The Better Lucario Official Guide/Faq/Database (Now with More Lawl!)

[Khosan]

Is there any real reason to do a Dair on the ground other than showing off your reflexes?

I don't think the hitbox is wide enough for it to do anything unless you're right next to someone, in which case AA-Finish would probably be a better choice.

 

[Pentaoku]

Is there any real reason to do a Dair on the ground other than showing off your reflexes?

I don't think the hitbox is wide enough for it to do anything unless you're right next to someone, in which case AA-Finish would probably be a better choice.

I would guess that it's pretty useful for catching rollers. For example when people expect you to jump at people and fair.

 

[Greenpoe]

Nevermind! (dunno how to delete)

 

[Milln]

Is there any real reason to do a Dair on the ground other than showing off your reflexes?

I don't think the hitbox is wide enough for it to do anything unless you're right next to someone, in which case AA-Finish would probably be a better choice.

You can stab their shield with Dair on the ground if you do it low enough. =o Or sometimes only the first hit will connect, in which case you can follow-up if you're fast and they're slow. Also useful for slapping people when they're on the ledge.

 

[Milln]

I plan to stay up all night and tomorrow night and get no sleep. I tend to be a little weird and giggly when I don't have the necessary recharge time on me and that usually leads to finding new and unusual things in Brawl. Is there anything you all would like me to test, come up with, find, discover, figure out, poke at, decipher the nuances of?

anything? I'm even off, tomorrow, too.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

great info, this helped me a bit keep it up.

 

[Kitamerby]

...Waitasec. Is Lucario committing suicide or contemplating in sorrow in that "And the Bad" picture with his legs dangling?

 

[Nodrak]

Sakurai adding tripping to the game put a tear in Lucario's eyes. Or he's just embarrassed that he fell flat on his ***. Could have been worse, look at C Falcon's trip animation, that looks painful! (painfully funny)

 

[Khosan]

I've got something you could try to test. Didn't think of it until just now.

Can any of Lucario's aura attacks cancel out projectiles if used at the right time? I know Aura Sphere has that capability, but I'm curious to see if you could accomplish it with an ftilt or possibly an utilt.

 

[Nodrak]

Depends on priority. As long as ftilt or utilt have higher or equal priority to the projectile, it'll cancel it out. (It's why Mario can jab missiles and small energy balls without getting hurt using his fist)

 

[Milln]

Hmm.. we had a list of what Force Palm's Flame can cancel in Jeepy's topic, don't we? Who wants to test Lucario's priority on attacks? =D

Also, about the picture. He's in the tripping animation, so he's next to the things that "Trip" Lucario up. =o Get it? *so witty*

 

[Tallen]

i thought that Luc after the trip looks cute actually... i got a few SS of him tripping in smashville but I don't know how to convert the pictures to use in forums XD
either way thanks for mentioning me in the guide Infi. Keep up the good work!!

 

[Milln]

May 14th, 2008- Verified Wall Cling time. Added a combo! Added some approaches. Mentioned momentum games in the Tricks section.

I swear. Every time I come here with lots of information and I only remember like half of it. Oh well.

 

[Milln]

Look what I found on the second page. =O Updates scheduled for tomorrow.

 

[Milln]

Updates delayed due to finding something interesting worth testing involving living longer.

 

[phi1ny3]

Uh-oh, someone got crazy with posts! But that aside, thanks Milln, keep up the good work, it's helping me compete with the other pros in my area.

 

[Rebonack]

Alright, quick summary.

-Lucario's damage aura kicks in at 29% and reaches full power at 167%. Lucario's stock aura has a range of a two stock advantage to a two stock disadvantage.

-At no stock difference the minimum and maximum total aura boost (TAB) is x1 and x2, respectively.

-At a one stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.2 and x2.4, respectively.

-At a two stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.4 and x2.7, respectively.

-At a one stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.9 and x1.8, respectively.

-At a two stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.8 and x1.7, respectively.

These numbers are generally quite close and the only attack that seemed to deviate noticeably was the Bair (it was dealing about x2.85 at -2 and 167%). I made a nice graph, but Photobucket won't let me upload it =(

 

[phi1ny3]

Alright, quick summary.

-Lucario's damage aura kicks in at 29% and reaches full power at 167%. Lucario's stock aura has a range of a two stock advantage to a two stock disadvantage.

-At no stock difference the minimum and maximum total aura boost (TAB) is x1 and x2, respectively.

-At a one stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.2 and x2.4, respectively.

-At a two stock disadvantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x1.4 and x2.7, respectively.

-At a one stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.9 and x1.8, respectively.

-At a two stock advantage the minimum and maximum TAB is x0.8 and x1.7, respectively.

These numbers are generally quite close and the only attack that seemed to deviate noticeably was the Bair (it was dealing about x2.85 at -2 and 167%). I made a nice graph, but Photobucket won't let me upload it =(

if it won't let u, could u send me the url? it should be uploading, but I will try to help. This is going to be a great contribution, thanks Rebonack!

 

[Milln]

May 20th, 2008- Finally got that Aura and Extra Aura multiplier figured out, we think. Keep testing, it's by no means concrete, unless it is. >,>


Update cause Rebonack's awesome.

Other Data that we need dealing with crunching numbers: KO Percents. Damage dealt by the individual moves up until the cap.

And Rebonack, have you determined why the damage maximum is such a weird number? I mean.. 167? Why? XD

*goes back to fiddling with the godmode thing he hopes is working*

 

[Silvran]

So it's not 200... wow, with my friends, I usually end up near 180%... so I'd be at max aura then. No wonder such crazy, insane things start happening. That helps immensely, I can start playing the style I'd use with full aura earlier.

 

[Milln]

Dangit. I was so sure this was gonna work. The project was to see if Aura Sphere was too awesome for the world. Unfortunately it is not. =\

In an effort to see how ridiculous we could live, me and Jeepy (Nodrak and Tallen were unable to test) tried to see if Aura Sphere's momentum stopping properties could help us live longer sideways. Unfortunately, it does not. >,< You just keep going. Even if you try to B/Psuedo Stick it it doesn't even begin to halt you. XD

And this morning I went a little further and poked at the rest of Lucario's B moves with still no results. Double Team doesn't do enough, Force Palm is no way, and Extreme Speed LOOKS like it helps... but if you're going to go off the edge, you're going to off the edge. ExtremeSpeed DOES move you back forward, but your momentum drags you offscreen, anyway. XD

The good news is that our midair Jump has GREAT momentum cancellation. It'll save you pretty well, though it's up to you if you decide to keep it until you get back to the ledge. Do keep in mind that it will prevent you from dying when nothing else will.

 

[Browny]

ok no more wasting time, ive done enough of that tonight testing this stuff.

The damage cap is 182%

many of lucarios moves max out at thier damage within 163-181%, however only his dsmash changes beyond this point, uncharged dsmash doing 19% at 181% and 20% at 182%.

also, lucarios multiplier isnt a linear trend, its ever so slightly a power function.

ill graph this stuff tomorrow for a good picture reference. an average of the relationship between damage of his dsmash, aura sphere usmash (no annoying sweetspots to deal with) should be more than enough to determine the real equation.

 

[Rebonack]

Odd. Apparently some of the attacks do use a separate cap. I had noticed that the damage for Dsmash seemed low in my testing, but it still fell within the range that I was looking for (barely) so I didn't pay much attention to it.

Well, it seems to me the most responsible thing to do would be to find the cap for individual moves. And Lucario's damage increases in steps, every 12% or so I think. It isn't technically possible to get a perfectly smooth line with it because it doesn't have one >.>

 

[Nodrak]

Maybe the reasoning is that some attacks use more aura then others, so they get effected by the boost more?

Sucks to see AS doesn't halt you if you're knocked away, if only we had a tether recovery, it would save us. I guess our best bet is to spam dair and pray that it gets it's momentum stopping ability back before we kick the bucket.

 

[Rebonack]

Well, as best my memory serves all the attacks capped at x2 when Lucario has no stock advantage. Though I'll be checking again this evening along with testing when each attack maxes out. Most of them seem to be hitting full power at or around 167%, which is why the observations of our good fellow Smasher Mr. Brown surprised me.

As it stands my initial analysis is a really good approximation if nothing else. But I 'spose I'll go through and find the exact damage cap as well for each attack. Probably amuse myself by assigning PokeMon attack names to Lucario's move-set at the same time. >.>

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I noticed that you did your previous tests in training mode. I was doing some multiplier tests yesterday (I didn't realize that you were doing the same) and the aura multipliers are different in training mode than in an actual match. Just thought I would let you know before you did a bunch of tests that end up being false.

 

[Nodrak]

Training mode != Brawl mode
Don't worry about setting stock, just do an unlimited time match.
Also I remember someone mentioning that they just both jump off the edge after an attack, to my knowledge that won't cancel decay, the decay will still exist.

 

[Steamroll3929]

The multiplyer is the same its just there is no move decay in training mode.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

The multiplyer is the same its just there is no move decay in training mode.

Not according to my tests. After finding out when Lucario's Aura kicks in during a real Brawl, ie. NOT training mode, making sure that I did not use the same move twice, which would result in move decay, I went and check to see if it was the same in training mode... And it was not... So...

 

[phi1ny3]

The multiplyer is the same its just there is no move decay in training mode.

That, and CPU's DI differently.

 

[Rebonack]

Leaping off the edge will cancel decay. Though I was mostly using jab-punches to refresh moves. All my 'Extra Aura' tests were done in Brawl mode, not training. So that shouldn't be an issue. The damage cap test was, however, done in training mode.

Now then.

*ahem*

Aura cap for each move! Yay!

Alright, I know what was fiddly about the previously reported 183% cap. Dsmash, like many of Lucario's attacks, deals a fractional amount of damage. That wasn't taken into account when trying to figure out what its cap is. That may very well be what's causing the damage difference in training and Brawl mode. You can't smack someone ten times in a row in Brawl mode to find the decimal damage of an attack.

Now then, my procedure in case anyone wants to duplicate what I found.

I smacked Mario ten times with each attack at 0% to get the base damage, then ten times at 999% to be darn well certain that Lucario's aura was as strong as it would get. Ten hits gets me out to one decimal place, which is enough for most attacks. There are a few that deal damage out to two decimal places, but that's low enough to ignore for the most part.

Now then, I would also like to point out that some attacks with higher decimal damage effectively hit their cap in the low 160's. But to get that last little bit of damage you need to get to the listed number.

Finally, force palm flame is odd.

Seriously.

At higher aura levels it has three damage points. The tip deals 11% and some change, between the tip and middle deals 12% and some change, and behind the middle and before the grab deals 14%. The exact cap there is somewhat wonky as a result. It might be different for all three.

Now to the numbers! (And attack names I picked! Any alternate suggestions would be nice!)

Furry Swipes: (A,A,A) 7%-14%, 170% cap.
Mega Punch: (Ftilt) 9%-18.1%, 167% cap.
Low Kick: (Dtilt) 4.8%-9.8%, 166% cap.
Rolling Kick: (Utilt) 4.2%-8.4%, 170% cap.
No idea >.> (DSmash) 9.8%-19.6%, 169% cap.
Focus Blast (FSmash) 11.15%-22.3%, 165% cap.
Dunno <.< (USmash) 9%-18.1%, 167% cap.
Nothing yet (Fthrow) 7%-14%, 170% cap.
Ditto (Uthrow) 4.2%-8.4%, 168% cap.
Comet Punch (grapple) 0.7%-1.4%, 170% cap.
Sorry (Nair) 7.7%-15.4%, 169% cap.
Double Kick (Dair) 11.15%-22.3%, 168% cap.
Iron Claw (Bair) 8.4%-16.8%, 168% cap.
Jump Kick (Fair) 3.5%-7%, 170% cap.
High Jump Kick (Uair) 7%-14%, 170% cap.
Lil' Aura Sphere 5.25%-10.5%, 170% cap.
Aura Sphere 13.1%-26.3%, 167% cap.
Force Palm Flame 6.2%-12.4%, 164% cap.
Force Palm Grab 9%-18.1%, 167% cap.
Double Team 7.7%-15.4%, 169% cap.

That comes out to an average of 168% as the cap. Though nothing goes above 170% in terms of where its cap is. So just saying that the cap is 170 would probably be the safest, most accurate bet.

And just post my data this time, Milln. People don't need to read mah ramblin'. =P

 

[Nodrak]

making sure that I did not use the same move twice, which would result in move decay

Correct me if I'm wrong but a move is affected by decay when it hits an opponent. Not only that but moves are recorded in the decay queue for up to 9 moves. So if you

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS

aura sphere will have horrible decay. Now if you do a fsmash, it shouldn't cancel out every other AS, it'll just get put into the queue.

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash

And if you do lets say a usmash now it'll look like

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash > usmash

If you shoot an AS, would it not still be affected by 7 points of decay?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

The damage cap test was, however, done in training mode.

I would really quickly go and test with any one of those moves to see if the damage cap is the same in real Brawl and training mode, just to be safe.

Also, thanks a lot for this. I'm glad you did it before I got the chance to.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a move is affected by decay when it hits an opponent. Not only that but moves are recorded in the decay queue for up to 9 moves. So if you

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS

aura sphere will have horrible decay. Now if you do a fsmash, it shouldn't cancel out every other AS, it'll just get put into the queue.

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash

And if you do lets say a usmash now it'll look like

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash > usmash

If you shoot an AS, would it not still be affected by 7 points of decay?

I'm not exactly sure about the antics of move decay, but that seems legit.

 

[Milln]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a move is affected by decay when it hits an opponent. Not only that but moves are recorded in the decay queue for up to 9 moves. So if you

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS

aura sphere will have horrible decay. Now if you do a fsmash, it shouldn't cancel out every other AS, it'll just get put into the queue.

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash

And if you do lets say a usmash now it'll look like

AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > AS > fsmash > usmash

If you shoot an AS, would it not still be affected by 7 points of decay?

This is correct.

Rebonack's new data is accepted. Anyone have any contradictory data?

 

[Zero_Gamer]

So................... At what point does decay actually occur? And what point does the move regenerate? Does it regenerate for every other attack, or does it regenerate after the said move queue is completely replaced by another 5/6/7/etc.-move set?

 

[Milln]

Decay occurs for a move once you deal damage with that move. It regenerates fully after you deal damage with nine other attacks.

 

[Nodrak]

But would jumping off the edge to your death take away decay as Rebonack says?

 

[Milln]

It does. Whenever you die, your decay queue is reset.

 

[Browny]

HI

enjoy...

 

[phi1ny3]

HI

enjoy...

*downloads the chart*
Thanks man, this is awesome!