Teams Tierlist

[StripesOrBars]

Kirby is the worst character in the game. No way around it.

You can give your crappy reasons as to why he is a good, or even a semi-good character, but in the end, they do not justify the tremendous waste of a block he takes up on the character select screen.

Then again, you have the easy version of Smash(PAL), so it makes Kirby look not as bad(still the worst character, but not as bad).

Here in the states, we have chain grabbing Shieks, Falcos and Marths that have Spikes---Do you know what a spike is??????---Fox's with a way over powered upsmash, and when DK is hit in his Up B move, he loses his charge punch.

But yeah, Kirby is horrendous. Does anyone else think Kirby sux?

Edit: And I don't know anyone who plays Kirby due to his horrendousness, so no I have not been "kirbycided" or whatever.

 

[Vall3y]

should be basicly like the singles tier list
just with peach higher, falco lower, ganon and jiggs higher, and maybe some other wierd chars (like pikachu.. sounds interesting)

 

[exarch]

Allright Doodah, I put a lot of thought into my list when i was bored as hell in class today... so here we go.

Marth Peach Fox
Falco CF Jiggs Samus
Sheik Ganon Link Icys
Pika Mario Doc Roy Luigi
Zelda M2 Ness Yoshi GW
Pichu DK Kirby Bowser YLink

Link might be a little high... but i'd be willing to intelligently debate this if anyone is up for it.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness is higher, and I'm not saying that just because I use him.

 

[Nike]

Marth Peach Fox
Falco CF Jiggs Samus
Sheik Ganon Link Icys
Pika Mario Doc Roy Luigi
Zelda M2 Ness Yoshi GW
Pichu DK Kirby Bowser YLink

does this go in order like 1 marth 2 peach ... so forth?

cuz if it does i see some problems, mainly ganon so low and falco so high.

i would also like to know why u think young is last, not saying ur wrong i'm just curious why.

 

[Ignatius]

Off the top of my head the first thing I see is that I would flip Shiek and Samus, Shiek can needle to save a teammate, has good recovery, can kill well, and a good grab game for setting up team combo hits. Samus recovery is good but can leave your teammate alone on the stage too long, and cant fully abuse her ranged game in teams.

 

[Gelton]

Why don't you make a REAL teams tier list instead of opinionating it? I can't believe how many people don't know that tiers are decided by tournament play (who wins, who loses), not by whos potentialy better in teams. Someone needs to do this on tournament results, not on who you THINK is good in teams. It applies the same with the regular tier list.

 

[Mcscruff]

Peach
Marth
Gannon
Fox
Falcon
Pikachu

Thats the list.

exarch: Peach is also the best in teams because she actually has time to pulloff edgeguarding.

Pikachu? replace pikachu with sheik

 

[StripesOrBars]

Peach is better than Marth in teams.

Falco is close to horrendous.

Fox is in the top 5 or 6 not top 3.

Gannon is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low.

And I completely forgot about Shiek's brokenness in teams.

Top

Peach
Marth
Gannon

High

Fox
CF
Shiek
Jiggz
Samus
ICs

Mid

Falco(unless with a Fox)
Pika(what was I thinking)
Link
DK
Luigi
Ness

Low

Doc
Mario
G&W
Roy
Zelda
Young Link

Garbage

Yoshi
Pichu
Mew2
Bowser
Kirby

There ya go. Kirby sux so he's last.

 

[<π]

garbage? yoshi can aid recovery with eggs his Dsmash is a solid kill move, he's harder to gimp kill then a lot of other characters.

Pichu has many of the same percsa as pika but with the amazing f-smash.

The rest I'll agree on, they are a lot tougher to use well in teams, bowser can't spam his best moves, mewtwo is big and clumbsy and will die fast if focused on.

Kirby I'm mixed, while he may be easy to kill he actually does have a few very good kill moves and does just as well gimping and helping partners recovering off the stage as jiggs, the ability to steal powers may also come in relitively handy if you are playing people with solid ranged attacks...

On the stage though... yeah he sucks... easy to combo by everyone so easy to kill of quickly...


You know what they say one man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

[Artymus]

whoever suggested GW was good in any way should be shot.

Agreed. Peach is the best teams character, period.
I dont think I could see a very good doubles team.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Yeah, there's no such thing as a good doubles team.

 

[exarch]

Note: Teams is FAR more balanced than singles, as such the distances between characters in the tier list are smaller.

My list is based on what I believed to be qualifications for a good teams character. Those Major factors i took into account are:
Survivability
Ability to do large damage in short amounts of time
Having a solid kill move
Ability to gimp the opponent
Partner dependant

Less emphasized:
Ability to handle two opponents at once
Ability to save partner

I also tried to take into account performance in tournaments. I am no expert in this field.

Now Marth is above Peach for several reasons:
-Has a much better kill move
-Can edgeguard in teams better than anyone
-More liable to gimp the opponent
-Does comparable damage to peach
-Survives decently (not quite as well as peach)
Most Importantly
-Is not teammate dependant. Marth can team with anyone and have a great team. Peach needs to shy away from those without kill moves. Marth can basically fill in whatever function he is needed for in teams. This is why Marth is the best.

Ness is where he is because he's a mediocre teams partner. His best bet is to pick a teammate with an energy projectile, which severely limits his partner choices. Plus saving your teammate with upb begs to be punished HARD.

Falco is so high because he's still amazingly good. He does absurd amounts of damage, can gimp as well as anyone, has great kill moves, and is very good in 2 v 1 situations. Plus he is not partner dependant. On top of that he can intervene in the other 1v1 (assuming as split) without ever leaving his. Even though he can die fast, he shouldn't be. A falco in doubles must be more careful. He's still REALLY good.

Ganon is lower because he's GOOD definitely, but he's not great. His huge hitboxes make attacking risky, and more often than not, he's a big danger to the team he's on. He lives well, but this does not mean he wont get gimped by ANYONE else. Ganon in teams does not do much work (from my experience). He just needs to sit back and watch his teammate do the work... and not kill his teammate. Remember him being so "low" is still high because teams tiers are much closer.

YLink is terrible in teams. His typical playstyle of run away and projectile will not work in a teams match. His main damaging methods (projectiles) now put his partner at risk. On top of that, he is decently easy to gimp and BLOWS at killing people. Therefore in teams, YLink has terrible damage, decent (at best) survivability, terrible at killing people, and has no good gimps. This is why YLink is the worst teammate ever.

Oh and M2 does not die in teams. Ever. That's why he's good.

Doodah: I'll pick on what I disagree with in your list in my next post here.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Ugh, I don't feel like justifying myself right now.

You win for now Exarch.

Edit: However, Ganon is just like Marth in teams. Ganon's hitboxes aren't even as big as Marth's. Ganon just has alot more power all around, unless Marth is Tip happy.

 

[exarch]

Ganon is like Marth on teams. He is not very teammate dependant, although I'm not sure how he'd work with another kill move character.

The difference between Ganon and Marth is that if Marth mistakenly hits his teammate with a move, the teammate is not necessarily dead. Ganon is much more of a threat to his team.

Plus I think Marth can and will do more damage in a shorter amount of time. ganon gets his 2 hit comboes, while marth still gets away with his 6 hits.

On top of that Marth is far better in a 2 v 1 situation than Ganon.

I do think Ganon is good, I'm not absolutely sure about all of my tier list, but I think CF is significantly better than him in teams. I can elaborate if you wish.

 

[<π]

heh, was what I said so incorect it was worth ignoring?

 

[controlfreak7]

Why are some people going off terms of recovery, the occurence and opportunity only comes every so often. If people put such though into recovery then what about falco? Jump off stage and shine your team mate =P or shl them when they need it.

Peach is on top of top that is fact
ICs don't even have a spot.
Sheik is up there and I think he has been put way below where he belongs. He should be lowest on top or high in upper
Ganon is gay so he is on top.
I think Marth is somewhere in high but there is something about him that doesn't make him quite suitable for top.

I know fox should be on the list just not where cause he can die easily, but he does really well. I say low-mid upper or on top of middle.

I don't know about falco though he should have a spot on that list. It doesn't sound logical that he does well, but he does. (refer to Taj+Forward)

But I think this tier list is different than the singles tier list in that the singles tier list has a more realistic standpoint of characters actually chosen while this tier list seems to go off potential for the most part. I don't see a lot of Ganons, Jiggs, Links, or Samuses being played in teams to even be considered in the top two tiers. Not that they don't exist or aren't good but I don't think we've seen enough of them.

I do see there is a lot more link and samus have to offer in teams because link's laggy but good moves (such as up-b) are more usable and less risky. I see them both work well as spamming characters in some cases.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I quit this game.

 

[exarch]

<3, I agree with your points, except M2 does not die. However, I think the other characters I have above them are better than them in teams. Are you saying these characters should be moved one way or another?

Control Freak, Remember when I said I'd be willing to discuss it INTELLIGENTLY? come back when you've looked up the definition for that word.

Doodah, Keep arguing, we gotta hash this out. Plus you're the best other debater in here. I'm quite enjoying this.

 

[FalseFalco]

Too many variables.

For instance, falco ***** all when paired with certain characters, but loses to other pairs regardless. And those pairs lose to other pairings.

 

[Gelton]

A Tier list is based off of tournament results...

 

[controlfreak7]

<3, I agree with your points, except M2 does not die. However, I think the other characters I have above them are better than them in teams. Are you saying these characters should be moved one way or another?

Control Freak, Remember when I said I'd be willing to discuss it INTELLIGENTLY? come back when you've looked up the definition for that word.

Doodah, Keep arguing, we gotta hash this out. Plus you're the best other debater in here. I'm quite enjoying this.

I dunno what I did wrong? Said that assistance in recovery shouldn't be taken into a lot of consideration?

1. having good understanding or a high mental capacity; quick to comprehend, as persons or animals: an intelligent student.
2. displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment: an intelligent reply.
3. having the faculty of reasoning and understanding; possessing intelligence: intelligent beings in outer space.

This isn't a matter of intelligence as much as it is evidence or experience. O btw I looked up the definition cause that is what you asked me to do, u didn't tell me to learn anything from it that I don't already know =).

A Tier list is based off of tournament results...

Apparently not this one besides peach. I at least don't hear much about many Ganons placing high in tournaments.

Speaking of which shouldn't this list be made by pairs and not by individual characters?

Too bad Doodah quit because of a team tiers topic.

 

[ResidentWaffle]

This is what I think the tier list should be but im not that sure about the lower tiers.
High Tier
Marth
Peach

Top Tier
Fox
Sheik
Jigglypuff

High Tier
Captain Falcon
Falco
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf
Samus
Roy
Luigi

Middle Tier
Doctor Mario
Mario
Link
Young Link
Zelda
Ness

Low Tier
Pikachu
Kirby
Mr. Game and Watch
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Pichu

Factors that influenced my decison:
1)Move Speed and Range
2)Recovery
3)Move damage
4)Grab Prioity(Useful for moves like grab+Up smash)
5)Character movement speed
6)How good shield is (like how horrible GoW's is)

Reasons for characters up to Samus:
1:Marth: F-Tilt is tooo good in teams range is great. Marth also has a great horizontal recovery and high priority grabs.

2each: Best horizontal recovery in the game, D-Smashes own and do too much damage.

3:Fox: Very vesitile, great recovery, Up-smash is fast, has a lot of knockback and can be used with teamate grab combos. Also has the the fastest move in the game the shine, which can sometimes set up shine spikes or double shine spikes.

4:Sheik: Fast character movement, F-air comes out fast, needles can be used to help teamate recover, has one of the highest proirty grabs and is one of the easiest characters to set up 2 on 1 grabs.

5:Jigglypuff: Not as high as many people think because of horrible damage resitance but has great recovery, can aid teamate in recovering with U-air, and can do rest combos.

6:Falco: The only thing really bad about falco is his horrible recovery and reduced laser functionality due to friendly fire besides that he has; His down air the best spike in the game, fast shine for combos, and while lasers are reduced they are still somewhat decent for approach.

7:Captain Falcon: Great movement speed, great move speed and knockback with knee, but bad recovery.

8:Ice climbers: Great when together but when seperated they are in trouble and since they are more easily seperated in teams it reduces their usefulness. But when they are together the good things are; fast damaging D-smash, Great movement with wavedash, best grabs in the game and great recovery

9:Samus: Missles would be good if not for friendly fire, Samus's recovery may be good but its main problem is it is too slow so when you are trying to recover the other team can just double team your teammate for awhile. Besides that samus has a high knockback and fast d-smash, and N-air with high prority and range.

 

[exarch]

controlfreak, i was mainly pointing out how your justifications were completely illogical... such as:

Peach is on top of top that is fact
ICs don't even have a spot.
Sheik is up there and I think he has been put way below where he belongs. He should be lowest on top or high in upper
Ganon is gay so he is on top.
I think Marth is somewhere in high but there is something about him that doesn't make him quite suitable for top.

I know fox should be on the list just not where cause he can die easily, but he does really well. I say low-mid upper or on top of middle.

I don't know about falco though he should have a spot on that list. It doesn't sound logical that he does well, but he does. (refer to Taj+Forward)

The justifications you gave are not founded. They are just merely a restatement of the original conjecture. Peach is good because she's the best, does not develop the argument at all.

Waffle, I reassessed, and I think Sheik definitely needs to move up in my old list... (cause I'm talking with a crewmate). Your top seems about right... I do have problems with the lower half, but since you said you weren't sure...

Also if we did it by pairs, we'd have 26 squared teams to order. That might take a while. Better to approximate like this i think.

 

[ResidentWaffle]

I think it would be best actually to show combinations because one character complements another. If you have ever watched the OC2 interview with Captain Jack and Isai you know what im talking about when they mention that they tried double sheik, but unlike what they originally thought they were good on teams with another character like falcon/sheik but not together.

 

[controlfreak7]

controlfreak, i was mainly pointing out how your justifications were completely illogical... such as:

The justifications you gave are not founded. They are just merely a restatement of the original conjecture. Peach is good because she's the best, does not develop the argument at all.

Waffle, I reassessed, and I think Sheik definitely needs to move up in my old list... (cause I'm talking with a crewmate). Your top seems about right... I do have problems with the lower half, but since you said you weren't sure...

Also if we did it by pairs, we'd have 26 squared teams to order. That might take a while. Better to approximate like this i think.

Well thank you for explaining yourself, but for the most part how am I any different than DooDah besides the fact that I'm me and he is Doodah?

Peach is better than Marth in teams.

Falco is close to horrendous.

Fox is in the top 5 or 6 not top 3.

Gannon is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low.

And I completely forgot about Shiek's brokenness in teams.

Top

Peach
Marth
Gannon

High

Fox
CF
Shiek
Jiggz
Samus
ICs

Mid

Falco(unless with a Fox)
Pika(what was I thinking)
Link
DK
Luigi
Ness

Low

Doc
Mario
G&W
Roy
Zelda
Young Link

Garbage

Yoshi
Pichu
Mew2
Bowser
Kirby

There ya go. Kirby sux so he's last.

I didn't see any logic in that post, especially cause he made claims such as Kirby sucks without any explanation. I just find it ironic that I'm accused of the exact same thing that DooDah is doing, but I'm getting the **** for it. It is much funnier because I didn't even have to fish for this post it was the first post I saw by him. So besides that he has posted more than me how has he proved himself any better at arguing or proving something than myself?

Well tier lists are usually intended to find the best or top and for that reason, only the higher spots should be taken into consideration. Peach = great with anyone for example, but she isn't going to do nearly as good if you compare having a Mew2 on her team to having a fox on her team. And like I believe someone shared earlier regarding falco doing really well in teams depending on who he is teamed up with.

And cause I spotted what you said about comparing Ganon to Marth let me talk about that for a second. What you are really looking for is who can lead to the faster/easier kill? I think in teams that would be Ganon because a team mate can take away a lot of his cons that he has in singles. These cons are things such as lag or speed.

 

[ResidentWaffle]

here are some of my suggestions:
High Tier
Marth/Peach
Marth/Sheik
Marth/Falcon
Marth/Fox
Fox/Jigglypuff
Peach/Fox
Fox/Falco
Fox/Sheik
Fox/Falcon
Sheik/Captain Falcon
Marth/Jigglyuff

 

[exarch]

Aiight Controlfreak, you're right.
Here's the difference, Doodah's unsupported arguments were appropriate at the time he said them. He questioned my placement, and I explained. You then ignore my explainations and somewhat repeated what Doodah said. So, yes, you did not develop the arguement.

I do agree Sheik should be higher than I had her now.

Also I feel like submitting a different tier list provides more material for me to discuss. It also shows good thought put into the topic.

I was also overly harsh on you at first I apologize for that, as I was out of line.

 

[<π]

<3, I agree with your points, except M2 does not die. However, I think the other characters I have above them are better than them in teams. Are you saying these characters should be moved one way or another?

I'm just saying garbage tier isn't the proper location for them, because as you said in teams character's flaws are often times diminished or thier strengths come through much more clearly.

I don't have enough teams experince to feel comfortable making a list or moving character's around other people's lists. But I have a basic understanding of how all of the cast works and what makes a good teams character, just about everyone has very good points that make them effective in a team game, some like fox or peach just have more than others, or are less situational.

 

[StripesOrBars]

My list is the best, because I said so and its the way God intended the list to be.

Also, in teams, Peach does extremely well vs fast fallers. Combine her with Marth and they counter a Fox/Falco Falcon/Fox Falcon/Falco team. Basically Peach is top with Marth. They're both equaly deadly IMO with Ganon at a close 2nd.

 

[controlfreak7]

Aiight Controlfreak, you're right.
Here's the difference, Doodah's unsupported arguments were appropriate at the time he said them. He questioned my placement, and I explained. You then ignore my explainations and somewhat repeated what Doodah said. So, yes, you did not develop the arguement.

I do agree Sheik should be higher than I had her now.

Also I feel like submitting a different tier list provides more material for me to discuss. It also shows good thought put into the topic.

I was also overly harsh on you at first I apologize for that, as I was out of line.

Then again I didn't read your post or Doodah's and I didn't have to in order to say something.

And thanks for apologizing takes a real man to do something like that.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Marth/Peach
Fox/Falco
....

....hey what about Marth and Ganon O.o

 

[Scamp]

You guys talk too much.

Team tiers are exactly the same as 1vs1 tiers.

If there are any differences they're slight at best.

 

[SOLAR]

I've moved Fox up because of fast kills with uthrow uair and usmash. Moved Samus down due to lack of good kill moves and her projectiles are not as effective in teams. What other edits should be made?

 

[ToP CaT]

I've moved Fox up because of fast kills with uthrow uair and usmash. Moved Samus down due to lack of good kill moves and her projectiles are not as effective in teams. What other edits should be made?

samus is too good in teams

 

[Eggm]

Fox is the best character in teams CLOSELY followed by jigglypuff. Sheik/peach are close contenders the rest suck.

 

[ToP CaT]

ganon and samus are both pretty good that about wraps it up

 

[Proverbs]

Obvious I'd say this, but think about it.

Ness does good in teams. He has a good combo rate. He can also abuse PSI Spamming to keep him alive. His moves have pretty goodsized hitboxes, and his speed serves him well. Also, if you get the chance, you can save your almost KOed partner with PKT. Not to mention when there is one opponent left, he can perform the infinite throw with his partner.

And yes, it is possible to do these things. You just have to make good use of time. Don't go saying "0h wh3n r u g0nNa gET 2 d0 th1s stuFf? N3v3r stoopyd!"
You can do these in battle, and when you do, it can help.

I definitely agree. One time in teams for some reason the person I was fighting either was thrown away from me or something, but his teammate was edgehogging my teammate. I used the second or two I had to throw PKT over to the edge and his teammate didn't even see it coming. My teammate grabbed the edge and we were all right.


P.S. How do you do the infinite throw with Ness? o_O;;

 

[KirbyKaze]

Top
Fox
Puff
Sheik / Peach

If Fox is on your team and their team I think Peach > Sheik by a very, very slim amount because of the 30% d-smashes that allow Fox tech chasing and stupid Fox gimps. If not then I think Sheik is the better partner for every team.

And then some combination of like

Mid
Ganon / Falcon / Marth / Falco

Ganon is good in teams, his knockback is ridiculous, he sets up gimps for his partner stupidly well, his recovery is somewhat fast so his partner's not stuck doing a 2-on-1 for too long and then he has a lot of killing power and is very versatile when it comes to hitting a grabbed opponent. When he's recovering because of his u-air and the nature of his recovery he can often gimp people who get knocked off and still make it back. The drawbacks to Ganondorf are that he sucks against Fox and Sheik in a 1v1, he's kind of slow, he's easily gimped, and he gets team comboed stupidly easy.

Marth is good in teams for support but most people suck at using him in teams. He's mostly there for gimps, support (abusing Marth grab range + Fox U-smash/Jiggs Rest is stupid) and setting up gimps and protecting your teammate when he's doing something gay like gimping with shine spikes (if Fox), offstage combos (jiggs), or something else (sheik). His drawback is that he sucks at 2-on-1s and on his own he doesn't have much killing power.

Falcon is fast and can do stupid things at stupid times and kill really well. But he gets team comboed hard and ***** easily in 1v1 or 2v1 against Sheik and Fox. He's also super easy to gimp. In exchange, he's heavy so for actual recovery if your partner is competent and can protect the ledge for a bit, he can probably recover. He has tons to horizontal knockback so he can get people offstage for gimps a lot. He's also very fast so he's useful for interrupting opponent combos or gimps etc.

Falco can take advantage of people being offstage and gimp them really hard. His lasers aren't as spammable but they're still really, really good for interrupting your opponent gimping and comboing your partner, he has a lot of moves that knock off the stage, and he has a lot of priority. If you can keep him from being gimped excessively and aim your lasers so not to mess up your partners combos and stuff he's pretty good. His problems are that a lot of his strengths (shield pressure, combos, etc) aren't really super valued in teams because his combos take a while for them to rack up damage and he has to commit to shield pressure. He also gets gimped HARD, and can often NOT make it back to the level, which is bad because I think more than anything he's a supporter in teams. Falco also gets grabs a lot. But this is only half good because a lot of times he'll want someone to come do a grab / u-smash or whatever type combo but the partner will be preoccupied so he'll have to use it on his own and his grabs rarely lead to KOs.

There's a big drop below Sheik / Peach but not too bad so they're not worth noting. After Falco I don't even know who'd come next or come close to next or anything >_> IC would probably be in that group (Low) but beyond that who knows. Maybe Pikachu.

 

[Ja]

If this is going to be a team tier list why isn't it pairs? I.E the Peach, CF team is top tier (an example, don't go nuts!), or whatever? We won't have enough knowledge for this to be accurate for a long time, but the original singles tier list wasn't accurate either.

All of the best doubles teams must have a character that is strong in singles because it almost always ends like that. Dual low tier character teams shouldn't make above mid-tier in doubles.

samus is too good in teams

IMO samus is bad in teams because she falls so slow. Pop her up, it's a 2v1 go gangbang the teammate. Her recovery is also very slow, which provides a solid gangbang experience. She also has some terrible 1v1 matchups. Samus might be a decent to good teammate, but she's not excellent.