The Captain Falcon Weekly Discussion Thread! (week 1)

[Face124]

Welcome to the Falcon weekly discussion thread!
every week we start a new discussion for each of theses five things:

Read the OP. The techchase discussion is about that attack as a techchase, not in general. The Character part is about CP'ing and that char in teams with Falcon. Anyone who posts stuff that isn't relevant will be reported by me.


1)Stage
2)Attack
3)Techchase
4)Playstyle/tactic
5)CP'ing a specific character and teams with that character

We I'll debate and argue about how these things work for Falcon and their uses etc, then at the end of each week I (or someone else if they want to) will write up a summary of each, which will then be posted and fixed to make it more accurate, then that will be posted in the OP, and we shall move onto something else. If we feel that not enough discussion has happened on a particular subject, it will continue into the next week.

This weeks topics:

1)Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Possibly Falcon's best neutral stage due to the 5 places where he can Mock Wave-Land on it and the platforms that pop up at either side can help his mediocre recovery and help him gimp others. Although the stage is small enough to give campers little room, the platforms at either side can help them with charged attacks.

2)Falcon Kick

Although it has been done in the past, with new ledge cancelling possibilities, I think the old one is a bit out of date. Typically a good approach, and with moderately high priority, it is a useful attack. But does its punishability mean it can't be used at lower percents?

3)Hyphen U-smash

With the fact that it can be done out of a dash, its good distance, its good speed, high damage and knockback, and can be charged. Sounds perfect. But does the fact that it doesn't lead smoothly into other options means it isn't as effective in the long run?

4)Approaching as Falcon

Most people say that Falcon is a punishing character, but since projectiles exist, Falcon is sometimes forced to approach. B-air and U-air with their long range can be used for aerial approaching, Falcon Dive for aerial opponents and sometimes Falcon kick. But which are the best?

5)Pikachu

With an annoying spammable ranged move and two good CGs, a small stage with platforms would be best, and a high roof to stop easy thunder kills. And does Pikachu's QAC and two projectiles complement Falcon's more limited options? Discuss.

Stole some pictures form ToKnee's guide

 

[Ville]

So, I don't have that much time, so I'ma compress it a little.

1)
I think YI is great for that MW-stuff but all in all I find it rather mediocre.
The opportunity to stagespike (what is one of falcons rather good abilities) is completely taken away.
I dislike the platform, because it's mostly too high for doing any shorthop stuff and it's hard to land a knee while it's permanently moving.
The stage is rather small so it's not that much of an awful deal vs. chaingrabbers.

I, for one, do a lot better on other stages, but it's ok i guess.

2)I rarely use the kick and if so, only at more than ~60% (depends on enemy).
It's just too easily punishable because you have an awkward ending lag and it's slowed down by shielding big time. Futhermore it can be shieldgrabbed.
I guess nobody here can perform the falcon kick with that ledgecancel-thingy constantly because it's not that easy to guess the distance.
It's kinda good for mindgames, if rarely used though.

3)The hyphen usmash seems to be raelly good at first, but most of the time you just end up hitting that first kick, missing the second, and getting your *** slapped.
The only real use I could find were either air grab release combos (on MK and fellas) or vs really fat enemies, where it's rather likely to hit.

4)If I had to chose an attack among falcons that are good for approaching the only thing I'd take would be Uair. It has some shield-pushback what makes it harder to shieldgrab, also good priority, range, speed and damage.
But I normally don't even use an attack, I dunno if there's a name for this technique, but I think there is.
I just SH/FH at the enemie, doing some airdodge when coming into range.
Most people would expect you to attack in someway and so either shield, dodge or attack.
When they dodge or shield you simply show them your destroying jab->grab what is easy 20%.
If they attack you just land, holding shieldbutton and either shield or dodge and punish them after.
This method always worked best for me, because it's save.

5)Pikachu is a nightmare for Falcon: small, fast, good projectiles, chaingrab and good priority.
The best stage to counterpick is brinstar imo.
You have a platform covering most of the area above you to protect from downB.
The stage is really small and you can destroy those sausages in the middle what makes it harder for him to cg you.

 

[Player-3]

1) Not falcons best stage, as stated above no stage spikes
MWL works good here, but its considerably less useful than stage spiking
The platform sometimes helps you with Dthrowing at high %s though, as they sometimes land on it, and you can techchase with a Uair

2) i love falcon kick <3
i use it for everything, approaching, punishing, tech chasing, etc
probobly my most spammed move besides grabs
but thats just my strange playstyle

3) No idea. I never use Usmash more than once or twice a game

4) its all about raptor diving
never used as an approach, i use it for free damage when they dont expect it.

Falcon kick works great for people dashing for you, or projectile spammers since it clanks you can usually gain some distance and clank with their projectile and repeat until they stop spamming or you get close enough to do something about it, yeah it may seem noobish to you guys but it works great since it clanks with almost all projectiles (inb4 bombs and lazors)

Dash to Spotdodge.
just plain awesome, you spot dodge and your still moving along the ground and can usually buffer a turnaround jab on them

Arial Approaches... no idea i dont approach from the air


5) never fought any pikachus, but i know that it must be hell....

 

[Prez08]

1) This stage is one of my least favorites, because i frequently get gimped. >_< Seriously, with falcon's bad recovery, it's hard to grab the edge most of the time. You have to be really smart when your trying to get back on the stage here. I recommend staying under the platform, and going for the gimp a little less.

2) I use falcon kick to punish people who roll a lot and for the awesome LC :] Also to cancel out projectiles and such. It's not really useful for approaching (unless you catch your opponent off guard) And if you don't, you will end up with a nice smash attack in your face. The lag this move has makes it too punishable imo. Use this move sparingly.

3) As stated before, this techchase will **** the fatties. I don't really use it that much though, but when i do, it's unpredicted. If you miss, you WILL be punished, so please know what your doing when you use this. Very useful f to punish rollers.

4)My favorite approaches are AC Bair, AC Uair and spotdodge. These can lead to jab cancels and other combos. When there is a lot of space between you and your opponent, DO NOT use raptor boost. You will be *****. O:< I recommend using your aerials and spotdodge more. When there is little space between you and your opponent, SH Dair works great! also, Falcon dive can be useful and unpredictable. Try to mix it up in approaches overall. Find different ways to use your aerials and your shield.

5) Any stage with platform(s) works best imo. I don't really have any experience with pika as a partner. But anyway, platforms can help you dodge his spam attacks and you can use creative approaches. Stages like BF, Brinstar, even SV can help you out.

 

[Face124]

Good feedback people, thanks very much, but please, Read the OP.

We're talking about U-smash as a TACHCHASE, NOT AS AN ATTACK IN GENERAL.

we're talking about CP'ing pika or how he does in teams, this is not a match-up discussion.

 

[Zeallyx]

hey, those are my pics

 

[Face124]

hey, those are my pics

yes

and you people who posted the wrong stuff before I went all crazy about relevance, don't worry, you won't be reported, and your contribution is greatly appreciated.

 

[Tenki]

4)
From just outside foxtrot distance:
Dashdance (forward-back-forward)> dash attack/grab
Or (back-forward)> dash attack / grab

If your opponent is defensive and spotdodges or F-smashes/tilts, the short dashdance iteration buys you enough time to punish without being stuck in it for too long.

Also nice to work this from foxtrot approaches, too.

opinions?

 

[Player-3]

4)
From just outside foxtrot distance:
Dashdance (forward-back-forward)> dash attack/grab
Or (back-forward)> dash attack / grab

If your opponent is defensive and spotdodges or F-smashes/tilts, the short dashdance iteration buys you enough time to punish without being stuck in it for too long.

Also nice to work this from foxtrot approaches, too.

opinions?

YESZ

ive done doubles with a chu, so ill give some advice, didnt see hte doubles part

if you do team with a pikachu and he can do the QAC lock...

double jump falcon punch =3
lolcombo
but seriously, pikachu dsmash -> falcon punch is amazing...
if your chu is at like 9001% i recommend this for free kills :D

 

[Prez08]

We're talking about U-smash as a TACHCHASE, NOT AS AN ATTACK IN GENERAL.

we're talking about CP'ing pika or how he does in teams, this is not a match-up discussion.

I think i fixed my post.

 

[peeeetah]

1. yoshi's island is meh. not a bad stage for falcon but it doesnt really give him many advantages either. the waveland isn't that useful at times. it might just be me but i find it easier to space myself using empty jumps. the platform is useful for dropzoning a knee but good players will rarely put themselves in those kinds of situations. the platform is much better for uair spam imo.

2. love the falcon kick too. i use it kinda differently as an approach. i'll run at them and shorthop the aerial one. the timing of it throws people off and it has enough knockback so that you'll be safe during lag. keep in mind that you actually gotta hit em, or else you're just ****ing yourself. another thing with it is that it has a pretty good area of effect. people will be in its range and not know it. i also change up the height at which i throw it out, depending on what the other guy is doing. i never do it from its full distance tho. too easy to read and the lag is really punishable then.

3. usmash as techchase... yeah i suppose. it used to work great back when everyone first started playing. you could dthrow or fthrow to usmash and ppl would get caught in it. but now everyone knows about brawl's crazy di, so getting in the usmash is a bit more difficult. it's gotta be aimed more precisely. i mainly use it at the ledge, or wherever they have no place to run. you can bait a ledge attack (you know, they're hanging off the ledge, and they do the getup attack), dash away, and dash back into the usmash. i use it very rarely and at high percents, so ppl i play against don't expect it that often, and it's always fresh, so if i can land it, it's usually a kill.

4. ah approaching. it should be easy but god**** brawl caters to the campers. i've gotten pretty good at dodging projectiles while still moving forward. i also attack from behind whenever i can. i'll mix up shad, dash attacks, and grabs alot. i dunno. i can approach pretty well but i guess i'm usually too high to remember what i'm doing.

5. pikachu's a *****. went to a tourney with some friends, got utilt spammed and lightninged to death. pretty gay. i did knee the ****er down to one stock tho, so i guess that's why he started the spam. i'd say grab him as much as possible. dsmash for the kill, and hide under platforms. i'd take pikachu to smashville and hide under the moving platform. i guess i'll go more indepth when he comes up in the matchup discussions.

as for teams, he's not the best team character for falcon. his projectiles really get in the way, and his attacks don't really setup for much of falcon's moveset. my gf plays pikachu every now and then, and we try to use the lightning to wall people into certain areas of the stage for me to do my ****, but it usually doesn't work that well.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

1) Its ok but I dont like it that much. I like battlefield better.

2) I dont really like it as an approach unless im desperate as its an easily punished attack. I usually approach with airdodges and then jab and grab stuff. I dont like it as an approach but more of a punish move as its a pretty long range attack.

3) Its alright but I dont realy like it that much. Its decent but its really easy to miss with and I dont really use it much maybe once or twice a match. Whats kool is you can do it after a grab release on some people.

4) I find the best ways to approach are B-air or air dodge and then doing like a jab or something.

5) I dunno much about pikachu havent played any good ones with my falcon yet.

 

[Roager]

Yoshi's Island: A decent stage, but I don't see the same benefits in mock waveland that you guys seem to. Granted, that's probably because I focus most of my practice on Battlefield and FD for all my characters, Falcon included. But, even so, it's a good stage, allowing for good uair spam and some nice recovery chances. I really hate the lack of stagespike though...

Falcon Kick: Not a bad move, but I see less use for it than most do. It techchases fairly well, and its priority isnt terrible, but aside from that, the only use I see is to drop down onto people from above.

Usmash... Not as a techchase. To techchase, I'd rather use Falcon Kick, Raptor Boost, or dash attack. Usmash has other uses, but since we're discussing it as a techchase... I'll save it for later.

Approaching... I guess just mix it up with SHAD, running spotdodge, Falcon Kick (ground or air), and bair/uair options. I don't know what there is to say that we don't already know. Best thing about falcon kick is that it clinks with a lot of projectiles, so if you see that coming, you can react faster than they do. Also, jump>falcon kick goes over many projectiles. Just be careful of the landing lag.

I hate Pikachu. Dmash, utilt, down B, normal B, its just a spamfest. Counterpick with something that has platforms, like smashville, BF, maybe Yoshi Island. As a team... Pika harms more than helps. Projectiles, while wonderfully spammy, are hardly easy to aim, so usually hit falcon. And with other pikaspam moves having fairly large hitboxes, Falcon often gets caught in them. Falcon and Pika just don't get along at all.

 

[Noodlehead]

1)yoshi island-incase some of y'all dont know ledge hop knees do work,it cancels if no one is in its range, but it can sweetspot. you cant get stuck under the stage using dive either.since the stage is small it gives quick death. stge spike is gone. uair anyone who goes on the platform

2)falcon kick-punishes rollers.you shouldn't use this too much,cause it can be shield grabbed, but if you spce it right its harder to shield grab. its an alright approach,but there are other better appraoches you can use

4)approaching-it depends what character your playing

5)pikachu- i'd counterpick bf. because the platforms block his downB. platforms also help you avoid projectiles.

 

[Wogrim]

1) Yoshi's Island
Not much special about it. I hate the Shy Guys.

2) Falcon Kick
Not too useful unless someone's rolling away (for which there are better options) or dashing towards you (you'll generally beat a dash attack and they rarely shield in time).

3) USmash techchase
Nice but getting the range right can be troublesome. Kills decently and great damage when it doesn't.

4) Approaching
Heavily dependent on the opponent, but in general mixing it up is key to success. If an opponent is attacking as you approach you should tilt/smash more to make them play more defensively. Once you get them to do that, UAir and AC DAir are probably the safest approaches. Both will help take down shields (so that you can shield poke with certain moves) and are fine on spotdodge/roll. Expect an opponent to try to punish you if one of these moves fails to land; punish them first or avoid & punish. For some characters letting them try to approach you is a better option.

5) Pikachu
Lylat: The moving ship makes it hard for Pikachu to up-B onto the ledge so they pretty much have to go straight for the stage; punish. Platforms can help with down-B. The slant can make it more difficult though.
Halberd: A platform and also unsafe for Pikachu to try to up-B to the ledge since the stage won't stop him (he has to space it right to land in the ledge-grab zone), although the ability to go through the bottom of the stage gives him a bit more options.
Delfino: Similar to Halberd.

 

[Face124]

Wow, this is great guys, so many responses in such little time, this might be done before the week is over. To build up a better idea of each I'm going ask some questions and make some statements in a mini first draught for each. Please answer/challenge anything I say, it will help speed along the discussion.

1) Definitely not a bad stage for Falcon, but how good is questionable. A lot of you have been saying that the lack of a stage spike is a big problem, despite the fact that at high level play most people can avoid it because of the fact that it is predictable and techable. Falcon Dive has that period when Falcon is latched onto you and appears to be ****** your face, that gives opponents time to think. It as a stage spike is pretty much out of the question because of that. B-air is less techable but more predictable, especially when an opponent is hanging on the ledge, since all they have to do is get up to avoid it, and you're put in a less favourable position. It is a downside, but not as major as some people are saying, since B-air has such a horizontal trajectory that it can act as a semi-spike if it isn't predicted and DI'ed properly. Some people are saying that Mock wave-land isn't that good, but it is. If you use it improperly it will get predictable and you will be punished. As simple as that. The long-ish startup lag on it has very low priority because it keeps some of RB's properties, so its about using it carefully, not using it.

1) This stage is one of my least favorites, because i frequently get gimped. >_< Seriously, with falcon's bad recovery, it's hard to grab the edge most of the time. You have to be really smart when your trying to get back on the stage here. I recommend staying under the platform, and going for the gimp a little less.

Please elaborate. I find it difficult to see how there is any difference to recovering from this stage than on another neutral, apart from the jump-up platform which should be a benefit as opposed to avoid. The only thing I can see taken away by this stage is a smooth wall jump, like the one on FD, and you can't use FK to get down for a low recovery, because of the risk of the platform jumping up and you getting punished for the landing lag. Obviously not a stage you would pick against Olimar, PT, Ganondorf, Mario, Link, Bowser, Ness or Ike because of their poor/gimpable recoveries. Ledge hopped Mock wave-land helps Falcon's ledge game slightly, but gets very punishable if repeated more than twice. Ledge hopping is limited to an extent on this stage, but not totally, and I think its safe to say that this stage is more of a help to Falcon's recovery than a burden.

I dislike the platform, because it's mostly too high for doing any shorthop stuff and it's hard to land a knee while it's permanently moving.

SH U-air? The only time in which you couldn't do that is if it was tilted upwards, in which case FH U-air. I disagree with the knee part completely, it doesn't permanently move and you can adapt by using SH or FH. Up-B through the platform at the tilted up part, makes it almost totally safe, but U-airs are generally better, unless you want the opponent off the stage. Mock wave-land can also be done on the platform, although it is of little use other than mock wave -taunt

The stage is rather small so it's not that much of an awful deal vs. chaingrabbers.

Agreed. Not the best, but certainly good, because not only is it, as Ville said, small enough to prevent huge damage and limit them somewhat, but also the platform on the middle allows Falcon to stay aerial safely, and its very easy to tech Falco's CG > Spike at the flat walls. The unevenness of the stage can sometimes mean an early escape, but don't bank on it.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl) seems like a good stage mostly for Falcon, but being a neutral there isn't too much to be said about it. The pop-up platforms allow Falcon to stay safer during recovery and help his gimping game, but only against those with recoveries better than him. Mock wave-land is a good bonus, (certainly a better bonus than the loss of a stage spike is a burden) but nothing game changing. Cg'ers are hurt to a limit by the size of the stage and the platform helps Falcon have aerial control, a definite strong point. Overall this seems like one of Falcon's better neutrals, but whether or not its the best is debatable.

I think its fair to say the kick is a poor move, but it does have its uses. Its ending lag is what lets it down, because simply you're going to get punished unless you use it at 50% +. The shield grab-ability of it combined with its predictability form long distance don't work well together, as you could imagine, but it is good for mixing up you're approaches and as a defensive move sometimes. One thing I can say is never spam it! Its so predictable with him shouting "FALCON KYCK" almost before its started and the altogether slowness of the move you will be punished. With all the air cancelling business going on there is potential for some new AT, but until then it will remain poor. It does seem to work well against an opponent dashing at you, as Player-3 said, but that will rarely occur against good opponents. It is quite good for punishing rolls and for techchasing, due to its long range, but not at lower percents because they will simply hit you back.

Recently there has been quite a lot of ledge cancelled stuff. I see no practical use for this so far other than mindgames. Firstly, the combos, never going to happen in a real game. LC jump can be a great surprise against high recoverer's, and so can LC U-air/ledgegrab against lows hoping to SS the ledge, but its not going to happen more than once. The GFSC with it is a nice 24%/25%, but nothing major really. Aerial Falcon kick is of more use than grounded IMO, as it can break through air strings, has superior knockback and is great if you want to recover low and are high.

Altogether Falcon kick isn't a great attack. Almost unviable at low percents when grounded due to heavy cooldown lag, and since there tends to be a better option at most times this isn't a move you should rely on. It, as most attacks do, has some uses, like its ability to punish rolls and techs and the ledge cancelling stuff. The GFSC and the recovering low things also, but none of these make up for its general badness. The aerial FK, on the other hand, is great for damage, is unpunishable if it connects and is a good string breaker. It gets predictable to, unfortunately, and will be punished heavily. Again, this is a poor attack overall, but don't dismiss it completely.

I'll edit in U-smash as a techchase when I get the time.

 

[Lareit]

1. I don't find it to work in falcon's favor at all. It doesn't take long for people to predict mock wave lands which is basically an inferior version of fox/falco phantom dash. Short chrs are often given the advantage even further due to the unevenness of the stage. The long platform gives good cover for campy chrs. My least favorite Neutral by far.

2. I love Falcon Kick. It's a big part of my damage game. Great for punishing people who approach aerially. Great for punishing people who projectile short hop approach or retreat. Great for punishing people who roll alot. Great for punishing people when no other move will reach in time. Great for tech chasing F/D throw's at low %. Just wish it didn't have so much freakin lag.

3. Small chrs slip out of the 2nd hit too often. Against medium and larger it's the ideal tech chase in falcon's arsenal. Lot of ending lag on the move though. I rarely am in a habit of using it against anyone but DK and DDD reliably. Not a whole lot to say about Tech chasing.

4. Falcon's approach is determined by who he's fighting and how that chr is playing. Truthfully, due to falcon's speed and great aerial mobility he has alot of options. Due to his bad priority and range they're just not that great.

5. Battlefield and Jungle Japes.

 

[Prez08]

Please elaborate. I find it difficult to see how there is any difference to recovering from this stage than on another neutral, apart from the jump-up platform which should be a benefit as opposed to avoid. The only thing I can see taken away by this stage is a smooth wall jump, like the one on FD, and you can't use FK to get down for a low recovery, because of the risk of the platform jumping up and you getting punished for the landing lag. Obviously not a stage you would pick against Olimar, PT, Ganondorf, Mario, Link, Bowser, Ness or Ike because of their poor/gimpable recoveries. Ledge hopped Mock wave-land helps Falcon's ledge game slightly, but gets very punishable if repeated more than twice. Ledge hopping is limited to an extent on this stage, but not totally, and I think its safe to say that this stage is more of a help to Falcon's recovery than a burden.

Maybe it's just me, but YI is the stage where I am gimped most of the time. I have trouble recovering, even with the pop up platform. Imo, it is very hard to recover on any neural stage, and with Falcon's edge game being super punishable here, this stage makes it worse. The pop up platform is not always there, so maybe relying on that so much isn't such a good idea. Ledge hopping only works on this stage if your opponent is really close because of the curve. (I think, not so sure)

 

[Player-3]

1. I don't find it to work in falcon's favor at all. It doesn't take long for people to predict mock wave lands which is basically an inferior version of fox/falco phantom dash. Short chrs are often given the advantage even further due to the unevenness of the stage. The long platform gives good cover for campy chrs. My least favorite Neutral by far.

2. I love Falcon Kick. It's a big part of my damage game. Great for punishing people who approach aerially. Great for punishing people who projectile short hop approach or retreat. Great for punishing people who roll alot. Great for punishing people when no other move will reach in time. Great for tech chasing F/D throw's at low %. Just wish it didn't have so much freakin lag.

3. Small chrs slip out of the 2nd hit too often. Against medium and larger it's the ideal tech chase in falcon's arsenal. Lot of ending lag on the move though. I rarely am in a habit of using it against anyone but DK and DDD reliably. Not a whole lot to say about Tech chasing.

4. Falcon's approach is determined by who he's fighting and how that chr is playing. Truthfully, due to falcon's speed and great aerial mobility he has alot of options. Due to his bad priority and range they're just not that great.

5. Battlefield and Jungle Japes.

how so? his recovery is far superior to falcons in terms of horizontal movement, thunder spam still possible almost everywhere, ill give you that his projectile is useless here, but seriously. Why CP japes against a 'chu?

 

[Face124]

1. I don't find it to work in falcon's favor at all. It doesn't take long for people to predict mock wave lands which is basically an inferior version of fox/falco phantom dash. Short chrs are often given the advantage even further due to the unevenness of the stage. The long platform gives good cover for campy chrs. My least favorite Neutral by far.

Mock wave-land is still a plus, and they only predict it if you use it predictably >.> . What? How are they given an advantage? So maybe they can , like, duck or something at the two ledges. so what? That makes so little difference its pretty much not a valid point at all. No, its quite small actually, and theres a big platform in the middle. The non stupid reason not to go on the stage is further amplified by Final Destination, which has no platform and is bigger, so it can't be your worst neutral.

 

[Lareit]

how so? his recovery is far superior to falcons in terms of horizontal movement, thunder spam still possible almost everywhere, ill give you that his projectile is useless here, but seriously. Why CP japes against a 'chu?

High ceiling limits many of his ko options.
The water prevents him from delaying Quick Attack to avoid easy edge guard.
The seperation of platforms makes camping difficult.
Plus I find Japes a good level for falcon. Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost have lots of freedom here.



@Face

I've had too many Pickachu's and Ness's miss my Forward Tilt and Jabs simply because I was on the higher incline and they were on the lower. It's a small issue but it does occur.

I actually dislike the big platform in the middle. I tend to approach aerially and from behind and the platform disrupts that. I agree FD is a bad stage for falcon against anything with a projectile but I still would prefer it over Yoshi's.

 

[Player-3]

High ceiling limits many of his ko options.
The water prevents him from delaying Quick Attack to avoid easy edge guard.
The seperation of platforms makes camping difficult.
Plus I find Japes a good level for falcon. Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost have lots of freedom here.

Good points, i think ill try cping a 'chu there if i ever face one

but japes is nowhere near as good as for falcon/DK
X_X

NEVER EVER play one of them there
you will llose unless they cant play there, if you play one of them, BAN IT

 

[Zeallyx]

Good points, i think ill try cping a 'chu there if i ever face one

but japes is nowhere near as good as for falcon/DK
X_X

NEVER EVER play one of them there
you will llose unless they cant play there, if you play one of them, BAN IT

you mean falco right

no beef

 

[Player-3]

you mean falco right

no beef

Yes. yes i did

and about the techchasing usmash thing

i just do a running usmash because i dont have fast fingers, which is prolly why i never use it xD

 

[Roager]

I thought that's what we were discussing... Hyphen Usmash = Running Usmash, doesnt it? Or is it a JC usmash?

 

[Lareit]

Good points, i think ill try cping a 'chu there if i ever face one

but japes is nowhere near as good as for falcon/DK
X_X

NEVER EVER play one of them there
you will llose unless they cant play there, if you play one of them, BAN IT

Oh I'm well aware of the Falco and DK shenanigans.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Yoshis Island, too small, Shuy guys get in the way.

FK is certainly not what it used to be. I would jsut thow one out there to surprise my opposition.

U smash as a tech chase will hit about 50% of the time, to me there are better options out there.

Approaching, ill get back to you one that later.

Pikachu is a small annoying target that is only good when spams. I find grabs usefull.

this thread is added to the index.

 

[Face124]

@Face

I've had too many Pickachu's and Ness's miss my Forward Tilt and Jabs simply because I was on the higher incline and they were on the lower. It's a small issue but it does occur.

I actually dislike the big platform in the middle. I tend to approach aerially and from behind and the platform disrupts that. I agree FD is a bad stage for falcon against anything with a projectile but I still would prefer it over Yoshi's.

Sorry, off course you entitled to your opinion.

I thought that's what we were discussing... Hyphen Usmash = Running Usmash, doesnt it? Or is it a JC usmash?

yes, hyphen U-smash = running u-smash

Yoshis Island, too small, Shuy guys get in the way.

FK is certainly not what it used to be. I would jsut thow one out there to surprise my opposition.

U smash as a tech chase will hit about 50% of the time, to me there are better options out there.

Approaching, ill get back to you one that later.

Pikachu is a small annoying target that is only good when spams. I find grabs usefull.

this thread is added to the index.

Good :D

Please more people help me perfect the sum-ups, at the top of page 2.

 

[Prez08]

When are we moving to next week?

/bump

 

[Player-3]

yes, hyphen U-smash = running u-smash

seriously?...
whys it called a hyphen smash then lol
nevermind i guess im thinking of the DACUS.. i cant even mortar slide

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I've been testing RARing most of falcon's gimps, because falcon has better horizontal DI in the direction he falcon dives towards, and I think I found a more effective gimp tactic. Doing a RARed flubbed knee to gimp is VERY DEADLY, you can lead into a uair off of it as always, or you can falcon dive, recovering and possibly snagging your opponent for a fast stage spike.

But here's the kicker. RAR > Flubbed knee > Uair > FALCON DIVE THE OPPONENT AS THEY STAGE SPIKE OMG

I've done it 6/7 times tried. Its a great combo since the stage spike carries so much hitstun on it. It also kicks a techer's butt with ANOTHER STAGE SPIKE.
Just keep in mind that you gotta do it fast, but even if you miss you'll just go back to the ledge so it's no biggie.

Also, if you're up a stock or feeling adventurous, at low percents you can try to dair spike somebody you stage spiked with falcon dive. They fall under you, so its really easy, and if their recovery hurts you out of it you can always recover/stage spike again.

oh yeah and did I mention how badly this ***** Ike?

 

[Zeallyx]

I've been testing RARing most of falcon's gimps, because falcon has better horizontal DI in the direction he falcon dives towards, and I think I found a more effective gimp tactic. Doing a RARed flubbed knee to gimp is VERY DEADLY, you can lead into a uair off of it as always, or you can falcon dive, recovering and possibly snagging your opponent for a fast stage spike.

But here's the kicker. RAR > Flubbed knee > Uair > FALCON DIVE THE OPPONENT AS THEY STAGE SPIKE OMG

I've done it 6/7 times tried. Its a great combo since the stage spike carries so much hitstun on it. It also kicks a techer's butt with ANOTHER STAGE SPIKE.
Just keep in mind that you gotta do it fast, but even if you miss you'll just go back to the ledge so it's no biggie.

Also, if you're up a stock or feeling adventurous, at low percents you can try to dair spike somebody you stage spiked with falcon dive. They fall under you, so its really easy, and if their recovery hurts you out of it you can always recover/stage spike again.

oh yeah and did I mention how badly this ***** Ike?

Good stuff I've been doing this also..but didn't give it as much thought as you did. Again, good stuff man.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Good stuff I've been doing this also..but didn't give it as much thought as you did. Again, good stuff man.

No problem. I'm gonna use this on some of the better Ikes I know. Hopefully, this'll change the matchup to be alot easier for falcon.

Oh yeah and this just goes to prove that Falcon > Ganon in off stage gimping.

 

[Player-3]

I've been testing RARing most of falcon's gimps, because falcon has better horizontal DI in the direction he falcon dives towards, and I think I found a more effective gimp tactic. Doing a RARed flubbed knee to gimp is VERY DEADLY, you can lead into a uair off of it as always, or you can falcon dive, recovering and possibly snagging your opponent for a fast stage spike.

But here's the kicker. RAR > Flubbed knee > Uair > FALCON DIVE THE OPPONENT AS THEY STAGE SPIKE OMG

I've done it 6/7 times tried. Its a great combo since the stage spike carries so much hitstun on it. It also kicks a techer's butt with ANOTHER STAGE SPIKE.
Just keep in mind that you gotta do it fast, but even if you miss you'll just go back to the ledge so it's no biggie.

Also, if you're up a stock or feeling adventurous, at low percents you can try to dair spike somebody you stage spiked with falcon dive. They fall under you, so its really easy, and if their recovery hurts you out of it you can always recover/stage spike again.

oh yeah and did I mention how badly this ***** Ike?

never thought of RARing the flubber..
ill have to try this

 

[Face124]

lol. Won't it only work at a certain window of percent though?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

lol. Won't it only work at a certain window of percent though?

What will work?

If you're talking about flub > uair, then you can just recover and gimp off the ledge.
If you're talking about Falcon Dive stage spiking, I believe it starts spiking at the 20s%, which is basically two hits from falcon.
If you're talking about uair stage spiking, well... they'll get pushed to the stage and be forced into using their recovery move, and under FD could mean they're preoccupied with spacing their recovery to get back, leading to a Falcon Dive guaranteed stage spike. Even if it doesn't, you'll recover and have the ledge to work with.