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The beginning of the end - breaking the MK matchup

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
7,266
Location
Haiti Gonna Hait
If you jump over him, you put him in the position for his best move, Upair. You will then have your nade exploded on you from his sword, and then continually be upaired over and over, finished off with a tornado.

You also are put in a position to be forward tilted if you are not careful.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
I don't get in the title of this thread "Breaking the MK match up"what do you mean by breaking?
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
There HAS to be something of Snake's moves that can serously deal with MK's flashy moves and there also has to be a way on how to avoid MK's air approaches and combos but the problem is....how?
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
Random stuff:
Stick with the first hit of Forward Tilt. MK is often aerial, and so he'll SDI the first hit so the second would miss anyways. Rather than dealing with tons of lag, you'll shorten your lag time from 61 to 30 frames. This means you'll be able to quickly get back set up for the next attack. The routine of full F-Tilts is a poor one against MK. Furthermore, retreating Pivot Grabs are AMAZING against an aerial Mk. We're spoiled. The Marth match up is all about pivot grabbing MK, and our Pivot grab is of similar range.

Against MK don't spot dodge. Power Shield everything. If you spot dodge, you're going to get grabbed, which will turn into a down throw, which will suddenly become an edge guard. In this match up it is almost -better- to get hit than to spot dodge.

If MK is approaching, he'll most likley be doing Fair. SDI it. Force MK to only get 2 or 1% damage from you. They'll soon start to approach with Dair spacing or Nair.

If you're getting combo'ed by MK, it's because you're DI'ing wrong. Chances are you're DIing straight into MK, which is letting his relatively slow airspeed to keep you on lock down. The only moves MK is going to kill you with in the air are Shuttle Loop and fresh Nair. Most MK's of pro level use Nair to eat spot dodges and after a Uair forces an airdodge so it's rarely fresh. SDI everything. You can even SDI MK's Nair so that you're behind him. If you're hit by a Uair at low percent, SDI straight up. MK won't have the speed to chase you, and will waste a second, and maybe even third Uair in an attempt to hit you.

If you're coming back onto the stage, do not air dodge. Space MK for the U air. He shouldn't fair you, and he won't Shuttle Loop you until you take out your Cypher. SDI the Uair towards the stage, if you air dodge, you're going to eat a nair, and will probably be killed. You also don't want to get dair'ed. Recover high, save your fast fall for when MK starts to aerially approach you.

If MK is attempting to space his F-Tilt, our F-Tilt destroys it. Though their F-Tilt is a frame faster, there's something magical in the air with Snake's F-Tilt due to its massive range.

We must ask ourselves how does MK kill? At low percents with a gimp that's set up by down throws, shuttle loops that devour poor mid level recoveries, F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Air off the top, and Nair. If you are standing in the center of the stage, grounded, MK can only kill you with F-Smash and the strong side of his Down Smash. The Pro Mks kill based off of stage position. As Snake mains, we kill typically vertically and so we are not always thinking about short/long side of the stage. This needs to change. As your percentage grows, MK's throw game becomes weaker. He lacks the speed to keep up with the velocity you gain after you reach around 80%.

Walk, don't run. If you're running at MK you have ****ty options: Shield, Spot dodge, dash attack, Dacas, throw, aerials, and grenade. You have removed your best options in running which are your tilts. Everything else you can do from a run is going to be beaten by a grounded MK with Shuttle Loop or a Tornado. The only time you should run is if you're about to do a b-reversal grenade to create a wall.

If you're in the air the safest place to be is above MK. The most he can do is U-air or Tornado. If he Tornados, you should SDI and pop out, which allows you to hit the ground before MK to set up traps/punishment. If he U airs, you simply SDI as far as possible away from him. His goal in that situation is to bait the air dodge so he can Nair/Dair/fair you to the edge.

Do not get on the edge against MK. Snake's options are too limited and easy to read. MK can literally read all of the options Snake does with nothing more than a tornado. Roll? Tornado. Get up attack? Tornado. Jump? Tornado.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Does that means MK is unbeatable and it will remain in MK's favor because Snake's options are limited?
 

Corrupted

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
446
dthrow has no follow-ups at any percentages if you DI the right way.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
Down throw is used as a positioning tool to get Snake in the air at a velocity that will push him off stage. It also can lead to easy reads for damage.
 
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