The Chain Gang - G&W Chaingrab discussion

[Hamman88]

It seems that there are no concrete specifics on any chaingrabs G&W has on other cast members, most notably his chain grab on species and fast fallers.

If we could make this a place were exact details can be discussed about each specific chain grab, for how many/which throws it works for, to what percent, how to react to any possible DI, and the best according punishes for ending the grab.


I can start by saying that G&W can chaingrab Roy at 0% with upthrow, for about three throws, before roy can escape, at which point its generally best to punish with a nair or upair to -> something. The timing is not as fast as per-say the space animal chaingrab, but it is easier for roy to DI out of, and you generally need to make a read, as to which direction roy will DI, either to the left or right, and follow up with a short dash -> JC grab, or pivot grab. It's good to note, that during the chaingrab, in addition to predicting the opponents DI, if in a quiet enough enviroment, you can listen to wether or not the opponent keeps pressing L or R in an attempt to tech the downthrow, if you notice they stop after the second or third upthrow, and if they don't know the limitations of the chaingrab, you can do a dthrow into jab reset into judgement. note this applies to any and all chaingrabs G&W has, although it is to be noted that not all characters can be forced to standup after the downthrow, in which case the best punish is a quick dtilt or dsmash.

In terms of the spacie chaingrab, I'm unsure as to the exact details, obviously it is competed with upthrow, and for the first few throws, about to ~20%, the regrab has to be done almost immediatley after realease, or else the grab will come out too slow. Unfortunately, due to the disappointing issue of nofriends.jpeg, I have been unable to do any proper lab work on how long the chaingrab works when the fox mixes up DI and how soon the can escape it, all I know is that with no DI, against a moronic opponent (why are they even playing fox??) the chaingrab continues to ~64%, at which point, I like to go all marth on their ass, and throw in a few uptilt to regrab, and upair to regrab, and finish with a fair or nair. you can also do the aforementioned dthrow tactic.
[If someone could fill in more information about this chaingrab, whether or not it works with other throws, and the influence of DI]

I am unaware of any other chaingrabs G&W has on other cast members, I've hear a rumor of a "pretty devastating" one on CF, but ive never made any headway with it, which would be great to know as im really sick of CF downthrow -> knee for 4-freaking-stocks. If you know of any not listed, post below, any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Shockbound]

Even if a chainthrow normally ends after 3 grabs or so, G&W's F-throw and B-throw have the unique property of having an extremely wide sending angle that reacts very strongly to DI. It is extremely reactive to DI, but this is a good thing because you can read their DI and respond with F-throw or B-throw in the direction opposite to the one you think they are trying to DI in. Done correctly, the opponent will not be sent very far and will usually be within grab range. If they smash DI, they get sent straight upwards.

G&W's throws all look the same, so you can use this to employ mindgames on your opponent by making them think that their DI isn't working. They cannot tell what throw was actually used, so they have no idea how to DI it in the future. In a chaingrab, once the guaranteed throws run their course you can start to mess with your opponent in this way.

Their first reaction will usually be to DI in order to get behind you. Use F-Throw and the throw will end up looking as if it were a weak Up-throw with no DI. On the next grab, they'll be thinking "okay maybe I just messed up the DI" and will try it again. Another apparent no-DI Up-Throw. The next grab will be tough to read because at this point they'll just be flicking their control stick back and forth in both directions so that they can get in as many SDI inputs as they can. There's an audio cue from the opponent's controller that is similar to the sound it would make if they were dash-dancing. This is where you can employ the D-Throw; they're too busy trying to SDI to think about teching (most of the time, anyway). After this point, anything goes. It will depend on the player that you're against and how familiar you are with their style of play.

Other variations of this include constant SDI in a single direction every time while timing tech appropriately. This gives you an advantage because you know what they're doing without having to guess what their DI is; they still have to guess what throw you're doing, so you control every element of the chaingrab. There's also an audio cue for this, albeit somewhat hard to hear. The opponent will be smacking the stick at a regular rythm, but it'll be a noticeably slower one than back-and-forth SDI.

The most common reaction is just a repeated circular rotation on the control and C sticks while teching. It's not readable, but you still have the advantage here because they have as much an idea about where they're going as you do. This means you also have the same amount of time to react to their DI as they do, which is good for you because they're in hitstun and you are not. This usually has an audio cue to go along with it; SDI mashing can be very noisy in person. Up-throw should be used in this scenario since it has a very narrow DI angle.

If your opponent doesn't fully understand the properties of G&W's F-throw and B-throw, they will get the impression that you just used Up-throw. However, F-throw and B-throw can be recognized by how weakly they send upwards; a normal Up-throw is always going to send them higher. This weaker launch is what can make F-throw and B-throw such powerful options at the end of guaranteed chaingrabs because they can potentially extend or even double its duration with some good reading, whereas an Up-throw would let them act before they got in grab range again.

TL;DR

F-throw or B-throw in the direction opposite to the one you think they are trying to DI in.

The following is an example of reacting to the most typical DI:

STEP 1: Grab the opponent.
STEP 2: Throw all guaranteed chaingrabs.
STEP 3: Use F-throw for the last one and grab them again if they don't go anywhere.
STEP 4: Do that again.
STEP 5: Use D-throw and jab.
STEP 6: If the jab landed, grab them again. If it missed because they techrolled behind you, turn around and grab them again. If it missed because they stationary teched, wait and grab them again. DACUS if they techroll away.
STEP 7: Use B-throw.
STEP 8: Return to comboing them with aerials.
STEP 9: Wait for their respawn invincibility to expire, then return to step 1.

 

[Shoto]

Even though this is a short thread, I've learned quite a bit from it, and I can't wait to apply it to my gameplay. Yes, I recognized with G&W's b-throws and f-throws that it sends them at weird angles. After watching Dakpo for a bit, its fairly easy to get nair from one of those throws for a decent kill.

 

[Juushichi]

Yep, I remember saying exactly what Shockbound said in a tl;dr version a while ago.

In general, I would start CGs with F or B throw depending on where you think they'll DI, extra points if they're heavy weights+FF (like Falcon/Roy/MK) and then U throw once you get started.

 

[jtm94]

I have a very hard time chaingrabbing Fox/Falco now in 3.5. I don't think my reaction speed is fast enough to act.