Teleporting for Dummies: A New In-progress Ness Stage Guide

[Jiffyboob]

I like Norfair alot. Go for the center platform. It puts you in a great position so start your work from there.
That's really just general advice for everyone since the platforms above protect you and you get alot of freedom for your aerials. Ness can abuse this alot because of our FAir and general great aerial game. Even if they are on the top platforms, you can still hit them with PKT.

Just to reiterate: Center platform should always be the first priority imo.


Now for the stage hazards: The best advice for the lava I can give you is...
For the streams of lava that fly at you, just get out of the way of them. Spotdodging and blocking don't work that I've seen.

Now the lava wave, that can be spotdodged or blocked. Its generally just best to hold down block when it reaches the top of the screen. I'd honestly avoid the capsule because you are vulnerable to hits when the lava passes and before the capsule opens. This is especially true when the capsule is on the higher platforms. Attacks from the bottom can easily hit you.

You should be able to tell when the lava walls from the sides are coming because the screen will pan back, so watch out for that.

The rising lava, well just jump up to higher ground. Sometimes the lava be just below the middle platforms at first then kind of wave over it a little bit. It can hit you this way.

(lol, now that I've typed this all out, I figured there is probably a stage guide somewhere. Oh well.)

 

[Dajayman]

Just another note about Norfair, during the lava wave the easiest/safest way to dodge it is simply using ledge invincibility. Simply grab a ledge and buffer a normal getup from the ledge. The combination of the invincibility frames from the ledge grab and the getup allows for a large window of invincibility to easily dodge the lava wave.

 

[Rockstar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesLZZIu0vI Check out my serious set against Hills, a known midwest pit main. Tips/compliments/criticism/advice appreciated as always. Thanks

 

[Dajayman]

Why?!?!?!

Only post videos in the video thread!!!

 

[Neon Ness]

Rockstar, I even left you a message about that. Come on, now.

 

[Rockstar]

Alright my bad.

 

[PSI.kick]

lolz.

hey so how do you buffer an uair OoS? i saw a post on it one time but i forgot where it was and how to do it.

 

[Dajayman]

Press jump and uair, lol.
Just don't try to uair too soon after the jump or you'll perform a jump-cancel usmash instead.

 

[PSI.kick]

*cough* this isn't the q&a thread. darn all my thread subscriptions.
thanks anyway though.

 

[Rockstar]

Havent posted here in a minute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33cFPlsB7Ks My match against Tatsu's C.Falcon at a tournament. Enjoy

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Video thread. Is for videos. You're posting in the wrong thread.

Also, my favourite CP as Ness is Rainbow Cruise. I'll have full reasoning behind that up later.

 

[Jiffyboob]

Yay, Rainbow Cruise is legit. Gotta love those glitchy FThrows.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, it's all about the shenanigans. One wrong move and your opponent finds themselves in a lose-lose situation against you.

 

[Yink]

I'd like you guys to keep in mind, while I agree RC is fun to CP, really make sure you pay attention to who you're CPing. Be careful.

Also, Rockstar, knock it off. We've told you countless times to post in the Video Thread.

 

[P.I.E.]

....... So if you're fighting a diddy, would Gay Pride Cruise be a good cp? Or would one with suff portruding from the ground, like battlefield, SV, Lylat, PS1, and Ps2 be a better choice?

 

[Rockstar]

Alright my bad Yink. And yeah I usually counterpick final destination, brinstar, or rainbow cruise.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh yeah. Like GaW and MK **** Ness there.

Also don't take Ganon there. You'd be surprised how good the stage can be for him. Contrary to popular belief, Ganon has great vertical movement on moving stages.

But it is the CP in some MUs, Bowser being a prime example of one.

Also never take that ******* Marth there. He'll get a grab somehow on the final part of the stage, and then you lose a stock.

Going to not drop Ness again simply because of Marth. I've got GaW now

Spoiler

who... also loses...

 

[Jiffyboob]

I mean we aren't really supposed to be discussing RC but lol, Ness can do the general strategy of the stage well...
General strat (imo):
1. Stay to the left side of the ship.
2. after the ship crashes and the screen is on the way up, stay lower than your opponent.
3. When it reaches the top stay to the right side.
Repeat.

I play campy, but the general rule holds well. these positions put you to where either, the opponent is forced to approach (1st and 3rd) or they can't punish you for approaching much (2nd)

 

[Yink]

....... So if you're fighting a diddy, would Gay Pride Cruise be a good cp? Or would one with suff portruding from the ground, like battlefield, SV, Lylat, PS1, and Ps2 be a better choice?

PS1 is a great choice, so is PS2 if it's legal.

 

[P.I.E.]

:D yes,! just what I needed to hear x3 I have high hopes for my next tourney tomorrow x3

 

[PSI.kick]

....... So if you're fighting a diddy, would Gay Pride Cruise be a good cp? Or would one with suff portruding from the ground, like battlefield, SV, Lylat, PS1, and Ps2 be a better choice?

I'd think rc would be better because of the fact he has little stage control there, definitely dont go to sv or battlefield if you are cp'ing, starters i'd say bf over sv for the specific matchup because he cant control it as easily (bigger), but its up to you on that one, whichever you prefer as your character.
Imo for a cp you'd be much better off going to brinstar or norfair over RC. just dont go anywhere flat.

 

[Rockstar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-07M8LnI4 One of my tournament matches from awhile ago. Enjoy

OOPS. Wrong thread!

 

[Uffe]

First off, I really love the banner. Funky art. Also, please don't only take my word for it. I'd like to see what other people have to say about this.

BATTLEFIELD

Pages of Discussion: The platforms on the left and right side can force your opponent to approach you. Know that they can do the same if their projectile is better than yours. If you can get them to come to you, great. PK Fire is your friend here if your opponent is having a hard time getting to you while you're under platforms. Watch out if they roll, though. This can be bad for Ness. If they try to get to you through the platform, you can use uair or nair to strike them. Being on the platform itself puts you at a greater risk of getting hit and is advised not to ever roll and limit your blocks while on one.

PK Jump can be used on this stage, but it's a little more difficult to land than it would be on a stage such as Final Destination or anywhere else with open gaps.

Short Summary: Ness is good on this stage. But there are characters who are better against him here. However, not all is lost for the little leaguer. Play your cards right and things should work out for Ness.

Characters to Counter here: It's too basic and neutral for anybody to counter against. Possibly Sonic or Jigglypuff, though.

Characters to Avoid Here: Marth, Snake, Falco, King Dedede, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Link, Ike and Pit. Basically any character that can strike from under a platform without having to really try.

Helpful Points: If your opponent is trying to get you through any of the three platforms and you're able to juggle them in their air with PK Thunder or anything else that might harass them, go for it. I made a player quit doing this against his Jigglypuff. Once they're grounded, things can change. Don't think for a second that Ness can't use his tools on this stage because of the platforms getting in the way. Ness can also use his PK Jibaku through the platforms and at the very tip of the stage floor to strike his opponents out hard! You can also use your Yo-yo to hit your opponent when they're hanging on the edges or use PK Thunder at a distance to force them up.

Overall Rating: Ω Ω Ω Ω Ω 3/5

__________

Smashville

Pages of Discussion: There is only one platform on this stage. It also moves, so you know what that means. Ness likes open areas for his aerials and so he gets to present them here! PK Jibaku could be used here in an interesting manner with the platform, and also used to recover onto. PK Jump can be used here, too. The blastzones I believe are a little closer so KOing your opponent with Ness could be somewhat easy.

Short Summary: It's an open area for Ness to play in. He can use the moving platform to recover onto, blast through with PK Jibaku, spam PK Thunder at a distance while the platform moves, and more. PK Jump can be your friend. Blastzones might be closer to the stage for an easier kill.

Characters to Counter here: Another neutral stage. Possibly Diddy Kong because of the platform you can use.

Characters to Avoid Here: Meta Knight and Snake.

Helpful Points: Use the moving platform to return with your PK Jibaku if the stage isn't safe enough.

Overall Rating: Ω Ω Ω Ω Ω 3/5

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Yoshi's Island

Pages of Discussion: This stage isn't too bad for Ness if you're used to it. But there are some disadvantages while he's here. The sides of the walls make Ness bounce off when he tries to recover from a lower area. You can run up the wall with PK Jibaku if done correctly, though. The Ghost Platform may or may not save you, too. It really depends. If you plan on using PK Fire, do it on the left or right side. The middle will just cancel it out. Try to play around and under the tilting platform and use that platform to your advantage. PK Thunder may come in handy for Ness if used right.

Short Summary: This stage has pros and cons but really depends on how well you are on the stage. Avoid PK Fire if possible and try to bait your opponents here if you can. Avoid getting too close off the stage as it might result in a lost stock.

Characters to Counter here: No idea yet.

Characters to Avoid Here: Characters who are naturally good here.

Helpful Points: If you're going to recover and you know for a fact that you won't make it back, aim for wherever the Ghost Platform normally pops up from. If you're lucky, the Ghost Platform just might come up and you'll be able to land on it, saving that stock of yours. But this is only if you know for a fact you're not going to make it back to the stage.

Overall Rating: Ω Ω Ω Ω Ω 2/5

__________

 

[Eagleye893]

Uh... Uffgay... SV is by far one of ness' best stages... Why would you rate it 3.5?

BF:

Comment about the Platforms to be made one last time: You can FH + Nair > Bair (from below) and land on the platform while allowing the bair hitbox to come out..... Also, FH + Fair > Uair. Using FH aerials to get around and land on different platforms is nice. Think of these as DAS type stuff, but using FH instead of SH and going between platforms.

SV:

Dropthrough aerials when you are on the platform are awesome. Never underestimate it. Just know what you can do and what is bad at a particular situation. Even dropOFF aerials when talking about the platform are really good.

YI(B) is terrible for ness....

 

[Uffe]

Taking the mantle of what Dajayman calls me? XD It's all good. I rated Battlefield 3, actually. The reason I did this is because it's neutral. But as I said in my previous post, don't just take my word for it. I'd like to see what others here have to say about the stages. I'll take your advise into consideration, though.

 

[Eagleye893]

Okay, we've got a set of stages unchanging for a while. Let's get discussing them.


SV is easily our best starter stage.
YI (B) is our worst starter stage.
Lylat is highly character dependent.
BF is similar to Lylat, but it is more close to being the second best starter than Lylat is.
FD is our second worst starter stage.

Brinstar is actually very character dependent, but it is a close second to the other stages in being our best stage.
Delfino is the best. I'll give a full analysis of it later.
Pictochat is our worst next to PS2. High ceilings are bad and there's nothing helping ness on PS2 (air stage is actually annoying with our aerials).
Other CP Stages that could be good:
Halberd -- the fact that the flying stage is a platform is allowing a ton of stuff with mindgames and upward poking with aerials from below. Also, bair/uair craziness.
Frigate -- Ness with his DJ can't be gimped on the right side of the stage (unless in the absolute corner and hit with MK's dair. The platforms can help you on the secondary transformation and the platforms all around are of good height an placement. I like the sloping solid stage below the platform on the second transfomation.

 

[Neon Ness]

This has slowly been sliding down the page for a while, so maybe we should start this up again.

Battlefield and Smashville had fairly thorough discussions, so I've linked to them in the OP. But besides those, discussion was pretty disorganized. We had a bunch of small discussions about a bunch of stages. For someone reading this guide it's probably pretty confusing and not too helpful; it's better to focus on one stage at a time to compile relevant info in one place.

From here on out we should allot one week to a stage, and then keep things moving. If we absolutely run out of things to add we can probably move on early. We'll run through the neutrals-- Battlefield, Smashville, Final D, Lylat, and Yoshi's Island (Brawl)-- then the CPs--Halberd, Brinstar, Castle Siege, Delfino, Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat, PS1, PS2, and Rainbow Cruise.

Since we've already done BF and SV, we'll pick up with...

Final Destination​

Just a few basic things of my own to add. I dislike this stage for one main reason: a long, uninterrupted plane is just asking for infinites and locks. Characters like DDD and Marth can cause a good deal of damage across FD with a single grab and force Ness offstage, which I find especially bad against those two. Diddy can do the same with his bananas, although I think getting back to land is slightly easier against him. Unlike Smashville, Ness gets no help getting back outside of double jump. It's good, but recovering is just a pain regardless against characters like MK, Jigglypuff, or DDD.

Personally, I think the wide open airspace messes with PKT juggling. On FD it's a little easier to airdodge and get to the ground, or (if your aerial mobility is good enough) to just float away through the open space. Stages with platforms limit where the opponent can move to avoid the bolt, but on FD they can go wherever they want.

Nothing about Ness' moveset seems to be bettered here, but I could be wrong lol. Seems like there are a few things about the stage that are going against him though.

I'd be glad to hear what others think.

 

[P.I.E.]

I think the huge gap under the ledges of the stage are only there to eat my recoveries, I've just started banning this. However, it's good against characters who would benefit from platforms like metaknight, kirby, snake, and diddy.

 

[Susi]

I think the huge gap under the ledges of the stage are only there to eat my recoveries, I've just started banning this. However, it's good against characters who would benefit from platforms like metaknight, kirby, snake, and diddy.

Ness benefits from platforms too. I don't recommend you to pick FD vs Snake or Diddy. Snake can camp easier and Diddy can naner lock/control stage/punish landing better there.
And then there is the grab release stuff, it's a lot harder to prevent getting grabbed on FD. You will always have better counterpicks.

I always ban FD vs Diddy and Snake. Diddys usually go to smashville and Snakes like Lylat, Halberd and Castle Siege.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Protip for FD: Never take anyone here.
Unless someone is playing with Yoshi's Island as neutral because that sucks worse. Ness isn't such a fantastic character and he needs to be able to exploit something, such as a superior command of a stage, and Final Destination offers him nothing except those awful ledges.

 

[Neon Ness]

Ness isn't such a fantastic character and he needs to be able to exploit something, such as a superior command of a stage, and Final Destination offers him nothing except those awful ledges.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I feel about it. Really reinforces the point that a flat empty stage doesn't necessarily make a stage balanced for all characters.

I can't think of any characters that Ness should be bringing here (besides another Ness I guess?). I feel like part of fighting on FD comes down to who has superior camping potential, plain and simple, and Ness outcamps hardly anyone. I'm just thinking of how he can get past obstacles like D3's aerial range, Snake's grenades, Olimar's Pikmin, etc. on a flat plane as opposed to getting past them with help from the terrain/platforms (PS1, Brinstar for instance).

 

[Eagleye893]

Yeah, I hate FD. In some cases, I actually prefer YI over FD, because I always get a fail spot to recover from on FD and I already find it difficult enough to approach someone as Ness with platforms. YI at least gives ONE platform, no matter how obnoxious it is, to mess around with. Also, recovery is somewhat helped by the stage if you don't accidentally fall right next to the wall... or get your PKT inconveniently eaten by a random shy-guy or ghost popping up.

 

[P.I.E.]

Ness benefits from platforms too. I don't recommend you to pick FD vs Snake or Diddy. Snake can camp easier and Diddy can naner lock/control stage/punish landing better there.
And then there is the grab release stuff, it's a lot harder to prevent getting grabbed on FD. You will always have better counterpicks.

I always ban FD vs Diddy and Snake. Diddys usually go to smashville and Snakes like Lylat, Halberd and Castle Siege.

I know that platforms help ness, but It's easier to avoid naners and various explosives when there's no platforms, because there are less places to put them, and you'll basically be able to see all of them places you shouldn't go. Using diddy's naners against him is the best way to go anyway ( works for me 100% of the time.) The only time I like facing those two with platforms is on SV, mainly because snake has terrible air game, but his aerials are still powerful, not to mention his utilt can hit you from wtf feet away. @__@'

 

[Eagleye893]

@PIE: not really... the fact that some can be put on platforms makes it easier. You can pick up whichever ones are on platforms more easily by jumping through and airdodging when you want to grab it... or using an aerial... or pressing Z. Also, the platforms restrict how a diddy can throw nannerz at you from in the air. You can predict, based on the location of the platform in relation to where your opponent is, where to go and when in order to avoid or assuredly grab the nanner out of the air.

 

[Neon Ness]

I know that platforms help ness, but It's easier to avoid naners and various explosives when there's no platforms, because there are less places to put them, and you'll basically be able to see all of them places you shouldn't go.

Yeah, the thing about platforms though is that they can provide another method of moving about the stage to approach your enemy.

So let's say yes, in a stage like FD with no platforms, there are less places to put them/you can see where everything is. The next question though is "How are you going to get around them?" Ness can only stay in the air for so long, and his aerial mobility's not the best. If your opponent can force you into the air and into trying to approach a certain way, it's going to be that much harder to effectively be on the offense. Especially against characters like Snake who can easily out-range you even from the ground.

At least when there's a platform, it can become a guessing game for you and the enemy. They can direct projectiles towards the platform(s) or towards the ground of the main stage, and you have some flexibility as to where you can move around.

 

[P.I.E.]

Yeah, the thing about platforms though is that they can provide another method of moving about the stage to approach your enemy.

So let's say yes, in a stage like FD with no platforms, there are less places to put them/you can see where everything is. The next question though is "How are you going to get around them?" Ness can only stay in the air for so long, and his aerial mobility's not the best. If your opponent can force you into the air and into trying to approach a certain way, it's going to be that much harder to effectively be on the offense. Especially against characters like Snake who can easily out-range you even from the ground.

At least when there's a platform, it can become a guessing game for you and the enemy. They can direct projectiles towards the platform(s) or towards the ground of the main stage, and you have some flexibility as to where you can move around.

True, you have a point there.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

You can detonate snakes mines as well as deflect grenades and nikita with PK Thunder though so thats a plus.

 

[Yink]

Can we re-talk about Yoshi's Island in here? I mean, I originally thought this stage was pretty darn awful for Ness, but the more I play on it the more I think it's a load of bull. I think it's situational to certain match-ups. Anyone feel the same way at all?

 

[Eagleye893]

It hates on ness at the worst times.

In tournament, the ghosts popped up twice at the perfect time to eat my thunder for gimp. On normal days, it's just the shy-guys that do that.

 

[Yink]

Really, Eagle? I don't think I've died to Fly Guys that often, maybe the Ghost the occasional time here and there...I think the walls are more problematic than those though.

I don't know, I guess I just think it's not the best stage in the world but I don't think it's "oh god, NOT YOSHI'S ISLAND!". Can't we realistically get away from the areas of the Fly Guys, or do the cover the entire side of both sides?