I SEE YOU
Smash Ace
thanks man
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The Alabama Power Rankings: Image=protier
- Thread starter Saki-
- Start date
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Saki-
Reset Project
sadly the deadline is over. Thanks for playing though!Billy is now the newest member of the panel.
Now for the real fun.
Saki-
Reset Project
Yes, the system is now next on our priority list.
Ok everyone, so how are we wanting to do this. My main concern is that I feel that Mobile players are left in the dust when it comes to these rankings. So to make them a bit more welcome to the AL scene I'd like to establish a point system with the rest of you that prevents bias, and is fair and balanced.
Lets discuss
Ok everyone, so how are we wanting to do this. My main concern is that I feel that Mobile players are left in the dust when it comes to these rankings. So to make them a bit more welcome to the AL scene I'd like to establish a point system with the rest of you that prevents bias, and is fair and balanced.
Lets discuss
My biggest fear is that it has to center around tournament attendance and I can't see how to get around that. It'll have to deal with tournament attendance, but how can you make it so that it doesn't heavily favor central AL? Do you want it to center around who you beat or how high you place in tournaments or both? Do you want money matches to factor in? How about serious friendlies? I mean, if I don't run into you in tournament, but still want to see if I can beat you will friendlies count for anything assuming it's all you have to go on?
What do you want to go towards people's placement? As much bickering as it may cause, that's the advantage of placing people's opinions against each other. No one gets cheated out of a spot by a system. However, the system has absolutely no bias toward players and doesn't require you to know them.
What do you want to go towards people's placement? As much bickering as it may cause, that's the advantage of placing people's opinions against each other. No one gets cheated out of a spot by a system. However, the system has absolutely no bias toward players and doesn't require you to know them.
Saki-
Reset Project
Having that central AL is where majority of the tournaments are we really cant do much to make it heavily central AL favored.
People you've beaten > Tournament placings, but information from both will be used for the next update.
Though serious friendlies would seem like they would be ideal, there would be problems. The player could very well say "I wasn't trying, it was just friendlies after all" and would cause debates and more arguing. Not to mention with having something on the line a player will play differently (it could be better or worse, it just depends on how the individual copes with being in a stressful position). Yes, there are a few people who don't run into each other in the brackets. For situations like that, simply safe up money and challenge them to a minimal of $5 MM. Yes I realize not everyone is made of money, but if you're saving up gamble money on a tournament to get some credit, but feel you want more credit by issuing MMs, then there's no reason why you shouldn't extra money.
Sorry if I sounded like an *** in that post.
Who beats who, how consistent they are about it, and tournament placings (attendance will be the main factor as in how much this contributes)
Small tournaments will of course have a lesser say in our updates, as for our large tournaments will have a more say. But of course that goes without saying.
Did I answer everything? Feel free to ask more, and I hope that the other panelist are hasty to answering your question too.
just play diddy, dude.
So I fear. The only real way to do it where it wouldn't be like that would to have a certain value assigned from playing player X. You can never get anymore points from playing player X. Note that I dislike that.
I agree completely. Tournament placing shouldn't really matter.
No, I, again, completely agree. Friendlies have too many ifs. Personally, I don't want people to try and set up a not so friendly friendly where both sides have to confirm whatever with a third party. I was just throwing out possibilities to see what you had in mind.
I don't think tourney placing should really matter at all, but who you beat. If there are only two names that anyone knows at a tourney, that match should really be all you care about.
How about beating non-AL players? GA, LA, FL, TN (uhm, some of them play vBrawl), or Winnar. Let's say that Billy starts beating BigLou and Kismet consistently. He never gets a chance to play Will and he keeps losing to Reflex and Elev8, will he go up?
Aside from that, it's just how do you want to assign points? How can you do it to make it better than discussing who you think should be ranked where and having the panel look at all the input until a consensus is reached among them?
Saki-
Reset Project
Yes, because we are still very unsure about how players from the south compare to us in central Alabama. I'm going to use M3T as the biggest example. Very hyped player from Mobile and a bit from AU. Going just by on what was said I assumed, hey maybe he could at least be top 6. AU tournament comes around, doesn't really have the best results, and assures us that he may not be at the level currently to match the currently ranked players.
If we manage to play the players from Mobile at least two times a season, to see how far they've gotten or to see if they've gotten better than us, then I can promised a higher point value per player, and even perhaps a spot on the newest list if they deserve it. This goes for Hunstville players too.
I've always had this feeling, that if an underdog places high at a great turnout tournament because he managed to avoid his main problem players (who may or may not be better than he is) then he should get at least some credit. 3rd out of 50 shouldn't go unnoticed.
Of course small tournaments will have very little influence on points.
Tournaments with a turnout lower than 40 but higher than 24 will have a slight influence.
Tournaments with a turnout above 42 will have a moderate influence.
Basically tournament placings will only have a minimal say so in the update. But it will be there just to hopefully balance it out.
Remember, this current list was made solely by who beat who. If there isn't a change there wont be a new way to make this a little unbiased.
Edit: and no, poor placings will not subtract from your progress. Only losing to poor players.
I'm pretty sure that this has been brought up before. The main complaint was that they aren't AL so it shouldn't matter if we beat them or not.
<.< I disagree. If you're beating top OOS players, then you should certainly get credit for it. You're clearly showing you're got potential to play people outside of your state and beating a solid player is beating him, regardless of where he's from.
The panel will have to decide after we've gotten enough information from the other AL players, and have came up with something that not only is fair, but efficient.
I SEE YOU
Smash Ace
I did not read the prior post because of the abundance of text, but serious friendlies don't count for anything, because in the end they are still friendlies. I'm more of the put your money where your mouth is type of players. If you want to play someone for acknowledgment for a pr spot do a $10 mm. If you are broke get a job. If $5 must suffice then that's cool. But i think PR spots should be 3 out of 5 game mms. Just my opinion though.
Saki-
Reset Project
xD oh come on Elev8 my wall of text are detailed!
But yea I basically said the same thing. $10 seems like a bit much, we aren't Florida you know.
I will agree with 3/5
But yea I basically said the same thing. $10 seems like a bit much, we aren't Florida you know.
I will agree with 3/5
I SEE YOU
Smash Ace
stealth3654
Smash Lord
TOs from now on should keep a copy of the brackets and post them on SB to make it a lot easier on us to determine who beat who. Also, someone on the panel can keep a copy of the brackets for the next PR so we don't have to search for them.
Saki-
Reset Project
lol so this season AL>FL xD sure we can show them whats up with our pockets filled with $10 bills.
Sure I'll keep the copies that are posted and distribute them again when updating time comes around.
Sure I'll keep the copies that are posted and distribute them again when updating time comes around.
munkus beaver
Smash Journeyman
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I don't agree with a point system of any sort right now. We simply do not have the regular flux of tourneys or player attendance in order to have a good tourney system. There's also the problem that a tourney 4 months ago shouldn't have as much weight as one three days ago, no matter the significant population.
EDIT: Brevity is the soul of wit, Kola.
EDIT: Brevity is the soul of wit, Kola.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
I kind of have an idea, but it's a work in progress, so be nice.
We distribute points based on who you beat. If you beat a non-PR person, you get 2 points. If you beat a PR person in the bottom 5 you get 3 points. Beating a PR person in the top 5 gets you 4 points. Beating a PR person from another state gets you 3 points. This could count for brackets and $5+ money matches. We reset everyone's points to zero every season.
Anyways, I'm just throwing that out there. There are obviously some flaws with the idea, so you can tear it down and criticize it if you want.
We distribute points based on who you beat. If you beat a non-PR person, you get 2 points. If you beat a PR person in the bottom 5 you get 3 points. Beating a PR person in the top 5 gets you 4 points. Beating a PR person from another state gets you 3 points. This could count for brackets and $5+ money matches. We reset everyone's points to zero every season.
Anyways, I'm just throwing that out there. There are obviously some flaws with the idea, so you can tear it down and criticize it if you want.
Say I lose to you in 3 tournaments earlier in the season, but I beat you in the last two pretty decisively. You still get more points out of it even though I've improved to the point I can beat you.
I don't know if a point system is the right way to go about it. More discussion than we currently have would be good. TOs having copies of brackets would be AMAZING. I say we help the current system improve rather than institute a new one.
And Elev8, I don't think anyone disagrees with you.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
Well, if the points reset every season, then it would fix that problem. Unless of course you think I would face you in 5 tournaments in one season.
I went back and tried this points system on the most recent season to see what I would get. It actually produces some pretty accurate results, although I didn't know the brackets for a lot of tournaments.
It wasn't about you and me. I was using an example, but, for example, let's replace you in that situation with Reflex, and me with Elev8.
The other thing is that, on that system, GA's #10 is worth more than AL's bottom 5.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
Yeah, but people don't face each other 5 times in a season was my point. It's very unlikely. And if they do, it's also very likely that one of them won't turn things around like you described.
Doesn't have to occur five times. If I lose two times to, say Zero_Gamer, but I play him a third time and two stock him in tournament because I learned the match-up and outplayed him, then is it still an accurate depiction of current skill level?
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
Yes, because consistency still matters. If Elev8 actually beats Reflex once, it doesn't mean that he's better automatically.
Which is why I don't think a point system can work. You can't look at the match and see if it is likely to become consistent. Let's say that Cheap drops Peach and picks up MetaKnight. He's already lost to player X twice, but he comes in with this new strategy and wrecks him. The match isn't pretty. You can see that it is going to become consistent without a different change occurring for player X.
I still think discussion > points.
I still think discussion > points.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
The rankings aren't supposed to be based on one match though. It should be based on their overall performance. The problem I have with discussion is that it turns into a panel. And the panel has become so subjective, that I am starting to think a point system that takes into account brackets would be best.
_Keno_
Smash Lord
What a faulty scenario.
I would never drop Peach.
Nevertheless, I agree that discussion will almost always be better than points. Cam may actually be able to make a worthy point system though (with some critiquing), and I think we should try it out. Of course, we won't use it if the final result for the next PR is just obviously wrong, but we may can use it for people who have PR placements argued over.
And I honestly don't know much about point systems, so I probably won't be much help.
I would never drop Peach.
Nevertheless, I agree that discussion will almost always be better than points. Cam may actually be able to make a worthy point system though (with some critiquing), and I think we should try it out. Of course, we won't use it if the final result for the next PR is just obviously wrong, but we may can use it for people who have PR placements argued over.
And I honestly don't know much about point systems, so I probably won't be much help.
Purple
Hi guys!
You guys got a system yet?
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
I still think we should discuss it, but if we do another panel, we really need to figure out a better way to decide the panel.
EDIT: I really want a renewed focus on what happens in tournaments. I think the previous lists were a bit too subjective based on gut feelings and such.
EDIT: I really want a renewed focus on what happens in tournaments. I think the previous lists were a bit too subjective based on gut feelings and such.
_Keno_
Smash Lord
Nope. Give us a few weeks...
We should probably all vote on whether to do points, panel, or discussion. Of course, the panel will also include some discussion.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
Cheap, can you teach me to play melee? Specifically, I actually wanted to learn peach in melee. I used her a few weeks ago and really liked her. She's similar to her brawl self.
Purple
Hi guys!
I can tell you guys a good system
I say we take whatever point system we can come up with and apply it to a tournament season and when the time comes to update the rankings, we look at it and decide if it's accurate. There's no reason we can't take the results and see if we like the way it turned out. If the results show something that isn't right, then there's no reason to accept it. As much as I think discussion is superior, why not test it out? Agree/disagree?
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
That sounds like a good idea. At least then our discussion would have to consider the tournament results. Let's decide on a good point system first though. What do you guys think would be a good point system?
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Care to share?I can tell you guys a good system
_Keno_
Smash Lord
Yeah, they are pretty similar. In fact, still cant do aerials in brawl without float-canceling them, which very much limits my spacing. And I cant rotate playing both peaches at the same tournament without sucking at both. Its quite a dilemma.
And I will if I can, but Xif and Mike G live closer to you, and are much more experienced than I. They could be substitutes if we dont see much of each other.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
I'm actually home in Madison for the summer, so if you are ever in Huntsville...
I SEE YOU
Smash Ace
Don't know how interested you guys are, but Myself, my brother and Billy were at the Waba monthly yesterday. Results are up, bracket is supposed to go up soon.
We need a place to stockpile them. It'd be really cool to look at them later.
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