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Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion

FastFox

Faster than most vehicles
BRoomer
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Yeah, sticky that for sure ^^

I always try to teleport on the Falco's advance, so that you teleport through the forward-moving falco and the lasers and land behind them, where you can either wavedash -> f-tilt or grab before the falco can turn around.
 

Taj278

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I retested Falco, Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Jigglypuff since those were the only ones that were different from mine. With my DI I managed to make Sheik survive consistently at 127% and Ice Climbers at 106%. I have 128% Sheik and 107% ICs for guaranteed KOs.

Falco, however, seems to inconsistently live at 171%. With the same DI as the other characters he seems to die more often than not at 171% and I quintuple checked stale moves. But, the goal is to have guaranteed KOs so I put him at 172% since for whatever reason he happened to live.

Jiggs with the same DI I've been using I've consistently had been KOed 1% lower than what you've posted. I have 95% Jiggs.

Otherwise, thanks for posting and you may have one Taj virtual cookie. (M2 Currency used toward the purchase of information from Taj's fountain of knowlege.) :D
 

PK Webb

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Im having trouble with platforms. i feel like when a opponent hits the i have trouble following up so sine almost every stage has them ould someone help me with follow ups after they hit the platforms
 

elvenarrow3000

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Two questions.

a) Don't you ninja everyone's cookies? I feel like this is drastically reducing the availability of cookies.

b) Is there a catalog that accompanies Taj's Fountain of Knowledge?

T. Webb, it depends on the height of the platforms. Uair should generally be able to hit. I'd wait for the tech or get up first, though. It also depends on what you do to get them up there. I know Taj can get people on a platform with a fair or uair or something and then doublejumps into a kinda doublejump cancel with another uair.
 

Denthorn

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I retested Shiek and realized I put the numbers down for the highest percentage at which she lives instead of dies :dizzy:. So for her it's really 119%/128%. I’m also getting the same result with Jigglypuff that you are now as well.

As for Ice Climbers, I can't for the life of me get them to live at 106%. I don't think I'm DIing any differently with them, but I must be doing something wrong... Is there some sort of small angle upwards or downwards I should be inputting for the DI? Or is it just straight to the side? x.x Not trying to disprove you or anything, I'm just thoroughly confused.

Otherwise, thanks for posting and you may have one Taj virtual cookie. (M2 Currency used toward the purchase of information from Taj's fountain of knowlege.) :D
:bee:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217809
Any advice would be appreciated. :)
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
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Two questions.

a) Don't you ninja everyone's cookies? I feel like this is drastically reducing the availability of cookies.

b) Is there a catalog that accompanies Taj's Fountain of Knowledge?

T. Webb, it depends on the height of the platforms. Uair should generally be able to hit. I'd wait for the tech or get up first, though. It also depends on what you do to get them up there. I know Taj can get people on a platform with a fair or uair or something and then doublejumps into a kinda doublejump cancel with another uair.
A.) Yes, but it doesn't mean I can't give one or two back for good things. :) There are plenty of cookies available to be earned, because I've taken so many.

B.) Nope.

Denthom: Straight to the side. My first up throw I got Popo to live at 106%.
 

Omni_Smash

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I need some training tips, from anyone in general.

Right now I've got a huge mind game going with my freind whenever I play Mewtwo, they aren't stupid and they know what they should be doing but they are scared to death of my M2 because I've been able to pull of weird mental games against them when I taught them to play competitively. Example I would let my freind's fox **** me down to one stock while just barely tacking damage to him, then on my last stock I land a grab while at 0% and instant kill him from there it's ****.

But the skill level has drastically closed within the past few months and I'm wondering what I can do for secret training? as in train while in a match without them realizing it or just train against comps.
 

PK Webb

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I have a double f-air question i noticed in training mode whenever i do a double f-air the first hits but when the second hit hits its not a consecutive hit so how could i correct this becuse once i get that down i can start putting up vids.
 

Taj278

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Make sure there are no diminishing returns on your F-airs and up throw and it should combo. So kill yourself between practicing 0% combos, don't just reset percentage and jump back into it if you're looking to practice the real thing.
 

Metà

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Taj, I have a quick question.

What stage should I ban against Samus (assuming the whole set is just Samus vs Mewtwo)? I'm thinking Dreamland, even though it's one of my favourite stages. Samus just lives too long on it, and I can't think of anything else to ban.
 

Shadow Huan

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Hello Taj. Do you have any advice on Mr. G&W? I seriously have some issues against that character. I have figured that I should learn how long his attacks stay out for ect, but playing against G&W REALLY throws off any timing for me. More so than just about any other character, reguardless of who's plaing him/it... (I really can beat Fox, even Roman's, if I play agressivly. Really! >.> I'll get video proof!)
 

PK Webb

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After you up throw if the opponent DI's back what are good ways to follow up??
 

DarkDragoon

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After you up throw if the opponent DI's back what are good ways to follow up??
>_> That depends on character and %.
Low percents: Use applicable Aerial- UAir or BAir or backwards DJCFAir.
Middle percents: Chase down...and do something? Usually grab again...Why would you even UThrow someone at mid-percents?
High Percents: Don't know why you missed the kill %. Just do what you need to to grab them again, shock them 2 or 3 times, and then UThrow for *hopefully* the kill.
-DD
 

PK Webb

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>_> That depends on character and %.
Low percents: Use applicable Aerial- UAir or BAir or backwards DJCFAir.
Middle percents: Chase down...and do something? Usually grab again...Why would you even UThrow someone at mid-percents?
High Percents: Don't know why you missed the kill %. Just do what you need to to grab them again, shock them 2 or 3 times, and then UThrow for *hopefully* the kill.
-DD
i meant only at low percentages mid percentage i d-throw and high percentage i either back throw on the edge or up throw for the kill. thanks though. The purpose of my previous question was say at 0 percent i up throw a fox and he DI's a far behind me as possible what would be a good follow up
 

DarkDragoon

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i meant only at low percentages mid percentage i d-throw and high percentage i either back throw on the edge or up throw for the kill. thanks though. The purpose of my previous question was say at 0 percent i up throw a fox and he DI's a far behind me as possible what would be a good follow up
>_> You can try for the Backwards DJCFAir...or get good with hitting them there with the BAir.

I think you can WD back and SH/DJCUAir. I haven't tried it though.

If you have a stocked Shadow ball, just reverse B it.
-DD
 

Shadow Huan

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Hello Taj. Do you have any advice on Mr. G&W? I seriously have some issues against that character. I have figured that I should learn how long his attacks stay out for ect, but playing against G&W REALLY throws off any timing for me. More so than just about any other character, reguardless of who's plaing him/it...
*Twiddles fingers patiently* still waiting. i'll take advice from anyone...
 

DarkDragoon

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I would, but I have only played that match up a few times, and I barely remember how I did them. I do remember winning though =D.
-DD
 

Shadow Huan

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I would, but I have only played that match up a few times, and I barely remember how I did them. I do remember winning though =D.
-DD
Thaks for actually noticing. :) I've played some G&W players and I've always found it to be a hard match-up for M2, and even my Marth, depending on the stage. I've been learing G&W's capabilites, but some advice would still be nice...

Anyone at all?
 

Taj278

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PEACH

Peach's Magic Number is 105%


Peach for Mewtwo needs to be a long match for any hope of winning. Basically, Peach is completely covered in approach, has a better projectile, and priority. Some Peach players like Forward air on your shield or spaced to stop approaches, followed with either jabs, grabs, down smash or a retreat.

Call and chase the retreats with grabs at low % and tilts at higher %, and you might be able to forward air out of shield the down smash if it didn't eat under your hard shield. If the forward air hits your shield, you're fine; Peach can't follow up because Mewtwo slides. If it pushes you to the edge, then slowly plan out how you're going to get back on the stage and avoid stupid hits. Basically try not to take unnecessary damage, as everything counts for both people in this match. Peach dies early off of the top except on DL64, and Mewtwo has to die from forward air, neutral air, forward throw and other moves at moderately higher percentages.

If you get Peach off of the stage, and she's at an altitude where you can back air, be patient and wait for a good one to throw and force an air dodge, chase a neutral air and keep chasing until you see she can neutral air you. If she's above you, chase with up air if possible, force Peach to throw her float and double jump cards and keep yourself in a position where you can make something happen.

On the stage, catch projectiles if possible, though her throws are better, if there is a lot of distance, then just back up and baby shadow ball spam hoping for an opening. If Peach wants to be a *****, then you gotta choke her like one. If you're down in percentage, then you gotta turnip/shadow ball approach get grabs/down tilt forward air combos and just slowly rack up the damage for the throw KO. Throw her off the stage and see if you can get some cheap kills with back airs and edge hogs, otherwise take it for the easy % if possible.
Most of this hasn't really changed. "If Peach wants to be a *****, then you gotta choke her like one."

OFFENSE

You generally want to down throw at low percentages, back throw off the stage at medium percentages when applicable. You can out space her down smash with down tilts BARELY, so keep that in mind when you want to pressure her shield. Up throw KOs, Forward air when applicable. Some decent combos on poor Peach players are:

Down tilt > Forward tilt > down tilt > Forward Tilt/Air >>> If Forward air then follow for the up air.

When you have her on a platform stage and you call her float:

Back air > Up air > Back air

is a good combo as you follow her using the platform between the up airs and next back air as she tries to DI up from getting hit.

You're mostly looking to neutral air her float and techs on platforms. Shadow ball her floats to get her to aerial or bring her down on the ground again. You want to keep doing that until you find her rhythm and start calling her approaches and retreats.

Fully charged shadow balls also help create set ups when Peach is floating. They force her to get out of the way some how. You generally want to throw it so it hits under Peach's dress to force her up and have a longer way down, it also serves to just hit her because she thinks it might just go under her or she was already performing an aerial.

DEFENSE

Peach's float cancels are really difficult to match up against. Fortunately, Mewtwo has a very big shield to absorb those blows and can often run circles around Peach and just straight up run away to the ledge and stall for your shield back after her attacks.

Until you figure out her rhythm for your offense, you're looking to punish every little mistake Peach makes. Poorly spaced aerials should get tilted, grabbed, or shield grabbed. You can encourage more mistakes by doing lots of small subtle movements like facing away then doing a quick pivot shield on her attack. If she grounds herself after the attack and goes for jabs, pressure her with a disable out of shield if the jabs are long and not properly spaced.

Neutral air out of shield on floated down airs that aren't well spaced or timed. Charge your shadow ball when there is distance on the Peach. Catch poorly thrown turnips and use them for a possible approach of your own. Peach throws items faster than you do, so you have to be careful when you use it offensively or you'll get neutral aired.

Low percentage down smashes from Peach are devastating, so when you're playing a down tilt spacing game, make sure you ****ing space, lol. You're really just looking to down tilt at medium percentages during a ground game or in between aerials where she can't crouch cancel you easily.

Stitch faces are gay, catch/avoid like normal. Bomb-ombs too. If she pulls a beam sword, do your best to get it from her. If you get that sword, you know have a viable and consistent ground spacing game against her. You can play her like Marth, shut down her float game and have a quick, viable ranged projectile.
When you down throw Peach, always be ready for a retaliated neutral air dropping back down on you. You just have to watch her DI. If she DIs up/neutral/back into you, don't go for the forward air at early percentages, go for up tilt instead if you can. You generally don't want to challenge Peach's aerials unless you're underneath her, her trades are often better than yours and her priority is also just better. You're looking to just keep moving and slowly building that damage until you can choke dat ***** and up throw her.


EDGEGUARDS
Back air and Up air is pretty much all you need and have for high recoveries. Baby Shadow Ball her float if you can and Teleport edgehog/SUNC and down smash mix ups for when you force her a bit lower. Otherwise, if she just tries to land on the stage, have your down tilt/KO grab/ Forward air ready for her.

LAST THOUGHTS

She did not bake you a delicious cake. You're going to take her cake and all of her cookies, so don't bite on any of her ****. Be patient and she will have to come to you if you have a solid defense and spacing game. She is Peach though, so you will get hit when there's nothing you can do about it. Just keep trying to avoid the killing blows, reset when you need to and create/wait for your openings with solid spacing and shutting down common Peach play like above head level floats, spaced dash attacks, and turnip spam.

Questions/Comments/Concerns?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. GAME & WATCH


MAGIC NUMBER IS 110%
INITIAL THOUGHTS

I don't really have much to say on him. He is a better character than Mewtwo, but he is very light and floaty like Mario. He has aerial priority, and a great SHFFL Shield pressure game. A good CC down tilt, good jab, decent wavedash > grab game, guaranteed combos and pretty much guaranteed KOS, and a turtle.

He has a poor shield that doesn't matter against Mewtwo except in cases of good neutral airs... M2's forward air is a killer, gimpable and fairly predictable recovery because it is more vertical than horizontal.

OFFENSE Grab down throw and wavedash forward. G&W has a very poor tech and you can punish people for DIing away at low % pretty well. If he jumps out of it then... that's all you got I guess. Charge your Shadow ball when you can. If you know he wants to play for a bucket, it doesn't matter. He needs 3 to use it, it is difficult to land on a good player, and you can punish him HARD for it. It doesn't go away when he dies, but the main thing to keep in mind is that it is laggy when he catches something and his head is always vulnerable. Time you FC Shadow Ball to wave up and over his bucket and land on his head.

You can get punished for down tilting at low percentages and even medium percentages, so use sparingly on his ground game unless you want to eat his even stronger and better down tilt that can combo you harder. Use baby shadow balls with your approaches, try to get inside of him by moving around with good wavedashes and teleports and get those grabs on him. Mewtwo doesn't have very many combos on him aside from the bread and butter combo on floaties. (D-tilt, Forward air, up air.) Neutral air on his poor shield does well against him though if you get him onto a platform or attack him out of your shield from poorly spaced/attacks on your back.

DEFENSE

Even though G&W has air superiority and ground superiority, he is still pretty linear. If you can read his approach, punish and bait attacks, it can give you the openings you need to chip in damage for your up throw KO. You can also try to use Confusion' spacing to your advantage by using it as a counter to long forward air attempts by the G&W, safely out space down tilt, or calling his attacks out of shield with your own confusion out of shield. You have to throw it before he throws his aerials though.

G&W has guaranteed grab KOs and his best killers are neutral air, forward air, forward smash, and at higher percentages sweet spot down tilts. Fortunately G&W's SHFFL game doesn't give him free grabs, his game revolves around spacing from the shield grab, not so much the hit stun. So most of his KO moves can be avoided with good play, and you can keep chipping away at his percentage until he's in the danger zone.

EDGEGUARD

Basically, if you have him in a position where he's coming very high, there's not much you can really do since he beats you in the air. If he's in a position where he's pretty much forced to use his double jump to help his recovery, then you have something.

You jump out at him backwards just out of range of his forward air, but you want to be able to throw your back air at anytime. Bait his cover aerial and/or attack him when there is an opening, that one back air will probably be all you need to **** his momentum and then it's just a simple ledge stall to roll for the KO since he needs that double jump for horizontal mobility and his recovery is mostly vertical. His only saving grace is that he is kind of floaty. By pressuring him with the threat of back air, even if you trade, you should get something out of it unless you're in KO range yourself. You also have better aerial mobility, so it should be doable.

Just be mindful of early Up B's and attempts to land on the stage from the free fall. His recovery isn't HORRIBLE, it's just predictable... like Marth's in a sense.

Down Smash if you can't get the edge hog and be ready for possible tech and just repeat.

LAST THOUGHTS

Get grabs, don't bite on crouch cancel down tilt. You can't crouch cancel grabs, and you get free down tilts if he tries to at higher percentages. Try to make use of that poor shield to the best of your ability, but it's difficult when you don't have the tools. Avoid his KO moves which only 2 can be comboed from a grab. Avoid the second hit of his down air, and don't bite on that either because a down tilt usually follows unless you know you can beat it with your shield grab. Keep moving, keep getting him to make mistakes, and get him on the floor, get him get him on the floor, WHAT! Tech chases will get you the down tilts you're probably looking for. Back throw by ledges at middle to higher percentages, and remember your up throw for KO.

Don't try to challenge G&W directly, punish lag when you can. You can't really beat his down air head on, so don't try. Hit him from the side if it is obvious, and keep that Shadow Ball handy. It can hit through his small shield when you need it and it can hit his head. G&W has a bad roll so punish him for that too.
 

Teczer0

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Taj - For a more general question, I seem to have trouble using fair as much I should I guess.

Any advice on moves to set up for fairs or when I should be using them?

Also would you recommend using DJC fairs on shields?

She did not bake you a delicious cake. You're going to take her cake and all of her cookies, so don't bite on any of her ****.
LMFAO sooooooooooo good :psycho:
 

Taj278

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DJC Forward airs on shield work if they don't expect you to follow that up with a grab on characters with more traction like Sheik/Peach/Link. Otherwise, you want to do it if you know it can't be shield grabbed by people with less traction and you get some kind of gain from it like putting a character with a poor ledge game like ICs and Ness. Best instance that I've recorded of DJC forward air on shield was probably on Omar. Since then, I haven't really applied it THAT much, but it does come in handy sometimes. Once again, it isn't usually that safe of a move since most of the cast can shield grab it, but if you can space it well you can get down tilt to follow it or land a grab on certain characters.

Otherwise, Forward air isn't something you'll land all the time. You'll usually get it off of a down throw by the ledge since people instinctively want to DI back onto the stage. You'll get it following down tilts, short hopped out of shield following Sheik/Peach/Falco/Fox's down smash, and you'll get it if you can react to failed techs pretty well when you're tech chasing.
 

Shadow Huan

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MR. GAME & WATCH


MAGIC NUMBER IS 110%
INITIAL THOUGHTS

I don't really have much to say on him. He is a better character than Mewtwo, but he is very light and floaty like Mario. He has aerial priority, and a great SHFFL Shield pressure game. A good CC down tilt, good jab, decent wavedash > grab game, guaranteed combos and pretty much guaranteed KOS, and a turtle.

He has a poor shield that doesn't matter against Mewtwo except in cases of good neutral airs... M2's forward air is a killer, gimpable and fairly predictable recovery because it is more vertical than horizontal.

OFFENSE Grab down throw and wavedash forward. G&W has a very poor tech and you can punish people for DIing away at low % pretty well. If he jumps out of it then... that's all you got I guess. Charge your Shadow ball when you can. If you know he wants to play for a bucket, it doesn't matter. He needs 3 to use it, it is difficult to land on a good player, and you can punish him HARD for it. It doesn't go away when he dies, but the main thing to keep in mind is that it is laggy when he catches something and his head is always vulnerable. Time you FC Shadow Ball to wave up and over his bucket and land on his head.

You can get punished for down tilting at low percentages and even medium percentages, so use sparingly on his ground game unless you want to eat his even stronger and better down tilt that can combo you harder. Use baby shadow balls with your approaches, try to get inside of him by moving around with good wavedashes and teleports and get those grabs on him. Mewtwo doesn't have very many combos on him aside from the bread and butter combo on floaties. (D-tilt, Forward air, up air.) Neutral air on his poor shield does well against him though if you get him onto a platform or attack him out of your shield from poorly spaced/attacks on your back.

DEFENSE

Even though G&W has air superiority and ground superiority, he is still pretty linear. If you can read his approach, punish and bait attacks, it can give you the openings you need to chip in damage for your up throw KO. You can also try to use Confusion' spacing to your advantage by using it as a counter to long forward air attempts by the G&W, safely out space down tilt, or calling his attacks out of shield with your own confusion out of shield. You have to throw it before he throws his aerials though.

G&W has guaranteed grab KOs and his best killers are neutral air, forward air, forward smash, and at higher percentages sweet spot down tilts. Fortunately G&W's SHFFL game doesn't give him free grabs, his game revolves around spacing from the shield grab, not so much the hit stun. So most of his KO moves can be avoided with good play, and you can keep chipping away at his percentage until he's in the danger zone.

EDGEGUARD

Basically, if you have him in a position where he's coming very high, there's not much you can really do since he beats you in the air. If he's in a position where he's pretty much forced to use his double jump to help his recovery, then you have something.

You jump out at him backwards just out of range of his forward air, but you want to be able to throw your back air at anytime. Bait his cover aerial and/or attack him when there is an opening, that one back air will probably be all you need to **** his momentum and then it's just a simple ledge stall to roll for the KO since he needs that double jump for horizontal mobility and his recovery is mostly vertical. His only saving grace is that he is kind of floaty. By pressuring him with the threat of back air, even if you trade, you should get something out of it unless you're in KO range yourself. You also have better aerial mobility, so it should be doable.

Just be mindful of early Up B's and attempts to land on the stage from the free fall. His recovery isn't HORRIBLE, it's just predictable... like Marth's in a sense.

Down Smash if you can't get the edge hog and be ready for possible tech and just repeat.

LAST THOUGHTS

Get grabs, don't bite on crouch cancel down tilt. You can't crouch cancel grabs, and you get free down tilts if he tries to at higher percentages. Try to make use of that poor shield to the best of your ability, but it's difficult when you don't have the tools. Avoid his KO moves which only 2 can be comboed from a grab. Avoid the second hit of his down air, and don't bite on that either because a down tilt usually follows unless you know you can beat it with your shield grab. Keep moving, keep getting him to make mistakes, and get him on the floor, get him get him on the floor, WHAT! Tech chases will get you the down tilts you're probably looking for. Back throw by ledges at middle to higher percentages, and remember your up throw for KO.

Don't try to challenge G&W directly, punish lag when you can. You can't really beat his down air head on, so don't try. Hit him from the side if it is obvious, and keep that Shadow Ball handy. It can hit through his small shield when you need it and it can hit his head. G&W has a bad roll so punish him for that too.
Thanks Taj! :bee: will now study...
 

Shadow Huan

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Well... Yeah, he's right... you're right about everything...

I nailed a G&W with a FC Shadowball while he had the bucket out... O.o

*It'll be in my trailer...*
 

PK Webb

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well i dont no any g&w but i will def remember the tips. peach on the other hand im still trying to choke her but she never dies. Especially since of her broken d-smash i still have trouble put a decent amount of damage before she takes off that 1st stock
 

Taj278

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By discuss I mean questions, comments, concerns? What is Peach doing with her down smash that is making it hard for you? C'mon it's ok if you disagree on something, I'd like to think that I'm pretty open minded. This isn't just a how to beat X character thread, this is a match-up discussion thread. Talk about the match difficulty, talk more about how the Peach is sealing you off and how to get around it better. I know I didn't cover EVERYTHING.
 

Teczer0

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I would love to discuss but I simply don't have the experience yet :(.

Currently spacies are a giant pain in the ***. OMFG I hate them :(.

Its so hard to land grabs and sometimes I get scared to throw baby shadowballs.

:(:(:(

Also since you asked I have a hard time dealing with Peach's floats. Do you full hop and throw shadow balls to force her to go to the ground?

EDIT: I played a falco and I upthrow confusioned the falco who missed a tech on a platform which I dsmashed.

Up-throw confusion is amazing.
 

PK Webb

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here would be my typical situation.....
peach is on the edge and if im far away she throws turnips. When i wavedash in and try a down tilt she spams the hell out of down smashes. And im not good at approaching from above unless its with nair. But the problem with is if i come down with the aerial if she shields and there i am again being down smashed. Babyshadows ball do help and then peach approaches me but since i have no REAL combos on her and mewtwos hits have very little knockback they usually CC and downsmah away for like 30%-60%. I usually try and retreat and babyshadowball but i cant do that forever so im sorta stuck doing little damage to her while im sitting in the 100% area ready a f-throw death. Man that was alot. Are there good ways to get peach out of the air and into a combo maybe d-throw to DJC fair to follow up? I also see what you mean by DISCUSSION. I think we r just taking advice and not try to display our own opinions or ask better questions. Im guilty of it too. Im going to try and correct that though.
 

DelxDoom

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Taj is amazing, end of [hypothetical] discussion.

I liked your Peach mentality xD
 

Taj278

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Teczero: Yes, you full hop and throw the shadow balls at Peach's float height to bring her down.
Against spacies, Fox specifically, you throw shadow balls when there is distance and use it for your approach to close the gap. Depending on the Fox you have to read whether to pursue with a long wave dash to cover his retreat or weave in and out to outspace any dash grabs/SHFFL attempts on his part.

For both of those characters the baby shadow ball is being thrown just to force them into doing something that can create openings for you. Throwing it may force the Falco to stop lasering, attempt to reflect it, tilt/jab it, or just get out of the way. All of those things let you get inside their "pocket" and from there you read how they're going to move and whether you need to call their retreat or their attack. I can go into more detail if you need it.

T.Webb- You're looking at this match up the wrong way. This is practically a hit and run game for Mewtwo. You're basically treating this like Fox on Dreamland, but without the Dreamland and the flatland infinites to finishers, a highly spammable projectile, and applying the Dreamland mentality to other stages.

Comboing Peach comes when the opportunities are there. Like you just knocked Peach out of the air from her float, and you catch her with your spaced down tilt before she touches the ground again so it isn't crouch canceled. You landed a good neutral air and got good DI from the Peach so you can get a grab afterward. Then she DIs into you/up so you can up tilt after that, then you can chase that with more up airs or back airs. Those are all best case scenarios.

If you know that Peach is going to down smash your wavedash down tilt, then don't wave dash down tilt. Use a grab instead. Though you can still technically out space down smash with down tilt, but it is only at the tip, so the damage isn't going to be great. If you space it correctly anyway, she will probably miss and you'll get a free grab in that way.

Landing on Peach with an aerial is generally not a good idea unless it is neutral air anyway. You shouldn't be eating down smashes following your aerials onto her shield unless you miss an l cancel. You should be immediately rolling away from that. Neutral air isn't easily Crouch Canceled most of the time, and you should probably look for more grab opportunities at low % to avoid a CC "Whoring" Peach.

Just DI Peach's forward throw up and DI with (not against) Peach's down throw and you should avoid death into the 130-140s depending on location in stage. Depending on how you play it, Peach should have a tough time grabbing you anyway.

Peach turnip spam can be sealed by practicing catching carelessly thrown turnips. If you catch one by pressing A or in the air with the Z button, use can use those to pressure her float, pressure her from above and Z drop a turnip and follow that up with a neutral air to pressure her shield or cancel a shield grab.

Hope that helps a little bit. If it doesn't I can try to go into more detail in whatever you needed more help with.
 

Teczer0

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No you don't have to elaborate, I know exactly what you mean since I'm forced to do that with other characters vs fox anyway.

Many thanks =D.

Also I've been thinking of tech chase options especially when characters tech on platforms.

I usually use up-tilt because its safe and easy to use.

I was wondering is there any thing else? I guess f-air can be useful if I can predict the tech roll.

Also got any tech chase tips in general? Do you generally just tech chase with dtilts or grabs or do you use other things?

Because I was thinking of using disable for tech chases.....
 

Taj278

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I like neutral air, DJC up air, and up tilts for platforms, personally. I generally use grabs since people may CC the tilts. People have flirted with disable tech chases, but it's just too situational and most of the time the opponent isn't at the correct % to make it more useful. Disable breaks VERY quickly at lower percentage when you would be tech chasing anyway.

When I'm really bored I use Confusion to tech chase. :D
 

PK Webb

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that wont be necessary taj that was very helpful....but i do have a fox question. There was a fox at my last tourney that used dashdancing into aerials often but his empty shorthops would fake me. What do you think are good way to approach a fox in the air and if you dont mind but also explain good ways of taking them out of their dashdance.......babyshadowballs is all i can think of
 
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