Team Battles: Why is Friendly Fire ON preferred and standard?

[MorpheusVGX]

I want to discusss this with the smash world community. Why is this? Friendly Fire OFF is much more interesting.

Friendly Fire OFF Cons:

- Missile (one character) plus shield (the other) abuse.
- 2 vs 1 abuse.
- You cannot help your partner recover by hitting him.
- I guess there can be deadly (and broken) combinations.

Friendly Fire OFF Pros:

- Awesome combined combos.
- Combined specials.
- Suggests real teamwork. To keep together with your partner to maximize offense and defense.
- Prevents abusive damage recovery by Ness and Lucas.
- I guess there can be deadly (and broken) combinations. But they can lead to dual tactics against them.
- If your playing with items, you won't damage your partner with final smashes, or pokeballs, etc. Your partner can fight alongside all of this, which is interesting and fun.
- The experience is much more different than FFA.

Still. Friendly Fire ON seems more like a FFA battle with a bit of change. By having friendly fire OFF, there are a lot of new interesting things that can be seen and done. Don't you agree? There should be at least some tournaments like this. Who is with me?

 

[Moon/Sun]

Whichever suits me fine but I prefer it off. I tend to hurt my partner a lot when they get in my way. I think in tournaments the decision to have it on or off should be up to the players.

 

[Proverbs]

I want to discusss this with the smash world community. Why is this? Friendly Fire OFF is much more interesting.

Friendly Fire OFF Cons:

- Missile (one character) plus shield (the other) abuse.
- 2 vs 1 abuse.
- You cannot help your partner recover by hitting him.
- I guess there can be deadly (and broken) combinations.

Friendly Fire OFF Pros:

- Awesome combined combos.
- Combined specials.
- Suggests real teamwork. To keep together with your partner to maximize offense and defense.
- Prevents abusive damage recovery by Ness and Lucas.
- I guess there can be deadly (and broken) combinations. But they can lead to dual tactics against them.
- If your playing with items, you won't damage your partner with final smashes, or pokeballs, etc. Your partner can fight alongside all of this, which is interesting and fun.
- The experience is much more different than FFA.

Still. Friendly Fire ON seems more like a FFA battle with a bit of change. By having friendly fire OFF, there are a lot of new interesting things that can be seen and done. Don't you agree? There should be at least some tournaments like this. Who is with me?

Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean about a lot of the cons you've listed.

Secondly, the pros I have some problems with.

"Awesome Combined Combos"--How does friendly fire limit this? You just need to be all the more aware of your surroundings.

"Combined Specials"--This sounds like the same thing as the above, and thus I have about the same response.

"Suggests Real Teamwork"--False, I would say. Real teamwork comes about with friendly fire on. This way you have to be completely attuned to your partner and can't just spam attacks.

"Prevents Abusive Damage Recovery by Ness and Lucas"--What do you mean by this?

"Deadly tactics & Broken Combinations"--Same question. You must elaborate as to why this is a pro or con and what you mean by deadly tactics or broken combinations. You've put this on both sides--explain what you mean.

"If you're playing with items..."--Friendly fire is usually a tournament preferred choice. And if not tournament, then it's usually a choice made by those who engage in competitive play with their friends. Both tournaments and those people do not use items. This is kind of irrelevant.

"The Experience is Much Different than FFA"--It is the same for when Friendly Fire is on. You have clearly defined teams and work together. This is different than a 'Free For All' as it is not free-for-all.

Much of what you said was either opinionated or unclear. Please be more specific. You claimed that there is more teamwork with friendly fire off. This is very untrue. All that does is make you think less. You don't have to be aware of what your partner is doing and can do whatever you want, you don't have to keep an eye on your partner if he's trying to recover as you can't really help anyway, and you could just as easily play the match as a free for all by just randomly spamming attacks (as you won't accidentally hit your partner).

Friendly fire on makes you think about what you're doing. You need to work with your partner as there is real threat to not doing that. Friendly fire off just allows you to not work with your partner at no expense to you.



Now if you're talking about your own personal preference, you can play with friendly fire off. It just won't be done that way for competitive play.


[By the way, if I have mixed up friendly fire being on or off and you're confused, you can easily tell by the context. Sorry if there are typos in that.]

 

[Samochan]

>_>

Let's have falco (or some other character with stage control via projectile) and snake on same team with team attack off.

Yea, it doesn't work.

On teams you're supposed to have a teamwork that includes not hitting your partner and pulling off awesome team combinations, not because you can hit simultaneously without any regards of your partner but because you space and time your attacks so well. Team attack off is not teamworking, far from it. Team attack On on the other hand need both players to be adept in team play, otherwise they keep hitting each other and their combination simply does not work.

And items do not apply to most tournaments as well, only selected few host items on tournaments. It also takes a lot more skill to both time and space your attack and look for the opening or set up to use your final smash without hitting your teammate, as well as the ability to evade such final smashes and other moves too in case you're on the way.

 

[JasonLovesKelsey]

"Prevents Abusive Damage Recovery by Ness and Lucas"--What do you mean by this?

He means it prevents Ness or Lucas using PSI Magnet while they're opponent uses energy atttacks to purposely heal them.

 

[Yawgmoth]

basically, you want camping/spamming to be as easy in 2v2 as in 1v1, excellent idea.

 

[Proverbs]

He means it prevents Ness or Lucas using PSI Magnet while they're opponent uses energy atttacks to purposely heal them.

Oh wow, I totally didn't realize that at first. I usually read the word 'Recovery' meaning someone getting back to the stage XD That's why I was ridiculously confused.

 

[Bud]

with team damage on you can charge up 3 samus b moves into G&W down b giving a fatal bucket everytime, is that fair? Also lucas and ness can down b and get back all their health with the help of their teammate. again not fair.

 

[~rh]

basically, you want camping/spamming to be as easy in 2v2 as in 1v1, excellent idea.

And this is essentially why I prefer FF on myself.

if you have on Lucas in the corner camping, and a... I dunno... Wolf, fighting up front, I think that it's a little unfair to the other team who has to avoid PK's and a strong character while the Wolf isn't getting hurt by anything.

To me it just wouldn't be fair.

 

[ShinKaigan]

with team damage on you can charge up 3 samus b moves into G&W down b giving a fatal bucket everytime, is that fair? Also lucas and ness can down b and get back all their health with the help of their teammate. again not fair.

Well while that does sound abusive in theory, it is incredibly hard to do in an actual match. In a recent doubles tournament I attended, my friend and I were doing a Wolf + G&W combination and it was incredibly difficult to find the time to fill up my bucket. There is no way your opponent will let you stand around idly with your bucket out.

Even if you managed to kill one (or both) of them, on smaller stages they'll be right back in your face in a few seconds. Admittedly, when we did manage to fill the bucket it had great results but it was fairly infrequent and hardly the "OMG HAX" tactic you are making it out to sound like.

 

[~L~]

I believe both options have merits... I agree with Moon/Sun. It should be the player's decision.

 

[MysticKenji]

Metaknight + Metaknight.

>_>

 

[MookieRah]

- Missile (one character) plus shield (the other) abuse.
- 2 vs 1 abuse.
- I guess there can be deadly (and broken) combinations.

Ironically, you posted yourself why Team Attack is on. There are just dumb combinations that would dominate all forms of play by having it off. Also, I'd list a lot of your "pros" as cons myself, and I could list a lot more cons to TA On than you listed as well.

 

[Proverbs]

with team damage on you can charge up 3 samus b moves into G&W down b giving a fatal bucket everytime, is that fair? Also lucas and ness can down b and get back all their health with the help of their teammate. again not fair.

No one but narcoleptic opponents would let you do this. And in that case, I'm pretty sure you'd win anyway.

 

[D3w3y]

I think a team battle tournament would be interesting. Doubt there would be as many participants though.

 

[D3w3y]

And this is essentially why I prefer FF on myself.

if you have on Lucas in the corner camping, and a... I dunno... Wolf, fighting up front, I think that it's a little unfair to the other team who has to avoid PK's and a strong character while the Wolf isn't getting hurt by anything.

To me it just wouldn't be fair.

Umm the other team can do the same thing too so it is fair actually.

Even if the other team doesnt camp they would have a 2v1 on wolf and guess who's winning that.

 

[25%Cotton]

one of the biggest cons to "friendly fire off": zelda's din's fire spam.

i believe that's all i need to say.

 

[Samochan]

one of the biggest cons to "friendly fire off": zelda's din's fire spam.

i believe that's all i need to say.

Must try next time.

Zelda + Ike/Snake/Meta anyone?

 

[aznegglover]

Why are they On anyway?

 

[Blackbelt]

There are too many possible character combinations that would break the game if FF was off.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

I thank for your opinions. There are things that I don't think are needed to be explain, If you could think a bit (no offense).

Combos - It is obvious that you can do combos you cannot with Friendly Fire ON. Because they can charge and attack from the same side, or from different sides without hitting themselves.
Combined Specials: How about Fire Fox and Meta Knight Drill one inside of the other? Or Kirby's Swallow combined with Dedede's Rocket Hammer? Get it?

Your point about needed to be more aware of what your partner does.. It is acceptable..It is true. But that often discourages to combine attacks. It divides the fight a lot more. That's why I say that FF On seems like FFA but with one less character you shouldn't hit or attack. The feeling of cohesion. To combine offense, and defend your partner up close. A very diffferent and interesting experience is FF OFF. That's my humble opinion.

 

[Darkurai]

I think a team battle tournament would be interesting. Doubt there would be as many participants though.

lol

Team tournaments have been around for a long time.

 

[Bud]

yes but, filling the bucket is simple with a fox on your team. The way me and my teammate do it is, as soon as we hit one person off the map we gang up on the other guy then quickly shoot the bucket. It does work if you have a strategy to be one on two for a few seconds.

 

[FEJunkie]

Leaving team attack off destroys the point of 2v2 matches. With team attack off the match becomes a contest of "who has the biggest hitbox?". It also promotes camping in 2v2, which is really against the purpose of it. If you leave it off then just imagine all the scrubs who would enter a tourney with Ike and Pit teams. That would destroy the 2v2 competitive scene.

In short, Team attack off just ruins 2v2.

 

[iamthelifeonmars]

i prefer friendly fire on because it prevents excessive spamming. i love teams matches either way though

 

[0RLY]

So you don't get ***** by two Falcos standing and shooting lasers. Or 2 Pikachus alternating dsmash.

 

[fallenangemon0]

FF off = fail

Think of how intense team matchs are when you can actually go off the stage to save your partner if his recovery fails!! ( FF on )

Now, think of getting really good at teams only to loose to 2 snakes just nade-ing and boost smashing.
( FF off )

With FF off, you can just cheese the eff out of things that work decently in 1v1 to a point where it becomes not only annoying, but just insanely difficult to overcome. ( Double short hop laser, Olimar's side B, etc.) all turning off FF will do is turn team matches into spamfest.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

I see... But do not forget that there can be good combinations from both teams. when I played Team battles on Melee, we never experienced any of this. Still, if it is as you say, it would be fun to watch. I would like to promote a wifi team tournament with FF off someday to see all of this.

 

[DTKPch]

The best example I can think of against Team Attack Off comes from Melee:
If you watch a pro Melee doubles video, the team attack on involves real skill. With team attack off, the strategies just become ridiculous. Peach+Marth is a dominant team with team attack on (look at the Newlyweds), but if you turn team attack off, they're just straight up broken. Peach's dsmash spam combined with Marth's fsmash spam essentially makes a tank that you can't get past. The fsmash has a ridiculous hitbox, and the only weakness comes from the lag, which creates an opening afterwards. Of course, the dsmash's high priority, speed, and power eliminate this weakness, making the defense impregnable.

For doubles beginners who haven't figured this out yet, team attack off is fine. It still doesn't require as much awareness as team attack on, but it's not gamebreaking. Once people figure out how to abuse it, however, a good doubles match requires team attack.

 

[uberdylan]

Quite. You say that TA on prohibits "combos," but look at the opposite: TA off enable combos. And not the good kind of skill-oriented combos. The I'll-stand-back-and-spam-while-you-distract-him type of combos.

That's not teamwork. That's camping. Nobody wants that.

 

[Corigames]

That's dumb. Everyone would cry if they had to face two Snakes that didn't have to worry about Friendly fire, or Pits, Metas, Falcos, etc. You might as well throw items on to and make it fast Brawl.

NEW COMPETITIVE STANDARD LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Gory snake]

Friendly Fire off takes all the skill out of team battles, I used to play with friendly fire off but after recently participating in a tournament (2nd in doubles) I realised that it takes more teamwork and skill to work with your team mate with FF on rather than off