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Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!

ryuu seika

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lol, Isaac Cless looks silly.

I'm not that interested in Asbel and Stahn as Stahn isn't all that great and I don't know Asbel but feel free to do it anyway if you want. I'd like to request that noone replace Lucas though as he's staying as Scott.
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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But Stahn's got the coolest voice ever. Asbel is pretty legit because he's actually a professionally trained swordsman and his Hi-Ougis are fantastic.
 

Innerscope

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@ryuu: I think it has to do with his cape. I remove it later.
*link deleted*
This is the link to the updated lloyd. Comes with upsmash, downsmash, backair, grabs, and many animations to remove T-pose. (grabs are still in beta)

@Gamedominator: The link I gave you a few days ago is gone. I removed it because I probably put the wrong files in the zip.

I need testing from you guys to see if I'm capable of doing these projects(cless and suzu) according to your opinions.

EDIT: @Gamedominator: I don't know how to edit the brsar. Do you still want stahn in?
 

Royal_Blade

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Where are you getting these characters from? Radiant Mythology 3? If so, Stahn is a great choice. I wouldn't mind having him. And don't put anyone on pit. I plan on using the Lloyd vertex on Pit for something.

And I already made the down smash for Lloyd... Quite some time ago too...
 

Innerscope

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I'm not getting them anywhere. I "vertex" the models by bone hexing them, since blender is a bad vertex editor and I'm not going to buy 3ds max($3000 is too much just to hack) and texture them(Is gimp a bad image editor?)

Down smash animations were made by you. I just done the psa.
I'll just port Isaac(cless) to someone else. Cless is the main tales character, so he should go over mario. (I'm planning to replace all the characters in smash bros.)
 

Royal_Blade

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Don't go for Mario... He has no weapon trails.

Use King Dedede instead. Since he's red (like Mario) so Cless' default color can be proper, and his hammer has trails on it, so it'd work nicely for slashes.

Just my 2 cents...

Also, If you can get the RM3 models to work. (IF) then can you see if their weapon are attached to the character model or if they're separate.

Just curious.
 

Innerscope

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If that's the case, then Cless will go over king dedede.

So far, these are the tales characters I'm working on:
Lloyd(this project)
Presea
Kyle
Asbel
Stahn
Rutee
Cless
Suzu
Tear(Just got started on it)
None of them are done. The lack of a vertex editor, fixing presea's bone tree, and importing Cless's model several times are making it difficult for progress to come. (none of the textures are done)

I also want to work on the emil project.

EDIT: RM3 doesn't have an mdl0 format.
EDIT2: Isaac has a sword. I can use PSA to allow the sword to hit and delete his cape polygons. (animating is going to be a pain)

I just had a thought: What are we going to do if we have two lloyds on the same project? Should I recolor the pit vertex to Spada?
I'm thinking about replacing mr. game and watch with a 3d model. Is it possible to do this?
 

ryuu seika

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Just tried out the new version of Lloyd and here's what I think of it:

Usmash - Seems fine but without effects looks too much like regular Tempest (obviously the lack of effects will be fixed).
Dsmash - Not bad.
Bair - Too similar to Nair IMO.
Grabs - Forgot to test.
A, A, A combo - Nice work!
Fspecial - Needs to remove previous momentum so it doesn't have massive horizontal movement.
 

Innerscope

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Usmash: Fire effects will be added(not finished
Dsmash: Damage set will be nerfed
Bair: Will have a new animation
AAA: This is a start of lloyd's new face animations. Next update will be his mouth textures.
Fspecial: This is a little complicated to fix. I'll deal with other things first.
Grabs: I probably shouldn't put them in public testing....

EDIT: This is what will be in the next update:
Lloyd's face animations
Finished side and down special
Graphical effects: Team Destiny style
Final smash
Smoother animations
Fixed grabs
This may be released in two weeks. Everything may not be fixed, though (I need more time, but I don't want this topic to die)
Also, I will postpone my other projects to continue working on lloyd.

EDIT2: I'm not sure if everyone knows this, but Royal Blade made the down smash animation, and ds22 made the aerial side smash psa
 

GP&B

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Awesome, thanks for pushing this project out of its grave Innerscope. At this point, there isn't too much that the current revision of Lloyd I have would add to what you have going besides a couple of smoother animations and some graphic effects (and longer sword trails).
 

Innerscope

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I won't guarantee that everything I mentioned will be in the next update. It's a lot of work. I should refrain from lloyd's face until all attack animations are complete.
Specials are harder than I thought. I forgot that demon fang and psi tempest still needs work.
I decided to put graphical effects to the side for now. Moveset is more important.
Final smash may deal with a landmaster. I'll edit fitwolffinal.pac if this happens.(It would also take a while)
Making smoother animations was just adding empty frames and the last one dealt with wait1. However, some need actual work(Sword rain and Sonic thrust)
Grabs were lacking in gfx. Some were broken(I forgot to convert decimal to hex when making his left grab)
Some progress was made this week. Blazing tempest now has fire effects, sonic thrust is now fised, and grabs have gfx now.(This progress isn't available yet. Blazing tempest and grabs aren't done)
Also, the public release doesn't fix tempest. I know what was causing him go randomly teleport because I made blazing tempest without touching the Abone and there were no glitches on the animation.
Is Zephron and Stickman on anymore? They were the ones who made lloyd's sfx. Blazing tempest needs an SFX. (The sfx belongs to wolf's upsmash)

EDIT: I'm thinking about putting a win2 animation in. It involves lloyd messing up when he puts away his swords and he cuts himself by accident. Does anyone approve of this?
EDIT2: It's a shame that I came to work on lloyd this late. Barely anyone follows this board. I still won't stop though. It's because the tales series is one of my favorites.

EDIT3: http://www.mediafire.com/?k5zjji38rckq0yu
Here is the updated lloyd. It lacks half of what I mentioned up there (I haven't started on that stuff yet)
Has: fixed sonic thrust
smoother animations
Grabs with better gfx (Although ThrowB has the wrong gfx)
Improved blazing tempest
GFX for down smash(It doesn't look like a shockwave though)
 

Innerscope

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Does anyone know how to port animations from tos2 to brawl? If no one on the team knows, then I'll just have to type down everything by hand. If that's the case, then final smash isn't coming in the next two weeks. Lloyd's hi ougi has 668 frames.
 

GP&B

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I believe thanyou was responsible for ripping most of the animations from ToS2 for Lloyd. I don't know if he ever found his Mystic Arte animation though.
 

Innerscope

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I just ported the animation. Final smash still isn't done, though. Lloyd's mystic arte is a combination of finalstart, final, and probably finalend. I'll be breaking the animation down to these, along with creating psa and editing fitwolffinal.pac.

I'm also currently adding in animations for items. I'll look in ef_wolf.pac (I think this is the name of it.) and try to edit it. It could be causing those color glitches that isn't toon_v1.

EDIT: Apparently, ef_wolf.pac is a duplicate file of fitwolf.pac (honestly, if you take out all the duplicate files, you'll save about 2 GB)

@Gamedominator06: Also, since Eternal Yoshi fixed the item glitch, and UltrawingX fixed rising falcon, I don't want to fix those, but I might have to, since your computer is having problems.
I want Lloyd's dash attack to be tiger rage. Do we have any sound editors on the team anymore? Tiger Rage and Blazing Tempest really need sounds. (I'm a noob at making sounds)

EDIT2: I ripped out all of the tos2 animations for lloyd. Many of them are useful. In fact, I might have enough to take out the T-pose issue. I'll send my update on Saturday.
 

GP&B

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I know somebody here had made Blazing Tempest sound pretty solid. I don't remember who did it though.

All this progress is awesome to see though.
 

Innerscope

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Royal Blade made the blazing tempest sound. I saved it in my SD card. I just don't know how to inject it, nor do I know where wolf's upsmash sound is.

EDIT: All the animations are ported in. Lloyd still has the t-pose problem, but it only happens when certain items are held or when Lloyd is being grabbed. (A few other animations aren't done yet)
 

Royal_Blade

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Huh.

Can someone make a video of this?

I am really not in the mood to install riivolution again... (yeah... still haven't bothered with it.)

Personally, I want to see this final smash animation tbh. And the down smash. XD
 

Innerscope

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@ryuu: Basically the grabs and stooljumping. I want to know if there are any problems with Lloyd being knocked down as well.

@RoyalBlade: Final smash is just an animation. No PSA is done on it yet.
 

Christian_CAO

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Yeah, after testing him a bit I find that his smashes are kind of lacking in terms of their charging animations.
It's still early and it is not that big of a deal but the little things do matter. So here is my short statement about
your work so far on Lloyd.


-------------------------------- [MEAT]

His up B activates way too late and his side B (the rising falcon) doesn't have enough ending lag
( it is quite spammable, I kind of like it :p ).

Rising falcon also goes into an ending animation freeze when you use it just barely off of an edge
and touch the surface of the stage before the air above it.

In other words, until he gets hit or falls off the platform that he is on, he is frozen in the ending animation
for rising falcon. You can still move around, but not attack.

This is most prominent on Delphino Plaza when the umbrellas are present. Also, so far only on delphino (two staircases and a statue in the middle), he teleports when he uses his up tilt
(I believe it is Psi-tempest) when he is on a stair case part of a stage and he will die instantly.

Beast is just meh. It's not important right now, seeing as it is still quite an early build.

Down tilt is sword rain alpha, right? yeah, it may be too fast, to appreciate the animation work. But that's not really
important right now either.

No need to bring up missing animations or lighting issues... basic polygon explosion from grabs like Ganon's up B and
nonsense like that will be done in time. Hit boxes seem kind of out there with his basic attacks too.

--------------------------------------------- [/MEAT]


Over all, the early build for Lloyd, seems a little stiff. Animations should really be worked on before PSA work. He really
needs polishing way more in that area first, so he feels more fluid.

You guys are doing a phenomenal job, and I can't wait to see how this'll turn out in the end. I just hope you don't give up half way.
Keep it up, you're the best ;)
 

Innerscope

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EDIT: I thought the lack of animations caused grab glitches. When I looked into the file using Tabuu, I found out that the HipN bone isn't positioned properly. Basically saying, the HipN bone is actually Lupleg.

@Christian_CAO: Final smash goes first. Also, we might not get a charging animation. I once done a charge and it took 70 KB. Our limit is 1850 KB and we are already at about 1600+ KB.
@ryuu seika: That was done on purpose. The idea was to punish lack of defensive play because Lloyd is better in combat then most characters.

The mod I use is brawl-. However, I will make ports for Brawl+, Project: M, and Bbrawl, later. (no one cares about vbrawl. LOL)

Things that must be in before another patch:
Fixed hitboxes (should be easy)
Fixed specials (I'll try to change the animation flags and see if that will read momentum)
Completed Final smash (easy but time consuming)
Fixed tempest (reposition the Abone. Also easy but time consuming)
Fixed dash attack (A lot of KB is saved. However, this might not be in the next update)
Polygon explosion fix (He doesn't explode anymore! However, Snake still has issues due to lack of animations.)

I already have the tiger rage sound, thanks to ryuu seika.
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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Done and done. I have placed your name under the current team members and have credited you with the continuation of Lloyd's development. The title has been changed to reflect this.
 

Innerscope

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@Gamedominator: Thanks.

About progress: I added animations where Lloyd gets grabbed and when he holds a launcher. The launcher animation isn't tested yet, so it may look weird. Also, Lloyd's polygons don't seem to explode anymore! (Except when Snake grabs him)

Obstacles to progress:

File size limit: We have about 300 KB to work with on the motionetc file. If we're not careful, a single animation could easily hog up all of that. (We have about 40 animations to deal with)
Thrown animations: I don't know why, but when I install an animation like this, polygons explode when Lloyd throws someone.
SFX: We don't have any SFX hackers anymore and I have no clue what to do with the sounds I have at the moment.
Specials: Demon fang's hard to rotate. Aerial rising falcon is too stubborn to act like Sonic's Dair. Aerial beast will probably be hard because Wolf and King Dedede don't have that kind of programming. Psi Tempest will need momentum changes, which I seem to have trouble with.


EDIT: I'm currently coding Lloyd so he will have proper sword traces. What kind of color does anyone want for Lloyd.
 

Royal_Blade

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Sword Trail should either be whatever matches each sword. (red for flamberge, blue for vorpal sword). But If you can only do one, then a light blue.

Also, did you separate Rising Falcon so it goes, SpecialSStart, SpecialS, and SpecialSEnd?
Because that should produce the best outcome for rising falcon. So you should do that.

And have you guys changed Lloyd's Demon Fang color? That would be nice for it to be blue instead of green. And why do you have to rotate demon fang?

and Just make Beast ground-only for now. Change it whenever you get the chance but it works way better on the ground than the air so that's why i'm saying this.

and the file size is probably like that from your divine justice animation. if you can cut that down, then we'd be fine.
 

Innerscope

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I think I can do 2 sword trails. If Marth can do, then it's possible.

After reading the statement about rising falcon, I think I found the problem. The motionetc file didn't support the animations coded in PSA (It only took a small difference such as a lower case letter to completely change the name. I'll work on that later)

I don't recall seeing a texture for demon fang. I'll double check the moveset file. I have to rotate demon fang to support aerial demon fang. The air B move equates to Emil's aerial demon fang.

Hunting beast was aerial down B. We haven't touched it yet.

Divine justice is not the problem to the KB limit. Surprisingly, it only has 50 KB, compared to Tiger blade, sonic thrust, and demonic circle. (Each contained 60-70 KB.)
 

ryuu seika

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On Sword Trails: the colour of the eternal sword (purple), it's glow (gold) or the swords fusing (white) might also work if we had to have only one but yes, the swords should have their own colours. I would like to suggest that they be the colour of the sword's glows though, not the swords themselves (orange rather than red/yellow for Flamberge, light blue not dark for Vorpal Edge).

On Demon Fang: IIRC it now has a blue hue change on it but it doesn't always work.

On Aerial Beast: if we switch to the second half of hunting (as originally intended) it wouldn't hit with the beast head in the air, meaning it could use code that Dedede already has (second half of upB?) but I don't know if Wolf has that.
 

Innerscope

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I just fixed the tempest glitch. It didn't involve repositioning the Abone (although that's an alternative)
It was as simple as turning off an animation flag.

I haven't figured out sword trails yet, but I think I'm close.

An update is planned to be released on Saturday. Here is what it contains:
Fixed tempest glitch
Everyone except Snake won't explode Lloyd's polygons.
Animations when Lloyd gets grabbed are added.
A few item animations are added. They deal with the assist trophy and cracker launcher (Although the launcher animations don't work ATM.)
An animation where Lloyd gets electrified is added.


Only times when polygons splatter:
Snake grabs Lloyd
Lloyd uses a forward throw (Occasional explosion. I think I know what's causing this.)
When Ganondorf or Captain Falcon uses an Up-B on Lloyd
Maybe a few other occasions. (not sure though)

Also, little by little, the motionetc file is reducing its size limit. We now have 400 KB to work with.
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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Keep BBox 0.62D (something close to that) around as the "Clean" function only works in that version and removes all extraneous keyframes which helps a ton.

That's awesome to hear that you're really cleaning out bugs that were really holding Lloyd back from feeling anywhere near fully functional.

What exactly is troubling you with sword trails? Is it the actually 8-bit command line itself or trying to actually add colors?
 

Innerscope

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I don't think it's either of those. It's just my first time coding sword trails.

Also, I don't have brawlbox 0.62. I only have .63 and .64. I wasn't around brawl hacking long enough to obtain 62. 64 has the working clean function, but it can't read Lloyd's model.
 
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