ItsRainingGravy
Smash Ace
Like 'em or hate 'em, custom moves are a widely discussed topic within the Smash 4 community as of right now. While the majority of people seem to like customs, others feels as though they are a deterrent to the Smash 4 metagame as a whole. Be that from logistics issues, a preference for the standard movesets, or a true distaste for a few particular custom moves. Others, on the other hand, love custom moves for the fact that they add competitive viability to the characters, giving them a chance against the game's supposed top tiers by offering them new options that help them patch up old weaknesses. So with such a large divide in opinions, who is ultimately right?
Both, and neither actually. There is no true answer, simply because everyone has their own preferences and personal tastes. However, regardless of if you are for or against customs: No one can argue that any two customs are equal. Much like how no one can truthfully argue that any two characters are equal, unless they are complete clones of eachother. Some custom moves shake up the meta game far more than others, while others are either very niche or yield very little to no benefits for the character in a custom's metagame at all.
Much like in any game, raw statistical data usually determines what the best characters are. And this also applies to customs as well. Some are more "fair" than others. Some are more "broken" than others. Others are just plain "bad". And regardless of if you are for, or against customs; this is a fact. And people should understand this. For example, let's say that a friend gave you a box of apples. A few of the apples are rotten, but the others look completely fresh and healthy. Do you throw out the whole box because a few of them are rotten? Or do you eat them all because some of them are fresh? The intelligent answer is neither. Just because a few of the apples are rotten, doesn't mean that they all are. Why waste perfectly good apples just because a few of them are bad? Additionally, why force yourself to eat something unhealthy for you just because some of the apples were healthy, or your friend gave them to you? Moderation is a necessity both in, and for life.
Anyways, enough with the philosophies. Let's move on to the core reasons behind the creation of this topic.
One of the main things people have on their minds in regards to custom moves in a competitive environment is, you guessed it, about the custom moves that are considered "broken". Unfair, polarizing, etc. Call it what you want to. But they are the moves that people love to hate, or criticize. We have been seeing these moves discussed on Youtube, Twitch, FaceBook, Reddit, and here on Smashboards. You can even notice it within the Character Competitive Impressions topic, as well. Since the introduction of custom moves, literally pages of discussion is now devoted to "This Custom move is/isn't broken due to reasons", at the cost of matchup discussions actually taking place. And honestly, I feel as though these kind of discussions have been taken to a level where they are very degenerative to what should be the core discussion for that particular topic, which should be the characters and their matchups. Yes, custom moves are indeed a part of that character and should definitely be taken into consideration, but not to the point where you talk about the moves in question more than the character itself.
And this type of topic sidetracking comes from both sides. Both people who support, and are against customs. In particular, large discussions as to why a certain custom move is/isn't banned. And why said move should/shouldn't be banned. And this kind of discussion isn't really all that bad, in my opinion. But it isn't handled very effectively, and this type of discussion is being done in the wrong place (specifically the Character Competitive Impressions topic). On top of that, there are such a wide array of opinions that it becomes hard to separate fact from fiction in regards to the custom moves. This causes an even larger spread of misinformation, and such misinformation is detrimental for the Smash 4 scene as a whole. At least in my eyes, anyways. This will probably leave a bigger dent on the Custom Moves scene, but it could go even as far as hurting the entirety of the Smash 4 scene if it gets bad enough. And as a community, we should do our best to avoid this. We don't want people to think the only thing we talk about is why a particular move isn't banned. Because if that were the case, it would become pretty annoying after awhile.
And I am pretty sure that most of you can agree with me on that last statement, and had that kind of feeling on the opposition's side in regards to Custom Moves. Whether you are for, or against custom moves. Because you see this kind of opposition almost everywhere. The debates on custom moves have become an absolute mess, filled with misinformation on both sides. Don't you think that would make some people hate the Smash 4 community as a whole because of this? If things continue to go on as they are, I don't see either side winning this argument. Because in reality, we all lose. Discussions and arguments like this can make other people feel as though our opinions are childish and immature, on either side. For BOTH sides. And that is something that I wish the community would work together towards avoiding, regardless of what side you are on.
That is why I have decided to make this topic. Something that we, as a community, can work together on in regards to improving Smash 4's image as a whole. Mainly in regards for customs, but also for the entirety of Smash 4 itself. This topic aims to pool the aforementioned discussions and debates on "broken" custom moves, and compile every bit of possible information in regards to these particular custom moves and how they affect the metagame all in one topic. Basically, if people want to talk about "broken" custom moves? This is the topic I wish people would do it in, rather than congesting this information in other topics which divert and deter the core reasons for those topics (such as the Character Competitive Impressions topic). My hopes for the creation of this topic, is that it makes other topics seem "cleaner", because the information on "broken" custom moves will be discussed here instead.
Do take note of the title, however.
THE GOAL OF THIS TOPIC IS NOT TO SERVE AS A BAN LIST. RATHER, THIS TOPIC IS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT CUSTOM MOVES TO WATCH OUT FOR, AND WHAT CUSTOM MOVES AFFECT THE COMPETITIVE METAGAME THE MOST.
With that said, here are the rules of this topic:
1. Do NOT flame other people. This should go without saying, but just because someone has a different opinion from yours, does NOT mean you have the right to attack them or their opinions. Treat other people with respect in this, and other topics. Please, and thank you.
2. Below this post will be the suspect list, which will categorize Custom Moves with a "Severe", "High", "Mid", "Low", or "Not a Threat" ranking. These rankings determine how much of a threat these potential custom moves pose on the metagame. Based upon the opinions and information by the posters within this topic.
3. To determine the ranking on a potential custom move, people must "vote" on how the custom move affects the metagame as a whole. HOWEVER, there are a couple of catches to this. First off, you cannot choose "Severe" or "Not a Threat" as your vote. Voters can only choose "High", "Mid", or "Low" when posting their vote on a particular custom move. "Severe" and "Not a Threat" are only applicable to custom moves which have gained a super-majority of votes in regards to being either listed as "High" or "Low" to represent their level of threat upon the metagame. For these specific rankings, I don't intend to use them unless absolutely necessary. So the initial list will only have "High", "Mid", and "Low" on it unless there is enough reason to add either of these additional two categories.
4. Secondly: In order for your vote to be counted, you MUST provide information in regards to the weaknesses/strengths of the custom move you are voting on. Failure to do this will result in your vote not being counted. The purpose of this topic is to provide people with factual information. If you do not post your explanation as to why you feel as though a particular custom move is/isn't broken, then you are only aiding towards misinformation about custom moves in general, and thus become part of the problem which this topic aims to contest.
5. Your goal in this topic should focus on the particular custom move(s) you wish to vote on, NOT your opinions on custom moves as a whole. Please try to avoid derailing the goals of this topic, which is meant for providing people with information in regards to what custom moves people should look out for the most, and how those PARTICULAR moves affect the competitive metagame.
6. I will provide an initial list of custom moves which will make up the "Suspect List". You may discuss any of the moves on this list. However, to try to keep this topic as organized as possible, try to only discuss moves that are on the Suspect List itself. If you feel as though a particular custom move has enough reason to be added to the "Suspect List", post your reasons as to why it should be added to the list (you can also include your vote on this move). If I feel as though there is enough warranted reason to add this particular move to the list, or if there are enough people that wish to add it to the list, I will do so. But for the most part, you can talk about any custom move you like, and there isn't going to be a heavy restriction on this. Basically, this is just me saying to remember to be sensible with your posts more than anything else. As I don't want this topic to go over ALL custom moves (like Spinphony for example). Just the ones that could be considered a competitive threat. Thank you in advance.
7. You can change your vote at any time, but please provide reasons for your change in vote/opinion.
8. More rules may be added over time, if necessary. And if anyone is confused about this topic, I will do the best I can to try to explain it more efficiently. I'm a weird individual and my thoughts and opinions are constantly changing. So, uh, sorry about that. lol. I promise to do the best I can to treat everyone fairly, and listen to what people are saying. Just as long as others do the same for me, as well.
Aaaand, that's pretty much it really. Though on one final note: Try to discuss BOTH the strengths AND weaknesses of a particular custom move that you are voting on. Even if a custom move's weaknesses seem small, add them. This helps weed out bias, and provide more information on the moves in particular, which helps combat misinformation about the move and give people more clarity in regards to their opinions on the move in question. Don't try to purposefully ignore a certain strength or weakness to help make your claim/vote/opinion look better. Just relax, and calmly explain your thoughts on the custom moves you wish to talk about in a professional manner. If everyone were to do this, it would help the community as a whole. Regardless if you are for, or against, custom moves.
With all of that out of the way, you may begin.
Both, and neither actually. There is no true answer, simply because everyone has their own preferences and personal tastes. However, regardless of if you are for or against customs: No one can argue that any two customs are equal. Much like how no one can truthfully argue that any two characters are equal, unless they are complete clones of eachother. Some custom moves shake up the meta game far more than others, while others are either very niche or yield very little to no benefits for the character in a custom's metagame at all.
Much like in any game, raw statistical data usually determines what the best characters are. And this also applies to customs as well. Some are more "fair" than others. Some are more "broken" than others. Others are just plain "bad". And regardless of if you are for, or against customs; this is a fact. And people should understand this. For example, let's say that a friend gave you a box of apples. A few of the apples are rotten, but the others look completely fresh and healthy. Do you throw out the whole box because a few of them are rotten? Or do you eat them all because some of them are fresh? The intelligent answer is neither. Just because a few of the apples are rotten, doesn't mean that they all are. Why waste perfectly good apples just because a few of them are bad? Additionally, why force yourself to eat something unhealthy for you just because some of the apples were healthy, or your friend gave them to you? Moderation is a necessity both in, and for life.
Anyways, enough with the philosophies. Let's move on to the core reasons behind the creation of this topic.
One of the main things people have on their minds in regards to custom moves in a competitive environment is, you guessed it, about the custom moves that are considered "broken". Unfair, polarizing, etc. Call it what you want to. But they are the moves that people love to hate, or criticize. We have been seeing these moves discussed on Youtube, Twitch, FaceBook, Reddit, and here on Smashboards. You can even notice it within the Character Competitive Impressions topic, as well. Since the introduction of custom moves, literally pages of discussion is now devoted to "This Custom move is/isn't broken due to reasons", at the cost of matchup discussions actually taking place. And honestly, I feel as though these kind of discussions have been taken to a level where they are very degenerative to what should be the core discussion for that particular topic, which should be the characters and their matchups. Yes, custom moves are indeed a part of that character and should definitely be taken into consideration, but not to the point where you talk about the moves in question more than the character itself.
And this type of topic sidetracking comes from both sides. Both people who support, and are against customs. In particular, large discussions as to why a certain custom move is/isn't banned. And why said move should/shouldn't be banned. And this kind of discussion isn't really all that bad, in my opinion. But it isn't handled very effectively, and this type of discussion is being done in the wrong place (specifically the Character Competitive Impressions topic). On top of that, there are such a wide array of opinions that it becomes hard to separate fact from fiction in regards to the custom moves. This causes an even larger spread of misinformation, and such misinformation is detrimental for the Smash 4 scene as a whole. At least in my eyes, anyways. This will probably leave a bigger dent on the Custom Moves scene, but it could go even as far as hurting the entirety of the Smash 4 scene if it gets bad enough. And as a community, we should do our best to avoid this. We don't want people to think the only thing we talk about is why a particular move isn't banned. Because if that were the case, it would become pretty annoying after awhile.
And I am pretty sure that most of you can agree with me on that last statement, and had that kind of feeling on the opposition's side in regards to Custom Moves. Whether you are for, or against custom moves. Because you see this kind of opposition almost everywhere. The debates on custom moves have become an absolute mess, filled with misinformation on both sides. Don't you think that would make some people hate the Smash 4 community as a whole because of this? If things continue to go on as they are, I don't see either side winning this argument. Because in reality, we all lose. Discussions and arguments like this can make other people feel as though our opinions are childish and immature, on either side. For BOTH sides. And that is something that I wish the community would work together towards avoiding, regardless of what side you are on.
That is why I have decided to make this topic. Something that we, as a community, can work together on in regards to improving Smash 4's image as a whole. Mainly in regards for customs, but also for the entirety of Smash 4 itself. This topic aims to pool the aforementioned discussions and debates on "broken" custom moves, and compile every bit of possible information in regards to these particular custom moves and how they affect the metagame all in one topic. Basically, if people want to talk about "broken" custom moves? This is the topic I wish people would do it in, rather than congesting this information in other topics which divert and deter the core reasons for those topics (such as the Character Competitive Impressions topic). My hopes for the creation of this topic, is that it makes other topics seem "cleaner", because the information on "broken" custom moves will be discussed here instead.
Do take note of the title, however.
THE GOAL OF THIS TOPIC IS NOT TO SERVE AS A BAN LIST. RATHER, THIS TOPIC IS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT CUSTOM MOVES TO WATCH OUT FOR, AND WHAT CUSTOM MOVES AFFECT THE COMPETITIVE METAGAME THE MOST.
With that said, here are the rules of this topic:
1. Do NOT flame other people. This should go without saying, but just because someone has a different opinion from yours, does NOT mean you have the right to attack them or their opinions. Treat other people with respect in this, and other topics. Please, and thank you.
2. Below this post will be the suspect list, which will categorize Custom Moves with a "Severe", "High", "Mid", "Low", or "Not a Threat" ranking. These rankings determine how much of a threat these potential custom moves pose on the metagame. Based upon the opinions and information by the posters within this topic.
3. To determine the ranking on a potential custom move, people must "vote" on how the custom move affects the metagame as a whole. HOWEVER, there are a couple of catches to this. First off, you cannot choose "Severe" or "Not a Threat" as your vote. Voters can only choose "High", "Mid", or "Low" when posting their vote on a particular custom move. "Severe" and "Not a Threat" are only applicable to custom moves which have gained a super-majority of votes in regards to being either listed as "High" or "Low" to represent their level of threat upon the metagame. For these specific rankings, I don't intend to use them unless absolutely necessary. So the initial list will only have "High", "Mid", and "Low" on it unless there is enough reason to add either of these additional two categories.
4. Secondly: In order for your vote to be counted, you MUST provide information in regards to the weaknesses/strengths of the custom move you are voting on. Failure to do this will result in your vote not being counted. The purpose of this topic is to provide people with factual information. If you do not post your explanation as to why you feel as though a particular custom move is/isn't broken, then you are only aiding towards misinformation about custom moves in general, and thus become part of the problem which this topic aims to contest.
5. Your goal in this topic should focus on the particular custom move(s) you wish to vote on, NOT your opinions on custom moves as a whole. Please try to avoid derailing the goals of this topic, which is meant for providing people with information in regards to what custom moves people should look out for the most, and how those PARTICULAR moves affect the competitive metagame.
6. I will provide an initial list of custom moves which will make up the "Suspect List". You may discuss any of the moves on this list. However, to try to keep this topic as organized as possible, try to only discuss moves that are on the Suspect List itself. If you feel as though a particular custom move has enough reason to be added to the "Suspect List", post your reasons as to why it should be added to the list (you can also include your vote on this move). If I feel as though there is enough warranted reason to add this particular move to the list, or if there are enough people that wish to add it to the list, I will do so. But for the most part, you can talk about any custom move you like, and there isn't going to be a heavy restriction on this. Basically, this is just me saying to remember to be sensible with your posts more than anything else. As I don't want this topic to go over ALL custom moves (like Spinphony for example). Just the ones that could be considered a competitive threat. Thank you in advance.
7. You can change your vote at any time, but please provide reasons for your change in vote/opinion.
8. More rules may be added over time, if necessary. And if anyone is confused about this topic, I will do the best I can to try to explain it more efficiently. I'm a weird individual and my thoughts and opinions are constantly changing. So, uh, sorry about that. lol. I promise to do the best I can to treat everyone fairly, and listen to what people are saying. Just as long as others do the same for me, as well.
Aaaand, that's pretty much it really. Though on one final note: Try to discuss BOTH the strengths AND weaknesses of a particular custom move that you are voting on. Even if a custom move's weaknesses seem small, add them. This helps weed out bias, and provide more information on the moves in particular, which helps combat misinformation about the move and give people more clarity in regards to their opinions on the move in question. Don't try to purposefully ignore a certain strength or weakness to help make your claim/vote/opinion look better. Just relax, and calmly explain your thoughts on the custom moves you wish to talk about in a professional manner. If everyone were to do this, it would help the community as a whole. Regardless if you are for, or against, custom moves.
With all of that out of the way, you may begin.
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