The Character Potential Thread

[Napilopez]

Title says it all.

I looked around for threads speaking of character Potential, but couldn't seem to find one. I am NOT asking for a straight up tier discussion or a flame war(is there a difference? lol). You can talk, however, about how you may think some characters may move up or down the list in the months and years to come, if you cite viable enough reasons. I just wan't your opinions as to which characters have the most potential for the future, and which characters you think has a more stagnating metagame.

My opinions

Most potential:
ICs: As always. Desynching=infinite possibilities. Also, there are simply too few people maining them to really improve their metagame hugely.

Sonic: Call me biased, but Sonic has tons of unrelinquished potential. Recently, especially now that the Sonic boards are kind of doing more serious work amidst all the steak jokes, I feel Sonic has been doing better in general. The potential with Sonic isn't so much about new ATs or techniques in general, but rather, people actually learning to PLAY SMASH(lol, thnx tenki) with him and taking advantage of his hugest attribute, running speed.

Can't think of anyone else right now.

As for those with a more stagnating metagame...
I think metaknight. I don't think he'll be moved from the top spot anytime soon, if ever. But I don't see anything siginificantly important or any huge developments in Metaknights gameplay as opposed to some other characters. Because he doesn't need there to be any. The metagame is Meta's game.

Your opinions?

 

[Jim Morrison]

meta knight
but really, i agree with sonic, his normal B just out of random is ignored so much.
Also charizard could really do more

 

[Delta_BP26]

Pokemon Trainer. I don't know what it is about him, but he looks so versatile and adaptable, and seems to have a ton of untapped potential.

 

[Snowbird]

Link for sure. I've seen him ****. And I want to say PT but I dont know. Whoever said meta knight is sadly probably correct.

 

[Napilopez]

Link for sure. I've seen him ****. And I want to say PT but I dont know. Whoever said meta knight is sadly probably correct.

He was kidding about meta XD. Metaknight is a great character who in my opinion is dependent on generally being a good smasher, only that because so many of his basic properties are so great(attack speed, "priority", recover, grabs, faux-combos, etc), he becomes a great character. I really can't see much improving with the character's playability except for the smashers getting better themselves, and perhaps more knowledgable.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I agree with IC, Sonic, and PT having more potential. I'd also like to add in Jigglypuff, she is under used and I think she has more potential, same with Zelda.

 

[Binx]

Metaknight and Ice Climbers, Metaknight will likely stay the best in the game, he has excellent everything and he is very easy to use as well. Ice Climbers given enough practice to reliably desynch and pressure with one climber with the added bonus of controlling Nana's actions better as well as a 0-death chain throw vs EVERY character makes Ice Climbers easily the best. But like melee they have a low base of users and are incredibly difficult to use effectively.

 

[choknater]

I still don't think Metaknight has reached full potential yet.

I agree with Sonic and PT.

Yoshi, Pikachu, and Kirby also I think have room for greater ability.

 

[Napilopez]

You guys basically mimicked my thoughts that I had been to lazy to think of =P Yoshi can be very difficult to use, and has alot of potential. As does pikachu.

 

[FBM]

I'll go with my bias and say ZSS. Just the fact that people say she has a bad recovery shows how little the community at large knows about her...

From what I hear, Sonic and Yoshi have a lot of potential too, but I've never really played them or met anyone who does seriously.

 

[Linkshot]

This might end up a little biased:

Lucario.

Aura Boosts, incredibly ranged fSmash that tips, combo haven, air mindgames with dAir. He's flat out amazing. And if you can mindgame your opponent into trying to get sucker hits in from a distance, you get even stronger. Wallclinging from recovery. Neutral B, fully charged, breaks Mach Tornado. Excellent team partner.

Comments on Lucario (pros and cons) greatly appreciated. This is a discussion, remember, not a "lol, my chr is btr n i wont let u say nething els"

 

[PKSkyler]

Olimar is just great.... and arnt they trying to figure out a glitch where he can upsmash with a pikmin from afar?

Link....his gale boomerang can kill (ive done it once) by hitting the opponent with it while its coming back and then you dodge it...it goes really fast, but you could probably get out of it anyway.

Ness` PK Fire is really weird.....and does a lot of neat things w/ b-stick.

 

[Linkshot]

Olimar does have amazing potential. Before Brawl was released in NA, my cousin saw a 0-death Olimar combo vid, and from that day forth, he has mained Olimar. His Pikmin give him so much variety.

Ness' PK Fire alone can lead into various combos.

Zero Suit Samus has good edgegame potential: UpB spike, dSmash to DownB spike.

Link's Gale Boomerang is a good idea, it just goes so fast that it rushes through the opponent (while pushing them slightly. Plus, they're in midair. You'd have to position in perfectly, and it can be airdodged.

EDIT: I have a replay of CPU Level 9 Link killing himself with a reflected Gale Boomerang. Epic luls.

 

[IDK]

meta knight
but really, i agree with sonic, his normal B just out of random is ignored so much.
Also charizard could really do more

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196409
look at the 8th post by shikamaru.
also you have 69 posts.

this sounds like a thread talking about who has the best metagame doesn't it? it reminds me of trying to make a first look tier list the day i got brawl.

 

[Chis]

Sonic by far in my opinion.

 

[Napilopez]

I wouldn't say sonic by far... but definately ton of it.

Also, in case it wasn't clear enough, this doesn not mean that sonic or the ICs will be top tier 3 years from now, rather its just an evaluation on who will be making the best imrpovements.

Its not about which character has the best metagame, its about which character has the most room for improvement and to make an impact on the tournament seen, once its full potential begins to be approached. XD

 

[Tenki]

Sonic: Call me biased, but Sonic has tons of unrelinquished potential. Recently, especially now that the Sonic boards are kind of doing more serious work amidst all the steak jokes, I feel Sonic has been doing better in general. The potential with Sonic isn't so much about new ATs or techniques in general, but rather, people actually learning to PLAY SMASH(lol, thnx tenki) with him and taking advantage of his hugest attribute, running speed.

Eh, to an extent, with actual data starting to come up (lol all of FD in 55-60 frames?! u carzy lulss), 'speed' will start to matter or make more of a difference in matchup discussions.

To that, I think Sonic players are getting better overall, like, as a community. If there's any development, I think it'll be in the followups/mindgames department, but you know how disliked that is when it comes to character analysis.

If this develops as I think, Sonic's 'character' potential will remain just about the same, but the extent of which the players can use his traits to manipulate the momentum of the game will probably expand.

Just for the lulz

2. Instead of measuring match outcomes, tiers are more a measurement of potential of characters against the rest of the cast in a competitive, 1v1 tournament environment. It shows general strength of a character's abilities in a specific tournament environment. So yes, maybe Yoshi is a beast in teams or Ganon is REALLY good with items turned on... but this list measures somethingd different than those things.
...
And without further ado, I present to you the official SBR Brawl Tier List (v1.0):

Top
Meta Knight
Snake
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
R.O.B.

High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Diddy
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Sheik

Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Captain Falcon

XD

 

[ph00tbag]

Sonic has more potential, from what I can tell, but not as much as many. A lack of reliable KO moves plus poor range and set-ups for the few that come close mean there's only so far he can go. His ability to win is highly situational, and requires near perfect play from the person using him. He has potential, but not enough to compensate for the amount of time and energy needed to tap it.

I do have to say PT has a lot of potential, but it's going to take a lot of knowledge about when each pokemon will become fatigued and an ability to find good times to transform. This also means, and I literally never see a PT that can do this, that the user absolutely must be able to play all three at their highest level, even Squirtle. I think it can be done, but there are very few people willing to take the time to do it.

Metaknight has nowhere to go but up. If he doesn't have the best everything, he has the second best of whatever he isn't the best at. He is so good. I think he'll continue to develop, because his potential still hasn't been tapped.

But personally, out of all of the characters I've mentioned, I think IC's are the only character that truly have the potential to dominate the metagame. The only issue is the prohibitive costs of getting them to that point. Like Sonic, their learning curve is massive, probably the biggest in the game. The question that remains is, is their potential so great that the learning curve won't prevent it, or will they be relegated to the few that have the time to devote to them, like Sonic? I don't know, but that just speaks to the scope of their potential, and of their learning curve.

 

[Linkshot]

I wholeheartedly agree with IC having the greatest potential. However, their potential, I fear, once mastered by most, will become banned in tournament situations. I.E.: 0-death on everybody will definitely be regulated to a point. Not even Meta Knight has such potential, and there's talk about him being banned.

So, as potential grows, the closer it gets to the cutoff point where they can no longer use it because it's too powerful.

 

[Blad01]

From what i see, i would say Ness, Toon Link (that's maybe because i never saw a REALLY good toon link, since i didn't research one ), Snake, Peach, Sheik and most of all Samus.

 

[IShotLazer]

Sonic isn't going to get much better.
He is extremely limited.
Running speed is always a plus however in Brawl it doesn't mean to much.
Brawl is largly an aerial dominated game and sonic doesn't move extremely fast in the air and lacks to projectiles to take someone else out of the air effectively. His aerial range is very limited as well, and most of his attacks are pretty laggy in the air and don't have any other good attribute dishing out a lot of knockback. His grab range is a bit more limited than one would think too and the timing is awkward. Things combo decently with him however they don't actually dish out a lot of damage. As a side note he has very few gimp options so your ability to punish a stupid mistake just isn't there.

MK is going to keep going up and up. He isn't losing his place in the tiers.

PT, might have potential however if the other person is playing a pressuring game its near impossible to switch for situations.

Also, I don't really understand what's so wrong with Samus...
Her game isn't extremely lacking in any quality.
She has great ground attacks. Gimp potential. Projectile game. Combos very well. She is decently heavy and she doesn't even have a bad recovery.
She definitely could do better on the tier list. I say she is now.

 

[CR4SH]

Fire Jump Punch

/bias

 

[Tenki]

Sonic isn't going to get much better.
He is extremely limited.
Running speed is always a plus however in Brawl it doesn't mean to much. [..?]
Brawl is largly an aerial dominated game and sonic doesn't move extremely fast in the air and lacks to projectiles to take someone else out of the air effectively. His aerial range is very limited as well, and most of his attacks are pretty laggy in the air and don't have any other good attribute dishing out a lot of knockback. His grab range is a bit more limited than one would think too and the timing is awkward. Things combo decently with him however they don't actually dish out a lot of damage [..?]. As a side note he has very few gimp options so your ability to punish a stupid mistake just isn't there.

I struck out the wrong assumptions and things that don't matter to people who are actually familiar with the character lol.

- Okay, let's assume (and it seems that the true numbers ARE very close to this) that Sonic can run across FD in around 60 frames (1 second)

half of FD in 30 frames.
1/4 of FD (eg, a little longer than "out of melee range" spacing) in 15 frames.

Think of your favorite aerial, tilt, or smash, and miss slightly. [less than 1/4 of FD between your attack and Sonic]

But you're right to an extent: running speed for ANYONE except for Sonic (and I believe Falcon is slow) really doesn't matter too much.

- Laggy attacks in the air: B-air. D-air is arguable, but that's generally not a move that you start near your opponent anyway.

- Again, considering how a Sonic player can control spacing with his run, grab range issues are almost negligible, and at the least, it's better than Falcon's grab range. "Awkward timing" doesn't apply to anyone competent with the character. I like his grabs. They don't feel awkward to me.

- Let's try a Sonic two-move "combo": [ASC double hit] > N-air [sweetspot]. [11, 7, 11] = 29 damage. It's somewhat spammable, and N-air can be replaced by U-air, F-air, or B-air. How many MK U-airs is that? :l


Anyway, Sonic's game is a very "player"-based game. Mindgames, mobility, blahblah. None of that matters in the character-matchup discussions. But Sonic mains will develop these, and take advantage of them when limiting your options. It's really interesting to watch the development of this. The "techniques" found for Sonic all lend themselves to player/mindgame abuse, and here's the thing - the "best players" among the Sonic players aren't necessarily up to the same skill level as say, the "best players" among Lucario, Ike, Zelda, or even Wario players. As the players get better, the applied usage for the techniques, moves, and spacing will get better. Sloppiness in gameplay will decrease, and we'll finally start to see what we can pull off with the tools that Sonic offers.

which is pretty much why I said this before:

If this develops as I think, Sonic's 'character' potential will remain just about the same, but the extent of which the players can use his traits to manipulate the momentum of the game will probably expand.

quite the extremes, really.

 

[HeroMystic]

Personally, I think all characters has some untapped potential. The Link boards feel like they're getting new ATs and techniques everyday (and the bomb jump is still in the works), the Ike boards recently discovered a new AT, and the Mario boards are just now starting to discuss his true potential in his moveset and ATs.

However, that doesn't mean other boards aren't staying where they're at either. The Metaknight boards are still able to be amazed by what the top MK users can do, and I recently read that Snake got a new AT that'll be super-useful for doubles.

In which case, it's too early to say that characters has been used at maximum potiential (The game hasn't been out for a year yet), but other characters, especially the ones on low and mid tier, have much more potiential to tap on. It just has to be found.

 

[whopper_no_onion]

PT, Sonic,Samus, and ICs are the most obvious.

Pit, Luigi, Mario, Ness, Lucas... I feel that they need to develop a bit more imo.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yo anybody like sushi?


Yoshi's got potential.

DR tricks, CG's, Decent edge game with the ECE's, Back air ****.
Egg lay tricks
Infinites >.>

Yoshi got teh moar potential den teh Sonic, cuz yoshi has teh sturf dat hasunt been brought out to full throttle yet (DR).

While Sonic's potential liez moar in deh Mind games and sturf.

 

[Mrdc]

Toon Link.
He's well rounded, excellent in the air, has decent recovery, has many projectiles, but unfortunately lacks reliable kill moves.

This shows his potential to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shqCX-fnSlg

 

[Sosuke]

I think Link could **** pretty hard.
(yes, not Toon Link, although hes the best. >_>)

Link has a LOT of potential imo.

 

[Napilopez]

If this develops as I think, Sonic's 'character' potential will remain just about the same, but the extent of which the players can use his traits to manipulate the momentum of the game will probably expand.

QFT. Thats pretty much it. Few if any ATs to be found out, I doubt there will even be a huge surge of new set-ups. Just players developing their own styles and bringing their own potential out with Sonic.

Link has potential too. As said before, I think Yoshi has tons of room to at least become awesomer.

 

[Amide]

Lol at people naming their mains... I think that PT has potential, but it will most likely be wasted because nobody plays him. Yoshi is good against MK... But he's Yoshi lol.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Pokemon Trainer and Diddy Kong.

 

[Matador]

Characters with the higher learning curve generally have the most potential, I'm finding. The only exception is MK, since it takes less to be good, but takes alot of effort to become great and utilize all of his strengths. Characters like Marth, Sonic,, Link, and Snake fall into this category while characters like DDD, Fox, Mario and Falco sit on the outskirts.

My opinion of course.

 

[Binx]

I'll repeat again for the tl;dr people. Metaknight is easy to use and easily the best in the game and will probably stay that way.

Ice Climbers with good pivot desynching will be able to space well and throw out long range blizzards and block with nana at correct times against most characters and be able to grab then and follow up with 0-death vs anyone. Only characters with reflectors can really counter this assuming near perfect character control because shielding, or being hit means being grabbed.

So basically Ice Climbers have the most potential, Metaknight has the most potential people will actually use.

 

[Linkshot]

Ice Climbers also can't get grabbed, so that shuts down chaingrabs. Alright, they can get grabbed, but Nana will punish hard for such, and then the offender will find himself in an inescapable death combo.

 

[Napilopez]

Perfect Desynched ICs sounds very scary... ICs in general are scary. I mean tis 2v1! =P

 

[Denzi]

Perfect Desynched ICs sounds very scary... ICs in general are scary. I mean tis 2v1! =P

Yup. IC's = most potential.

 

[_X_]

I think Fox has a lot of unseen greatness. Personally I think he should trade places with Wolf.

 

[DanGR]

Are we talking untapped potential here? *remembers Amanita's ICs and Reflex's PT*

 

[Yankee]

The characters i see have the most potential are link, zero suit samus, lucas, ness, pokemon trainer, and yoshi. All of them are underrated and characters like pokemon trainer really havent been pursued that much. May be a little biased because i main lucas and used to main zss, but i dont care. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Napilopez]

Are we talking untapped potential here? *remembers Amanita's ICs and Reflex's PT*

Untapped potential indeed XD. Are those two from a recent tourny?