The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[AvoiD]

Falco boards discussing Mario matchup.

Input would be appreciated. :]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7919999#post7919999

 

[Matador]

oh goody

10goodies

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I'm so speechless on this matchup, Idc, I'll say 50/50 maybe, both of dem got rapeage combos and juggles.

 

[ThatGuy]

The only attack that you don't have a very clear cut answer to is a random Tornado, which you might be interrupting with fireball camping though anyway. You can F-smash him out of almost anything or U-tilt/U-smash if he's above you.

Untrue. Try angled down Ftilt.

(Credit to Master of Mario for giving me that one in a youtube comment)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Never thought of that, but usually, the problem is when he Tornados, it's usually when you're in some kind of lag, whether it's wifi lag, or the lag of some other random attack lol.

If that works...D-tilt must be able to do the same thing. =P

 

[ThatGuy]

Never thought of that, but usually, the problem is when he Tornados, it's usually when you're in some kind of lag, whether it's wifi lag, or the lag of some other random attack lol.

If that works...D-tilt must be able to do the same thing. =P

Dtilt might work, especially with Luigi's aerial slowness in general to prevent a follow-up; but you'd have to test that. I don't know the specific priority on Dtilt. Keep in mind that Dash Attack ties with his tornado, so it might not work as you expect it to.

If you're being caught by that move while in lag, then that's definately something you need to work on. That's like saying MK tornado is unstoppable because he can do it point blank and you won't have time to react accordingly. You have to bait it and set yourself up specifically to punish the tornado you know is coming.

Smack him a bunch of times out of it and he'll stop.

 

[Inferno3044]

I'm aware of self cape ****..You can even do it on pikachu when he uses thunder....You can also do it on any character on norfair and brinstar due to the lava/acid...

How do you self cape **** Pika?

Btw its 50:50.

 

[Famous]

Cape his thunder, then cape pika when he gets hit by it...

 

[Matt07]

I only managed to do that once, he died at 40% too, I was like wtf? But now I know how it happened.

 

[Inferno3044]

I don't think there's any more needed to be talked about. 50:50. also, I don't think we ever agreed on a MU ratio vs. Bowser. Mine is 60:40 Mario for that. I would like to discuss Sonic next. There are a couple here and I'm gonna have to face him eventually.

 

[condemned_soul]

i want to talk about fox and sonic since that is the majority of the characters that people play besides snake. This will be a good topic for me

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

i want to talk about fox and sonic since that is the majority of the characters that people play besides snake. This will be a good topic for me

Do I have permission to lmao? I mean, you live in Michigan. There's Lain, Anther, Judge, SamuraiPanda, Ally (at the moment). There's not a single good sonic or fox main in all of Michigan that goes to any OoS tourneys.

 

[condemned_soul]

Do I have permission to lmao? I mean, you live in Michigan. There's Lain, Anther, Judge, SamuraiPanda, Ally (at the moment). There's not a single good sonic or fox main in all of Michigan that goes to any OoS tourneys.

permission granted you only know the who travel out of state. there are other good players In Michigan beside the "known" people. So my motives will still be the same. ill agree that there aren't any good sonic player but as for fox. you would be surprise. They aren't the best but they are pretty epic

 

[lain]

What no one plays fox or sonic in MI.

 

[Inferno3044]

What no one plays fox or sonic in MI.

I believe him.

On the other side, NJ has some Sonic mains and I would like to know the MU before I gotta face them.

 

[Xyro77]

Guys, the day has come!!!!!!!! The FINAL metaknight vote is underway in the SBR and in a gernal brawl Disc board. This is your chance to eliminate metaknight ONCE AND FOR ALL. As a fellow low tier i think we understand metaknight needs to go. So please join the PRO-BAN side and vote metaknight out of this game.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903






PS: this would eliminate a impossible match-up. lol

 

[hippiedude92]

I am in the pro ban side because papa xyro says so.

Amazing.

 

[Veggi]

MK is an impossible matchup for Mario or Samus? It's not horrible for Mario, it's just...bad.

 

[Famous]

It's not an impossible matchup...MK getting banned will just make it easier...I already voted, I don't really care which side wins

 

[Veggi]

Personally, I think Snake, Dedede, and Marth are harder than MK. MK gone means more of them.

The rest of the Mario board probably has different opinions than I do though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'll be blatantly honest....I voted yes only for the lulz. Not because of any matchup knowledge or agreement with sides whatsoever. I thought that interesting things would happen if the ban did actually succeed. And I'm up for some entertainment from this community.

The real solution is there needs to be more low tier events...so that everyone gets to be happy.

 

[UberMario]

For Luigi: I think this match is 60:40 in Mario's favor. Except for his Fsmash and Sweet-spotted UpB, there really isn't anything truly scary about him. FLUDD is super-effective against his UpB and Mario's smashes are quite useful here. Just be careful if the Luigi knows how to use his UpB right, but as long as you make sure he doesn't get the chance to sweet-spot it, you really have nothing to worry here.


BTW, Why is Mario vs. Falco in Falco's favor? FLUDD causes both of Falco's recoveries to stop in their tracks, and caped lasers go right through normal ones. Chain-grabbing can't be the only reason, can it?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco vs Mario is basically an even matchup, except that Falco is better at maintaining the lead when he gets it.

Really, the person who gets the first KO wins that matchup anyway though. It's a HUGELY momentum based matchup. Both characters struggle to get the KO, but are really good at racking damage.

Also, Caping Lasers isn't always the best solution. I usually duck under lasers (which Mario can do, as long as you don't crouch for extended periods of time due to there being an animation that raises Mario's hurtbox).

Pierce thinks the matchup is in Mario's favor on Brinstar (which I have no experience on). I do know that the matchup is also in Mario's favor on Yoshis (which has messed up terrain that allows you to duck under lasers, do more aerial tricks, not to mention the stage size is very disadvantageous for his recovery).

 

[UberMario]

Falco vs Mario is basically an even matchup, except that Falco is better at maintaining the lead when he gets it.

Really, the person who gets the first KO wins that matchup anyway though. It's a HUGELY momentum based matchup. Both characters struggle to get the KO, but are really good at racking damage.

Also, Caping Lasers isn't always the best solution.

That's what I thought, and also I didn't say that caping lasers was the best solution, but it's interesting that they (the lasers) don't cancel each other out.

 

[Inferno3044]

For Luigi: I think this match is 60:40 in Mario's favor. Except for his Fsmash and Sweet-spotted UpB, there really isn't anything truly scary about him. FLUDD is super-effective against his UpB and Mario's smashes are quite useful here. Just be careful if the Luigi knows how to use his UpB right, but as long as you make sure he doesn't get the chance to sweet-spot it, you really have nothing to worry here.

It is definitely not 60:40 Mario. Luigi is overall stronger and able to kill at lower percentages. As somebody who's alternate is Luigi to help some bad MU's, Luigi is a threat, though underrated as one. To stop getting gimped, he can DI upwards can use his tornado to recover high enough so that Mario cant gimp him. Of course that won't always work. Neither of them have something big on each other.

BTW, Why is Mario vs. Falco in Falco's favor? FLUDD causes both of Falco's recoveries to stop in their tracks, and caped lasers go right through normal ones. Chain-grabbing can't be the only reason, can it?[/QUOTE]

The MU is even. On a large or flat stage like FD or Japes, it's probably Falco's advantage. If its something where you can easily avoid lasers like Yoshi's or Brinstar, it's Mario's advantage. Besides that, its gonna be even. I don't know why it's written as 55:45 Falco debatable for 60:40.

EDIT: Next up should be Sonic. I've got a Sonic guy in my place and I wanna be prepared before I gotta face him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sonic has the gayest playstyle ever. His entire strategy is run away from you and punish.

That being said, fireball camping is good. They come out pretty fast, and stop him from running around with impunity. D-air is also good since it's hard for him to react to and good for punishing his lag. N-air is also awesome for its priority. The main thing in this matchup is as long as you are shielding, he can't do anything that can kill you. He has to trick you or punish something laggy to land a KO move.

Don't play this matchup on FD just because it's completely gay and unfun. Do quick spacing tricks as safely as you can, know his mindgames like shield canceling spindash, spring canceled D-air tricks, his stutter step F-smash (which is inferior to yours, but still there), Jab in close range to interrupt anything he does, in general just play fast and safe and you should win.

 

[Matador]

Lmao, somebody must've Bokurolled you A2. This fight's always rather exciting for me. You just can't let them run around.

Best tools vs Sonic are Ftilt, fireball, and SHNair. All 3 are good at keeping his spindash at bay; fireball stops it and Ftilt/Nair plow right through. This particular insanely iconic pairing is pretty even in the sense that neither party can play the way they normally would vs the other. Mario can thoroughly keep Sonic's approaches predictable with fireballs/Nairs/Ftilts, and they rack up damage at generally the same speed. We also kill a fair bit earlier with Fsmash and Usmash. Keep your Usmash fresh. I cannot stress this enough. Having a fresh Usmash is like having a full bucket for oil panic in this matchup. Usmash eats right though most of Sonic's attacks and is about as fast. It'll also be killing around 130-140%.

On the other white-gloved five-fingered hand, we have Sonic who will rarely be gimped but will actually be the gimp artist in this matchup because of his insane recovery. Spring will usually be a successful gimp if your second jump is gone, but if you conserve your recovery options, it shouldn't be too big a deal. Another thing to mention, when Mario Fsmashes, the shieldstun and moderately low cooldown is typically sufficient enough to avoid any staggering damage in most cases. Sonic is an exception, meaning Sonic can punish pretty much anything with a grab, which can also mean a free 20% for him. Therefore, only Fsmash when you're sure. Also remember than good Sonic players will have you walking right into their Fsmashes with their haXX0rZ mindgames...so learn to read their intentions.

Finally, cape isn't AS effective in this matchup as most others because of how slow it is and how ineffective it is for gimping Sonic (teardrop). However, if you catch a Sonic offstage without his doublejump using his sideB, for God's sake cape him. It's a free KO. He's moving extremely slow and is begging for the cape. By all means, oblige his wavering stock's final request. Cape the **** out of him.

Edit: Also, their best stage is Yoshi's. FD is good for them too, but they can do some ******** **** on Yoshis. Ban that if you don't feel comfortable playing that stage. I swear I didn't mean to type this much.

 

[hippiedude92]

All Sonics do is bait. Just stand there, and let them come to you, don't even bother fireballing imo.

The moment they come to you, throw out a shnair it outprioritizes everythign they have.

oh don't let them get stock or % lead, they intend to run out the clock trust me lol.

 

[Inferno3044]

You have to play this with a cool mind. Use everything you can to ease whatever pressure and momentum he will try and use against you. Things like FLUDD, SHnair, fireballs, anything that can work. His attacks have low priority so most attacks should go through. Everyone else said what I think. Don't attempt gimps. Just kill him the old fashion way.

Honestly, I think its even now. Maybe a bit in Mario's advantage.

 

[Camalange]

Welp. I'm not in the mood to discuss this or correct things right now, lol >_>

But just wanted to say I played Boss in tournament and beat his Mario...I feel its 50:50, maybe 55:45 Mario.

I'll put more later, but I'd be willing to discuss more if Boss participates in this thread. Considering he has played other Sonics besides myself. I believe his Mario also lost to ShadoFiend...I'm uncertain about Malcolm though.

His Luigi beat Shado and I both though xD gg

oh snap, page 93. I like it.

 

[Kinzer]

Good luck with that Camal, Boss quit playing Barlw.

 

[vato_break]

hey kinzer we need to play sometime.

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonics best approach is DDDs best approach

shield.

you cant out prioritise it.

you cant out range it

very few sonics are good enough to do it, but the smart one will go melee on you, and shield an attack, and than either shield grab or hit with an aerial out of shield

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's Fireballs/D-air say "hi".

D-air keep in mind is safe on block. Links to either a N-air or U-air before he lands, which is also pretty safe on block.

 

[Kinzer]

hey kinzer we need to play sometime.

We need to, but I don't know when or how we will arrange that.

 

[Famous]

For Luigi: I think this match is 60:40 in Mario's favor. Except for his Fsmash and Sweet-spotted UpB, there really isn't anything truly scary about him. FLUDD is super-effective against his UpB and Mario's smashes are quite useful here. Just be careful if the Luigi knows how to use his UpB right, but as long as you make sure he doesn't get the chance to sweet-spot it, you really have nothing to worry here.


BTW, Why is Mario vs. Falco in Falco's favor? FLUDD causes both of Falco's recoveries to stop in their tracks, and caped lasers go right through normal ones. Chain-grabbing can't be the only reason, can it?

At best Mario Vs Luigi is 50/50...If both players are on the ball...At worst it would be 55/45 Luigi's favor

Once you force sonic in a corner it's done until you give him more room to run around again...

SHNair kills everything...I really don't use fireballs on small stages against him since he basically has few places to run...A strategic rush down will take his stocks off

 

[Browny]

The main thing in this matchup is as long as you are shielding, he can't do anything that can kill you.

I like this...

So therefore, no character except Ness, squirtle, charizard, olimar and maybe lucas are going to be KO'ing you if you shield camp lol?

Unlike majority of characters, Sonics throws happen to put the enemy in very unfavourable positions. a d/bthrow at the edge is going to limit your options a lot and uthrow becomes a game of chance whether the sonic player reads or predicts an airdodge to KO from it. Not too many characters have multiple throws (that dont KO) which put the enemy in a variety of comprimising positions. His throws may not outright KO you but they dont give you many choices in how you want to recover from them, lest you get KO'd from the follow up aerial

 

[Kinzer]

Actually, how about this.

Are any of you familiar with JWN3D? He's a Mario from Vegas... pretty good... good enough to get on the Vegassmash PR... granted with T.Link as a back-up, but regardless he can get it done...

Still doesn't ring any bells...? I don't want to continue on with my idea if none of you haven't even heard of the guy, but it's understandable, Vegas is like in the middle of nowhere for WC, and anything further than that is just "lol wtf that's uncharted?"

 

[:mad:]

Well ****. People are actually getting back into this. I guess I need to update.

 

[Matt07]

Lmao get on that! .

@Kinzer, yep, I've heard of JWNED on All is Brawl. Never seen/knew he played Mario though.

*Goes to look at his Mario on YouTube*