Take another look at Ganon.

[Psychoace]

lol, a sonic player haven't give you +70% damage under 8 secs right?
Sonic is very VERY far to win the title of the worst character... He have top speed, top gimping abilties and is a top damage demon (can give you 46% in one ASC)...

Ganon isn't as bad... The real problem with him is he can't run to chase the opponet after he hits (you know what I mean).
Falcon was hardly nerfed but in the right hands you'll get "triple kneed" to your doom without prob...

I don't dare (YET) to say which character is the worst... We need more time to play and find it out and there are a lot of tricks that we haven't discovered.

I'm sorry hardly nerfed...

WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!

 

[Yuna]

I mean, he has his flaws (he happens to have a bit too many, but...), however, he's still far from the worst in the game. Far.

One such huge flaw would be a sucky recovery. It's OK to have a recovery that's not great in Brawl. A sucky one? Not so much.

I believe we shouldn't abandon him to the worst position, and this has been backed up by a couple moderately successful players. I don't really think his slow moves compliment the game's style, though. A character with slow *movement* can excel, but slow attacks are pretty limiting.

He's not the worst character. He's definitely very low, though (IMO). Any character can be played well enough to not auto-lose. There were good Pichu and Mewtwo players. It's just once you go up against good players using good characters, that's where your crusade ends.

 

[Dannykat]

The only problem i see with ganon really is his slowness and recovery. In the hands of a skilled player, Ganon can truly be a beast.

 

[crifer]

its difficult to say if ganon is the worst character,
"worst"...hmmm dont like the word because every character can be good.
i mean i saw yoshi players who played very good, maybe yoshi is buffed.
c.falcon is a worse than in melee, but there are some players that can **** with him,
ok jigglypuff, dont know much about her, and sonic....have realy problems with killing.
you know what i mean? the word "worse" or "bad" is realy undefined.

 

[RazeveX]

hes still butt ugly

 

[redgreenblue]

Okay, perhaps the tiny hours of the morning made me overly excited for ganondorf.

I think he'll be bottom of mid tier. Good combo potential, projectiles destroy him, spam destroys him. And contrary to what people think, his recovery is not that terrible. He has a decent recovery. Up+b has a pretty far vertical path and a bit of horizontal, and nobody can deny how great ganoncide recoveries are.

 

[Sliq]

But what is Ganondorf going to do when people projectile-camp him?

Camping does't work in Brawl, and I don't care who disagrees with me.

Or against people who do not let him combo into aerials because they're just too friggin' slow?

At low percents Ganon can combo almost all of the cast with dair. Ganon can triple dair combo snake, doing roughly 60+ damage.

Plus this game isn't about combos anymore. It's about reading your opponent. Get them in the air with Ganon, then up air them if they try to attack, or wait and up air or bair of they air dodge. Ganon is exceptionally at getting people in the air.

One such huge flaw would be a sucky recovery. It's OK to have a recovery that's not great in Brawl. A sucky one? Not so much.

His recovery isn't really bad at all if you can DI. Plus his up b has a LOT of vert. The only problem really lies in edgehogging, but the hae to time it right. Too early and I hit them, too late and I grab them.

I mean, sure, compared to a lot of characters Ganon's recovery sucks balls. But if you DI you should be fine (unless you are hit with a low trajectory move...).

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Or basically... It doesn't suck enough to be classified as a tether recovery, right?

 

[Yuna]

Okay, perhaps the tiny hours of the morning made me overly excited for ganondorf.

I think he'll be bottom of mid tier. Good combo potential, projectiles destroy him, spam destroys him. And contrary to what people think, his recovery is not that terrible. He has a decent recovery. Up+b has a pretty far vertical path and a bit of horizontal, and nobody can deny how great ganoncide recoveries are.

Ganoncide would be good if he didn't die unless he makes it back or sweetspots (or end up a huge target).

Also, his recovery is bad because it's predictable. And easily intercepted.

 

[Sliq]

Also, his recovery is bad because it's predictable. And easily intercepted.

Not really. I mean, if you don't have a second jump, then it is predictable, but it has a lot of priority, surprisingly, and seemingly teleports on top of his opponent the spark humps them.

If you have your second jump, you can easily just swat people away with your up air.

Plus he always has the option of over bing to the ledge, which will result in a suicide grab if people interfere or mispace, making people more wary of the risk.

The only down fall is edgehogging, and people bairing him into the side of the stage, but that can be teched with enough practice.

 

[Blad01]

Like i said multiple times in the Ganondorf's section, Ganon will end in the Low-Mid Tier, according to me.

But i don't want to explain again ^^ Come in the Ganon's section if you want to talk about it

 

[Yuna]

Not really. I mean, if you don't have a second jump, then it is predictable, but it has a lot of priority, surprisingly, and seemingly teleports on top of his opponent the spark humps them.

If you have your second jump, you can easily just swat people away with your up air.

Plus he always has the option of over bing to the ledge, which will result in a suicide grab if people interfere or mispace, making people more wary of the risk.

The only down fall is edgehogging, and people bairing him into the side of the stage, but that can be teched with enough practice.

It's not the worst in the game. But it's not really that good, either. Ganondorf is just a very "meh" character. Nothing inherently super-bad about him but nothing inherentely brilliant either.

 

[-Slash-]

Every ganon fanboy in this thread is saying "he has so much potential!" or "hes awesome if you use him right!", while im not saying couldn't happen, no one has shown us how "amazing" he is.

Until then, he sucks.

 

[Esoteric]

Your stupid too. Don't even act like you know what your talking about, because you don't.

OH THE IRONY.

 

[Sliq]

It's not the worst in the game. But it's not really that good, either. Ganondorf is just a very "meh" character. Nothing inherently super-bad about him but nothing inherentely brilliant either.

Pretty much.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Ganon is definately top tier, due to his speed, quick attacks and multiple jumps.

I think you are looking for the metaknight boards.

The only problem i see with ganon really is his slowness and recovery. In the hands of a skilled player, Ganon can truly be a beast.

It would only appear this way if the Ganon player you are against is quite a bit better than you are.

 

[Cooper736]

One such huge flaw would be a sucky recovery. It's OK to have a recovery that's not great in Brawl. A sucky one? Not so much.

Noooooooooooooooooo. Ganon does not have a sucky recovery. I do not understand why people keep saying this. You're right to say that his recovery is in no way spectacular, but like Sliq said, it does have good priority, and is easily steerable with a bit of practice, even being able to go straight up. And Murder Choke does kill on the ledge, but it's fast and sweetspots.

The only problem i see with ganon really is his slowness and recovery. In the hands of a skilled player, Ganon can truly be a beast.

This is a horrible argument to make. Ganon is beastly in the right hands, but so is everyone else. Ganon will never be higher than mid tier (at best) unless he turns out to have some miraculous, devastatingly powerful AT that no one has discovered yet.

 

[Blad01]

Noooooooooooooooooo. Ganon does not have a sucky recovery. I do not understand why people keep saying this. You're right to say that his recovery is in no way spectacular, but like Sliq said, it does have good priority, and is easily steerable with a bit of practice, even being able to go straight up. And Murder Choke does kill on the ledge, but it's fast and sweetspots.

After some testing, Ganon's recovery goes almost as far as Zelda's (in vertical).

By example, Ike's recovery sucks.

 

[Yuna]

After some testing, Ganon's recovery goes almost as far as Zelda's (in vertical).

By example, Ike's recovery sucks.

Umm... in what alternate universe?

 

[acv]

ganondorf is great!!! just look at his projectiles and huge jumps

 

[SD14]

Yoshi is much, much better than ganon. I personally believe that yoshi can attain mid-tier with the rate that they are pulling yoshi-specific ATs out of their butt.

Ganon just fails too hard in too many areas to be considered anything better than low tier.

yoshi is good when played by someone who plays him ALOT mainly cause not really anyone plays him the opponent doesn't know what to do against him, but anyway ganon and also yoshi could be very good chars just there isnt as many ppl playing them and working out new tactics for them as there are say meatknight and snake if they had that many ppl playing them then there would be lots more info on different tactics and such for them.

 

[redgreenblue]

Every ganon fanboy in this thread is saying "he has so much potential!" or "hes awesome if you use him right!", while im not saying couldn't happen, no one has shown us how "amazing" he is.

Until then, he sucks.

What the hell kind of logic is that? Obviously you know nothing about ganondorf.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=73Vx9JQPGNA

Perhaps you should back up your bull with facts if your opinion is so infallible. Until then, you suck.

 

[l3rian]

Sonic is the worst in brawl, then Ganondorf/Falcon.

b4 the game came out when they first announced sonic i was like "#%$@ YEAH! im gonna have some rapage combos from grinding up peoples buttholes!"

2 days after release "wtf man....."

 

[Ulevo]

First off, this shouldn't be discussed here.

As for the topic at hand, Ganondorf is definitely a good character. He is one of the more difficult characters to play, such as Link, but I don't think he is bad. The worst characters in Brawl without bias are definitely between Captain Falcon and Sonic.

Anyone stating Jiggs is at bottom deserves to be shot.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

One such huge flaw would be a sucky recovery. It's OK to have a recovery that's not great in Brawl. A sucky one? Not so much.

Olimar would have to disagree with this.. His recovery sucks balls, but he's still all right.

Or basically... It doesn't suck enough to be classified as a tether recovery, right?

Pretty much

Umm... in what alternate universe?

Melee.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

The worst characters in Brawl without bias are definitely between Captain Falcon and Sonic.

Anyone stating Jiggs is at bottom deserves to be shot.

i support the last sentence cause JP is one of my favs.
but why does everyone say sonic is at the bottom? sure he has like no kill moves and crappy priority but does that automatically drop him to the bottom? CF i have no comment cause i don't use him.

 

[Ulevo]

i support the last sentence cause JP is one of my favs.
but why does everyone say sonic is at the bottom? sure he has like no kill moves and crappy priority but does that automatically drop him to the bottom? CF i have no comment cause i don't use him.

Sonics only reliable kill moves are his FSmash, the first spin thrust of his DSmash, and his Bair. That being said, FSmash has bad start up lag, DSmash is almost as difficult to land, and the Bair is unfortunately not a frontal move. It's also slower than it could be, and the priority isn't amazing. Throw in the fact that Sonics moves lack range, and his speed (aside from running speed), priority and damage is below average, and you have a bad character. He has awesome recovery, and his running + vertical ability via Spring is fast, but there isn't much else to say about him other than a few specific details.

Captain Falcon and Sonic were characters that, with excellent speed, could have compensated for their downfalls. Unfortunately, Sakurai and his team decided to be lazy on these two, and they are not nearly as fast as they should be.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah...it's Captain Falcon that's been called the worst character in my experience.

Exactly.

Ganon is in NO WAY the worst.

He's pretty good if you know what youre doing. Thunderstorming = win.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Captain Falcon deserves justice!

 

[ElectroBlooper]

Originally Posted by Sliq
Camping does't work in Brawl, and I don't care who disagrees with me.

Can you explain this one to me Sliq? Not because I disagree with you, but because I would really like to know how you overcome camping, especially by Falco.

 

[Jekyll]

Can you explain this one to me Sliq? Not because I disagree with you, but because I would really like to know how you overcome camping, especially by Falco.

Really?

I sometimes have problems with characters that camp the ledge, but what's so hard about getting past Falco's lasers? They're not nearly as bad as in Melee.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

First off, this shouldn't be discussed here.

As for the topic at hand, Ganondorf is definitely a good character. He is one of the more difficult characters to play, such as Link, but I don't think he is bad. The worst characters in Brawl without bias are definitely between Captain Falcon and Sonic.

Anyone stating Jiggs is at bottom deserves to be shot.

How is Sonic the worst? He's not good, but he's not as useless as Captain Falcon.

How is Jigglypuff not at or almost at the bottom? This is coming from someone who does play her as a secondary sometimes. She's slower than she should be, rest doesn't kill anymore, can't combo, and most characters can make it back offstage vs. her anyway. Seriously, half her moves are taunts!

 

[Browny]

if ganon doesnt have a crappy recovery, how many characters have worse recoveries (you have to take mid-air jump and fall speed into account)

ivysaur, olimar, link, MAYBE ike

...

when hes got the 4/5th worst recovery out of 39 characters, i think that qualifies enough to be sucky. at least ivysaur and olimar are floaty enough to get near the edge. and ganons is extremely easy to edgehog. i wouldnt be surprised if every single KO i ever manage against my brother playing as ganon is not from being knocked out, but from not being able to recover.

 

[Blad01]

Umm... in what alternate universe?

What do you mean ? Yes, Ike's recovery is worse than Ganondorf's : He's heavier, his horizontal recovery sucks, and his vertical doesn't go very far...
IKE SUCKS !

 

[ShaolinAce]

Ganon >>>> Cpt Falcon.

 

[Sliq]

Can you explain this one to me Sliq? Not because I disagree with you, but because I would really like to know how you overcome camping, especially by Falco.

Because camping is really easy to do, and that's basically it. Someone camps you, but sucks at every other aspect of the game BECAUSE they spend all of their time camping. Then you get close, they can't camp anymore, and you ruin their ****.

 

[clowsui]

Off-topic: Sleeq why don't you get a premium account, ask Kel for a picture of Bitey and put it as your avatar in place of that ugly dog?

On-topic: Sliq is right, watch his video vs. Er!x; while the guy did take Sliq to 3 matches it's only because he went Metaknight. His Falco was hell bent on camping and Sliq destroyed him.

 

[goodoldganon]

I used to think Camping was OP but if you can learn how to effectively approach then you'll break it. No better way to learn then to play as Ganon since he needs it most.

 

[Ulevo]

How is Sonic the worst? He's not good, but he's not as useless as Captain Falcon.

How is Jigglypuff not at or almost at the bottom? This is coming from someone who does play her as a secondary sometimes. She's slower than she should be, rest doesn't kill anymore, can't combo, and most characters can make it back offstage vs. her anyway. Seriously, half her moves are taunts!

I already stated why Sonic is at the bottom above.

And no offense or anything, but you can't be very good as a Jiggs secondary if you really believe she is at the bottom. She is one of the faster characters in brawl due to her aerial maneuverability (second only to Wario, and you should never be on the ground with Jiggs either). She has one of the best edge guarding games that kills anyone not named Pit, Sonic and ROB, her aerials have high priority, Rest still kills at low percents compared to most moves in Brawl and be combo'd into via Dair... If you're just going to compare it to Melee Rest, of course it's garbage. Her Fair kills quite easily now and her Bair is still great, as is her Pound. She can double aerial in a short hop, and her Roll Out has been buffed out the wazoo. The only disadvantages Jiggs has is being extremely light and having no long range attacks or projectiles. Both can be worked around somewhat through proper DI and anti camping tactics.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I already stated why Sonic is at the bottom above.

And no offense or anything, but you can't be very good as a Jiggs secondary if you really believe she is at the bottom. She is one of the faster characters in brawl due to her aerial maneuverability (second only to Wario, and you should never be on the ground with Jiggs either). She has one of the best edge guarding games that kills anyone not named Pit, Sonic and ROB, her aerials have high priority, Rest still kills at low percents compared to most moves in Brawl and be combo'd into via Dair... If you're just going to compare it to Melee Rest, of course it's garbage. Her Fair kills quite easily now and her Bair is still great, as is her Pound. She can double aerial in a short hop, and her Roll Out has been buffed out the wazoo. The only disadvantages Jiggs has is being extremely light and having no long range attacks or projectiles. Both can be worked around somewhat through proper DI and anti camping tactics.

While of course you could just stay off the ground with Jiggs, that still doesn't detract from the fact that her Ground game is terrible. While her edgeguarding game is good, you do have to realize comparitvely many other characters have the same if not better edgeguarding capabilites (MK, ROB,DDD, Lucario,Marth,Kirby) and not at the expense of being super light and having a piss poor ground game. Rollout shouldn't really even be mentioned because it is so **** easy to see coming and either Spotdodge or Shieldgrab. While she has good priority on a couple of moves, her priority overall and pretty bad. Plus, the fact that she'll have to be in the air a lot means she'll be just those few inches close to flying off the screen when hit. I do agree with Rapid_Assassib here, Jiggs is looking to be one of the Bottom Tier characters in Brawl, and Tournament Results aren't lying to us right now.