on Jigglypuff up close. Up Smash whiffs on a somewhat regular basis when used on a grounded opponent. On an aerial opponent is a different story.
• Her grab is very laggy if missed. This is true. At least it has the highest range to somewhat counteract this (however, I would still rather have a quicker grab).
• Throw game is average. Dthrow (and recently discovered, Uthrow) are combo starters, and F/Bthrow give space and set up for edgeguards. Unfortunately none of them are regarded as kill throws (again, useful, but I didn't realise that it was so vital to have one, especially when Samus has many other powerful finishers).

And Xandercosm , I am not a Samus main, but I do know my fair bit about her. It's funny seeing you throw all of these hate comments about Samus, but this begs the question; have you ever played a good Samus? Come on, I've been wanting to play against some of you here for a while now other than @Feelicks, and I feel now would be a great time for me to play you. Let's see if I can show you a thing or two about Samus (or is "lack of matchup knowledge" too much of a problem for you?). Come on, I challenge you. Use a variety of your characters, I'm not fussed. Let me show you what Samus can do.

He DID admit to considering "Everything Wrong with Samus in a little over a minute" as a important Samus video. I think he might be heavily mis-informed though. For one thing, Missiles aren't terrible

Time to address all this. Because like... almost all of this are issues that are either false or can be circumvented.



I wasn't going to rage, but alright.

Her frame data isn't awful. All her smashes and tilts come out before frame 15, bar her up tilt and grab. Her jab is frame 3 can be jab canceled into a dash grab or any other attack she pleases, and her back air comes out on frame 9 while having some pretty great KOing potential. Up air coming out on frame 5, dealing good damage and being able to combo into itself is some of the reasons why it's such a good move in her toolkit.

Yes, she does somewhat have trouble landing due to her floatiness and is prone to vertical juggles, but she's able to delay her landing with bombs if done carefully. Also, hoo boy. Her combos are not situational. Her being able to down throw into two up airs then Screw Attack does an excess of 40% damage, and it is a true combo. Hell, she just had a true combo discovered out of up throw today that can 0-death characters on Battlefield, and it can be done on ZSS. That's pretty huge.

Her recovery? Gimpable? Seriously? You've just proved to me that you know jack about this character. She has high jumps, can use bombs to lengthen the distance of it, and you're forgetting she has a a very long tether recovery in the form of her zair. Samus isn't easy to edgeguard either. I dare you to fight a good Samus and see how difficult it actually is.

Slow speed? It's 33rd out of the entire cast, that's not slow by any means. Her walk is the same ranking, 33rd, and is even pretty decent too. Samus' weight makes her survivability pretty good horizontally, but her floatiness does indeed make her prone to vertical KOs. It's pretty much exactly why MUs like Meta Knight are so volatile for her. I guess I can give you that one. I disagree on her projectiles being bad, and she doesn't really need them anyway except Charge Shot, because that move is great. Zair is an amazing spacing tool and racks good damage. Super Missile is her only outright bad projectile, I'd argue, and even then they do a good 10%. Homing missiles are a decent harassment tool, and bombs have their uses like I mentioned before such as extending her recovery and delaying landings, and Bomb - > Charge Shot breaks a full shield.

Every heavyweight has to deal with being combo'd to oblivion, and her design has had her up-close game be below average in every Smash game. I don't see your complaint here. I can't name a move in Samus' moveset that outright is dysfunctional, and before you say dash attack, the move just has a late hitbox. None of her smashes whiff, and up smash is designed as an anti-air which is why it doesn't hit grounded opponents. The move does its job just fine.

Her grab game isn't laughable. Up throw and down throw are combo starters, and forward/back throw give Samus a good amount of time to breathe, particularly for recharging Charge Shot.

A kill throw would be nice, but she has so many other options for killing off somebody that it's not particularly a vital need for her.

I didn't even know tons of this!

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

Does this mean Xandercosm and Bowserboy3 might be settling it in Smash?
After all their exchanges, I wouldn't mind seeing them play some matches.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Does this mean Xandercosm and Bowserboy3 might be settling it in Smash?
After all their exchanges, I wouldn't mind seeing them play some matches.

Is it gonna be like at school?
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
Or rather...
SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!

 

[Routa]

Missiles (especially dem über custom ones) are more of a bait move rather than pure damaging move. The idea is force your foe into the air and punish that mistake with Fair and get back to neutral. As for edgeguarding they can force your foe to recover low.

I still remember the time when I considering her to be in bottom 5. She is good like really good if you look at her moves, but... It is the combination of the character attributes and her amazing moveset that kills her.

Edit: I can bring the popcorn. Someone got a spare chair?

 

[Deleted member]

Bowserboy3

Can I join for rotations? I wanna show him my Samus too.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bowserboy3

Can I join for rotations? I wanna show him my Samus too.

Oh sure! I'd like to see your Samus.

Of course we have to see if Xandercosm is gonna accept or not, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

 

[Wintermelon43]

And record the matches too

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Oh sure! I'd like to see your Samus.

Of course we have to see if Xandercosm is gonna accept or not, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

Hey I play Samus too!
But I suck really badly.
I got Popcorn!

 

[Wintermelon43]

Xandercosm Vs. the world (As Samus)

Make this happen.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Xandercosm Vs. the world (As Samus)

Make this happen.

Better than any genesis 3 Grand finals! Maybe we can do doubles as Samus if anybody who is better than me wants to join?
I probably could learn a thing or two about Samus from experts like Bowserboy3

 

[Bowserboy3]

Better than any genesis 3 Grand finals! Maybe we can do doubles as Samus if anybody who is better than me wants to join?
I probably could learn a thing or two about Samus from experts like Bowserboy3

If you want some doubles sometime that is perfectly fine. I am always looking to play new people and pick up tips here and there.

Is it gonna be like at school?
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
Or rather...
SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!

Hah! Nah it's just a bit of fun really. Aside from me hopefully representing the Samus boards a bit, I also want to play as many people as possible (not in a FG setting, loool) to extend my game with the four characters I focus on.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

If you want some doubles sometime that is perfectly fine. I am always looking to play new people and pick up tips here and there.

I always wanted to do some shield break baiting and do the bomb dair kill like Danish. I just can't get the bomb positioning right.
that strategy would be great in doubles

 

[my_T]

I'll make a list of weaknesses:

• Bad frame data
• Bad landing options
• Extremely situational combos (mostly she fights with just single hits)
• Awful gimpable recovery with very low range
• Slow speed
• A frame and weight perfect for being comboed to oblivion
• No combo breaker moves, making the issue even worse
• Bad overall mobility
• Some of the most disgustingly bad projectiles in the entire game (literally, the missiles are a ****ing joke)
• Half her moves whiff at the most unfortunate times, making her combo game even less reliable
• Her smash also whiff quite often, unsurprisingly (namely U-smash)
• One of the worst grabs in the entire game
• A throw game that is laughable
• No kill throw

The list just goes ON and ON. I, personally, think she is one of the worst overall characters in the game and probably doesn't even deserve bottom 10. I think she is closer to bottom 5 due to being weak in basically every area important to competitive play. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people such as Bowserboy3 defend her so relentlessly.

You my friend are clearly playing a different game; definitely not smash 4.

Everything in red is wrong.

some of her moves have a good chunk of start up, NOT ALL (Up B, Uair, Dtilt, jab 1 are all quite fast; CS and Ftilt have little start up) and some of her moves are very safe (Uair, Zair, Bair if spaced properly)

she has a solid combo game off of Uair, Zair, Dash attack, and Dgrab. All but Zair combo into other aerials. Zair can combo into dash attack.

also, her Uair makes for a decent combo breaker against characters that don't have disjoints.

missiles have a fair amount of start up and end lag but they serve they're purpose. if spaced and timed well they make it hard for the opponent to land, they do a ton of shield damage which means you have to perfect shield these things or say goodbye to your shield, they do good damage on hit, one missile is fast while the other is homing, u can have two homing missiles out at one time, both missiles are good grounded zoning tools that cover the entire stage and can force aerial approaches which she is quite good at stopping thanks to her more than adequate aerials.

not to mention when she has CS all of these things become that much more difficult to deal with because CS demands absolute respect.

and her recovery is GOOD, same goes for her edgegaurding. you would be a fool to think otherwise. grenades have a bit of aerial mobility, stalls, and provides protection from below, her jump goes pretty high, she has a wall jump, her Up B has a hitbox and pretty much no start up, she's floaty, and can use her tether to recover which has a ton of range.

please come join us in smash 4

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Why? Are you forgetting the Mario Galaxy series? What about 3D World? Super Mario Maker? Mario's games are generally amazing, Rosalina's Smash incarnation is not.

I really find all your posts about Rosa ironic because you secondary one of the characters that has a better matchup vs her. Shes not as broken as sheik and if sheik was not as broken as Rosa or ZSS? Why is she number 1? Results yeah, but Sheik is by far more broken then them and Rosa has more problems. Without Luma, she is like a mid tier character, maybe high tier.

 

[Xandercosm]

Actually, I'm happy to admit that I have been beaten by a few skilled Samuses on FG in particular. I really don't feel like that changes my mind at all. I have been beaten by Jigglypuffs before and I still think that she's the worst character in the game. I don't really see how it would matter wether I have faced a good Samus player or not.

I would like to point out that this thread seems to be a breeding place of very unusual and misinformed opinions. One person who seems to be an authority says something and then everyone else, like drones, latches on to the idea. This is why we have people in this thread making some of the craziest Smash 4 tier lists on the internet. I think it's a good idea to branch out and see what peoples' opinions are ALL over the internet. There are few outside of this thread that would agree that Samus is above top 10.

The thing is, I think it's one of those situations where no matter how many times I make detailed lists of her various crippling flaws, there will be relentless pushback. She is not a good character. I don't care if you have some strange Samus fetish, Bowserboy3 , she will never be good until she is buffed. She is a situational, slow, weak, mess of a character.

I think you need to take a look at the character as a whole instead of making it your hobby to say she's so great. This also reminds me: I'd like to see what Zero would say on the matter. Not that his opinion is the be all end all but I think it would be interesting.

I won't keep arguing this point because it is futile and I have better things to do with my time. I would implore you, however, to expand your view and see other peoples' opinions in the future. Samus is a character you have to work incredibly hard with for very little reward, thus, she does not deserve to be anything but a low tier character.

Oh, and I would be happy to play with you whenever we get the chance, Bowserboy3 . I don't feel as though we have any score to settle but I am interested in seeing your Samus. I assume you can play quite well with her, considering your dedication to the character. I think it would be fun, although, I would kindly ask you not to record them as I would like to preserve my anonymity and such. Just PM me your NNID and we can play.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Actually, I'm happy to admit that I have been beaten by a few skilled Samuses on FG in particular. I really don't feel like that changes my mind at all. I have been beaten by Jigglypuffs before and I still think that she's the worst character in the game. I don't really see how it would matter wether I have faced a good Samus player or not.

I would like to point out that this thread seems to be a breeding place of very unusual and misinformed opinions. One person who seems to be an authority says something and then everyone else, like drones, latches on to the idea. This is why we have people in this thread making some of the craziest Smash 4 tier lists on the internet. I think it's a good idea to branch out and see what peoples' opinions are ALL over the internet. There are few outside of this thread that would agree that Samus is above top 10.

The thing is, I think it's one of those situations where no matter how many times I make detailed lists of her various crippling flaws, there will be relentless pushback. She is not a good character. I don't care if you have some strange Samus fetish, Bowserboy3 , she will never be good until she is buffed. She is a situational, slow, weak, mess of a character.

I think you need to take a look at the character as a whole instead of making it your hobby to say she's so great. This also reminds me: I'd like to see what Zero would say on the matter. Not that his opinion is the be all end all but I think it would be interesting.

I won't keep arguing this point because it is futile and I have better things to do with my time. I would implore you, however, to expand your view and see other peoples' opinions in the future. Samus is a character you have to work incredibly hard with for very little reward, thus, she does not deserve to be anything but a low tier character.

Oh, and I would be happy to play with you whenever we get the chance, Bowserboy3 . I don't feel as though we have any score to settle but I am interested in seeing your Samus. I assume you can play quite well with her, considering your dedication to the character. I think it would be fun. Just PM me your NNID and we can play.

>Reads for Glory

Ok ,you have legit gave no GOOD reasons to be saying half of this. HOW CAN SOMEONE hAVE A MISINFORMED OPINION THAT MAKES NO SENSE. Also, breedy place of very unsusual and misinformed opinions, is you. Legit you should comment of what others wrote about because YOU are the one misinformed. Also, i have yet to see you make a tier list, make one then bash on others like everyone else. She has better Pros then like Zelda, Miis, and Puff. A lot of your "flaws" are just flat out incorrect. We don't say she is sooo great, we think she is below the bottom half, some bottom 10. Also, "implore to see other opinions in the future" how about you do the same and not just see your own side? I can see both as I was a "Samus is the worst char" type of person. @TSM ZeRo if you ever see this, just give us your thoughts on samus, cause a lot of people have been wandering(Genesis 3 Reference)


EDIT:Sorry if I came out mean :D

 

[Xandercosm]

>Reads for Glory

Ok ,you have legit gave no GOOD reasons to be saying half of this. HOW CAN SOMEONE hAVE A MISINFORMED OPINION THAT MAKES NO SENSE. Also, breedy place of very unsusual and misinformed opinions, is you. Legit you should comment of what others wrote about because YOU are the one misinformed. Also, i have yet to see you make a tier list, make one then bash on others like everyone else. She has better Pros then like Zelda, Miis, and Puff. A lot of your "flaws" are just flat out incorrect. We don't say she is sooo great, we think she is below the bottom half, some bottom 10. Also, "implore to see other opinions in the future" how about you do the same and not just see your own side? I can see both as I was a "Samus is the worst char" type of person. @TSM ZeRo if you ever see this, just give us your thoughts on samus, cause a lot of people have been wandering(Genesis 3 Reference)

The rage tho. Actually, the reason I said "FG" is because you don't see any Samuses outside of FG due to the fact that she is utter garbage.

 

[Routa]

Btw what do we consider as a good recovery?


Samus has indeed many options when it comes to recovery, but they can still be challenged "easily". By "easily" I mean her ways to recover are slooooow. More time spent recovering = easier to target. Along with that she is a tall target which makes it easier to interrupt her recovery. I would say she is "weak" to projectile edgeguarding due to after loosing double jump she is very helpless due to Up-B lacking sideways movement. And once again I'm not calling her recovery Little Mac bad, but her recovery has its flaws... Her recovery is above/below average depending from what you consider important when it comes to recovery (speed, distance traveled, safety and/or options).

 

[ShadowGuy1]

The rage tho. Actually, the reason I said "FG" is because you don't see any Samuses outside of FG due to the fact that she is utter garbage.

Yeah, i did not mean to seem angry, i added an edit right before your thing came up. Also i think some Johnny guy placed top 8 with her at Esam Saga at SoCal iirc. ~~Better results than buff in her lifetime~~

 

[Xandercosm]

Btw what do we consider as a good recovery?


Samus has indeed many options when it comes to recovery, but they can still be challenged "easily". By "easily" I mean her ways to recover are slooooow. More time spent recovering = easier to target. Along with that she is a tall target which makes it easier to interrupt her recovery. I would say she is "weak" to projectile edgeguarding due to after loosing double jump she is very helpless due to Up-B lacking sideways movement. And once again I'm not calling her recovery Little Mac bad, but her recovery has its flaws... Her recovery is above/below average depending from what you consider important when it comes to recovery (speed, distance traveled, safety and/or options).

I notice it is especially weak against spikes due to it having the perfect angle for landing a Dair such as Captain Falcon's.