I keep forgetting about people somehow. you guys are the best =) NEO is def a rapist vs DK
My bad @ Ramin about kirby
NEO is only up on trevor maybe one set but is 0-2 vs Coney. CJ is pretty good vs DDD. I guess since we don't have to go by results only (see: CJ vs Ike) I'll put both of them for DDD.
Mr-R and Leon have several wins on Quik, I guess it's better to say that they're good vs ZSS. I do remember Quik noting that Mikeneko eventually going even with him, and watching the video Mikeneko understands the fundamentals of playing vs ZSS...but we can only go off the evidence that we have now.
Mikehaze and Mikeneko are even vs Snake. Calico cat has beaten Dio, Shu, AND Kuroobi, you can't ever forget that just because he lost to Shogun. I could just as easily say Mike is worse than Mikeneko for going even against Havok, but he beat Mr-R's Snake when it counted (one game, mind you) and has beaten Ally several times (though his last win vs Ally was a while back). So after looking at data you just do subjective evaluation based on their style of play, and it's unclear as to who is better.
I asked Larry himself and he said Mr-R and Leon are both better than Mike vs Falco. Your move
It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. I can't believe you agree, Uncle. If you've seen what Zigsta, Vex and myself (I'm not really a noticeable Bowser or even a Top 5, but I play against players around my level) do against Marths, you'll see it's not terrible. I'd say that in practice, it's more of a -1. The MU chart states it's one of our easiest -2s, and I kinda agree with that (hence, it's not that bad.
I won't take a "marth fairs him all day and wins" seriously. I want more backup on that claim.
Also who the hell is CJ.
Bowser is slow AND without reliable tools to zone/bait Marth.
On stage: Bowser is outranged, outdisjointed + outsped. He cannot compete w Marth's disjoints + superior movement and ends up getting in through hard reads or the Marth messing up a lot
Getting juggled: Bowser is free
Juggling Marth: Admittedly somewhat competent but doesn't have tools to consistently get Marth in this position
Ledge trapping Marth: Every character has a decent ledge trap on marth but Bowser is on the lower end of that scale imo, unless you can tell me why he isn't. Firebreath + Ftilt/Dtilt do not cover enough options simultaneously
Edgeguarding marth: cannot successfully cover many angles without taking significant risks
Getting edgeguarded/ledge trapped: Same category because this is so bad for Bowser. he either chooses to safely recover and get butt****ed by Marth's godlike ledge trap or he takes risks while recovering and gets reset continuously upon failure (which isn't difficult to trigger)
Bowser does not get +3'd by marth by the combination of sheer weight, a solid OOS option, hard hitting moves, and decent range. I would disagree with the MU chart in this case and actually put Marth closer to Pikachu/Peach/Snake/Pit level of bad.
