technical issues with lumpy's fox...

[LumpyCPU...]

i've basically adopted fox as my main.
as soon as i devoted my focus towards fox, all the limitations i felt as a peach main literally disappeared from existence.
i've always liked him and i believe he's the best character in the game. (also i got reeeally tired of peach)
naturally, a large amount of improvement is necessary before i can play fox to absolute perfection and i don't know how to go about some of it.

here are my biggest issues and things that get me grabbed.
any and all tips/criticism are greatly appreciated.

1. i can only shdl if i shine first. when i'm spamming it just looks like i'm trying to be flashy. i can do it without shining but it takes more effort and is less consistent.

2. the distance of my wd out of shine is less than decent. i often come up short when i try to shine wd jab falco or shine wd grab marth.

3. i suck at running usmash at short distances. i often shine usmash instead. for some reason it's more consistent for me but it gives them the opportunity to di better or escape the usmash all to gether.

4. i suck at uairing after they've horizontally di'd my uthrow. i nair/bair instead due to lack of confidence.


p.s. my boredom is equally as responsible for me posting this thread as my will to improve.

 

[iDoLiZeD]

1. Why not just SHL? Instead of SHDL. You'll be able to keep better control, SHDL is flashy but not worth it if you can't do it consistently and if you plan on camping. But IMO, Fox isn't a camper.

2. If they DI away, then it will be hard to grab Marth. But the key is, when you Wavedash, you have to walk out a little.. Hopes that makes sense.

Here is a Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgNhOwdUyt0

3. What do you mean..short distances? Like a dash?

4. Sometimes its good just to Bair or Nair, Most people I know SDI Uair so you got to mix it up. Just go for it! Once you do a few times, it will grow on you.

Hoped I helped :0

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i shl more often than shdl (i fast fall it and it feels safer), but i'd like to be able to control shdl a little better.

and i know about walking a little, i just didn't know i was supposed to depend on that. my wave dashes aren't that good and idk why i posted that because i should just practice to make it better. ha

like, i can run and usmash from across the stage, but when they're closer to me, i usually dash attack on accident or run too far and usmash.

these are all just control issues that should fade with practice/experience.
thanks for the tips and for wasting your time reading this. ha
i just need a lot of fine tuning but i should be fine.

 

[`DNS`]

Well you probably know this but when you wavedash you have a few directions you can do it in.
Optimal distance is represented by the green line while the red ones work but you won't go as far.
The lines are from the center to the possible directions that work.. you obviously can use more than just the exact point i drew as there's a range.. not just a point.
The black lines are from the center to the vertices of the octagon around the joystick.

excuse my crappy artwork

edit: @ #2

 

[Smoke and smash]

I like shdl from long distance maybe once at most, and I switch to shl when I/they approach closer. With fox you can almost shl in their face and get away with it, that isn't as true with shdl. Shdl is too slow and therefor unsafe from a lot of distances, ESPECIALLY if you are using frames to shine first every time. It's ok to not use this at all if you want. Single laser drops are just better overall, and retreating and advancing them are easier and more effective as it's naturally quicker and therefor safer. Most of the time both lasers won't even hit with shdl.

 

[4 Aces]

SHDL Data vs. Every Character - Frame data about SHDL. Made by Shai Hulud. It's an interesting chart. Lumpy, you might want to take a look at this. There's some good things to know in here.

 

[Smilez]

Referring to running up smash over short distances: I find it easier to use quarter circle motion like in street fighter except the motion starts w/ the forward(i.e the dash). By the time you reach the "up" position you have covered just the right distance for that short ranged up smash.

 

[LAX_]

Well you probably know this but when you wavedash you have a few directions you can do it in.
Optimal distance is represented by the green line while the red ones work but you won't go as far.
The lines are from the center to the possible directions that work.. you obviously can use more than just the exact point i drew as there's a range.. not just a point.
The black lines are from the center to the vertices of the octagon around the joystick.

*PICTURE*

excuse my crappy artwork

edit: @ #2

wait is that true lol?
i always thought that to WD farthest its at the diagonal down vertices on the joystick thing (if 0degrees is the vertice at the top, it would be 135degrees).
that's reallllly sad if i didn't know that...guess i've never been WDing full length then.

P.S. Lumpy, i had the same problem for usmashing in short distances. If they are far away, i can easily sprint to them then hit down on the control stick then up on the c-stick and it stops my running animation at that instant.
for short distances, i tried doing that but it 1) either does not work or 2) i am bad at it on short distances. so now to usmash when they are close, i run and hit up on the left stick and up on the c-stick practically at the same time (jump canceling i think). well it works so test that out some.

 

[`DNS`]

^Yeah, I'm 99% sure it is.
I guess you have like 6º from every either way that will yield the same result as if it was dead center... but that's just theory. ;p

@the second thing you said: Hit up on the control stick then on the cstick almost at the same time since fox's jump is so fast. To practice it you could use bowser or someone else with a slow *** jump. It's like jc grab only with cstick instead of Z but since I don't have 2 thumbs on my right hand I can't hit x/y then c-up fast enough.. so I use control stick up for that. Hitting down works at long distances only because you can't crouch out of your dash animation, but you can out of the run. Crouch canceling your run -> anything works. Anyway, at short distances you can sometimes just walk forward and usmash, but (more likely) that won't reach, so dash forward, jump with the joystick and hit c-up.

edit: You can't really control much about the SHDL. Vertical movement is EXTREMELY limited, since you can barely fastfall it (3 frames if timed perfectly). How I reverse SHDL; either pivot SHDL or during the run animation push to the side opposite of where you're going, and SHDL. It comes out fast enough to work (as long as you're fast enough..)

 

[LumpyCPU...]

thanks all of you.

i can't believe i never though about doing jc'd usmashes when i do shineusmashes all the time. (same inputs minus shine)

i usually only shdl on fd from across the stage then i'll switch to ffing shl instead.
i never NEED to shdl, so i should be fine there.

i know about how wding works, i just suck at it. ha
it'll just take some practice before i can wd fast enough with to utilize the best degree to angle the control stick with out airdodging.

again, thanks all of you. i had a TERRIBLE smash day yesterday and i don't know why. it's true about fox being really hard to get consistent with (before you have all the basic techskill down).

 

[Foy]

Its cause you are bad lumpy. Fox ditto sometime.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

of course i'll fox ditto you. hehe

p.s. i've fixed all of these except my wavedashing. (which seems the easiest to fix)
so i'm fine now. yay