TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[uhmuzing]

Bulborb babies, Grubwigs and other enemies who would be in the range of their breath (and are instantly killed if they swallow whites) aren't harmed.

If their breath is identical to the toxins inside them, it isn't deadly or harmful in small amounts.


Also your font is really annoying to read in whiteboards.

I'm sorry; its just how I write here.

Let's look what we have here then, for you make a good point:

When eaten, even by a collossally sized enemy, the poison kills or harms them greatly in an instant. Whether small or large, this toxin is incredibly deadly.

On the other hand, enemies (small) can walk thru the poison breath unharmed, essentially immune to this poison or its amount. You said this was due to the small amount of poison not being enough. However, despite what I said before, this doesn't make sense to me, because those are small enemies that are able to walk thru it unharmed. And yet, when white pikmin are eaten by a HUGE enemy, the proportion of toxins to creature exposed are similar, except that the method of poisoning is different. Despite what my last post said, this leads me to believe that the poisons MAY be different after all....

This could mean two different things. One is that the white pikmin's breath may not be lethal at all, which would mean their weapon against the ICs is useless. The other possibilty is that the enemies that live thru this because they have an immunity against it. This is possible since enemies from the pikmin games have been shown to walk unharmed thru those poison pipes in PIkmin 2; meaning that enemies have some resistance against toxins.

Additionally, its also possible that the white pikmin can emit poison more than they let on. But anyways, if it sthe first choice of that last paragraph, we have lost our best weapon. If its the latter, the Ics may not have the same immunity as the creatures there do, being only human and not evolved around it.

@Joe - those other six are inferior to purple or white pikmin; thats why they haven't been discussed much.

And what a worthy 700th post!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not that I'm aware of. But if Olimar couldn't figure out how to command them to do it in the game, I don't think he'd figure it out in the course of this fight.

Instantly upon swallowing them.

Right, that's what I meant by "immune." He'd be taking the reserves from his suit rather than the poison.

Incidentally, if the Climbers managed to drag the fight out for thirty days, Olimar's reserves would run out and he'd die.

The fact that they do breath out the gas all the time seems to suggest that it was a game design choice that's unrealistic as opposed to Olimar not figuring that out, unless there's a better explanation.


Instantly upon swallowing? Yhem means that the poison is extremely potent because only a tiny amount will be absorbed by the digestive system immiediatly. Injested poisons are generally slower acting because of this (unless they're incredibly potent). Fundamentally ingesting a poison is also one of the least effective ways of being poisoned because animals (including humans) have a variety of defenses against ingested poison. Of course the higher concentration can make up for it, but not so soon.

This means that if they're constantly expelling those little clouds of gas, they should be killing enemies from them, to do otherwise is simply unrealistic.



And yes.

 

[UncleSam]

or it could apply to both dragonblooded, you see when a creature injests a white pikmin the poison goes straight to its intetinal system and kills it.
but, the creatures lungs may have adapted to resist poison. the creature dies from injesting poison not breathing it in. the
ICs would have to eat the white pikmin to be affected by the poison
The other 6 pikmin are just decoys
got ninja'd typing on my PSP sux

 

[adumbrodeus]

or it could apply to both dragonblooded, you see when a creature injests a white pikmin the poison goes straight to its intetinal system and kills it.
but, the creatures lungs may have adapted to resist poison. the creature dies from injesting poison not breathing it in.

That's a good point, depends on how common they are in the world, but it COULD be a mostly vestigial trait.

Most reasonable reason so far.

 

[uhmuzing]

That's a good point, depends on how common they are in the world, but it COULD be a mostly vestigial trait.

Most reasonable reason so far.

Okay, but is everyone in the mind that the breaths are toxic, or are they no use?

 

[Sieguest]

To see what happens in three hours...jesus...I'm too lazy to multiquote so I'll just wing it...

@arch knight: you completely miss the point on the cleats...it doesn't have to an air stomp or anything of the sort....if the pikmin mean to swarm the IC's from the ground then they have to get into an immediate range....so...they're open to get spiked...

@Dragonblooded- how dare you take advantage of my abscence...the IC's just got conspired against in the three hours I left....>.>
Pikmin are like bugs......ish...
in game there are enemies that can go through the posion cloud unharmed...they'd have to breath it in....a simple holding of breath and clearing through the cloud will suffice....and I still don't think the IC's will stoop to eating pikmin yet... (I really like the way uncle sam explained it...)

throwing a pikmin is like throwing a baseball to a baseball player....krring...and depending on the angle olimar may have his little buddy flying back at him...although powerful...pikmin are still light...

@adumbrodeus- darn........ you're siding with olimar? I think Dragonblooded is behind this....>.>


EDIT: @dragonblooded- I could say the breaths may be toxic...but passable...

 

[UncleSam]

white pikmin are too small to breath the toxins at a safe distance and have it work to its fullest potential they would have to breath it directly into the ICs mouth
pikmin tossing any1?

wait is olimar set at 10 or can he pick more once others die because thats what could end this right away. there is NO WAY ICs could last 720 hours against spawning pikmin theyd get tired too easily

 

[uhmuzing]

To see what happens in three hours...jesus...I'm too lazy to multiquote so I'll just wing it...

@arch knight: you completely miss the point on the cleats...it doesn't have to an air stomp or anything of the sort....if the pikmin mean to swarm the IC's from the ground then they have to get into an immediate range....so...they're open to get spiked...

@Dragonblooded- how dare you take advantage of my abscence...the IC's just got conspired against in the three hours I left....>.>
Pikmin are like bugs......ish...
in game there are enemies that can go through the posion cloud unharmed...they'd have to breath it in....a simple holding of breath and clearing through the cloud will suffice....and I still don't think the IC's will stoop to eating pikmin yet... (I really like the way uncle sam explained it...)

throwing a pikmin is like throwing a baseball to a baseball player....krring...and depending on the angle olimar may have his little buddy flying back at him...although powerful...pikmin are still light...

If the breaths don't work, there's only one more possiblity. If the pikmin can cough, doesn't that mean they have a mouth? Could they bite, perhaps?

If poisoning is out, then Olimar, the pikmin, and I are at a disadvantage....
Oh, and regarding the pikmin's weight - they are light just as they are small...except for the Purples.

@adumbrodeus- darn........ you're siding with olimar? I think Dragonblooded is behind this....>.>

I work in the shadows... Ha ha ha!


EDIT: Oh, I misunderstood.... well, Olimar can certainly throw Pikmin accurately enough....

 

[Sieguest]

white pikmin are too small to breath the toxins at a safe distance and have it work to its fullest potential they would have to breath it directly into the ICs mouth
pikmin tossing any1?

wait is olimar set at 10 or can he pick more once others die because thats what could end this right away. there is NO WAY ICs could last 720 hours against spawning pikmin theyd get tired too easily

unless there are onions around olimar is stuck at 10...and throwing them is an option...but that leaves them open to get batted (hammered) and possibly reciprocated back at olimar...

If the breaths don't work, there's only one more possiblity. If the pikmin can cough, doesn't that mean they have a mouth? Could they bite, perhaps?

If poisoning is out, then Olimar, the pikmin, and I are at a disadvantage....
Oh, and regarding the pikmin's weight - they are light just as they are small...except for the Purples.



I work in the shadows... Ha ha ha!


EDIT: Oh, I misunderstood.... well, Olimar can certainly throw Pikmin accurately enough....

lets hope the Ice Climbers just finished batting practice...
purples are slow anyway...super smash....
biting...the white's have to hope they don't get batted first if they're thrown...
If the climbers can bonk a moving condor, then...yeah...

about you working in the shadows...you dirty rotten..........

 

[uhmuzing]

@ Marthage - Aaarrrghhh! You fixed my quote!

Yes, the ICs can send 'em back at Olimar. But Olimar can throw pretty darn fast...

This all depends on one factor really - if the ICs will be overwhelmed before they reach Olimar. I mean, that's not the only factor; poisoning and purples are on Oli's side as ropes and hammers and sharp shoes are on the ICs side. Even without being thrown, Pikmin are living, breathing beings that can think for themselves if necesary and follow orders without hesitation; they're factors unto themselves. But the big one is that "who's going down first" thing. The ICs need only to reach Olimar for this one to be down....

 

[UncleSam]

lol i just remembered this from pikmin 2 purple pikmin can stun enemies significantly larger than themselves
discuss?
@marthage- oh OK then. its pretty much a stamina battle for ICs nao its either last 30 days or manage to defeat 10 pikmin with a mindset of "greater in numbers" ICs have to put their best foot forward and pull off some amazing teamwork

 

[Sieguest]

well I haven't discussed the squall yet...spin through the pikmin bash on olimar... there's no magic in that...that's teamwork :O

about the purple pikmin stun...they're slow...and would have to make contact with the IC's...it might eat mallet before it's fatness can do anything...

@dragonblooded- yep...you're quote just got volke'd attacked from the inside!

 

[uhmuzing]

Speaking of teamwork, let's discuss that.

Ice Climbers - Brother and sister and life-long allies. Extremely well coordinated with each other, almost as if its a video game or something.

Pikmin - Extremely loyal to their leader/parental figure, Olimar. Their movement coordination is flawless, able to line up or circle around or shield one another. Obey orders with no hesitiation at all.

Had to detail the pikmin more. In addition, an Ice Climber will be heartbroken if its partner dies. Pikmin die every other day and know nothing else.

Volke only gets stronger....

 

[UncleSam]

Even without being thrown, Pikmin are living, breathing beings that can think for themselves

pikmin are pretty much mindless drones from what I can remember
they work like a hive of bees a group only follows a certain job unless comanded otherwise

 

[uhmuzing]

pikmin are pretty much mindless drones from what I can remember
they work like a hive of bees a group only follows a certain job unless comanded otherwise

Actually, their games occasionally emphasize on their extraordinary survival ability. They are very intelligent as a team or community and are often the predators of a few lesser beings. They're neither at the top or the bottom of the food chain.

 

[Sieguest]

Speaking of teamwork, let's discuss that.

Ice Climbers - Brother and sister and life-long allies. Extremely well coordinated with each other, almost as if its a video game or something.

Pikmin - Extremely loyal to their leader/parental figure, Olimar. Their movement coordination is flawless, able to line up or circle around or shield one another. Obey orders with no hesitiation at all.

Had to detail the pikmin more. In addition, an Ice Climber will be heartbroken if its partner dies. Pikmin die every other day and know nothing else.

Volke only gets stronger....

1. More like you kill one climber and the other gets so flukin mad that it goes bonkers on any and everything in the way...

2. Volke is everywhere...even Chuck Norris fears Volke...

 

[uhmuzing]

@Marthage - Rofl... still rofling...

Okay... anyways, uh, Popo/nana will become deadly when nana/Popo dies, but that doesn't mean he/she will be smarter. In fact, grief will emphasize on your passion and overshadow your judgment and thinking skill.

 

[UncleSam]

2. Volke is everywhere...even Chuck Norris fears Volke...

blasphemy!
since pikmin REALLY think induvidually cant the ICs just run it to get to olimar and CG him?

Spoiler

im trying to take both sides here

 

[uhmuzing]

Eh, I shouldn't have said that. The pikmin shouldn't try to think too individually; they fight best as a team and under a leader.

 

[Sieguest]

@Marthage - Rofl... still rofling...

Okay... anyways, uh, Popo/nana will become deadly when nana/Popo dies, but that doesn't mean he/she will be smarter. In fact, grief will emphasize on your passion and overshadow your judgment and thinking skill.

OR..., Nana/Popo could get mad to the point where they feel nothing anymore...like that anger that just shuts down everything and just says kill...and then Olimar is screwed...the pikmin can do all the gnawing possible...he/she won't feel...it...only Olimar's blood will satiate the grief stricken climber..

blasphemy!
since pikmin REALLY think induvidually cant the ICs just run it to get to olimar and CG him?

Spoiler

im trying to take both sides here

No...THIS! IS! VOLKE!

OMG NOT THE CG!!! That's just cruel and unusual punishment for the spaceman....

I see you're putting stuff for both sides...

Spoiler

this learn both sides is really working

where is this gonna go?

 

[uhmuzing]

OR..., Nana/Popo could get mad to the point where they feel nothing anymore...like that anger that just shuts down everything and just says kill...and then Olimar is screwed...the pikmin can do all the gnawing possible...he/she won't feel...it...only Olimar's blood will satiate the grief stricken climber..

yes, its true that she won't really feel injuries, but remember what happens when you let your guard down and subjected to the awful morning breath of white pikmin.

 

[Sieguest]

yes, its true that she won't really feel injuries, but remember what happens when you let your guard down and subjected to the awful morning breath of white pikmin.

hammered........................................

Spoiler

OMG IT'S A ONE LINER!!!!

 

[UncleSam]

I like this thread better than the tier list discussion nao (cant wait till i get mah computer fixed so i don have to write on this PSP browser) ICs have equipment offering protection while pikmin cling to there targets and bash them with their stems. wouldnt IC parkas offer some protection? and cant they take off said parka and hit the pikmin still clinging on to the parka?

 

[justaway12]

Wait, i'm sorry if this has been mentioned ( I'm too tired to look back right now), but won't the Ice Climbers only have trouble with the Purple and White Pikimen, since the others aren't going to do alot, didn't Kirbywizard say that.

Red=not effected by fire, Yellow= not effected by lightning, etc.

I'm also not sure if this is resolved but since Adumbrodeus said, if they are human sized they would be crushed by their own exoskeleton (sp?) doesn't that mean, that they would not actually do much damage, at their own sie?

 

[Sieguest]

I like this thread better than the tier list discussion nao (cant wait till i get mah computer fixed so i don have to write on this PSP browser) ICs have equipment offering protection while pikmin cling to there targets and bash them with their stems. wouldnt IC parkas offer some protection? and cant they take off said parka and hit the pikmin still clinging on to the parka?

yes, but that leaves alot of open time for the IC's to get attacked by a possible second squad....and yes with the parka there is some protection....rolling may be more advisable,that or using a teamwork spin...

yes it's been mentioned justaway 12, but it's good you brought it up here...new people joining the discussion might not go back to the beginning of where this discussion started... or even just back the few pages where kirbywizard was...

 

[uhmuzing]

Yes. I think the pikmin would do their best to climb up and poke "fun" at their faces. The Ics can knock them away, yes. But there are a good number of them. really, Olimar's best offenses are throwing purples (bowling balls to the face) and trying to throw whites (cough syrup anyone?).

 

[justaway12]

I thought there were only 10? so only 4 pikimen.

 

[UncleSam]

Wait, i'm sorry if this has been mentioned ( I'm too tired to look back right now), but won't the Ice Climbers only have trouble with the Purple and White Pikimen, since the others aren't going to do alot, didn't Kirbywizard say that.

Red=not effected by fire, Yellow= not effected by lightning, etc.

I'm also not sure if this is resolved but since Adumbrodeus said, if they are human sized they would be crushed by their own exoskeleton (sp?) doesn't that mean, that they would not actually do much damage, at their own sie?

yes
they're decoys
and I think we've forgotten about the human sized part,
pikmin are soft-bodies(they're freakin plants)and you say they're human sized but they are not
Olimar is just really short, like REALLY short his species grew extremely smallthe planet they live on must have low oxygen levels.

Spoiler

why am I getting scientific on a video game character discussion?

 

[D3w3y]

I think the mallets and boots should be able to crush or seriously damage a good amount of the pikmin due to their tiy size and wieght. No matter how well Olimar throws his pikmin it still is not too tough to bat them out of the air.

In comparative size it would be like a football being thrown at a human, I'm pretty sure most people who have any skill would not have a tough time batting the football away with a mallet.

It's a question of weather or not the ICs know that the white pikmin are the most dangerous and can concentrate on killing them first and dealing with the lesser threats after.

I think we all agree that if the ICs get past the pikmin they will tear Olimar apart being a 2v1 fight and holding mallets.

 

[Sieguest]

Yes. I think the pikmin would do their best to climb up and poke "fun" at their faces. The Ics can knock them away, yes. But there are a good number of them. really, Olimar's best offenses are throwing purples (bowling balls to the face) and trying to throw whites (cough syrup anyone?).

then they'll just do what their jab would kinda do. Olimar can only throw one at a time (although he does throw pikmin rapidly...) if it's an rapid assault, then a spin shall suffice to rid them...
The IC's could also extend the rope between them on the ground...(the rope can be used for more than just something like belay....creativeness...ftw...)
and closeline the pikmin...

a reminder: in the OP it is stated that Olimar and his pikmin are enlarged to brawl size to keep the battle from being one sided...

@justaway 12- there are 10 pikmin, but only 4 are potentially dangerous...the other 6 may be used for some other device of strategy...

 

[adumbrodeus]

in game there are enemies that can go through the posion cloud unharmed...they'd have to breath it in....a simple holding of breath and clearing through the cloud will suffice....and I still don't think the IC's will stoop to eating pikmin yet... (I really like the way uncle sam explained it...)

You can't hold your breath indefinately. What I'm suggesting is that the white pikmin have the ability to breath out persistant coulds of poisonious gas capable of causing death/crippling injuries for a while after actually being released.



This IS the big issue for this thread right now, because if they can, it's ivysaur all over again, and right now it seems like they can.

@adumbrodeus- darn........ you're siding with olimar? I think Dragonblooded is behind this....>.>

You should know how I work by now, I'm around when something game-changing comes up that people aren't paying attention to, I let people know.

And yes he is behind it, I didn't think the white pikmin were important till he posted the vid.

Spoiler

why am I getting scientific on a video game character discussion?

Spoiler

cause that's what the thread is about.

 

[UncleSam]

a reminder: in the OP it is stated that Olimar and his pikmin are enlarged to brawl size to keep the battle from being one sided...

@justaway 12- there are 10 pikmin, but only 4 are potentially dangerous...the other 6 may be used for some other device of strategy...

human size would be kind of large compared to brawl size esp. IC's size
the ice climbers are either
1)*******
2)kids
saying pikmin are much larger than the IC's misporportions everything and totally wipes clean what we've been talking about.
and Olimar isn't technically a human >.< the planet he crashlands on is earth the human race is long extinct

 

[uhmuzing]

And yes he is behind it, I didn't think the white pikmin were important till he posted the vid.

I feel important! And I agree, that is the issue right now. I wasn't really thinking about a consistent stream of toxins.

 

[justaway12]

and I think we've forgotten about the human sized part,
pikmin are soft-bodies(they're freakin plants)and you say they're human sized.

I didn't, it was said earliear on in the thread that JOE! would resize them or something like that.

and as Ambrodeus said.

Bugs are able to carry a lot reletive to their body weight because their exoskeleton is really efficent at small sizes by allowing to have a more efficent muscular system, but at human size an equivilent system would crush them. Keeping that in mind, is it realistic for pikmen to be that strong?[/strong]

So he is either a dead big pikimen or a somewhat heavy pikimen, and how good would Olimars aim be, if he was regular sized and with Pikimen the size of 5 pence? (open question, not really directed toowards you, or sarcastic or anything, just in case ^_^)

but they are not
Olimar is just really short, like REALLY short his species grew extremely smallthe planet they live on must have low oxygen levels.

Yes small enough for the ICs to squash unless normal size, which he is.

Spoiler

why am I getting scientific on a video game character discussion?

Spoiler

It's something kind fun to do ^_^.

 

[Sieguest]

You can't hold your breath indefinately. What I'm suggesting is that the white pikmin have the ability to breath out persistant coulds of poisonious gas capable of causing death/crippling injuries for a while after actually being released.

Holding their breath long enough to bash the pikmin then move out that shouldn't take too long...plus with how small it is, how far could it actually expell the poison?

This IS the big issue for this thread right now, because if they can, it's ivysaur all over again, and right now it seems like they can.

yes, but Ivysaur was way more sturdy, and posion powder a bit everywhere than the puffs of the pikmin...

if the white pikmin were used as kind of a defensive to create a posion wall around olimar than that would be a way more safe than to try and be offensive with it in my thinking...

You should know how I work by now, I'm around when something game-changing comes up that people aren't paying attention to, I let people know.

And yes he is behind it, I didn't think the white pikmin were important till he posted the vid.

That dirty rotten no good.....

 

[uhmuzing]

if the white pikmin were used as kind of a defensive to create a posion wall around olimar than that would be a way more safe than to try and be offensive with it in my thinking...

Or they could do both...

That dirty rotten no good.....

Rofl..........

 

[UncleSam]

So he is either a dead big pikimen or a somewhat heavy pikimen, and how good would Olimars aim be, if he was regular sized and with Pikimen the size of 5 pence? (open question, not really directed toowards you, or sarcastic or anything, just in case ^_^)

imma answer it anyway
(this is cool)in the instruction manual of Pikmin 1(just took it out) olimar is the size of a quarter just over an inch and pikmin are about an inch exactly so pikmin aren't that small compared to olimar, but to the IC's yes they're small and his accuracy(sp? no spell check) he'd have to throw them over hand like a hand axe so it would be pretty accurate, but he is facing two moving targets.

Yes small enough for the ICs to squash unless normal size, which he is.

eeven when enlarged to brawl size he's small compared to a more human-like character like Link/ganon/jesus

Spoiler

captain falcon

It's something kind fun to do ^_^.

i no rite?

Holding their breath long enough to bash the pikmin then move out that shouldn't take too long...plus with how small it is, how far could it actually expell the poison?

I had said that earlier the white pikmin would have to be all up in IC's face to have the toxins to really work
... the white pikmins toxins are pretty game changing but are very limited the pikmin would have to be injested or they would have to breathe directly into the IC's mouths both of which would be nigh impossible to do because of the fact of "why would the IC's eat pikmin anyway?"

oh and also about the fact of the IC's trying to figure out which pikmin are the biggest threat:
they're going to see the white pikmin constantly expelling toxins
whenever the white pikmin breathe toxins excape from their mouths.

 

[Sieguest]

Or they could do both...

well...if they go offensive with then the Ice Climbers just take a deep breath and hold it and charge in for a quick hammer beat...or if they come offensive there is always going over them as an option of getting to Olimar...

Rofl..........

you just think you're soooooo funny don't you?

@uncle sam- there we go...

 

[UncleSam]

all the IC's need are spikes on the ends of their hammers and they'd win hands down

 

[uhmuzing]

There is a risk involved in heading into the poison. Even if they hold their breath, they can be forced to breath by the impact of an attack or otherwise trapped in the toxic area.

Regarding that this isn't realistic to make a poison giant-cloud, if they fall (ICs that is), a white pikmin can lean over and breath in their face. Its not impossible if they're stunned or grounded by a purple.