The "clones" have been decloned.

[bluekitsune13]

Everybody's upset about the clones in Brawl, I know I am. The 35 characters I can live with, it's just that they decided to (more or less) keep the cloned characters' movesets. I didn't see a thread like this before, so I thought I'd do the liberty of making one. After watching the various videos out there I see that not all the clones are completely the same.


In this first one, at around 4:00, you see Falco throw his reflector!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9xKVsegWE

Other than that though, I didn't notice any other noticable changes. He still uses the Fire Falco Up B, and Fox's Up Smash. Plus his Final Smash is unfortunately the same. I'm hoping that his blaster and Side B is different.


Here's Ness in his target test. He looks virtually unchanged from his Melee self. You can see him using his Up Smash yo-yo, which is different than Lucas's Up Smash.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GAU1cSkE8T8

Again, this shows that there is some variety in clones. Lucas and Ness will probably be the most varied of the clones (besides maybe Ganondorf and Capn. Falcon). They do share the same Final Smash though


Now let's look at Ganondorf. For the most part his aerials look the same as Falcon's. However his Up B looks like an uppercut of sorts, and it actually breaks targets (unlike Falcon's Up B).

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9sZ7NvHh0

Other than that, I can't see much different.


Lastly here's WW Link. Around 0:29 you see him do his Down A Aerial, and it seems to actually move him, and slam him down towards the ground very fast. At 0:38 WW Link throws his boomerang, which looks like it's just a regular boomerang. It doesn't suck up people like Link's Gale Boomerang.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=z8N1-9T4qks

Other than that, I don't see much difference in attacks beside his speed. He's a lot faster than Young Link was in Melee.


The only one left is Wolf, which doesn't have any videos yet. There are only two screenshots I saw. One of his clear screen, and another of his Final Smash (which is a red landmaster... original...). I wonder if he'll be a semi-clone of Fox too, or perhaps somebody else? Maybe his own original character?

 

[Sukai]

Marth Has some sort of Stabbing move
around 1:23 he does it, it replaces his original shield breaker in Melee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMMJ55UOZI
But then again Marth's not a clone...

 

[AustiniusRex]

i have a theory. All clones have the same final smashes, this means that I expect luigi to have the same FS as mario. I'm not sure about Marth and Ike because they arent clones, so I say they have different final smashes. Clones are all going to have slight variations in their movesets, but still it saddens me a bit.

 

[Flaminglink]

I hate ppl who are pissed at the roseter!!!

This game is gonna Rule!!!!! The Roster is Amazing, We have an AMAZing variety of new unique characters!

Toon link also has smaller weaker bombs! Check at 28 secounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8N1-9T4qks

 

[Japanese Monk]

The roster is kinda underwhelming. At least dealing with triple clones ect. But The game itself is amazing.

The music is just amazing, the stages are amazing, EVERYTHING (cept the roster) is amazing.

Id probably rate the game a 9.8 by the looks.

Woulda got a 10 if there werent clones/lame characters like ROB...

 

[Zoolander]

Yeah, they're all Luigified. I like Falco's Reflector.

 

[Lynkx]

Who cares about Final Smashes? I don't, I'm not gonna use them, and I'm sure many others won't either. They decide the match too quick

 

[Silent_X]

The roster is kinda underwhelming. At least dealing with triple clones ect. But The game itself is amazing.

The music is just amazing, the stages are amazing, EVERYTHING (cept the roster) is amazing.

Id probably rate the game a 9.8 by the looks.

Woulda got a 10 if there werent clones/lame characters like ROB...

How do you know he's a lame character?
i think he's awesome so far. I'm thinking about maining him.

 

[Japanese Monk]

How do you know he's a lame character?
i think he's awesome so far. I'm thinking about maining him.

cause i seen him

 

[veil222]

I've seen him played a bit too, he is a bit lame. I watched wolf being played for a while too, seems fairly clone-ish. Biggest differences are his speed, weight, and power. Other than that, his specials are slightly different. Not enough to be de-cloned though, Ididn't get to see his FS to see if it was any different or not.

 

[Yukichu]

Did Ness even learn PK Starstorm in EB?

 

[Mike87]

They are semi-clones then.

 

[Gnight]

I don't have a problem with "clones" for they are not exactly the same and usually arn't even the same character. I would never expect Gannondorf's moveset to be completely overhauled It's silly that anyone would expect that. In melee he was technically a clone though he differed very much from Captain Falcon. Even the Marios(Mario and Lugi) had more in common than those two. Even if Gannodorf evolved from a clone, he'd still have a little captain in him.

 

[cochiseSMASH]

It makes no sense that Falco/Wolf have the same Final Smashes as Fox. Neither, as far as I know, ever gets into the tank in Star Fox games. Why not give them both their wings instead?

It is actually really annoying to see the same Final Smashes being recycled for clone-like characters. Especially in scenarios where it makes no sense when related back to the original game the characters are from.

 

[SmashBro99]

Luigi has his own FS, while Wolf doesn't.

This proves they were just lazy.

 

[Norm]

it seems to be the Mario/Luigi situation they're all just different enough to not be considered clones.

 

[MirageofMadness]

I would definitely NOT say they were de-cloned-- "Luigified" is a better way to describe it. The clones were never EXACTLY the same, but they are so similar that it seems to be make the roster less diverse than it had potential to, and therefore a hell of a lot less interesting.

Even so, I pray that they do at LEAST what they did for Lucas & Ness (by adding slight differences to their specials, but giving them much different smash attacks), for Ganondorf, Toon, Falco, and Wolf.

And to those who keep calling us "whiners" -- gimme a break, kids. You seriously expect me to be happy that clones are not only BACK, but they now ALSO come in triplicate? Yeah, right!

The least they could've done is switch up the Final Smashes- having two landmasters was already kind of a slap in the face, but three? Is that really necessary? Hell no, IMO.

Of course I'll eventually get over my initial disappointment because I'm still convinced it will be a fun game. Its just that... come ON! What's next? Why not just add Peppy and Slippy and give them Fox's moveset, too?

 

[mezbomber]

clones are clones are clones are clones. if you want to talk about the "luigi-fication" of clones, that's fine. I think Doc is different enough from Mario for me to have a preference. Pichu is different enough from Pikachu for people to have a preference of one over the other. They're all clones.

So, we lost three clones (doc, pichu, roy), and added two (wolf and Ness) I say Ness is the clone because he stole his moves from Lucas in the first place.


above any kind of disappointment over this roster, I feel confusion. Why get rid of Mewtwo? Because Lucario appears to be the popular contemporary. Fine...but why can't he fight alongside his current contemporary like Ness and Lucas, or Marth and Ike. They got newer reps, but kept the old ones, too. Granted Marth is the original...but Ness isn't. Ness is just as important as Lucas as is Ninten. It looks to me like the reason Ness didn't get cut was the same reason Mewtwo got cut.

Next on the confusion list...clones. Why didn't vet clones get new movesets? Why did Falco, Ganon, Luigi, and Y.Link make the cut over Doc, Roy, Pichu? Well, Ganon and Luigi are pretty much household names...but couldn't Falco or Y.Link been replaced if they weren't given original movesets? And above all else....WHY ON EARTH DO WE HAVE A TRIPLE CLONE? Cool...now I can go online and not have to worry about everyone playing Fox, Falco, and Marth only. Instead, everyone will be playing Fox, Falco, WOLF, and Marth only. That last point is quite biased and should not be taken personally, literally, or seriously.

after all the whining is done, the fact of the matter remains that there was little to be done to make us want this game. Most everyone here already knew they were going to buy it and like it three years ago. I feel like I only have myself to blame for being excited enough to share in this boards excitement. We spazzed and nerded and geeked our way to this disappointment. We should not feel any entitlement because of how much we love this game...instead, maybe we should stop taking things like games so **** seriously. F*k it...now I know better than to geek obsessively over a video game with other obsessive-prone geeks. You can have it. I don't want it. I'm going to go play some music.

 

[Adi]

I just hate how they've delayed this game for months and months, and yet they can't even think of an original FS for the Starfox characters. 3 characters using the land master tank is ridiculous.

 

[MirageofMadness]

above any kind of disappointment over this roster, I feel confusion.

I totally know what you mean... I agree with a lot of what you say in your whole post, too. I keep wondering to myself "Where is Sakurai's head? Why would he do ____ when he really could have done ____ and made a lot more sense?"

We spazzed and nerded and geeked our way to this disappointment.

I hate that you're actually so right about this. *sigh*

 

[FuryVII]

Double post thanks to this wonderfully slow site.

 

[Arshen]

We spazzed and nerded and geeked our way to this disappointment..

Greatest Quote Ever.

 

[FuryVII]

It makes no sense that Falco/Wolf have the same Final Smashes as Fox. Neither, as far as I know, ever gets into the tank in Star Fox games. Why not give them both their wings instead?

It is actually really annoying to see the same Final Smashes being recycled for clone-like characters. Especially in scenarios where it makes no sense when related back to the original game the characters are from.

To the quoted above: Would you rather everyone have their own FS or another delay? Well Nintendo looked at that scenario and decided that clone FS are much better than delaying the game again. Or how about they just don't include the characters because the FS are the same? THey want to provide Nintendo FANS with as many characers as possible. They didn't make the game just for you.

To most others:
People are so misguided. Someone tell me, based on previous Star Fox games, why Falco should not be VERY similar to Fox? Also since when do fighting games NOT have clones...

Ryu.. Ken...
Sub-zero, Scorpion, Ermac, Reptile, Smoke, Noob,etc
Kitana, Mileena
SSBM had plenty

Something to consider. Why was Wolf added? Maybe to add a nemesis to SSE for Fox. Most likely. What if you could fight him but not as him? Wouldn't you be *****ing to play as Wolf? Don't think so short sighted.

You guys just want to ***** about something.

 

[blubomber17]

Here's the Wolf video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6uRcUADi8

Form your own opinions; it's kinda hard to tell, but for sure his blastrer is extremely different. He's a lot less like Fox compared to Falco. It's kinda like (actually, the same) as the Mario situation. Fox = Mario, Falco = Doc, Wolf = Luigi.

 

[blubomber17]

Here's the Wolf video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6uRcUADi8

Form your own opinions; it's kinda hard to tell, but for sure his blastrer is extremely different. He's a lot less like Fox compared to Falco. It's kinda like (actually, the same) as the Mario situation. Fox = Mario, Falco = Doc, Wolf = Luigi.

 

[Orsist]

We need more fox clones

 

[BlackKnight76]

That video makes him look a lot different than Fox, I mean, there are similarities, but his Blaster is much different, his Up-B is much different, his smashes look pretty different. Hopefully the other "clones" follow this pattern.

 

[joepinion]

OMG Slippy confirmed!!!

 

[maxpower1227]

I hate to say this, but I'm disappointed in this roster. We don't need 3 Star Fox reps, especially if they're ALL going to have the exact same final smash. We needed more villains (we lost Mewtwo and had him replaced with a "good guy" pokeyman, and we didn't get Ridley or K Rool), and we could have used another Metroid rep. Other than that, I can't complain too much because just about everyone who I wanted to return did.

**** all the fanboys who got Toon Link in the game. Young Link with the masks (with FD Link as his FS) would have been a million times better. CURSE YOU FANBOYS!!! *shakes fist violently*

 

[Zek]

Ness and Lucas ARE NOT CLONES, period. Yes their specials are Luigi-fied(even then, not cloned), but their standard attacks are completely different. They are not clones by any stretch of the imagination. Their shared final smash is unfortunate though.

All of the other characters have actually been decloned, except for Toon Link who still shares all the moves but has some big differences. I don't mind him, as long as they play differently. The rest of them all have new attacks and specials. I don't think I would call them clones anymore. They all seem Luigi-fied, and he wasn't a clone in Melee. I am disappointed that there are two characters derived from Fox though...

As for Falco: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9xKVsegWE What's that attack at 4:56? Looks like a new ability or smash or something to me.

 

[MK-Ultra]

All the real world clones take great offense to this thread.

 

[Gnight]

clones are clones are clones are clones. if you want to talk about the "luigi-fication" of clones, that's fine. I think Doc is different enough from Mario for me to have a preference. Pichu is different enough from Pikachu for people to have a preference of one over the other. They're all clones.

Give Mario a lab coat and steroids and you have Doc, nuff said. Pichu is a *******ized version of Pikachu. It wouldn't be Pichu if it was any other way.

So, we lost three clones (doc, pichu, roy), and added two (wolf and Ness) I say Ness is the clone because he stole his moves from Lucas in the first place.

Lucas is the clone. He stole most of his moves from Ness and he stole them from Paula.

Why get rid of Mewtwo?

In smash, Mewtwo sucked. It was no accident so he's always going to suck in smash. It's not like not like he was a bad character because of the physics of Melee. I like Mewtwo but I rather see him gone than see him *******ized in Brawl.

Next on the confusion list...clones. Why didn't vet clones get new movesets? Why did Falco, Ganon, Luigi, and Y.Link make the cut over Doc, Roy, Pichu? Well, Ganon and Luigi are pretty much household names...but couldn't Falco or Y.Link been replaced if they weren't given original movesets? And above all else....WHY ON EARTH DO WE HAVE A TRIPLE CLONE? Cool...now I can go online and not have to worry about everyone playing Fox, Falco, and Marth only. Instead, everyone will be playing Fox, Falco, WOLF, and Marth only. That last point is quite biased and should not be taken personally, literally, or seriously.

Throwing out Falco wouldn't be like Throwing out Young Link. Falco is a whole another character and Y. Link is just... well, a younger version of Link, so of course Y. Link is going to be a clone.

It's obvious why Doc and Pichu didn't make the cut and Roy will be missed

after all the whining is done, the fact of the matter remains that there was little to be done to make us want this game. Most everyone here already knew they were going to buy it and like it three years ago. I feel like I only have myself to blame for being excited enough to share in this boards excitement. We spazzed and nerded and geeked our way to this disappointment. We should not feel any entitlement because of how much we love this game...instead, maybe we should stop taking things like games so **** seriously. F*k it...now I know better than to geek obsessively over a video game with other obsessive-prone geeks. You can have it. I don't want it. I'm going to go play some music.

All this whining over characters with simular movesets?

We need more fox clones

LOL!

 

[DRaGZ]

I feel that they used the Landmaster for all of the Fox roster because it was just easier to do.

I mean, it's probably no easy feat to think of another FS and then model it and then program it and then tweak it.

Of course, it would have made more sense for Falco to be in a plane (he said a few times in Starfox 64 "I'll take the skies anyday!", so it wouldn't make sense that he's in a tank) and Wolf to just...not be in a tank at all. Star Wolf never had a tank, right?

 

[The Executive]

Wolf does. His is red.

 

[Darkslash]

And Sakurai Acknowledges that Falco hates his Final Smash, his Final Smash line is

"I still prefer the air"

I mean Comon

 

[The Executive]

And Sakurai Acknowledges that Falco hates his Final Smash, his Final Smash line is

"I still prefer the air"

I mean Comon

Yay for developers emphasizing their own failures!

 

[Chepe]

I know, Falco says "Personally, I prefer the air!" in Final Smash echoness!

But see, Im sure that their Final Smashes were conceptualized as something else, but they decided to make it last priority to get other vital parts done first...

 

[The Executive]

I would've preferred ANYTHING to Pit's voiceover. Even random Monty Python clips having NOTHING to do with the game.

down-B: "Have at you!"
Palutena's Army: "ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!"
B: "Coconuts don't migrate!"

 

[pirkid]

I would've preferred ANYTHING to Pit's voiceover. Even random Monty Python clips having NOTHING to do with the game.

down-B: "Have at you!"
Palutena's Army: "ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!"
B: "Coconuts don't migrate!"

That would have made Brawl too epic for the general public.

 

[The Executive]

That would have made Brawl too epic for the general public.

Yes.

On a completely unrelated note, this thread was one I dug up from the back. In fact, it was the absolute last thread in the archives, from 1/31/08. People were still having flame wars over *insert char here*. It's pretty funny that we're actually still discussing this.